Dedolight Lightstream & Light Bridge/CRLS

I watched Dedo Weigert's livestream on this system today and I'm wondering if anyone has used it. If so, I'd appreciate comments on whether you are finding the system useful and in what circumstances. I plan to talk with Dedolight's California office in the next few days, and this query is part of an attempt to get up to speed on the system. I've started working my way through the videos about Lightstream, of which there are a good number. Indeed, there's a Lightstream playlist.

I would use Lightstream with two of Dedolight's tungsten 150W lights (DLH4) and a Dedolight projection attachment with 85mm f/2.8 lens. I am prepared to add one or two lights, not necessarily DLH4, if Lightstream is sufficiently beneficial. For my existing lights, there are three suitable parallel beam intensifiers (DPBA 714, 710 and 7) as shown in this screen capture:

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I'd also appreciate comments on using a parallel beam intensifier without Lightstream reflectors.

Thanks

P.S. If anyone is interested, this is the livestream that Dedo Weigert did today. The presentation starts at 13:50:

This is the Lightstream playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... c8YQGPoi4F

I don't have any experience with the Lightstream but I have a couple of their mono 150w tungsten for a few years now and they are my trusty tiny yet very powerful and accurate 3200K lights. For many who read my post in the old BMCUSER forum, know that I go for tungsten lamp Fresnel and spots. The light spread has nice roll-offs. Always like the Dedo products - a bit pricy and if you're using the tungsten ones, be careful as they get very hot.

I believe they’re Frank Glencairn’s favourite lights. And when shooting people, I believe John Brawley prefers tungsten as well for superior skin tones and colour rendition.

I believe they’re Frank Glencairn’s favourite lights. And when shooting people, I believe John Brawley prefers tungsten as well for superior skin tones and colour rendition.

I wish I could say that purchasing Dedolight tungsten lights rather than LEDs was a considered decision, but I bought them before Dedolight even made LED lights. Apparently the company now calls what I have "Classic" Dedolights, which sounds like a euphemism for old fashioned. They still make them, though.

This Daniel Norton video, Before You Buy Dedolight, talks a lot about the LED lights, but the first half is about the DLH4 tungsten lights. I have the separate rather than integrated ballast. They talk about the projector starting just after 06:00:

Long live the Classics!

I’ve used them. The idea is great. As the features say.

The problem I found was that as of 2 years ago and recently, they are very hard to come by.

They are expensive.

And in use the main problem is mounting the mirrors to a secure enough base. I found that you almost can’t get them locked enough and any vibration moves the light and now your whole light source vibrates and jiggles. It’s very sensitive to its environment.

I found this to be a constant issue, trying to make the rigging of the mirror as solid and locked as possible and you still end up with occasional flickering of the reflected source.

Brilliant idea. Needs to be used in the right situations. With the right rigging.

JB

I own a DLH4 myself and it can be described as a scalpel. By precisely shaping the light beam you can achieve curious effects like making an object "shine", etc.

I'll second John Brawley's comments.

I was originally planning to get the competing and nearly identical CRLS system, which is available from B&H in New York (the other competing system is K-Flect), but there is a Dedo dealer here in Canada so I worked with him to assemble a small, portable lighting kit for one-person interviews, which is my main use for lighting. The advantage is that I can fit my entire lighting kit, save for the C-stands of course, in a carry-on-size case. I can do basic lighting for an interview (key, fill, and rim light) with just one actual light, although two lights would speed setup time (especially for rim light/backlight, which can be tricky to achieve with the one-light setup) and provide more options.

The disadvantages, in addition to the expense and the vibration/jiggle issue John flagged above, are that it takes some time to plan your setup and you can spend a fair amount of time fine-tuning the angles of the reflectors. For interviews there's no movement so I haven't faced the jiggling issue in that context but have experienced it when filming small musical performances where the musicians are tapping their feet; it's only an issue in my experience when you've got the reflectors hanging out on boom arms; if they're attached close to the body of the C stand I haven't noticed any movement.

The reflectors come in a range of diffusion levels, from mirror-like to very diffuse. So there's no need for softboxes etc.; it's a very compact and portable solution.

My system uses a small 40-watt DLED4 BI light with a parallel beam intensifier that boosts the output something like 8 times, which is more than enough to light an interview with reflectors if you're framing your subject closely (you need your reflectors placed fairly close to the subject when using this particular light, otherwise it's too dim, even with the parallel beam intensifier in place). The color temperature is adjustable from 3200 to 5600k, so you can get it right down to tungsten levels if you like, or daylight on the other end. It's also dimmable and makes no noise when dimmed. If no power is available you can run it on a V-mount battery. The light is so small and light that you can safely mount it on a C-stand instead of a light stand. You can mount the light to the bottom of a C-stand, pointing up to the first reflector, which then bounces across to other reflectors; I've also mounted the light on top of a C-stand and pointed it across to the reflector that serves as the key light.

