New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

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CaptainHook

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New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostMon Nov 09, 2020 11:15 pm

A completely new Video mode for Gen 5 has been added to Blackmagic RAW and is available early in Resolve 17.

This now uses Rec.709 primaries with a far more useable gamma curve with lots of highlight roll off (6 stops over middle grey with another 3 stops in specular highlights) - this should be a good option for those wanting a more "accurate" starting point that still has a pleasing gamma curve. To accomodate this rolloff middle grey is shifted very slightly down from the standard 40.9% for Rec.709 to 40.34%.

The starting point for Ext Vid Gen 5 has also been slightly tweaked but is still based on Blackmagic Wide Gamut with contrast and saturation applied, and can be customized as always using the gamma controls in the RAW panel. The most notable (existing) differences to the new video mode come from the magenta/green axis having less saturation (more typical of print film etc), and even more highlight rolloff than the new video mode which causes highlights to desaturate more (a flatter gamma curve results in less saturation).

Both options should be very useable starting points depending on your scene and intention. Gen 4 Video is basically the standard Rec.709 gamma with only ~2.5 stops over middle grey so was more intended for matching to Broadcast cameras using Rec.709 gamma, but for those workflows Rec.709 gamma/colourspace is already available in the Blackmagic RAW panel or you can switch back to Gen 4 if desired.
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Note Suwanchote

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Re: New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostMon Nov 09, 2020 11:36 pm

I've been using the new modes and they're both amazing (for my use) compared to the previous versions. A very, very noticeable difference. They will be a great starting point across the board for a lot of people.
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timbutt2

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Re: New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostTue Nov 10, 2020 12:00 am

Can’t wait to test this. Just downloaded earlier, but had to run out to do a practice session with a new AC I’m training.


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tclark513

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Re: New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostTue Nov 10, 2020 2:03 pm

CaptainHook wrote:A completely new Video mode for Gen 5 has been added to Blackmagic RAW and is available early in Resolve 17.

This now uses Rec.709 primaries with a far more useable gamma curve with lots of highlight roll off (6 stops over middle grey with another 3 stops in specular highlights) - this should be a good option for those wanting a more "accurate" starting point that still has a pleasing gamma curve. To accomodate this rolloff middle grey is shifted very slightly down from the standard 40.9% for Rec.709 to 40.34%.

The starting point for Ext Vid Gen 5 has also been slightly tweaked but is still based on Blackmagic Wide Gamut with contrast and saturation applied, and can be customized as always using the gamma controls in the RAW panel. The most notable (existing) differences to the new video mode come from the magenta/green axis having less saturation (more typical of print film etc), and even more highlight rolloff than the new video mode which causes highlights to desaturate more (a flatter gamma curve results in less saturation).

Both options should be very useable starting points depending on your scene and intention. Gen 4 Video is basically the standard Rec.709 gamma with only ~2.5 stops over middle grey so was more intended for matching to Broadcast cameras using Rec.709 gamma, but for those workflows Rec.709 gamma/colourspace is already available in the Blackmagic RAW panel or you can switch back to Gen 4 if desired.


Will Gen 5 come to the BMPCC 6K internally?
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Akpe Ododoru

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Re: New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostTue Nov 10, 2020 3:58 pm

tclark513 wrote:
CaptainHook wrote:A completely new Video mode for Gen 5 has been added to Blackmagic RAW and is available early in Resolve 17.

This now uses Rec.709 primaries with a far more useable gamma curve with lots of highlight roll off (6 stops over middle grey with another 3 stops in specular highlights) - this should be a good option for those wanting a more "accurate" starting point that still has a pleasing gamma curve. To accomodate this rolloff middle grey is shifted very slightly down from the standard 40.9% for Rec.709 to 40.34%.

The starting point for Ext Vid Gen 5 has also been slightly tweaked but is still based on Blackmagic Wide Gamut with contrast and saturation applied, and can be customized as always using the gamma controls in the RAW panel. The most notable (existing) differences to the new video mode come from the magenta/green axis having less saturation (more typical of print film etc), and even more highlight rolloff than the new video mode which causes highlights to desaturate more (a flatter gamma curve results in less saturation).

Both options should be very useable starting points depending on your scene and intention. Gen 4 Video is basically the standard Rec.709 gamma with only ~2.5 stops over middle grey so was more intended for matching to Broadcast cameras using Rec.709 gamma, but for those workflows Rec.709 gamma/colourspace is already available in the Blackmagic RAW panel or you can switch back to Gen 4 if desired.


