Pocket 6K Pro

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Dan Keeble

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Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 6:55 pm

Last edited by Dan Keeble on Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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xchrisx

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:02 pm

someone liked the Tiltain screen flip method lol
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Akpe Ododoru

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:10 pm

Really like the inbuilt nd filter but really HATE the shape of the camera so not too sure am gonna be updating my P6K
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pnguyen720

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:11 pm

Some questions for BM:

Are the internals the same as the 6K like the audio preamps etc?

Also, how many nits is that new monitor?

And the dimensions of the 6K Pro body are different? I'm asking for existing cages and gimbal balancing.

Thank you.
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Adam Langdon

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:12 pm

pnguyen720 wrote:Some questions for BM:

Are the internals the same as the 6K like the audio preamps etc?

Also, how many nits is that new monitor?

And the dimensions of the 6K Pro body are different? I'm asking for existing cages and gimbal balancing.

Thank you.


1500nits
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Adam Langdon

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:14 pm

i REALLY hope with the software update that we could get faster readout times.
one of the reason i went with the 4k instead of the 6k was the rolling shutter being less.

I assume its the same?

This might be the perfect documentary camera, though. Which is right up my alley.

- Dual audio inputs
- 1500nits Screen
- built-in ND Filters
- LONGER battery life
- common EF mount
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:15 pm

Adam Langdon wrote:
pnguyen720 wrote:Some questions for BM:

Are the internals the same as the 6K like the audio preamps etc?

Also, how many nits is that new monitor?

And the dimensions of the 6K Pro body are different? I'm asking for existing cages and gimbal balancing.

Thank you.


1500nits


Thanks, definitely daylight bright!
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:16 pm

It is listed in the specs that it can record 4k DCI in BRAW. Can someone confirm this and what the crop will be?
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:20 pm

There’s three things I really want in a camera at the moment; box form factor, swappable lens mount, and braw. So torn but probably going to go Komodo.

Anyone seen the physical dimensions of this?
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Que Thompson

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:22 pm

bigger than the current "pocket"... i'm disappointed... it's been nice BM, but I think I'm jumping ship. THEY DIDN'T EVEN USE THE NEW SENSOR!!
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:23 pm

JacobSchuhle wrote:There’s three things I really want in a camera at the moment; box form factor, swappable lens mount, and braw. So torn but probably going to go Komodo.

Anyone seen the physical dimensions of this?


I just found them on the website. It's bigger than the 6K.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... s/W-CIN-16
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:27 pm

Some of the new features, like built-in ND and EVF, are great. But disappointed that they are still using EF mount for this.

Not much can be adapted to EF, whereas EF can easily be adapted to more modern mounts. This instantly cuts out people who use vintage glass, for example, whereas EF glass users would not be cut out if they used a modern mount.

I hope they bring the same updates to the 4k version and do a 4k Pro, or come out with a box version with a modern mount.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:28 pm

GuyMannerings wrote:Some of the new features, like built-in ND and EVF, are great. But disappointed that they are still using EF mount for this.

Not much can be adapted to EF, whereas EF can easily be adapted to more modern mounts. This instantly cuts out people who use vintage glass, for example, whereas EF glass users would not be cut out if they used a modern mount.

I hope they bring the same updates to the 4k version and do a 4k Pro, or come out with a box version with a modern mount.


Even a locking ef mount would help.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:30 pm

Curious to see this tilt screen in real life. My biggest complaint about the other pockets were the awful monitor. If it's punchy with good contrast and high brightness I'd be in for this!
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:34 pm

They forgot the webcam feature. :lol:
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:36 pm

GuyMannerings wrote:... I hope they bring the same updates to the 4k version and do a 4k Pro, or come out with a box version with a modern mount.


I had convinced myself that a camera with an 8K RGBWWW sensor was coming as either a new Pocket (possible in the identical body) or a new Micro 8K box with a new viewfinder. Really nice to see the viewfinder but need time to digest the new 6K Pro with the new viewfinder.

Please guys, let’s not jump from any tall buildings yet!
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:37 pm

kevin_p wrote:It is listed in the specs that it can record 4k DCI in BRAW. Can someone confirm this and what the crop will be?


