P6kPro monitor issue

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WahWay

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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 2:01 pm

robedge wrote:
He says that all three of the demo units that CVP has are off. At 24:05:



I know, that why I said CVP confirm blue tint screen effect varies across different copies :roll:

None of the three they tested in that video was completely free of the issue but one was substantially worse than the other two.

Just out of interest do you have a Pocket 6k Pro and what was it you find with the blue tint screen many (but not all) are seeing?
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AntoineVZ

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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 2:15 pm

I received my new 6K PRO which the store exchanged for me. The screen still has a blue tendency but I feel a little less than my first ...
In any case the colorimetry of the evf and that of the screen do not correspond at all ...
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 2:27 pm

The main thing for me is that this tint isn’t in the actual footage and I thibk that’s what’s not clear to me yet...


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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 2:29 pm

No blue tint on the footage for me but I just shoot quickely test at home
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Lee Mackreath

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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 2:31 pm

Update from Matteo... thoughts?

Image


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Lee Mackreath

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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 2:32 pm

Image


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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 2:39 pm

WahWay wrote:
Just out of interest do you have a Pocket 6k Pro and what was it you find with the blue tint screen many (but not all) are seeing?


I may replace my Pocket 4K in the next year and will consider a new Blackmagic camera if one materialises, including any Pocket 4K Pro. I'm paying fairly close attention to this to learn what a Blackmagic rollout looks like and what kinds of issues can arise.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 2:47 pm

Someone got the following reply from BMD

"It is the nature of LCD screens that they do not always offer consistent colour and sometimes have a bias towards one particular colour. This can be more apparent when comparing different models of LCD screen.

We are looking at adding an option in camera to calibrate the LCD itself, so that it can be closer matched to other screens such as the Pro EVF but i am sorry to say i do not have a definitive timeline of when this will be implemented, but we are looking at this for the next software update for the camera"


An in camera calibration is something I've been pressing BMD to give us for almost a year ago to correct the Video Assist 12G HDR red/magenta screen cast. Lets hope this feature will be added to all their cameras including the BMPCC 4k, G2, UM12k and their Video Assist 12G and 3G.
Last edited by WahWay on Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 2:49 pm

Lee Mackreath wrote:Update from Matteo... thoughts?


This is a direct link to Bertoli's post to the Blackmagic User Facebook Group, and to discussion about the post: https://www.facebook.com/groups/8969003 ... 151962112/

Lee posted two of Bertoli's frame grabs, but there are nine of them, plus a side by side of his LCDs.

This is a private Facebook Group, so the link may only work if you are a member of the Group.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 3:11 pm

robedge wrote:
Lee Mackreath wrote:Update from Matteo... thoughts?


This is a direct link to Bertoli's post to the Blackmagic User Facebook Group, and to discussion about the post: https://www.facebook.com/groups/8969003 ... 151962112/

Lee posted two of Bertoli's frame grabs, but there are nine of them, plus a side by side of his LCDs.

This is a private Facebook Group, so the link may only work if you are a member of the Group.


OK, this is the link to Bertoli's YouTube Community page that Lee's screen captures above show: https://www.youtube.com/c/MatteobertoliMe/community

However, Bertoli's Facebook Group post has seven more frame grabs. But the Facebook post is now "unavailable". I don't know whether Bertoli deleted the post or whether it's a Facebook technical problem.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 3:22 pm

WahWay wrote:
I know, that why I said CVP confirm blue tint screen effect varies across different copies :roll:

None of the three they tested in that video was completely free of the issue but one was substantially worse than the other two.



If CVP is right that cameras have to be sent in to address this, it has the makings of what is effectively a large recall.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 3:23 pm

robedge wrote:
WahWay wrote:
I know, that why I said CVP confirm blue tint screen effect varies across different copies :roll:

None of the three they tested in that video was completely free of the issue but one was substantially worse than the other two.