I have the 25 x 25 cm reflectors, which are too small for anything but one-person interviews. They come in handy for outdoor shooting (reflecting sunlight) as well since they are very portable. I also have a few of the tiny 7 x 10 cm reflectors for supplemental lighting; I'm using these mostly for stills photography outdoors since they fit in my camera bag. You need magic arms to adjust the reflector angles. Dedo sells some that are designed for use with their reflectors and lock everything down nicely, but you can get third-party magic arms cheaper elsewhere.

I only got my system last summer and with COVID haven't been able to do any actual interviews, but I've experimented with it and I think it'll be adequate (although I plan to supplement it eventually with a second light for more flexibility).

There's an example of using the Dedo Lightstream system for interviews here:

Thanks to John Brawley and Brad Hurley for pointing out that Lightstream reflectors are very sensitive to vibration. This is pretty important to know.

I was originally planning to get the competing and nearly identical CRLS system

Thanks for that reference too. It turns out that there is a relationship between Dedolight and Austrian cinematographer Christian Berger (The White Ribbon) and gaffer Jakob Ballinger, who came up with the idea for the reflectors used in the Dedolight Lightstream system. Ballinger is the CEO and founder of The LightBridge, which makes the CLRS (Cine Reflect Lighting System) reflectors. Dedo Weigert has made a video endorsing CRLS reflectors, and they are apparently the same as Dedolight's own, although the mounting system may be different.

It appears that Dedolight's contribution is the parallel beam attachments that greatly magnify the output of Dedo lights. Use of the CLRS reflectors, and Dedolight's own, is not dependent on using a Dedo light or a parallel beam intensifier.

It's very helpful to know that Brad has the system working with a Dedolight DLED4 BI, which appears to be essentially an LED, dual colour temperature version of my tungsten DLH4 lights.

Two questions for Brad... Do you have a use for the parallel beam intensifier without the reflectors? Also, which parallel beam attachment are you using - DPBA 714, 710 or BI7? For anyone interested, here is the chart for Brad's light and these three attachments/intensifiers:

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This is his DLED4 BI. It comes in a couple of mounts, this being one of them:

01DLED4-BI_HD01-6a383a47d5c447fg328f71978d5a921e.jpg (17.22 KiB) Viewed 37877 times

You will need deep pockets.
By the time that you have put together a grip package and all the devices you will need to make the system work at max efficiency, you will have been able to afford several lamp heads and widgets from other manufacturers.

I would consider this an elite system and great for conversation but from a budget point of view in this day and age of technology development, very expensive.

But still something on my wish list.

We’re all dancing like the Fiddler on the Roof singing If I was a Rich Man!

Rob, I would go with the DLED7 and not DLED4 - they are just too weak. I do own two of the DLED7 and a DLED12.
BTW, the DLED12 is catching dust in my warehouse - because despite being 225W its output is too weak, at 100% the same brightness like my Rayzr7 300D at 15%.
But built like a tank.

You will need deep pockets.

Granted, my little setup is the bare minimum and for a very limited use case but in total (including buying a set of C stands) I spent less than $4,000 US on the works (light, parallel beam intensifier, power supply/dimmer, reflectors, magic arms, C stands, taxes, and shipping). I could obviously have spent much less on a traditional three-light system with diffusers, barn doors, etc. but Lightstream seemed worth it for me for the simplicity (only one light--and a very energy-efficient one at that), portability, and the more natural falloff of the light that you get through its clever use of the inverse square law. For a one-man show these are important considerations for me, although given all the tweaking of reflector angles required I'm not sure it actually saves that much time.

Do I have a use for the parallel beam attachment without the reflectors? Probably not, since I'm only using the reflectors. The intensifier is definitely needed for my little 40watt light, but with it I'm getting plenty of light for one-person interviews. I have no plans to use the light in a conventional manner -- I did this to avoid having to buy and haul around diffusers, barndoors, and all the other traditional lighting paraphenalia. It should work for my limited requirements, but we'll see. I'm a newbie to lighting and saw this as a key decision at the outset: go traditional or try this innovative approach instead. I spent about 8 months on research before making my decision...we'll see if it turns out to the right one.

I have the DBPA-714 parallel beam intensifier.

Rob, I would go with the DLED7 and not DLED4

Brad Hurley is using the DLED4. As explained above, for the moment I'm considering this for use with the DLH4 tungsten lights that I already own. I'm also thinking about the parallel beam intensifiers and the reflectors as independent components. Re output, I've now had a chance to watch videos in which DLH4 lights are used with the system.