Spec says:
4096 x 2160 (4K DCI)

Blackmagic RAW 3:1 - 136 MB/s
Blackmagic RAW 5:1 - 82 MB/s
Blackmagic RAW 8:1 - 51 MB/s
Blackmagic RAW 12:1 - 35 MB/s
Blackmagic RAW Q0 - 102 to 203 MB/s
Blackmagic RAW Q1 - 68 to 163 MB/s
Blackmagic RAW Q3 - 46 to 116 MB/s
Blackmagic RAW Q5 - 28 to 68 MB/s
Apple ProRes 422 HQ - 117.88 MB/s
Apple ProRes 422 - 78.63 MB/s
Apple ProRes 422 LT - 54.63 MB/s
Apple ProRes Proxy - 24.25 MB/s

That is crop of 1.5 compared to full readout.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:43 pm

Was hoping for PL...
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roger.magnusson

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:43 pm

Is there any reason it can't have the Blackmagic Raw scaling that the 12K has? Does that feature require a non-Bayer pattern sensor?
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:45 pm

Adam Langdon wrote:This might be the perfect documentary camera, though. Which is right up my alley.
...

- LONGER battery life


It takes an NP-F70 battery, which is generally about 2600mAh. Nothing to write home about. Their in-house NP-F570 is apparently 3500mAh, but that's still not a lot of energy.
Last edited by robedge on Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:47 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:That is crop of 1.5 compared to full readout.


Are you sure?
6K (full sensor) = 1.558x crop
5.7K (windowed sensor) = 1.692x crop

I am thinking a 4k....will be around a 2k crop? Just wanted to confirm.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:48 pm

It got 2 tripod mounting points now on the bottom.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:49 pm

I like the new Pocket 6K Pro camera. Blackmagic has heard the top complaints about the BMPCC4K & BMPCC6K models and has resolved them on this model.

Bravo for incorporating a tilting screen, bravo for incorporating more capacity batteries, bravo for the option of the electronic viewfinder, and bravo for the incorporation of internal nd filters!!!

I would love for BlackMagic to bring us the Pocket 4K Pro model. I have invested a lot of money in MFT lenses and I would like to continue using them in a 4k model that incorporates all the new features of the 6K Pro.

Are we going to have the Pocket 4k Pro model?
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Steve Holmlund

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:49 pm

Some initial impressions:

1. We don't know BMD sales numbers. Maybe the Pocket 6K has been a big success and the incremental update makes sense. This kind of incremental update 1 or 2 years after the OG BMPCC would have been welcomed by many but BMD wasn't as mature a camera maker then.

2. Sometimes you do what's achievable in the short term, instead of doing nothing or waiting longer. I think it is getting harder and harder for BMD to differentiate.

I'm curious why Sony/Panasonic/Canon/Nikon don't have internal Prores recording. It seems like that alone would win a lot of customers. Maybe the licensing deal from Apple isn't viable.

If I were BMD, I would see what a partnership with OMDS (formerly Olympus) might offer.

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:52 pm

Anyone know if the HDMI outputs 4K? I have two of the pocket 4K cameras and they are limited to 1080 via the HDMI.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:53 pm

Steve Holmlund wrote:
I'm curious why Sony/Panasonic/Canon/Nikon don't have internal Prores recording. It seems like that alone would win a lot of customers.


I think that Blackmagic would have to offer Apple ProRes Raw to win over ProRes users on that basis.
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Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:54 pm

If you are shooting BRAW 4K DCI on the 6K Pro, it’s the same sensor as the 6K. Photosites are 3.76 microns. Your crop is 2.34x.

The crop on the Pocket4K is less (1.9x) because the photosites are larger, 4.63 microns.
Last edited by rick.lang on Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 7:59 pm

EVF Specs ($495):


bm evf.jpeg
bm evf.jpeg (192.36 KiB) Viewed 6364 times
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 8:02 pm

… if only it had gyro data stabilization. Yes one can dream.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 8:04 pm

JacobSchuhle wrote:But disappointed that they are still using EF mount for this.
Disappointing.

