Rode NTG2 on BMCC without pre amp, or better with A-Box?

Dear Cinematoprahers,

I'm new to this forum. Been using Canon DSLR for filmmaking for 2 years and experience all kinds of sound problems (yeah...). Currently I am stuck with a Sennheiser mini-jack shutgun (for gun and run) and a Rode NTG2 for interviews. I did not invest on sound equipment because I have been saving for a BMCC. My field recorder Zoom H4n has a very bad pre-amp, I could barely hear the voice when I place my subject right in front of the mic (while remaining the mic out of the frame). The H4n+NTG2 combination is famous for it's low gain, so I am taking precaustion when shopping for my next camera - the BMCC (planing to get it soon).

My questions are:
1, How is the level when I plug NTG2 with XLR-JACK cable on AA batteries? Compared to it plug with H4n, is it better?
2, How about A-Box from Wooden Camera? Does it improve the pre-amp of BMCC?
3, Do you think a Tascam TR 60D would do the same thing as juicelink? I'm in Europe, hard to access certain brands. I saw a Tascam for sale, so I might get that if a pre-amp is a must.
4, If I run a mini-jack cable from Tascam (or another pre-amp field recorder) to BMCC, does BMCC do some strange AGC thing, like DSLRs? I know that Magic Latern could fix DSLR's AGC, but I hope this won't be a problem on BMCC. Anyone has experienced problems with Mini-jack input?

Thanks very much in advance!

I would wait until you hear from some of the audio experts...but in my experience, the input on the BMCC is very low. Also, since it requires a balanced input, I think you need to route through a preamp/mixer that's capable of outputting a balanced signal. I tried running my Rode NTG (and an unpowered condenser mic) directly into the BMCC and even at 100% I was getting a ridiculously low signal.

The A-Box isn't a preamp/amp...it's just a connection adapter.

The Tascam is also a recorder. So you would benefit from a preamp/mixer...plus having an extra copy of audio. Unfortunately, the TR60D has stepped volume control that you can hear in the audio if you need to make live adjustments to your audio while recording. If you don't, it might be a viable solution for you.

No, the BMCC does not have AGC.

Thanks! I am aware of the Tascam 60D's 'stepping' factor, and I actually don't mind. When I adjust in Zoom H4n, it has the 'click-click' handling noise anyway!

A-box would give me a balanced XLR to Jack, at least? I mean, if my XLR is balanced, the Jack should be as well? My NTG2 should give a balanced XLR output.

What about your NTG, is it a NTG1 or NTG2 (or 3)? I think NTG1 won't run because it requires 48v but BMCC won't give any v?

NTG1 and NTG2 are the exact same microphone. The 2 simply adds built in phantom support using AAs. Yes, you need phantom power with the BMCC. After playing around with a few microphones, I decided I needed a mixer to input good audio into the BMCC. So I opted for the NTG1, because it's smaller and therefore fits on a portable rig better.

I still think your level is gong to be too weak to run the NTG2 directly into the BMCC. But you could try....worst case you have to add a mixer if it doesn't work.

Hello

What you need is a preamp with 48V Phantom (for the NTG-2)

I have a BMDCC and a Rode NTG-2, the quality is not bad, but not optimal (no XLR 48V Phantom)

A condenser microphone need power (48V) to work well.

Therefore you need a preamp. Believe me. :0)

- RED -

Hello

What you need is a preamp with 48V Phantom (for the NTG-2)

I have a BMDCC and a Rode NTG-2, the quality is not bad, but not optimal (no XLR 48V Phantom)

A condenser microphone need power (48V) to work well.

Therefore you need a preamp. Believe me. :0)

- RED -

Do you mean that the quality of sound (or volume of sound) vary between AA powered and 48V powered? So NTG2 would be potentially 'louder' with 48V at the same set-up?

Hello

What you need is a preamp with 48V Phantom (for the NTG-2)

I have a BMDCC and a Rode NTG-2, the quality is not bad, but not optimal (no XLR 48V Phantom)

A condenser microphone need power (48V) to work well.