Rob, I would go with the DLED7 and not DLED4

Brad Hurley is using the DLED4.

Yes, but note all the caveats I mentioned about it. I agree that it's weak; there are times when I wished I'd gotten something more powerful. It definitely works for one-person interviews but I had also hoped to also use this system to do small music videos of 2-3 musicians and I will need to get another light (probably stronger) to make that work. I've used it in one music video so far and it wasn't up to the task.

I've used it in one music video so far and it wasn't up to the task.

The 400w HMI is a FANTASTIC light, very underrated. Because of the amazing Dedo optics, the 400W feels more like a 1200w light. It’s got the CRLS / Lightbridge optics as well, but it’s already a very collocates beam projector already. It’s a bit more useful as a regular light too.

https://www.dedolightcalifornia.com/pro ... d-400-575w

JB

This is a video that UK cinematographer Ian Murray did for Dedolight in which he uses the "Classic" 150w tungsten light (DLH4), which are the lights I have, with Lightstream. The focus in this video is on concepts and components rather than on using Lightstream to reduce kit; he uses four DLH4 lights, six reflectors and four parallel beam attachments, using two different attachments, one more powerful than the other. He also effectively touches on using parallel beam attachments or reflectors as independent components.

This is Ian Murray's own YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbR19K ... dgxeTNfL6w

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ianmurraydop/?hl=en

I've used it in one music video so far and it wasn't up to the task.

The 400w HMI is a FANTASTIC light, very underrated. Because of the amazing Dedo optics, the 400W feels more like a 1200w light. It’s got the CRLS / Lightbridge optics as well, but it’s already a very collocates beam projector already. It’s a bit more useful as a regular light too.

Do you happen to have an opinion on the DLH652T tungsten light that takes 300w, 500w or 600w lamps? URL: https://www.dedolightcalifornia.com/pro ... -100v-240v

DLH652T_Front_Tungsten_Classics_Wht_1000_01_1512x.jpeg (177.68 KiB) Viewed 37729 times

Do you have an opinion on the DLH652T tungsten light that takes 300w, 500w or 600w lamps? URL: https://www.dedolightcalifornia.com/pro ... -100v-240v

There’s the same physical head and optics, just tungsten.

For the size, I prefer the PUNCH of a HMI, which is also daylight.

Have the OG master kit of four heads and they’re so great for their size. My desert isle lights. Once you go to so much larger a lamp, the difference if it’s the Tungsten version doens’t seem like it’s much brighter for a much larger head.

Much much bigger head, not much of a bump in brightness.

400w HMI is much much bigger head but huge leap in output AND it’s daylight balanced. Forgot to add too, that for both these there’s a GREAT projection attachment that turns them into a kind of Leko / Source 4. Very flexible light.

In Higher wattage tungsten I prefer the DLH1000, a 1000w light designed to go into an octodome.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1092004-REG

They also make a 400W HMI version of that too, but it’s pricey. Lovely lamp because it’s a HUGE soft source, very punchy and very shallow, so a very small footprint. Goes on a single stand and is well balanced. You don’t end up with all this hardware out in the way. Great when you want a big soft source but don’t have a lot of room.

JB

I just used the light stream system as well as the Ursa Mini Pro 12k for the first time on a music video. The system is great and allows you to get an approximation of a higher power/wattage look on house power. It will be a go to on everything when available as most rental houses do not have it, especially useful when a genny op and big boy lights are not in the cards. Wind/shake is an issue, but it only affected one take of the bedroom scene and we noticed it and just waited 20 seconds for the wind to calm down. We had a dedo 1200 HMI plus parallel beam attachment plus 50cm and smaller sized reflectors.

Some frame grabs.
Someone mentioned it taking longer to set up. Here is an example of the exact opposite. One source becomes 3. Much quicker than 3 lights and the associated power runs.

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Here's the bedroom scene. This shot would not have been possible with our gear availability with the system. 2nd floor bedroom. We did not have access to a mombo combo to get a light over the window so we took a triple rise combi plus extra c-stand arm for a bit of height and had two reflectors on the end of that. Light was on a low boy at ground level.

PLF_Final_Jan12_00010204.JPG (61.26 KiB) Viewed 37693 times

Fantastic tools as part of a lighting and grip package.
Won't allow me to post a URL so the music video on youtube is Chantelle Mussell - Perfect Little Failure.

I just used the light stream system as well as the Ursa Mini Pro 12k for the first time on a music video.
...
Fantastic tools as part of a lighting and grip package.
Won't allow me to post a URL so the music video on youtube is Chantelle Mussell - Perfect Little Failure.

Athan Merrick's web site: https://www.athanmerrick.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/athanmerrick/

Chantelle Mussell's web site: https://chantellemussell.com

^Thanks for embedding the vid.