An L-mount would allow PL as well as most vintage lenses to be used. And EF is vintage.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 8:07 pm

Now I don't feel bad for ordering my 2nd P4K. I was hoping for a Micro Cinema 4k to get a smaller camera for my BRAW workflow as my C camera.

I'm also a Nikon lens owner, so the Canon mount works against my current lens options. I'm still not sold on the Z6 + BM Video Assist for BRAW, but that may be what I end up going with for a lighter-weight gimbal camera that I can use with my P4Ks.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 8:08 pm

Saw the EVF and thought Yay!!, but then realised it is only for the 6K Pro! Massive mistake BMD.

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 8:10 pm

kevin_p wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:That is crop of 1.5 compared to full readout.


Are you sure?
6K (full sensor) = 1.558x crop
5.7K (windowed sensor) = 1.692x crop

I am thinking a 4k....will be around a 2k crop? Just wanted to confirm.


Seems my wording was a bit misleading. I meant it will crop at 1.5 compared to its own sensor in full 6k readout.

full 6k sensor = 23.10mm
full frame = 36mm

crop of PCC6k = 36 / 23.1 = 1.558

sensor pixel size = 23.1 / 6144 = 3.76µm

4k DCI sensor window = 4096 x 3.76µm = 15.4 mm

36 / 15.4 mm = 2.337x crop

could have calculated that easier by 1.558 x 6144 / 4096
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 8:28 pm

Steve Golding wrote:Saw the EVF and thought Yay!!, but then realised it is only for the 6K Pro! Massive mistake BMD.

Steve
Great price on a capable small viewfinder; it’s a great idea for the BMPCC6K Pro even though that camera already has a 1500 nit tilting screen that lessens the need for a separate viewfinder.

“Surely goodness and mercy” will prevail and they’ll make another version with a non-proprietary connector such as HDMI. Otherwise I share your disappointment. We want to be able to mount a viewfinder off the camera, not stuck on one camera exclusively.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 8:33 pm

I think that the main market for this camera is people who don't already own a Pocket 6K or 4K and are interested in purchasing a "cinema" camera. I don't see it as an upgrade camera, except for Pocket 4K owners who are considering a Pocket 6K anyway. I would think that most of the people in that category have already made the move.

If I'm right, the question is how attractive the Pocket 6K is, with these additional features, compared to recent alternatives.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 8:36 pm

i can see a third party possibly making a mount for the EVF to use on other cameras?
How is it powered?
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 8:38 pm

rick.lang wrote:Great price on a capable small viewfinder; it’s a great idea for the BMPCC6K Pro even though that camera already has a 1500 nit tilting screen that lessens the need for a separate viewfinder.

“Surely goodness and mercy” will prevail and they’ll make another version with a non-proprietary connector such as HDMI. Otherwise I share your disappointment. We want to be able to mount a viewfinder off the camera, not stuck on one camera exclusively.


I think that the attraction of the viewfinder is size and weight. Apart from that, it appears to be inferior in every way to the Portkeys L-EYE, which is 20% cheaper.

As you suggest, it's also unclear what the EVF adds to the 1500 nits tilting screen.
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Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 8:39 pm

Agree, it’s a very appealing mobile package (for those who don’t have the BMPCC4K or BMPCC6K) with the integrated ND filters, new viewfinder, and new grip.

I know pros use EF mount lenses, but I hope when they release their 8K Pro camera next that they take a big step and rethink what it means to have a Pro mount.
Last edited by rick.lang on Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 8:41 pm

No 4K 120 is disappointing
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 8:59 pm

the new 6k Pro has lots of things to like, i think for that price you get an incredible camera! Also dig the Viewfinder, wish it was universal.

But the Market in 2021 is different to the market 2 years ago. If you see what Sony has hammered out in the last 6 Months its impressive. I dont think Super35 Sensor and EF-Mount do cut it theese days. Many of my fellow Filmmaker-Friends have jumped ship, i may follow.

