Blackmagic Forum

Thanks Ryan, you stated exactly the concern.

I had it connected to my Atomos Shogun Inferno as reference and detect no difference in blue or green tint. The only difference is the HDR screen seems to create extra lift and brightness on the Pocket 6k Pro and had to be turned down. If your other monitor is not HDR its going to look different to the Pocket 6k Pro. However there is no blue tint or cooler temperature. I'm not saying other people are not having the blue tint problems. I think QC is all over the place and there is problem with batches. I know because I have cameras and VA from BMD that is either green or red cast.

WahWay wrote:

Robert Niessner wrote:Would you mind testing out my LBK-neutral LUT I made for Gen 5 for the UMP12k?
You can find it here:
viewtopic.php?p=693224#p693224

I am curious how it works out with the new monitor and the PCC6k Pro's Gen 5 color science.

I can load it into the camera, its on the Luts menu but cant select it.

Ok, that seems to be the same bug as with the inability to load presets.
Guess this will be addressed with the next firmware update too.

Hope you can test it out then.

I was wondering if Blackmagic could implement proper monitor calibration tools so we could calibrate it ourselves with color bars. I am glad that Blackmagic acknowledged the problem here on the forum and that they will provide a fix, but in the end I feel this could be a great opportunity to implement color bars, contrast, brightness and saturation controls in the firmware if this is technically possible (I do not see any reason why it shouldn't). Having color bars would be greatly appreciated for setting a consistent brightness when changing from outdoor to indoor locations and make sure that exposure is consistent when exposing by the screen.

Anyway, I am so glad for this brighter screen, it's really godsent. Let's hope they are able to fix that tint in a timely manner and perhaps even give user calibration tools.

Don't forget too that this is the menu interface screen.

It's of course used for framing and composition, but it's PRIMARY purpose is to be a touch screen for your camera to change settings.

A touch screen limits the number of vendors and the specifications you can have for this kind of precision. Not to mention the fingerprints.

If you want a precision colour accurate calibrate-able monitor you can easily spend more than the camera and get one that you can use externally. They're already out there and available.

JB

John Brawley wrote:Don't forget too that this is the menu interface screen.

It's of course used for framing and composition, but it's PRIMARY purpose is to be a touch screen for your camera to change settings.

A touch screen limits the number of vendors and the specifications you can have for this kind of precision. Not to mention the fingerprints.

If you want a precision colour accurate calibrate-able monitor you can easily spend more than the camera and get one that you can use externally. They're already out there and available.

JB

This is an especially good point. And it helps to remember the context of shooting in BRAW: you're going to be nudging color values around anyway in post. Seeing/nailing critical color on-set using the built-in touchscreen, is sort of a waste of time/relevance...

Part or an email response I received last week.

"It is the nature of LCD screens that they do not always offer consistent colour and sometimes have a bias towards one particular colour. This can be more apparent when comparing different models of LCD screen.

It is possible to add a LUT to the built in display of the Pocket Cinema Cameras so that you correct for any colour bias on your individual LCD screen.

Our development team is aware of this already and are looking into adding a calibration feature for the LCD's, this is not yet confirmed and if it is confirmed it would arrive in the form of a firmware update. Knowing this we will not be returning PCC6K Pro's based on a light blue tint on the LCD, these are reference monitors and are not supposed to be 100% colour accurate without an official calibration using a monitor probe."

Hopefully this along with a few other bugs /WB/Lut loading shall be quickly resolved as I'm already regretting selling my 6k original.

This is a totally mute point. No ones asking for a reference monitor I’m certainly not. It was a touch screen on previous models with no blue tint so what’s the reasons for that?

Tom Roper wrote:Brianlah87 said in this topic that he tried two, both had the blue tint problem. If BMD is going to offer a firmware fix it will be because all units have the problem. If they don’t, it means a crapshoot buy. Does anyone else have a perfect monitor?

We tried 2 copies from the same dealer (probably same manufacturing batch) so if someone else has a copy with no blue tint, maybe it's only an issue with certain production runs.

Also, for anyone who hasn't seen it in person, the tint is very very obvious - this is not some minor color shift that your eye can get used to. It's bad enough that if you were to adjust tint/white balance by eye from the display, your image would actually be way way off in post. At this point my colleague won't trust the internal LCD for actual work, and we're back to having to mount an LCD on the camera for the time being.