If CVP is right that cameras have to be sent in to address this, it has the makings of what is effectively a large recall.
I can live with a tint on my screen.. but not in my footage


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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 3:24 pm

This reminds me of the blooming orb issue I had with the og bmpcc 8 bloody years ago!!!


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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 3:39 pm

robedge wrote:
robedge wrote:
Lee Mackreath wrote:Update from Matteo... thoughts?


This is a direct link to Bertoli's post to the Blackmagic User Facebook Group, and to discussion about the post: https://www.facebook.com/groups/8969003 ... 151962112/

Lee posted two of Bertoli's frame grabs, but there are nine of them, plus a side by side of his LCDs.

This is a private Facebook Group, so the link may only work if you are a member of the Group.


OK, this is the link to Bertoli's YouTube Community page that Lee's screen captures above show: https://www.youtube.com/c/MatteobertoliMe/community

However, Bertoli's Facebook Group post has seven more frame grabs. But the Facebook post is now "unavailable". I don't know whether Bertoli deleted the post or whether it's a Facebook technical problem.


Bertoli says that he's returning the two 6K Pros that he bought, per this exchange with Lee on his YouTube Community page (link above):

bertoli.jpeg
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 3:46 pm

robedge wrote:
WahWay wrote:
I know, that why I said CVP confirm blue tint screen effect varies across different copies :roll:

None of the three they tested in that video was completely free of the issue but one was substantially worse than the other two.



If CVP is right that cameras have to be sent in to address this, it has the makings of what is effectively a large recall.


Not likely. If you read my post above, in their reply to a customer BMD is going to add in camera calibration.
You won't have anything to worry when you get your camera as this will all come to pass.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 3:48 pm

Yeah he clearly not happy.... if there is an issue with the qc of the internal nds them there’s going to need to be a mass recall... nightmare!!


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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 3:52 pm

Clearly there is two seperate issues rolled into this thread which deals with monitor issue.
The internal ND colour shift is a seperate issue from the blue tint monitor problem. Appreciate if they are not mistaken as all the same.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 3:54 pm

WahWay wrote:
robedge wrote:
If CVP is right that cameras have to be sent in to address [the LCD issue], it has the makings of what is effectively a large recall.


Not likely. If you read my post above, in their reply to a customer BMD is going to add in camera calibration.
You won't have anything to worry when you get your camera as this will all come to pass.


Hopefully you're right and CVP is wrong.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 3:57 pm

robedge wrote:
WahWay wrote:
robedge wrote:
If CVP is right that cameras have to be sent in to address this, it has the makings of what is effectively a large recall.


Not likely. If you read my post above, in their reply to a customer BMD is going to add in camera calibration.
You won't have anything to worry when you get your camera as this will all come to pass.


Hopefully you're right and CVP is wrong.


Don't quote me I don't work for them, quote what BMD said to a customer. All we have to do is waite for the firmware.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 4:12 pm

Matteo Bertoli has updated his YouTube Community page post to explain his decision to keep his original 6K and return the two 6K Pros:

bertoli 2.jpeg
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Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOYko5 ... /community
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 4:25 pm

I am not sure what to make from Bertoli's posting.

I am using (for my UM46k) a set of 4x5.25" Platinum IRND from Schneider Kreuznach which cost me ~$500 each and each of them will shift colors slightly. Only my Rhodium FSNDs don't do that - and they are even more expensive. I am used to adjust the WB for each ND in use.

I really wish people would post less drama and more footage to judge yourself or do your own tests.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 4:28 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:I am not sure what to make from Bertoli's posting.

I am using (for my UM46k) a set of 4x5.25" Platinum IRND from Schneider Kreuznach which cost me ~$500 each and each of them will shift colors slightly. Only my Rhodium FSNDs don't do that - and they are even more expensive. I am used to adjust the WB for each ND in use.

I really wish people would post less drama and more footage to judge yourself or do your own tests.
Yeah I am starting to think that this might be a fuss over things that the majority of people wouldn’t notice..