Thanks for the comments. I was very intrigued about getting one of these panels, probably a 50. But good to weight the pros/cons.

Awesome work on that video Athan! Thanks for sharing the BTS.

This is the video that I mentioned earlier in which Dedo Weigert talks about Dedolight and The Light Bridge almost like it's a partnership. The Light Bridge (gaffer Jakob Ballinger and cinematographer Christian Berger) created the CRLS (Cine Reflect Lighting System) reflectors, and Dedolight developed parallel beam intensifiers for its lights, and indeed appears to have created a new 1200w HMI light, to work with the CRLS reflectors. See 16:24, and especially Dedo Weigert's comments starting at 16:50. The YouTube video description gives full credit for the reflectors to The Light Bridge/CRLS.

That was in December 2016. Dedolight has subsequently started selling Dedolight-branded reflectors. I wonder whether there's a manufacturing agreement between the two companies, and what substantive differences there are, if any, between the two brands. Dedolight does appear to have its own mounting system/accessories. Also, it appears to offer more reflector sizes.

If one owns Dedo lights, Weigert's comments at 16:50 about the parallel beam intensifiers are worth a listen. Personally, I'm interested in the idea of using these attachments independently of reflectors.

Looks like Lightstream has been in the works for a long time.

Dedo Weigert published this interview with Christian Berger on his YouTube channel back in 2014. Berger has been using this method of lighting for almost 20 years. The interview underscores what some of the videos on Lightstream and CRLS suggest, which is that the approach is about more than efficiency.

A River of Light - Interview with DoP Christian Berger about CRLS

... there is a Dedo dealer here in Canada so I worked with him to assemble a small, portable lighting kit for one-person interviews, which is my main use for lighting.

there are times when I wished I'd gotten something more powerful. It definitely works for one-person interviews but I had also hoped to also use this system to do small music videos of 2-3 musicians and I will need to get another light (probably stronger) to make that work. I've used it in one music video so far and it wasn't up to the task.

This video by fellow Québecker François Aubry is worth watching if you haven’t already seen it. Aubry uses a single Dedolight 150w tungsten DLH4 for lighting that would work for an interview. As I understand it, the output of your DLED4 is similar. Like you, Aubry uses the DPBA-714 parallel beam attachment.

Probably because it’s the classic/core Dedo light and has been around for a long time, there are a fair number of videos on YouTube about using the DLH4.

There’s also a short (2:15) version of that video:

Aubry has also posted a video in which he uses Lightstream for a music performance held online due to the pandemic. The setup is probably more intricate than what you have in mind, but perhaps still worth watching:

Thanks, Rob -- I hadn't seen these; the interview lighting example is basically what I do but it's always instructive to see other peoples' setups in action. My main motivation for getting the system was the more natural falloff as well as the simplicity of only having one light to plug in (and I do think it's fairly economical overall: my kit includes 8 reflectors and I think I would have paid more if those were 8 separate lights plus there would be a lot more power cords and other stuff cluttering up my set, not to mention the heat output from all those lights).

For music videos I'm doing very simple live-performance videos generally with two musicians, but based on my experience so far I need to use two lights for that, and probably something stronger than my little DLED 4. A DLED7 would make sense. However, I've been contemplating getting a Profoto B10 for my stills photography (another pricey option, but excellent) and since it also has adjustable color temperature and can work as a continuous modeling light for video (not just a flash for stills), I might be able to use it as a supplemental light for the occasional music video.

Just want to note that Dedolight California is currently offering attractive pricing on the classic 150w tungsten light (DLH4), as well as interesting pricing on the DLH4 combined with a Lightstream parallel beam attachment (model 714, which is the most powerful for a DLH4 or size "M" LED light) and a kit of four Lightstream 25cmx25cm (10") reflectors.

US$550 for both a DLH4 light and a 24v/12v ballast is very competitive.

Link to the offers: https://www.dedolightcalifornia.com/collections/promos

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It looks like Christian Berger's Cine Reflect Lighting System (CRLS) goes back to about 2000/2001. At the time, he was working on the system with a gentleman named Christian Bartenbach. Bartenbach's company appears to be a fairly important player in the engineering and design of architectural lighting: https://www.bartenbach.com/en/

These two videos, published on YouTube in 2008, were intended to document the CRLS system. They are about Berger's use of CRLS in feature film production:

This video, featuring Berger's gaffer Jakob Ballinger (now CEO of The Light Bridge/CRLS), was published on Dedo Weigert's YouTube channel back in 2014:

As Brad Hurley notes above, there is a third company - KFLECT - that makes similar reflectors to The Light Bridge/CRLS and Dedolight. DedoWeigertFilm, in response to a question about the video that Brad Hurley posted above, says "These [Dedolight's reflectors] are similar reflectors to those of CRLS and KFLECT". The principal of KFECT appears to have had a role in the development of CRLS.