We contacted BMD Asia support on the 28th of Feb (we're in Malaysia), and their reply was this:

Hi,
BMPCC 6K Pro is a HDR LCD, it is expected to be slightly different from other Blackmagic cameras .

We are aware of the slight blue tint and ts is expected. We will keep monitoring if that is an issue and see if that can be improve in firmware update.
At this moment, nothing we can do.

Followed by a link to the now removed youtube video, and a suggestion to try white balancing.

Same problem here. I am in France, I had my 6K PRO Thursday and impossible to save my presets and impossible to use a lut other than those already established ...
But the worst is indeed the screen with this bluish tint .... I have the EVF which I find very good (even if not bright enough for my taste) which fortunately allows to have a correct colorimetric feedback.
I am therefore reassured not to be the only one, I hope that BlackMagic will react quickly to correct this ...

Someone posted his Pocket 6k Pro has no blue tint problem

This is my video. During the unboxing, I did not notice any issues with the screen. I revisited it this morning and can confirm that also the screen of my P6K Pro has a blue color cast and I also can not activate importet LUTs.

same problem on my bmpcc6k pro received today (in Italy)

I did not have a direct response from Blackmagic but through my store they told me to bring them back normally for an exchange (but they are also waiting for the official instructions from Blackmagic France)
I'm waiting for more info tomorrow ...

Blackmagic has already officially addressed these issues and said that they are working on a solution in an upcoming firmware update.

Is this statement available somewhere online?

Definitely have a screen thats too cool as well. Not sure how that is something they will fix via firmware update, but hoping they put out a fix sooner rather than later along with bug fixes for the LUT situation.

There was a firmware update released today for the Video Assist that includes improved screen calibration. So, perhaps it will be something similar used for the 6K Pocket Pro LCD.

Interesting Jamie! Anyone with a VA here already tested this out? Does it allow for any kind of manual adjustments or perhaps even color bars? One can dream haha.

Paul, I went through all options on the BMVA12G7 and didn’t notice any changes or additions of new features. But it did correct the difference in colour between my Video Assist and the BMPCC4K!

Thanks Rick, appreciate the feedback!

mekkes82 wrote:Is this statement available somewhere online?

Yeah. In this thread you are reading now on page 1
Here it is:
viewtopic.php?p=733685#p733685

I contacted BMD customer service and unfortunately they replied that a solution to the blue tint will only be via software. I wonder if there are others bmpcc6k pro without this problem because at this point I would like to give mine back in exchange for one that works properly.

tomlight wrote:I contacted BMD customer service and unfortunately they replied that a solution to the blue tint will only be via software. I wonder if there are others bmpcc6k pro without this problem because at this point I would like to give mine back in exchange for one that works properly.

I brought mine back for a trade yesterday Wednesday. I must receive the new one tomorrow Friday or Monday at the latest. I'll keep you informed

Same problem here, new 6k Pro is definitely blue on the LCD.

I put it next to my Ursa G2 and a Pocket 4k and those two more or less match (although I find them to be a little on the warm side and greenish when compared to my TV Logic monitors).
John, I do see your point, however I want to be using the 6k Pro on a gimbal as B-cam and was definitely not planning on adding another monitor to that setup. In fact the new tilt functions and higher brightness were some of the reasons why I upgraded from the 4k in the first place (and internal NDs of course). I really hope this screen calibration feature mentioned earlier is coming to the camera.

The other issue were I can't load LUTs once I uploaded them to the camera is annoying too.
With the software present on the camera right now I'm not confident to use it on set next week and I will be sticking with the 4k for now and until I tested my unit in depth.

I follow Matteo Bertoli on YouTube (creator of buttery lut) and he has worrying reports about the colour shifts he and his colleagues are seeing in their actual footage magnet and blue shifts , differing depending also on what camera they were looking at. (See below post from YouTube)

From Matteos point of view this is hardware issue that can’t be fixed with any firmware update.. which is really making me now have second thoughts about my order...

Don’t know if this issue is present to some degree in all pro models, and people are just not noticing it or it’s just certain batches?? Seems to also get worse with the internal
Nds but is bad just wish the clear filter also???




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It seems like there a couple different issues that it's hard to tell what can be fixed via firmware vs hardware.

For example, my 6k pro has the blue color shift issue on the monitor, but not the EVF. The colors I see in the EVF are the actual colors that come out in post, not the monitor.