I think we all know there is an issue with the lcd.. but with the footage I think it’s people being over fussy with colour shifts at nd 6... which is something I will not use here in Scotland!


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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 4:52 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:I am not sure what to make from Bertoli's posting.

I really wish people would post less drama and more footage to judge yourself or do your own tests.


He makes a point of saying what his ND expectations are and that the 6K Pro, at the moment, doesn't meet them. He also said specifically that what is an issue for him "is probably acceptable for most people". Pretty simple, not rocket science.

He was making a personal decision, he made one and he's explained it. Pity he can't do that without being accused of dramatisation. Maybe that kind of chippy shot will win you points with some people on this little forum, but it won't elsewhere.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 5:18 pm

I wonder. Referring to the effect of the Pro's ND as "insane" and "just terrible" for (6 stops) might be regarded as overly dramatic, even when later qualified as "acceptable for most people".

As for his own claims that certain NDs "elevate my image to another level", it's best to remember, even on "little" forums like this one, and among "some people" that he's on youtube and his audience is consumers ill-equipped to assess his claims. When he holds forth for ASC or AIC members, we can revisit the size of this forum.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 6:01 pm

I see internal NDs for emergency use and shooting at an event were I have no control of lightings while capturing spontaneously. I don't expect internal NDs is going to replace $500 a piece external NDs housed in a matta box. The 2 stops between each filtration is a clue. Who cares if a company calls their camera a "Pro". Afterall it could not perform voodoo "blackmagic" so do I take it back for not living up to its name? :lol:
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 6:03 pm

John Paines wrote:I wonder. Referring to the effect of the Pro's ND as "insane" and "just terrible" for (6 stops) might be regarded as overly dramatic, even when later qualified as "acceptable for most people".

As for his own claims that certain NDs "elevate my image to another level", it's best to remember, even on "little" forums like this one, and among "some people" that he's on youtube and his audience is consumers ill-equipped to assess his claims. When he holds forth for ASC or AIC members, we can revisit the size of this forum.


Got to say looking at his photos, which are screen grabs of reposts, they look to be about the same amount of shift you get with a lot of ND filters.

If that's the language used, then the language is hyperbolic at best, and even worse, unqualified.

Here's some Tiffen filters performing badly
https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnbrawl ... 3844822085

and Arri's own internal ND's also aren't perfect either...
https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2017/ ... d-filters/

There's always some shift in ND's, especially at deeper stops That on top of slight sensor to sensor copy variation confused with inconsistent IR testing methodologies and throw in an unrelated issue to do with the colour calibration of the screen and you get a lot of FUD.

Is it WORSE than any other ND shift ? Is anyone doing a test with other ND filters or just comparing screen shots using ONLY the internal ND filters ?

I mean we're here discussing a totally different issue (ND's) in a thread about monitoring issues...

JB
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 6:12 pm

John Brawley wrote:I mean we're here discussing a totally different issue (ND's) in a thread about monitoring issues...


Rightly or wrongly, discussion about the ND issue as well started at least a page ago.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 6:16 pm

I actually think now there isn’t a specific issue at all bar the lcd screen colour shift which doesn’t affect the final image at all and will probably be fixed by firmware..

Any other issues are based on opinion on quality


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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 6:29 pm

Lee Mackreath wrote:I actually think now there isn’t a specific issue at all bar the lcd screen colour shift which doesn’t affect the final image at all and will probably be fixed by firmware..

Any other issues are based on opinion on quality


Arri FSND's are some of the best I've tested. It's the same ND's that they use internally. And even then there are still variations as I pointed out above. You can see it in the video.

They have an interesting comparison here. Check out @ 1:22. (the green one is the Tiffen for sure)
https://www.arri.com/en/camera-systems/ ... snd-filter

I personally own LEE's/ Panavision ProGlass filters, which are similar performing to the Arri FSND.

Mitomo TRUE ND, Lee, Arri FSND are all in the top tier.

Here's another great example of how inconsistent ND's can still be.. Also worth reading his text in the Vimeo link.