Therefore you need a preamp. Believe me. :0)

- RED -

?? You don't need separate phantom power for a Rode NTG2...you can install AAs and the mic is self powered.

Directly from Rode's website:

The NTG2 operates either from a AA (1.5V) battery or P48 phantom power which can be supplied by professional cameras, audio recorders and power supplies.

http://www.rodemic.com/mics/ntg-2

What are the options for pre-amp (ideally AA powered so I won't have to carry a charger-adaptor all the time)?
What are the alternatives to Tascam 60D (a recorder with pre amp)? THANKS A MILLION!

Directly from Rode's website:

The NTG2 operates either from a AA (1.5V) battery or P48 phantom power which can be supplied by professional cameras, audio recorders and power supplies.

http://www.rodemic.com/mics/ntg-2

Yes, it can be powered both ways, I am aware of it. But as the last post RED wrote: 'A condenser microphone need power (48V) to work well.' I understood it as: AA powered gives different result than 48V powered.

I searched and found that Robert Rozak wrote on DVinfo: 'The same microphone which can be use from both phantom power or its own battery, will usually have slightly better specifications from phantom power for things like the maximum input SPL handling.'
I didn't know this! Why didn't RODE mark this on the box?

AA battery power it's not the same as 48V Phantom power.

The mic is more sensible and did not need a lot of volume (less background or signal noise).

Condenser mic + preamp (48v) and all it's good ;0)


- RED -

Used Mix-Pre, you can get them for about $300 and they amp the signal by about 66db.. pretty awesome! And has a bulit in limiter too..

I checked the Mix-Pre, wow, it's like a new horizon for me! I like the idea of Mix-pre because I can use it with Zoom H4n and/or the BMCC. It has XLR output and run on AA batteries. It seems perfect! I just have a couple of questions:
To run Mix-Pre into BMCC, you use XLR to Line, or Line to Line? (the line, jack, 6.35 or 1/4 thingy)
What's the difference between Pre-mix and Pre-mix D?

Anyone have thoughts on this solution?

http://www.naiant.com/tinyboxspecification.html

I'm looking to find a solution for audio for my BMPCC that's both simple and portable.

Some new products from Beachtek may be of interest.

It seems for now in EU I can access Tascam 60D and Beachtek products. I'm thinking about this one:
http://www.photocineshop.com/en/product ... era-HHLD2V
But the design and Beachtek website really suprise me - they look awful! Is it at least a working horse? I don't know!
Not much online literature about this product.

I was searching and searching, finally found a MixPre-D, for 935.00€ in Paris. I also found a couple of 999 euro offers online in EU stores.
It seems I will buy a mixing desk instead of a portable device, for more control and cheaper price. I'm thinking about Mackie 402 VLZ3 or VLZ4, Mackie's smallest mixers. It would be 1.4 KG with power cord, but at least I've got 4 channels... Anyone using a mixing table as pre-amp?

We use a Røde NTG2 and a Sony microport through a ART Dual pre USB (€91). With firmware 1.4 we set the gain at +40 and 50% out on the preamp and the BMCC at 50% line in. Works fine, though we have to raise the lower frequencies in post - but have a standard-filter set up in FCP so it's just drag and drop.

/Thomas

We use a Røde NTG2 and a Sony microport through a ART Dual pre USB (€91). With firmware 1.4 we set the gain at +40 and 50% out on the preamp and the BMCC at 50% line in. Works fine, though we have to raise the lower frequencies in post - but have a standard-filter set up in FCP so it's just drag and drop.

/Thomas

Thanks for the information. It seems a very economical option. Is the audio quality is acceptable? , Or just to synchronize as a reference?

Fully acceptable for our use (television and web). Can't post any of our current production yet - but we did a ENG test shoot with the BMCC recently - where we used a dynamic microphone for the interview and the Røde NTG2 as camera microphone both through the the ART pre amp:

3YJnsTF6bnQ on youtube

/Thomas

Thanks Thomas. What time work the 9v battery?