Will Gen 5 come to the BMPCC 6K internally?

It doesn't have to be added to the camera, you just need to select Gen4 or Gen 5 in davinci and you extra benefits it gives (worked with my pocket 6k)
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robert Hart

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Re: New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostWed Nov 11, 2020 7:43 am

Will Resolve 17 work on a system which can handle Resolve 16? I don't want to install it and then have the computer go "kuuuhhh" and die badly.
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Francisco Bartolomé

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Re: New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostWed Nov 11, 2020 3:42 pm

Dear CaptainHook. First of all I want to congratulate you on the release of Resolve 17 which has been an extraordinary job.

You spoke at the beginning of "Ext Vid Gen 5" in "Blackmagic Wide Gamut", but I can't find the options to select to do this.

Can you write in detail the options to be set in the project settings and in RAW settings?
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James Harkness

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Re: New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostWed Nov 11, 2020 11:34 pm

I usually work in ACES with Rec709 output with my Pocket 6K. I am interested in testing out the new Davinci YRGB Colour Management. I have just set my timeline to that colour management with Davinci Wide Gamut. When I switch Colour Science from Gen 4 to Gen 5 it doesn't effect the image at all. I understand I probably don't understand whats going on as I am a shooter and editor first, then colour corrector but far from a pro whatsoever. Some more in depth information on this would be greatly appreciated.
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Dmitry Shijan

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Re: New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostThu Nov 12, 2020 12:56 am

I guess it is not fully finished yet in 17 beta1.
I see there is a new Davinci Wide Gamut and Davinci Intermediate log gamma for "YRGB" and "YRGB Color managed" project settings. And some tools in CST node.
But seems in those places there is no magic single click "Gamut Compression" trigger similar to BRAW Gen 5 settings.
Seems there are a lot of new things we need to understand deeper...
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CaptainHook

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Re: New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostThu Nov 12, 2020 1:36 am

Gen 5 has not been added to RCM or CST yet (the info has been sent to the Resolve team though).

Davinci Wide Gamut and Davinci Intermediate are different and are part of Resolve's RCM v2.

If using RCM or ACES the purpose is to 'normalise' or essentially bypass the 'colour science' of any camera so you shouldn't see a difference with Gen 4/5. It's only relevant when manually handling colour in a non colour managed workflow (which is the default in Resolve), or if using non-RAW clips in a managed workflow like RCM or ACES etc.
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James Harkness

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Re: New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostThu Nov 12, 2020 1:56 am

CaptainHook wrote:Gen 5 has not been added to RCM or CST yet (the info has been sent to the Resolve team though).

Davinci Wide Gamut and Davinci Intermediate are different and are part of Resolve's RCM v2.

If using RCM or ACES the purpose is to 'normalise' or essentially bypass the 'colour science' of any camera so you shouldn't see a difference with Gen 4/5. It's only relevant when manually handling colour in a non colour managed workflow (which is the default in Resolve), or if using non-RAW clips in a managed workflow like RCM or ACES etc.



Thanks Captain. Seems I'll never see the advantages of Gen 5 haha. You've helped me with something similar to this question about ACES in DR16.

Davinci Wide Gamut looks quite similar to ACES without the problem of the neon highlights is what I am seeing in a project I am working on right now. Whats the main differences between ACES and Davinci Wide Gamut? They are both inside of a Rec709 output which I find the cleanest output for my internet deliverables. Any advice?
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CaptainHook

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Re: New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostThu Nov 12, 2020 1:59 am

Better to ask in the Resolve forum since it's quite a different topic to this one -
viewforum.php?f=21
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James Harkness

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Re: New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostThu Nov 12, 2020 2:20 am

CaptainHook wrote:Better to ask in the Resolve forum since it's quite a different topic to this one -
viewforum.php?f=21


gotcha appreciate it Captain as always. Thanks for making such a great program.
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javier forza

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Re: New Gen 5 Video and Extended Video in Resolve 17

PostSat Feb 27, 2021 3:18 pm

Thank you Captain. Well explanation.

I notice in Gen 5 a lot of noise, only repaired with spacial NR, that is very GPU demanding for color grade during the playback without cancel de NR Node. Food for thoughts - and experiment - wich one is convenient.

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