JB
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 6:33 pm

Lee Mackreath wrote:I actually think now there isn’t a specific issue at all bar the lcd screen colour shift which doesn’t affect the final image at all and will probably be fixed by firmware...


As the CVP video that Simon Chan posted says, CVP thinks that the LCD problem is likely to affect the final image if one is shooting ProRes, and it thinks that addressing the problem will require sending in the camera. That's just CVP's opinion. Whether they are right or wrong remains to be seen. Obviously, it would be best if the problem can be fixed in firmware.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 6:44 pm

robedge wrote:
Lee Mackreath wrote:I actually think now there isn’t a specific issue at all bar the lcd screen colour shift which doesn’t affect the final image at all and will probably be fixed by firmware...


As the CVP video that Simon Chan posted says, CVP thinks that the LCD problem is likely to affect the final image if one is shooting ProRes, and it thinks that addressing the problem will require sending in the camera. That's just CVP's opinion. Whether they are right or wrong remains to be seen. Obviously, it would be best if the problem can be fixed in firmware.


I think he was referring to the fact that the tint of the screen would cause someone to set WB to look "correct" on the screen instead of setting it properly. So, the screen won't cause an impact on the image if WB is set properly as opposed to judging it by how the monitor looks. If the monitor calibration is a firmware thing, there's no need to send it in.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 6:51 pm

robedge wrote:
Lee Mackreath wrote:I actually think now there isn’t a specific issue at all bar the lcd screen colour shift which doesn’t affect the final image at all and will probably be fixed by firmware...


As the CVP video that Simon Chan posted says, CVP thinks that the LCD problem is likely to affect the final image if one is shooting ProRes, and it thinks that addressing the problem will require sending in the camera. That's just CVP's opinion. Whether they are right or wrong remains to be seen. Obviously, it would be best if the problem can be fixed in firmware.


Rob, since you have not bought a Pocket 6k Pro yet you seem to get so agitated by this :roll:
Spare a thought for those who bought the camera and living with the problem first hand. If it turns out all is well with a firmware fix then you might consider committing to purchase one. If it all goes pear shaped then you got away with it and move on. You are splitting your spleen over something you invested nothing on.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 6:58 pm

robedge wrote:

What happened to your claim to be befuddled at what he said? You don't even know what he did. For one thing, he didn't post two captures, he posted 11.

You're right, he has more influence than you do, indeed more influence than most of the self-professed experts on this forum put together.

Lord knows why you people think that slagging off filmmakers who publish videos on YouTube, and/or people who watch them, advances your agenda.

Jealous much?


Are you in an engagement with him or why are defending him in such a strange way? You seem emotionally invested here with your own agenda.
I think I have raised some valid questions which haven't been addressed.

And while you might think everything is revolving around US territory, there are other countries on this planet too. And you have no knowledge of others people influence in other countries.
Last edited by Robert Niessner on Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 6:59 pm

robedge wrote:You're right, he has more influence than you do, indeed more influence than most of the self-professed experts on this forum put together.

Lord knows why you people think that slagging off filmmakers who publish videos on YouTube, and/or people who watch them, advances your agenda.

Jealous much?


His filmmaking, good, bad, insane or terrible, is not at issue. His methods, his testing and his conclusions are.

Granted, it's the deepest desire of Americans to be on TV but, believe it or not, that ambition is not universal, either in the U.S. or the world at large (I'm thinking Austria?). It's easy to be jealous in the movie business, but most frustrated aspirants wouldn't start with his youtube channel or his body of work.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 7:06 pm

WahWay wrote:
robedge wrote:
As the CVP video that Simon Chan posted says, CVP thinks that the LCD problem is likely to affect the final image if one is shooting ProRes, and it thinks that addressing the problem will require sending in the camera. That's just CVP's opinion. Whether they are right or wrong remains to be seen. Obviously, it would be best if the problem can be fixed in firmware.