Hope that the new Firmware has some upgrades to the UM Pro G2. But since Grant didnt mention it....
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 9:00 pm

rick.lang wrote:I know pros use EF mount lenses ...
I don't know pros that use them, but I do recall hearing Grant uses them, and that's what's most important.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 9:07 pm

One thing's for sure, if the Pocket 6K Pro sells the value of used Pocket 6K cameras has just taken a significant hit. For a buyer, a tilting screen, built-in ND filters and pushing battery runtime to 60 minutes (claimed) have real value.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 9:17 pm

roger.magnusson wrote:Is there any reason it can't have the Blackmagic Raw scaling that the 12K has? Does that feature require a non-Bayer pattern sensor?


It's not jus the pattern, part of it is in how the sensor reads out the data. I'm guessing that BMD worked with its sensor partner and took advantage of a stacked design that puts the front-end image processing on the back of the sensor, so it's able to scale the image data essentially during readout. That would also explain how BMD was able to achieve such a high readout speed, since it's still reading out the whole sensor when recording high frame rates.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 9:29 pm

Steve Golding wrote:Saw the EVF and thought Yay!!, but then realised it is only for the 6K Pro! Massive mistake BMD.

Steve


We got to wait. Maybe some of our resident tech geniuses can find a workaround to use it with the other pockets.


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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 9:35 pm

robedge wrote:One thing's for sure, if the Pocket 6K Pro sells the value of used Pocket 6K cameras has just taken a significant hit. For a buyer, a tilting screen, built-in ND filters and pushing battery runtime to 60 minutes (claimed) have real value.


For sure. Maybe this also means the Red Komodo will take a hit.
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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 9:43 pm

pnguyen720 wrote:
robedge wrote:One thing's for sure, if the Pocket 6K Pro sells the value of used Pocket 6K cameras has just taken a significant hit. For a buyer, a tilting screen, built-in ND filters and pushing battery runtime to 60 minutes (claimed) have real value.


For sure. Maybe this also means the Red Komodo will take a hit.


What has the RED Komodo got to do with the impact of the Pocket 6K Pro on the value of used Pocket 6Ks? There's this concept called apples and oranges :)
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 9:49 pm

robedge wrote:One thing's for sure, if the Pocket 6K Pro sells the value of used Pocket 6K cameras has just taken a significant hit. For a buyer, a tilting screen, built-in ND filters and pushing battery runtime to 60 minutes (claimed) have real value.


Am I mis-remembering, or wasn't the original Pocket 6K priced at $2500 also? So BMD is I'm presuming lowering the price of the original model?

I agree; the upgrades were pretty significant in terms of user friendliness.

What I don't like as much is the form factor, especially with the add-on battery grip. I like the new features, but the "pocket" part no longer applies.

I have complete confidence in the image quality, though. BMD doesn't slack off in that department :)
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
Asus ZenBook Pro Duo i9 Octacore/32GB/2060

Alienware M15 Hexacore i7/32GB/1070 Max-Q
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 9:53 pm

robedge wrote:What has the RED Komodo got to do with the impact of the Pocket 6K Pro on the value of used Pocket 6Ks? There's this concept called apples and oranges :)


It's just another expression of the illogical yet persistent Red envy.
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
Asus ZenBook Pro Duo i9 Octacore/32GB/2060

Alienware M15 Hexacore i7/32GB/1070 Max-Q
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WahWay

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 9:54 pm

Having mix feelings. Underwhelmed it has kept the sensor from previous gen camera and not 8k and FF, no AF improvement and no IBIS. Welcome feature is internal ND and option for viewfinder. This is an update of the 6k not an upgrade in similar way the UMPro was with the original UM4.6k. Then you look at the price and you look at the competition with lot more bells and whistles. Will wait and see what else is actually improved?
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Kim Janson

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Re: Pocket 6K Pro

PostWed Feb 17, 2021 10:05 pm

The Pocket 6K Pro looks pretty awesome camera for the price point, improved on many areas over the Pocket 6K

- Battery and battery grip
- Buildin ND
- Bright screen
- EFV

And price not that much more than the pocket 6K Why would anyone by the old Pocket 6K?

There is just one thing on this camera that is ridiculous, the name of the camera :lol:
LeViteZer Smooths the movement, www.levitezer.com
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