Has anyone tried the cheap Irig Pre solution yet?
It works quite well for basic tasks if used with Canon DSLRs and could be a very light and cheap run and gun solution for the BMCC and maybe also for the Pocket Camera.
The point is that the Irig Pre does not give very much gain and while it is enough to run an NTG2 on some DSLRs, the output level might be too low for the BM internal Preamps.
I have got an Irig at home, but no Pocket Camera yet. As soon as my cam arrives I will do some testing.
http://www.dslrfilmnoob.com/2012/11/25/ ... eamp-dslr/

Thanks Thomas. What time work the 9v battery?

Manu, haven't tried with a 9v battery option yet - we have a Swedish Chameleon battery on top of a big hawk woods battery (for the bmcc) at the rear of the rig that has an usb power out that feeds the pre amp. It's like 100w or something so we just charge it once a week and haven't run out of juice yet.

We use the internal battery in the NTG2 for phantom - and changes that battery before going on a shoot. But could use the phantom of the ART pre - actually thats the only other bad thing on the pre amp it's only possible to turn phantom on for both channels not one at the time. The first bad thing is that the balance knob on the back has to be dead center or the channels will be respectively higher and lower.

/Thomas

Thanks Thomas. What time work the 9v battery?

Manu, haven't tried with a 9v battery option yet - we have a Swedish Chameleon battery on top of a big hawk woods battery (for the bmcc) at the rear of the rig that has an usb power out that feeds the pre amp. It's like 100w or something so we just charge it once a week and haven't run out of juice yet.

We use the internal battery in the NTG2 for phantom - and changes that battery before going on a shoot. But could use the phantom of the ART pre - actually thats the only other bad thing on the pre amp it's only possible to turn phantom on for both channels not one at the time. The first bad thing is that the balance knob on the back has to be dead center or the channels will be respectively higher and lower.

/Thomas

Thank you very much Thomas. I appreciate your response.

I read about 'ART Dual pre USB' when I was doing research on the net. My problem is:
- This unit does not mount easily, compared to Tascam 60D (sure it is cheaper).
- It is 'noisy' when you touch the metal case (according to a review on youtube).
- It doesn't use AA batteries, so extra battery to carry.
- The max gain is not as high as Mackie mixing tables.

Surely there are a lot of cons:
Small, portable, cheap, multiple powering options, USB interface...

Is it really good? I don't want to settle for OK I am looking for anything from 80 euro to 350 euros.

My problem is:

- This unit does not mount easily, compared to Tascam 60D (sure it is cheaper). :lol

:



Here are two examples of clever mount options for the ART USB Pre

http://www.dslrfilmnoob.com/2011/05/19/ ... t-adapter/

Some new products from Beachtek may be of interest.

great , thanks for the link too much
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It seems for now in EU I can access Tascam 60D and Beachtek products. I'm thinking about this one:
http://www.photocineshop.com/en/product ... era-HHLD2V
But the design and Beachtek website really suprise me - they look awful! Is it at least a working horse? I don't know!
Not much online literature about this product.

It's just a dumb adapter like the A-Box, but in a fancy housing.
You need a good preamp.

I know, I sound like a broken record, but just get a JuicedLink BC366 and all is good.

I used it for several commercials, shortfilms, interviews andwhatnot.
It was good enough for primetime TV and ministers.
I used it as a camera preamp, as a A-box when getting the signal from a field mixer, even as a preamp for my Zoom H2n. Works like a charm.

Hi, finally I purchased a Mackie 402VLZ4 (the new series with Onyx preamp), having in mind that I might use it for recording guitar or small vocal performance for friends. It has not many reviews yet because it's very new.
I tried yesterday with my NTG2 and Zoom H4n. It's still plenty of white noise. I don't know what to do now!

What are your settings on the Mackie (where are the rotary controllers positioned) and the H4N?

The H4N XLR input should be set at LINE IN, zero gain; Assuming you're using the MIC 1 input of the Mackie, Level 1 should be at U, MAIN MIX Should be at U, make sure both EQ bands are set at U and only use the Gain 1 knob to increase/decrease your volume. Make sure all the other pots -except EQ on channel 2, they should stay at U- are at O (turned completely counterclockwise). If you are recoding dialogue, you should aim for the average level on the meter to be between 0 and +4.