Rob, since you have not bought a Pocket 6k Pro yet you seem to get so agitated by this :roll:
Spare a thought for those who bought the camera and living with the problem first hand. If it turns out all is well with a firmware fix then you might consider committing to purchase one. If it all goes pear shaped then you got away with it and move on. You are splitting your spleen over something you invested nothing on.


I think that you have to own the camera and be pretty sensitive about it to characterise the post that you just quoted as "agitated". You're the guy who directed everyone to CVP's comments on the problem, and I consciously tried to make the post reserved and balanced :)

As I told you earlier, I'm looking at replacing my Pocket 4K and I'm following this closely both with respect to the 6K Pro and to get a sense of what to expect from a Blackmagic rollout.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 7:33 pm

Hey, I see a war, I jump in !

First post here. I am a complete beginner ! I had - shortly - a Pocket 4K, and I recently bought the 6K Pro.

I did some testing (thanks to the nice and detailed explanations of Marc Jungbluth, and my vectorscope is really not at all moving from the center on clear and ND 2. On ND 4, it goes blue a bit, and a bit more with the ND 6. My monitor is great, but not like calibrated weekly, and I could not notice the shift without the "maths" of Da Vinci. So, for me, censor is ok, and nds are ok.

Are the internal NDs as good as 1000+ euros/dollars ND filters you put in a matte box ? I can't tell, once again, I am a noob, and I never used some.

Are the internal NDs as good as a 200 euros variable ND filter ? From my experience, the internal NDs of MY Pocket 6 pro are way way better, and have less color shifting.


About the tint of the LCD screen, this is a pointless conversation on my camera. The screen is blue, no matter the setting, no matter what I do, it is blue as ****. I have mixed feeling about it.

In one hand, I don't trust my eyes, nor my lcd screen, not my MBP screen. I don't know much about grading, but I have been told to trust the numbers when you want accuracy. When people say "you could be mislead by setting your WB from the screen", I am a bit surprised, cause I would never do that. There are not much values to learn, and when you are outside in a bright day, well, I would go with 5600 k, no matter what my eyes see on the monitor. Plus, on my camera, the AWB works well, I did some tests in the dark, with a 2700 k bulb, and the camera detects it.

That being say, even if I don't NEED the monitor temperature to be accurate, I don't appreciate if BMD simply says "it's a monitor, deal with it". So if they are not able to provide a solution for that, it would still be - in my opinion - a huge deception.


In short : My Camera seems to shoot pretty accurate white with and without NDs, I don't expect my internal NDs to be as good as top quality pro ND filters, and my LCD screen is as blue as a smurf.

And I love Matteo Bertoli, he thought me so much about film making, that doesn't mean I am going to throw my P6K pro because his as problems.
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Lee Mackreath

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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 7:45 pm

From my personal perspective I am getting the pro on Monday and will judge my unit on its own merits.. I have a 4K and know what to expect but at the same time I am a hobbyist that doesn’t rely on this camera to pay my mortgage.. my summary from all these findings so far is that I personally will love the camera and not notice much the colour shifts and never will ...the people I do work for (friend and friends Of friends for wedding etc).. I am getting the camera as an upgrade to the 4K, For the bright movevable lcd screen, better battery and 4K braw. I will be very disappointed if the internal nd’s are unuseable but it’s not the end of the world for me to use external ones if I had to.


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John Brawley

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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 7:50 pm

Lee Mackreath wrote:From my personal perspective I am getting the pro on Monday and will judge my unit on its own merits.. I have a 4K and know what to expect but at the same time I am a hobbyist that doesn’t rely on this camera to pay my mortgage.. my summary from all these findings so far is that I personally will love the camera and not notice much the colour shifts and never will ...the people I do work for (friend and friends Of friends for wedding etc).. I am getting the camera as an upgrade to the 4K, For the bright movevable lcd screen, better battery and 4K braw. I will be very disappointed if the internal nd’s are unuseable but it’s not the end of the world for me to use external ones if I had to.


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Please do share your thoughts.

If you do any tests don’t forgot to compare the internal NDs to whatever NDs you use now.