That leads me to believe that there's an issue with the monitor only, since the colors in post look fine to me.

But I also see people having issue with the actual color that they see in post as well? If so, not sure what can be fixed via firmware vs hardware.

Guess we'll see....

tomlight wrote:I contacted BMD customer service and unfortunately they replied that a solution to the blue tint will only be via software. I wonder if there are others bmpcc6k pro without this problem because at this point I would like to give mine back in exchange for one that works properly.

I'm fairly sure my Pocket 6k Pro doesn't have the blue tint problem. The LCD may have a very slight greenish tinge but nothing too extreme and certainly nothing like what this guy is saying his screen is like:


It's also not on the footage itself.

I am a little bit nervous about this firmware update in case it makes things worse (since mine doesn't really have this problem). However, there are a few other little bugs, such as the presets not working. Not being able to delete presets etc...

Also, regarding the files, the timestamp on the file differs from the time in the file name. If you look at the attached screenshot you can see that the file I've highlighted says it was created at 09:10 but it was actually 17:10. The time stamp in the file name is actually correct 03071710 - i.e. 17.10 on 7 March.

Matthew_Lawrence wrote: Also, regarding the files, the timestamp on the file differs from the time in the file name. If you look at the attached screenshot you can see that the file I've highlighted says it was created at 09:10 but it was actually 17:10. The time stamp in the file name is actually correct 03071710 - i.e. 17.10 on 7 March.

Check the GMT offset in your camera settings. That's likely the source of the discrepancy.

Lee Mackreath wrote:I follow Matteo Bertoli on YouTube (creator of buttery lut) and he has worrying reports about the colour shifts he and his colleagues are seeing in their actual footage magnet and blue shifts , differing depending also on what camera they were looking at. (See below post from YouTube)

From Matteos point of view this is hardware issue that can’t be fixed with any firmware update.. which is really making me now have second thoughts about my order...

Don’t know if this issue is present to some degree in all pro models, and people are just not noticing it or it’s just certain batches?? Seems to also get worse with the internal
Nds but is bad just wish the clear filter also???

I don't think there are "worrying" or "insane" shifts in the footage as you vary the ND on the 6K Pro. I don't think this test used the same aperture on the lens between the two images. If you vary the aperture or exposure the color will shift enough to invalidate the test.

If you fix the aperture at 2.8 for example, and set ISO of 400 for both images, then increase ND and match the exposure by changing the shutter, you'll get a better idea of the color shift that the NDs could cause.

Lee Mackreath wrote:I follow Matteo Bertoli on YouTube... (See below post from YouTube)
...

Where on YouTube did Matteo Bertoli say that? I can't find it on his own channel.

Sounds like he's going to do his own side by side tests tomorrow.

Ryan Earl wrote: I don't think there are "worrying" or "insane" shifts in the footage as you vary the ND on the 6K Pro. I don't think this test used the same aperture on the lens between the two images. If you vary the aperture or exposure the color will shift enough to invalidate the test.

If you fix the aperture at 2.8 for example, and set ISO of 400 for both images, then increase ND and match the exposure by changing the shutter, you'll get a better idea of the color shift that the NDs could cause.

I agree. A couple random screenshots on Facebook is just useless noise. Unless they share the source BRAW *and* also provide clear information about exactly how the shots were captured, no useful conclusion can be drawn from it.

I have the 12K UMP, the original 6K, and the 6K Pro here at the moment. I haven't noticed anything unexpected or "worrying" with the images coming out of the 6K Pro. Doesn't say anything about the units that others have received, of course. All I can say with confidence is that unit I've got is capturing images that appear to be normal on my calibrated reference display.

Jamie LeJeune wrote:Check the GMT offset in your camera settings. That's likely the source of the discrepancy.

Yes, that's what it was. User error . Thanks for your help.

robedge wrote:

Lee Mackreath wrote:I follow Matteo Bertoli on YouTube... (See below post from YouTube)
...

Where on YouTube did Matteo Bertoli say that? I can't find it on his own channel.

Sounds like he's going to do his own side by side tests tomorrow.

It’s on my feed when I go into the YouTube app.

He knows his stuff and has been using the 4K and 6k for sometime, and has been a real advocate of the cameras over the years. He is not on me for click bait and he is an experienced dp so I do believe he knows what he is seeing isn’t right and it’s not about apertures or filtration.. let’s see what his video shows soon!