Re distribution in Canada and the U.S....

Dedolight handles its own distribution, with full-time agents in both countries. Matthews has taken over North American distribution of The Light Bridge/CRLS reflectors. KFLECT appears to have very limited distribution in North America.

In 2019, Dedo Weigert made a presentation on the new Lightstream system to Dedolight agents. This screen capture from the presentation uses a laser beam to show how Lightstream reflectors work. The light source (bottom left) sends the laser beam to a Lightstream reflector in the top left. This is a #1 reflector, which acts much like a mirror. It transmits the beam to another reflector (top right) with very little light loss. The second reflector transmits the beam to the subject or a third reflector (lower centre). The second reflector could be a #2, #3 or #4, depending on how much one wants to spread the light to the subject/third reflector. The #2 and #3 reflectors function, in terms of reflectivity, between the #1 reflector, which as mentioned reflects similarly to a mirror, and the #4, which reflects similarly to styrofoam.

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This is the same setup with a Dedolight LED light:

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This is the full presentation:

It isn't apparent from the title, but a significant part of this 2016 Dedolight video is about using parallel light beams and reflectors to "cheat" the inverse square law. Dedolight had started making parallel beam intensifiers, but Weigert talks about CRLS reflectors because in 2016 his own Lightstream reflectors didn't exist. He also talks about potential uses for a parallel beam intensifier independently of a reflector.

While unrelated to this thread, there's also interesting discussion about using neutral density filters on a light, which Dedolight makes in both gel and glass forms.

The Square Law (a.k.a. The Inverse Square Law)

You will need deep pockets.

By the time that you have put together a grip package and all the devices you will need to make the system work at max efficiency, you will have been able to afford several lamp heads and widgets from other manufacturers.

I would consider this an elite system and great for conversation but from a budget point of view in this day and age of technology development, very expensive.

But still something on my wish list.

We’re all dancing like the Fiddler on the Roof singing If I was a Rich Man!

I’ve now spent enough time looking into Lightstream and Light Bridge/CRLS that I feel comfortable offering my own view on cost.

First, Dedolight, whose lights are not inexpensive, has competition when it comes to the kinds of lights needed to make these reflector systems work. Light Bridge has been working with BB&S Lighting, based in Copenhagen but with several U.S. resellers, for several years. Light Bridge’s Jakob Ballinger is a fan of BB&S’s Compact Beamlight and Force 7 LED Leko. Indeed, BB&S was Light Bridge’s North American distributor before Matthews took over.

Currently, Dedolight itself is offering significant discounts on several of its lights, including discounts on Lightstream components when purchased with them.* However, only some of its agents are showing these prices on their websites. In some cases - e.g. Dedolight California - some, but not all, of the sale prices are shown. I’m unsure what to make of this. In any event, the main Dedolight page showing all of the sale prices, which are ex-tax and FOB Munich, is at https://www.dedoweigertfilm.de/dwf-en/c ... /index.php.

If one already owns lights that will work, or is prepared to purchase them, the next question is whether the reflectors and their fasteners are worth what they cost. In the case of Dedolight, one also has to include the cost of a parallel beam attachment.

I think that the answer to this question requires consideration of some subsidiary questions:

1. Is this a fad? Is it snake oil?
2. Can I do things with this system that I can’t do with traditional lights and light modifiers, or at least light more efficiently?
3. Am I prepared to spend time learning how to use this system?
4. Am I prepared to pay the significant markups that Dedolight and Light Bridge are charging for what are fundamentally finished squares of aluminium and fasteners? Can't I just make my own reflectors for a lot less money?
5. What is the difference in price, for one's use case and properly costed, between this system and a traditional approximation?

I should also note that Dedo Weigert himself says that one will sometimes want a somewhat softer light than what this system can produce by itself. However, there’s nothing preventing one from using additional diffusion.

What do we know from this thread so far about these questions?

Brad Hurley says that he decided to go with Dedolight Lightstream to light interviews, instead of traditional lighting, after careful consideration of cost and efficiency compared to alternatives.

Athan Merrick says that he used Lightstream on a recent music video and that it is a “fantastic tool”.

John Brawley says “Brilliant idea. Needs to be used in the right situations. With the right rigging.”

Brawley also says, perhaps talking about rental, “The problem I found was that as of 2 years ago and recently, they are very hard to come by.”

Picking up on that, there’s a video on YouTube in which a young Spanish cinematographer, interviewing Jakob Ballinger, says that Spanish rental houses are reluctant to carry CRLS because they are concerned that it would cut into their business of renting lights. However, this should not be an issue with Lightstream because Dedolight agents have their own rental operations. Also, it’s maybe worth noting that there is now a London rental house that specialises in renting out these systems of lighting.