Don’t forget shutter speed works well to modify exposure for comparing colour shifts.

JB
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Lee Mackreath

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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 8:03 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Lee Mackreath wrote:From my personal perspective I am getting the pro on Monday and will judge my unit on its own merits.. I have a 4K and know what to expect but at the same time I am a hobbyist that doesn’t rely on this camera to pay my mortgage.. my summary from all these findings so far is that I personally will love the camera and not notice much the colour shifts and never will ...the people I do work for (friend and friends Of friends for wedding etc).. I am getting the camera as an upgrade to the 4K, For the bright movevable lcd screen, better battery and 4K braw. I will be very disappointed if the internal nd’s are unuseable but it’s not the end of the world for me to use external ones if I had to.


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Please do share your thoughts.

If you do any tests don’t forgot to compare the internal NDs to whatever NDs you use now.

Don’t forget shutter speed works well to modify exposure for comparing colour shifts.

JB
Thanks John appreciate your feedback.. I do have some external NiSi IRNDs I can use in place for the internal ones so happy to do any tests anyone wants me to do..normally shoot 180 shutter and use nds and aperture to control exposure but can test whatever required...


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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 8:40 pm

robedge wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:I am not sure what to make from Bertoli's posting.

I really wish people would post less drama and more footage to judge yourself or do your own tests.


He makes a point of saying what his ND expectations are and that the 6K Pro, at the moment, doesn't meet them. He also said specifically that what is an issue for him "is probably acceptable for most people". Pretty simple, not rocket science.

He was making a personal decision, he made one and he's explained it. Pity he can't do that without being accused of dramatisation. Maybe that kind of chippy shot will win you points with some people on this little forum, but it won't elsewhere.


Totally agree... I've just joined this forum and its clear to see who the gatekeepers are. Everyone is entitled to receive what the marketing campaign promised. I don't see how expecting that can be dramatic!.

To add... I have sent my pro back and rejected a replacement as its obvious this batch of cameras are not ready for prime time. My OG 6K which is now sold was golden.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 8:52 pm

Lee Mackreath wrote:
Thanks John appreciate your feedback.. I do have some external NiSi IRNDs I can use in place for the internal ones so happy to do any tests anyone wants me to do..normally shoot 180 shutter and use nds and aperture to control exposure but can test whatever required...



If you were testing you would do the following....

Set up a "test" scenario in an environment you can control. AKA a studio. Create a scene that has skin tone references (a human) but also anything you might want to use for colour and for IR solution (synthetic blacks work well)

Use lighting that generates a lot of IR like Tungsten light. Use a lot of it so you can test all the ND variations.

When shooting clear (which will be very bright) use shutter speed to attenuate the light for exposure. Changing aperture can affect the colour response.

Test the equivalent NISI filters at the same time.

Let us know what you learn !

JB
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Ryan Earl

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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 9:13 pm

John Brawley wrote:Test the equivalent NISI filters at the same time.


Lee Mackreath wrote:normally shoot 180 shutter and use nds and aperture to control exposure but can test whatever required...



Maybe results can be in a separate thread?

Lee, if you can publish the BRAW or DNGs along with your screen shots or exports, it will give viewers a chance to look at what changes need to be made, however small or great, to the white balance and tint to correct the images after the ND was applied.
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Note Suwanchote

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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 11:26 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:I am not sure what to make from Bertoli's posting.

I am using (for my UM46k) a set of 4x5.25" Platinum IRND from Schneider Kreuznach which cost me ~$500 each and each of them will shift colors slightly. Only my Rhodium FSNDs don't do that - and they are even more expensive. I am used to adjust the WB for each ND in use.

I really wish people would post less drama and more footage to judge yourself or do your own tests.

I agree with you on this.
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John Brawley

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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSat Mar 13, 2021 11:29 pm

Note Suwanchote wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:I am not sure what to make from Bertoli's posting.