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Ryan Earl wrote:

Lee Mackreath wrote:I follow Matteo Bertoli on YouTube (creator of buttery lut) and he has worrying reports about the colour shifts he and his colleagues are seeing in their actual footage magnet and blue shifts , differing depending also on what camera they were looking at. (See below post from YouTube)

From Matteos point of view this is hardware issue that can’t be fixed with any firmware update.. which is really making me now have second thoughts about my order...

Don’t know if this issue is present to some degree in all pro models, and people are just not noticing it or it’s just certain batches?? Seems to also get worse with the internal
Nds but is bad just wish the clear filter also???

I don't think there are "worrying" or "insane" shifts in the footage as you vary the ND on the 6K Pro. I don't think this test used the same aperture on the lens between the two images. If you vary the aperture or exposure the color will shift enough to invalidate the test.

If you fix the aperture at 2.8 for example, and set ISO of 400 for both images, then increase ND and match the exposure by changing the shutter, you'll get a better idea of the color shift that the NDs could cause.

Could you explain why there is a color shift when changing the aperture or ISO if the exposure is the same with ND’s?

Creative110 wrote:Could you explain why there is a color shift when changing the aperture or ISO if the exposure is the same with ND’s?

There can be subtle colour shifts with lenses shooting at different stops. It's actually an easy enough thing to test. It can even happen over as little as a stop of difference (all things being equal)

That's why when doing ND tests, it's best to use shutter speed as a way of compensating for exposure rather than aperture.

This guy tested it and despite him saying it was "neutral", you can easily see they are different
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=135032&hilit=aperture&start=50#p732193

JB

Lee Mackreath wrote:It’s on my feed when I go into the YouTube app.
He knows his stuff and has been using the 4K and 6k for sometime, and has been a real advocate of the cameras over the years. He is not on me for click bait and he is an experienced dp so I do believe he knows what he is seeing isn’t right and it’s not about apertures or filtration.. let’s see what his video shows soon!

Yeah, but those samples were not shot by Bertoli and you can't draw any conclusions from some random dude posting alarmist FB posts without having more details. Let Bertoli do his tests and then start discussing from there.

EDIT:
Edited out wrong quote.

I just tested my G2, P4k and P6k Pro side by side with a color chart. Colors are not perfectly identical but close enough for any professional work. I've had Alexa Minis side by side with Amiras, in theory same sensor and even at that price point and QC from Arri colors differ from unit to unit a little bit.

My P6k Pro has a very noticeable blue shift on the LCD but the actual colors the sensor produces seem on first testing.

Robert Niessner wrote:

Lee Mackreath wrote:

robedge wrote:It’s on my feed when I go into the YouTube app.

He knows his stuff and has been using the 4K and 6k for sometime, and has been a real advocate of the cameras over the years. He is not on me for click bait and he is an experienced dp so I do believe he knows what he is seeing isn’t right and it’s not about apertures or filtration.. let’s see what his video shows soon!

Yeah, but those samples were not shot by Bertoli and you can't draw any conclusions from some random dude posting alarmist FB posts without having more details. Let Bertoli do his tests and then start discussing from there.

Hi Robert. Your post two above ascribes to me statements made by someone else. I'd appreciate it if you'd edit the post to correct this.

Hey guys, so I just tested my Pocket 6k Pro.

Cloudy conditions outside, each set of ND tests done in approx. 30 seconds, so lighting changes should be minimal.
The test was done on daylight WB preset (5600 / 10) with a Sigma 50mm Art. Aperture is consistent throughout all of them, exposure was managed only using shutter (and 50fps for the no nd to get it dark enough). I only applied the BM supplied Gen5 to Extended Video LUT in a UHD timeline in Resolve 17.1 and exported uncompressed stills.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

In this Google Drive folder you will find jpegs of my testings as well as a zip file with the uncompressed tif variant of each picture.

I will not go into detail on my findings here as I think everyone can make their own conclusions of my test.
All I will say is that I have seen way worse shifts from all kinds of filters in the past and I don't think we have something here that is not easy to correct in post or even with a proper WB in camera.

Let me know what you think!

-edit-
Forgot to mention that my unit suffers from a blue LCD screen as well but as you can see pictures come out as neutral as I expect from a camera like this.

SaschaH wrote:Hey guys, so I just tested my Pocket 6k Pro...