In my case, I already have two Dedolight DLH4s (150W tungsten) and a DP1.1 Projector. When I first started looking at Lightstream a little over a week ago, I was intrigued but skeptical, both on the merits and on value for money. Leon Benzakein's and Rick Lang's posts, quoted above, capture some of my initial reaction. Having now spent quite a lot of time figuring out what Lightstream is and how it works, and having spent time with a calculator working out cost for my use case, I’ve decided to purchase Lightstream components. I have also decided to purchase a third Dedo light, but have not made a final decision about which model.


* Unusually, prices from Dedolight agents appear to be better, even without a sale, than prices from online retailers such as B&H.

Funny, I used it yesterday.

I want to start by saying that, as a German, I am familiar with Dedo and I meanwhile see them as a very expensive brand that kind of fell behind in recent years.

This system though is quite unique.

To be fair, I have used it only once before yesterday. Both times on the recommendation of the gaffer after we discussed what the goal was. Both times that setup just didn't deliver the desired results -- after tweaking for a not insignificant amount of time. We then got the desired results relatively fast with more standard methods.

My impression was that this system cannot produce much that can't be done with regular tools, BUT my experience with it is more than shallow and I feel that there's a learning curve that, when mastered, might result in great things - it's just not for me.

So I highly recommend trying this before shelling out the money.

Funny, I used it yesterday.

I want to start by saying that, as a German, I am familiar with Dedo and I meanwhile see them as a very expensive brand that kind of fell behind in recent years.

This system though is quite unique.

Cool. Good opportunity to say that one of the things that struck me about this system of lighting is that it was actually developed in Austria.

Cinematographer Christian Berger and architectural lighting designer/engineer Christian Bartenbach, who developed CRLS, are both Austrian. So are gaffer Jakob Ballinger, now the head of Light Bridge/CRLS, and cinematographer Frédéric-Gérard Kaczek, who apparently worked on CRLS and owns KFLECT.

I think that what Dedo Weigert brings to the table, in addition to his lights and parallel beam intensifiers, are the connections and hands-on distribution network that could help the system get traction. Unsurprisingly, he's also now making his own reflectors, bringing the whole system under one roof. By contrast, appointing Matthews as the North American distributor for CRLS reflectors strikes me as a less than optimal way to promote adoption.

... To be fair, I have used it only once before yesterday. Both times on the recommendation of the gaffer after we discussed what the goal was. Both times that setup just didn't deliver the desired results -- after tweaking for a not insignificant amount of time. We then got the desired results relatively fast with more standard methods.

My impression was that this system cannot produce much that can't be done with regular tools, BUT my experience with it is more than shallow and I feel that there's a learning curve that, when mastered, might result in great things...

Michel summarizes my perspective; the key is having the additional time at least initially and building on the experience to gain efficiency. Having individual lights may be more costly but fine-tuning intensity, shape, diffusion, and direction of individual lights seems more intuitive and easier.

In a fairly predictable and controlled situation such as interviews, it could be well worth it, as once you master it, you can just repeat that again and again; but for narrative film work with changing sets each only used once, it may be counter productive.

Michel summarizes my perspective; the key is having the additional time at least initially and building on the experience to gain efficiency. Having individual lights may be more costly but fine-tuning intensity, shape, diffusion, and direction of individual lights seems more intuitive and easier.

In a fairly predictable and controlled situation such as interviews, it could be well worth it, as once you master it, you can just repeat that again and again; but for narrative film work with changing sets each only used once, it may be counter productive.

Initially skeptical, I've decided that I'm open to trying this. I'd love to do a workshop, but in current conditions that kind of thing isn't going to happen for the foreseeable future. A trip to Dedolight U.S. (Los Angeles), or even the much closer Dedolight Canada (Kingston), isn't on either

My openness to this is probably the result, in part, of having used Dedolight focusing lights for over a decade. However, what really has me intrigued is material on how Christian Berger and Ian Murray use CRLS or Lightstream and watching Athan Merrick's music video above.

As Berger makes clear (see some of the videos earlier in this thread), he developed this system for the specific purpose of lighting narrative films. The film in which he first used CRLS won the 2001 Grand Prix at Cannes. When it comes to narrative work, I think that it's important to understand the role of Dedolight's 1.2K PB70 parallel beam light and to think through smaller lights from there. Use of the PB70 is discussed in some of the videos above, and there is good info on how Hoyte van Hoytema used it in Ad Astra.