I am using (for my UM46k) a set of 4x5.25" Platinum IRND from Schneider Kreuznach which cost me ~$500 each and each of them will shift colors slightly. Only my Rhodium FSNDs don't do that - and they are even more expensive. I am used to adjust the WB for each ND in use.

I really wish people would post less drama and more footage to judge yourself or do your own tests.

I agree with you on this.


Indeed. A lot of people posting opinions of others and not a lot of first hand experience.

JB
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CaptainHook

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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSun Mar 14, 2021 8:30 am

Lets leave the personal stuff out please.
**Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostSun Mar 14, 2021 9:13 am

All my other BMD cameras and video assists has been a sorry mess of colour casts, mostly green and one red/magenta. My Pocket 6K Pro is the only one with a perfect colour balance but going by reports from other owners I might be the few exceptions.
If you do have a copy were the screen is pefect its very easy to judge the colour shift caused by the internal NDs just by looking at the camera HDR screen without having to load the file into post. I find it equal to my grading monitor albeit a lot smaller.
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UserOS

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6K Pro Blue Tint Monitor

PostSun Mar 14, 2021 10:40 pm

Image

Why is the monitor showing wrong?

The external monitor has the correct color. The files have the correct color. The color is not correct on the camera monitor. If you make camera settings using the camera monitor, the color in the video files becomes incorrect.

When will this be corrected?

link to video

Thank in advance.
Oleg
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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: 6K Pro Blue Tint Monitor

PostMon Mar 15, 2021 3:20 am

UserOS wrote: If you make camera settings using the camera monitor, the color in the video files becomes incorrect.
No one should be setting white balance based on any camera LCD, whether from BMD or any other camera manufacturer. Even on the most expensive cameras you can buy, the LCDs aren't designed as a color reference.
All the current BMD camera models, including the 6K Pocket Pro, have a super simple and effective auto white balance calibration that can be set on a gray card. I carry this handy one in my back pocket. Also useful to set exposure. It's less than 8 bucks on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HT9MA1W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4601572/
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Re: 6K Pro Blue Tint Monitor

PostMon Mar 15, 2021 3:45 pm

Jamie LeJeune wrote:
UserOS wrote: If you make camera settings using the camera monitor, the color in the video files becomes incorrect.
No one should be setting white balance based on any camera LCD, whether from BMD or any other camera manufacturer. Even on the most expensive cameras you can buy, the LCDs aren't designed as a color reference.
All the current BMD camera models, including the 6K Pocket Pro, have a super simple and effective auto white balance calibration that can be set on a gray card. I carry this handy one in my back pocket. Also useful to set exposure. It's less than 8 bucks on Amazon:



Do you actually have the 6k pro version though?

You can't bypass this blue tint using simple white balance settings. It is a clear defect that was not in the original 6k. The 6k had a perfectly fine lcd so I don't see any reason to claim that others shouldn't be holding the pro to the same standards.
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Re: P6kPro monitor issue

PostMon Mar 15, 2021 6:28 pm

I own multiple Blackmagic cameras and just bought a 6k Pro... I'd heard about the blue cast but thought it was probably a bit of overreaction, as things tend to be blown out of proportion on the internet... right?

I almost burst out laughing when I turned it on. The screen literally looks like it has a sheet of cyan film over the top. I couldn't believe it. It is an absolute mess. Basically, if you haven't had first hand experience of it you wouldn't believe it.... how this got through QC I don't know. Blackmagic have had some clangers, but this is doing them absolutely no favours. And this is coming from a real fan - we shoot all our stuff on them, and I love the company and its products.

If the reported firmware fix doesn't work wonders then we've got a bit of a disaster on our hands. And how will it when everyone seems to have a different degree of problem?

On the plus side I tested the internal ND against the set of Firecrest IRND I own, and it looks like there's a marginal difference but nothing too extreme that can't be dealt with in grade. If you want to see dramatic colour shift try the 8 stop Firecrest.

Will test them properly against a proper tungsten scene in coming days to confirm.
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