I will not go into detail on my findings here as I think everyone can make their own conclusions of my test.
All I will say is that I have seen way worse shifts from all kinds of filters in the past and I don't think we have something here that is not easy to correct in post or even with a proper WB in camera.

Let me know what you think!

-edit-
Forgot to mention that my unit suffers from a blue LCD screen as well but as you can see pictures come out as neutral as I expect from a camera like this.

What I think is that proper testing and discussion about the results of that testing is indeed important, and that the fact that you have personally seen "worse shifts" in the past is beside the point. Surely the objective is to determine what the issue is, if any, and then identify what the options are in dealing with the issue, if there is one.

Hey Rob,

that's exactly why I didn't say what my conclusions where in detail but thank you very much for your detailed feedback.
I guess next time I should just not post stuff like this here so everybody has to do their own testing.

-edit-
And obviously I can only talk about the unit I personally received, there might be other units out there with different results.

robedge wrote:

SaschaH wrote:Hey guys, so I just tested my Pocket 6k Pro...

I will not go into detail on my findings here as I think everyone can make their own conclusions of my test.
All I will say is that I have seen way worse shifts from all kinds of filters in the past and I don't think we have something here that is not easy to correct in post or even with a proper WB in camera.

Let me know what you think!

-edit-
Forgot to mention that my unit suffers from a blue LCD screen as well but as you can see pictures come out as neutral as I expect from a camera like this.

What I think is that proper testing and the detailed results of that testing is indeed important, and that the fact that you have personally seen "worse shifts" in the past is beside the point.

Remove

Remove

Mine looked fine and I'm picky about colour cast or tint. My BMPCC4k has green, VA712GHDR has red. My Pocket 6k Pro images loaded on post does not show any blue tint or any temperature different than what appear on the camera screen. Like others I notice the image become cooler with each higher density of internal ND, is that a flaw, the quality of IRND too strong or is it merely correcting IR pollution with each step of ND?

Robert Niessner wrote: Let Bertoli do his tests and then start discussing from there.

Precisely. Matteo Bertoli knows what he's doing and it's unlikely that he'll identify a non-existent issue. He has a 6K and two 6K Pros to test with. He may very well conclude either that there's no significant issue, at least with his cameras, or that it's easily manageable. In any event, he's both credible and influential and can't be ignored or dismissed.

robedge wrote:

Robert Niessner wrote: Let Bertoli do his tests and then start discussing from there.

Precisely. Matteo Bertoli knows what he's doing and it's unlikely that he'll identify a non-existent issue. He has a 6K and two 6K Pros to test with. He may very well conclude either that there's no significant issue, at least with his cameras, or that it's easily manageable. In any event, he's both credible and influential and can't be ignored or dismissed.

At least why I took issue with the earlier post, is that the text pasted above are Matteo Bertoli's comments on another user's images in his YouTube community area. Bertoli had made his own quick image comparison a week before where he posted three images, Pocket 6K Pro Clear, Pocket 6K Pro 6 Stops ND and Nisi 6 Stops ND aimed at buildings in the city. The NISI IRND is clearly tinting the image warmer than the ND clear setting on the Pocket 6K, which he says he prefers.

https://www.youtube.com/c/MatteobertoliMe/community

(scroll the feed for Bertoli's own image comparison)

WahWay wrote: Like others I notice the image become cooler with each higher density of internal ND, is that a flaw, the quality of IRND too strong or is it merely correcting IR pollution with each step of ND?

I'm seeing that in my own images too, and in Sacha's linked above. It's not an issue where I think it needs to be fixed more than a slight WB / Tint adjustment in camera or in post.

I think users have to be careful to not post images and comments that are purposefully misleading. In Bertoli's examples I do think the comments and images are misleading, but I'm not sure that is his intent.

CVP review confirm Pocket 6k Pro blue tint screen effect varies across different copies

Watch from 23:10



Update: I have just connected my 4k LG HDR monitor I use for grading to my Pocket 6k Pro and everything match with both screens, no blue tint whatsoever apart from only a slight punchier look from the camera screen there is no temperature shift.

This is discussed quite a bit here




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WahWay wrote:CVP review confirm Pocket 6k Pro blue tint screen effect varies across different copies

Watch from 23:10

He says that all three of the demo units that CVP has are off. At 24:05:

This is something that Blackmagic could fix fairly easily as it should just involve them shifting the white point of the display. But this will be different from unit to unit, so it would most likely require the camera being sent back in, but we’ll have to see.