In the following presentation, Ian Murray talks about using Lightstream for both television commercials and photo shoots. The finished commercials for the examples that he discusses are available on his website or elsewhere on the internet. His website is at http://www.imurray.com Some of the work, such as for the Gymshark web series, is on his Instagram account: https://z-p42.www.instagram.com/ianmurraydop/ There is also a Gymshark compilation on YouTube (unlisted), second video below.

Gymshark compilation:

No question that it is a good solution and I think you’ve done a great job researching the technology. I’ll be eager to hear how you are managing with the mechanics and seeing some results as you are able. I’m openminded on this, but not ready to commit to it. Always good to be aware of a creative solution that may ultimately be cost effective and efficacious on set. Thanks for your efforts!

Afaik Berger used CRLS the first time in Michael Haneke's feature "The White Ribbon". Because the houses were not staged sets but real tight houses this made it much easier and more natural to light.

Afaik Berger used CRLS the first time in Michael Haneke's feature "The White Ribbon". Because the houses were not staged sets but real tight houses this made it much easier and more natural to light.

Yes, Jakob Ballinger says that Christian Berger developed CRLS because his background was in documentary films and he wanted to bring a freer working style and more naturalistic look to his feature film work.

However, Berger started using CRLS well before The White Ribbon (2009). In one of the videos above, he says that he first experimented with CRLS in Heneke's La Pianiste (2001). He used CRLS as his core approach to lighting from then forward. The two videos that he made to document his use of CRLS in feature films (11 posts up) were published to YouTube in 2008. Those videos credit Christian Bartenbach (https://www.bartenbach.com) as co-developer of CRLS.

I’m openminded on this, but not ready to commit to it. Always good to be aware of a creative solution that may ultimately be cost effective and efficacious on set.

Given that Athan Merrick used Lightstream for the music video above, it sounds like one of the Vancouver rental houses may offer it, or perhaps he rented components from Dedolight in Kingston. Just a thought, but if your music festival shoot goes ahead a couple of Lightstream reflectors might come in handy. It would be an inexpensive way to experiment with the system a bit. Pete Burns, who made the video that Brad Hurley linked above, also made this short video:

Dedolight Lightstream Reflectors - Outdoors

So for 20 years these techniques have failed to establish themselves in either industrial feature filmmaking or at the semi-professional level, and with little indication the venture requires less in the way of gear or expertise. And the two people here with actual experience of the matter both decline to express enthusiasm.

It sounds a whole lot like the search for the ideal camera, which lights, writes, and directs and makes everyone famous. On youtube, anyway.

They seem pretty popular in London among commercial/TVC crews. Occasionally see them in fashion too.

Using reflected light off shiny surfaces is a particular "look" and has a place in lighting design.
The same can be said about ring lights.

These are both not a "look" that I would choose to be my signature but I would consider for the appropriate production feel or requirement.

As for portability. when you consider the weight of the support equipment required to make this system work, that too is debatable.

As a creative one can never get away from oneself because wherever you go, there you are.
At times it is refreshing to try something different and give the third eye the opportunity to play.

However, IMO, one should never nail one's foot to the floor.

[Re Christian Berger and CRLS:] Because the houses were not staged sets but real tight houses this made it much easier and more natural to light.

This setup got my attention and provided something of a framework for thinking about CRLS/Lightstream. I don’t know about Vienna, but if you live, say, in Paris, your apartment has large windows that fully open. Want to get a big piece of furniture into your fifth floor apartment? It comes through a window.

The light in these screen captures is a Dedolight P (parallel) B (beam) 70. It’s 1200W and can be powered from an ordinary household electrical circuit. It puts out 120,000 Lux at 5m. There's some interesting arithmetic for this light and the inverse square law. Ian Murray talks about his use of the PB70 for TV commercials in his presentation eight posts up, and the results can be seen on his website, Instagram page and YouTube channel.

The screen captures are from Dedo Weigert's 2016 video above. No truck, no crane, no generator.

light head 2.jpeg (279.69 KiB) Viewed 36900 times

Setting up the PB70 at ground level, aimed straight up at a #1 CRLS reflector. That's Jakob Ballinger in the Light Bridge T-shirt.

floor 5.jpeg (334.84 KiB) Viewed 36900 times

The #1 reflector directing the light through an open window to light the interior.

upper reflector.jpeg (146.88 KiB) Viewed 36900 times

To add to the discussion.
They are great tools as a part of a larger set of tools. They should not be the only part of a package. I outlined 2 specific examples where it was beneficial both for the look and timesaving. When I can they will be on every shoot. For both of those examples we obviously used other tools like a light in a soft box and a bunch of negative fill and other small lamps.

The best way to view them is a way to light the space more naturally and efficiently. When using the parallel beam attachments your light is farther away and you get less fall off, which looks more natural or like a "bigger budget/higher power" look. 1 light can become 3 so you need less units and less power. If you are a big budget production that has 4k's to 18k's with a big genny and c-way and crew then sure they might not be beneficial as you can just put another lamp up. For all other productions where maybe you have one 4k as your big gun running off a dryer plug or a 6000 watt put put and below, like 1200's off house power, they are immensely useful.

The reflectors are not "soft" sources though and that should be obvious. While you certainly could light interviews with them I would save them purely for lighting the background in the interview and maybe a hair light. For the subject most people would agree a soft source somewhere between 3ft-8ft in size is going to be the most common look for lighting a face. With that said they would be great for nice book lights in tight rooms for interviews. Say a 50cm reflector bounced through an 6x6 or 8x8.

I say all that as a full time DP who spent a few years a decade ago as an iatse lamp op, best boy, and rigging lighting tech, so I've seen it all from zero budget to 200 million dollar movies. The reflectors combined with any type of narrow beam light are very useful tools, especially for the "indy" market.

And I got to use them because a production company locally in BC invested in them. For rental houses the only place I know of in Canada that has a set is Whites because I am prepping a show and asked them. They are currently in Toronto but they will move them to other locales in Canada. Terry at DedoCanada in Ontario also obviously has some stuff.

The Dedo PB70 is not a small nor is it a low cost light.

When I used the system a couple of years ago, the largest lighting vendor in the US didn't have any of them in stock and had to buy two in for me.

I tested them against other collimated beam projectors like the Molebeams.

https://flic.kr/p/2kBLoE7

https://www.mole.com/molebeams

Look at how big it is. It comes in a road case that weights more than 200 pounds and needs 4 guys to lift it. It's on wheels, you take the lid off and it's like it is in the above photo, ready to point straight into the air.

It also costs 20k. That's twenty thousand bucks for a 1.2k HMI. Thats a very expensive light for the wattage.
https://www.dedolightcalifornia.com/col ... system-set

On set I found the smaller 200W HMI Dedos worked better for me, fitted with the CRLS optic.
https://flic.kr/p/2kBGhQF

All these optics do is turn them into a Leko / source 4 type light. You want a collimated beam of light to only hit the reflector. In practice you still have to do a lot of flagging and fiddling to get to that result.

Look at this clip.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/johnbrawley/PkcsDy

There's an extra cinefoil snoot wrapped on the light and a flag behind the reflector to stop it spilling into the set. The camera's shooting position is where the reflector is focussed.

It's more fussy. It's more expensive. And a lot of the time it doesn't really give you much more. Occasionally it's nice to have because the way the light falls off with distance mimics a larger source that's further away, however, it's not often that this is much of a problem, considering the downsides of the system.

As I said previously, nice idea, in practice hard to do well and comes with other more fussy requirements for the upsides to be worth while.

JB

On set I found the smaller 200W HMI Dedos worked better for me, fitted with the CRLS optic.
https://flic.kr/p/2kBGhQF
...
Look at this clip.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/johnbrawley/PkcsDy

That 200W HMI is a light that I'm considering. The light in the clip looks like it's also the 200W, or is it the 400W?

As I mentioned, the PB70 setup in those screen captures helped me think about CRLS/Lightstream conceptually. I just found it easier to think about this by starting with larger lights and working back to smaller lights rather than the other way around. I'm not planning on renting a PB70, let alone buying one, anytime soon. Good to have your thoughts about it, though.

On set I found the smaller 200W HMI Dedos worked better for me, fitted with the CRLS optic.
https://flic.kr/p/2kBGhQF
...
Look at this clip.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/johnbrawley/PkcsDy

That 200W HMI is a light that I'm considering. Is the light in the clip also the 200W, or the 400W?

As I mentioned, the PB70 setup in those screen captures helped me think about CRLS/Lightstream conceptually. I'm not planning on renting one, let alone buying one, anytime soon. Good to have your thoughts about it, though.

That’s the 200w in the clip.

It’s the same same size as a classic Dedo that has the ballast on the bottom. A good performer but still about 4k all in from memory.

This is the 400w. Also a great light bu much larger. About the size of a 1K Fres.

https://www.dedolightcalifornia.com/col ... 0-400w-hmi

JB

That’s the 200w in the clip.

It’s the same same size as a classic Dedo that has the ballast on the bottom. A good performer but still about 4k all in from memory.

This is the 400w. Also a great light bu much larger. About the size of a 1K Fres.

Having a couple of DLH4s and a Projector, one attraction of the 200W HMI is that it takes the same accessories. The current Dedolight California sale price with DC ballast is $1950.

I resisted the strong temptation of the 400W when I purchased DLH4s, although a decade later I might come to a different decision

I mentioned it above, but maybe worth reiterating that if one wants tungsten lights, current sale prices on the DLH4s, without and with Lightstream, are very attractive.