What to purchase (USMP12K)

I recently had an unhappy experience with pre-sales in Blackmagic . I somewhat understand...but I don't understand their position.

I am looking to purchase the 12k camera. And this is the first professional never camera I have ever purchased. I have had Pro summer models from Sony which have lasted well over 10 years yet it recently died and I'm looking for a replacement.

My question was relatively simple: in addition to the body what else should I purchase so that I can use the camera? The response was extremely terse and basically stated they don't help their customers determine what other components they need to purchase in order to use their equipment.

While I understand that discussing external hardware/software would be a stretch for the organization, understanding what Blackmagic hardware I need to create a working platform, I assumed would be well within their scope. As an example when purchasing the UMUMP12k body "do I need to purchase a specific battery pack"? Of course their answer was we don't help you with that. Another question such as "what's the best media I should record to"; their answer is: we don't help you with that.

I understand that most of the individuals which purchase hardware from a company like Blackmagic understand what they are purchasing, what else they need, and how to make it all produce magic on the screen; but not everybody is at that level. However, thanks to Grant this now within reach of the advanced "average" human.

I also completely understand that spending $10,000 (USD) on a camera is not within everyone's budget. However I would expect an organization which sold multiple components all which can be bolted on or used by one of their core platforms: Blackmagic would be capable in providing this level of information. Turns out they either are incapable, or unwilling to help.

Now when it comes to running Resolve or Fusion (of which I already own both licenses since v14), Blackmagic does provide guidance so the lack of support on the most expensive body in their lineup baffles me. All of that aside I have abandoned pre-sales and and find myself in this forum.

So I am now reaching out to the global community to understand in addition to the camera body what other components are a "must" and which components are a "nice to have". The body is a mounting point for things like lenses, batteries, view finders, storage systems, and the like. Now I believe it will help to understand what I have in kit (some items are missing as I can't remember what I have):

* Blackmagic Video Assistant (7" 12G)
* Blackmagic 3G‑SDI Shield for Arduino
* Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera 4K
* Lots of BNC to Micro BNC
* XLR microphones & cables
* Sony "G" A & E lens mount
* Sony "A" to MFT adapter
* Sony "A" to "E" lens adapter
* Tilta Nucleus-M Lens Control System
* Lots of SmallRig items (pretty much everything they have)
* RONIN-S
* Gigapan EPIC

I'm looking to make a platform I can replace a prosumer platform (Sony AX-2000) which has died after 10 years of use. I do not make any cinematic films. Rather I work more in real-life, event (plays, recites, etc...), family trips, equestrian events, and the like. I do not want to "settle" on the BMPCC as I will eventually move to the top line model anyway. By making the leap, I can overlook the expense of the other platforms and take the hit on this purchase. Additionally all of the other items I purchase from this point forward will move towards the 12K.

I appreciate any and all feedback, just know I am a service disabled veteran with a limited budget (read that I do not have $100K (USD)) to spend so "must's" are critical to me, and "nice to have" are just that they are not needed, just nice to have for a specific reason. If you feel awkward in suggesting items, you can PM me or look up my user id and send me an email.

Thanks in advance...

OKay, first thing first:
The 12K comes with PL, EF or F lens mount (if I am not wrong), so you can discard all those "Sony to <whatever>" lens mount accessories
Second things second: I'd recommend you talk to a reputable reseller in your area and explain them what you THINK you'll need (based on how you think you'll use this camera) - they will explain you what you REALLY need (if you can use the camera the way you think you will use it)...

They're not here to help but all the answers to your questions can be found here. They sell products. I would go to your local reseller and talk to professionals or come to the internet and do your own research.

Loaded question because everyone's workflow is different. I've shot with just a lens, Cfast and a battery as well as a fully rigged out 22lb beast of an Ursa. Each job is different.

You don't really need anything other than the ursa, a lens(es), your choice of gold or v-mount batteries and recording media nvme ssd's or Cfast depending on what flavor of raw youre shooting. Everything after that is a matter of workflow and what fits your style of shooting.

The 12k is a great camera but personally, I would spend that 10k on a complete lightly used UMPG2 kit with some lenses and just flip whatever you don't need from it.

danielpanev's answers was spot on. Find a reseller who will work with you. Having sales person who takes an active role in your success is essential. That is not Blackmagic's job, they invent and manufacture products. Also you'll find lots of valuable nuggets around these parts as well. Good luck.

Welcome to the BMD Forums! You’ll find no shortage of advice here.

Interesting that you are purchasing the URSA Mini Pro 12K (UMP12K) as a starting point. If you are still considering other options, the BMPCC6K Pro or the BMPCC4K are budget-friendly options to consider. With the modest BMPCC4K, it appears you have an mFT adapter already, so that is a very economical starting point if it saves you the cost of completely new lenses. The BMPCC6K Pro might also save you the cost of a complete set of IRND filters and with the additional companion dedicated EVF for the BMPCC6K Pro, you have a fairly nimble and versatile option for event shooting in bright daylight. All the current Pocket cameras arguably have one compelling feature compared to the UMP12K: the dual range ISO capability is done very well so the camera offers two ‘native’ ISO choices, ISO 400 and ISO 3200 with decent noise performance out of the camera. Enough comment on those alternative camera options if you are sure about the UMP12K which is an excellent choice if it suits your needs.

So lenses and media and audio and batteries are likely your priorities now. There are very many threads here on those topics. And not sure if you need a better tripod or prefer to shoot while being mobile (if your disability doesn’t preclude that).

I’ll risk one purchase suggestion and that’s recording audio off camera such as with the Sound Devices MixPre II; I use the MixPre-6 II but there are other models as well as more capable device series. Using off camera recording improves your audio quality if your device is separate from your rig because the audio components are better and the camera noise is eliminated.

to understand in addition to the camera body what other components are a "must" and which components are a "nice to have".

I have the Blackmagic built accessories for the URSA Mini bodies, though they can be substituted, they are excellent.

-Blackmagic Design V-Mount Battery Plate for URSA
-Blackmagic Design Microphone Mount for URSA Mini/Mini Pro
-Blackmagic Design URSA Viewfinder
-Blackmagic Design Shoulder-Mount Kit for the URSA Mini

I have these V-Mount batteries: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... eries.html

As Rick mentioned there is a lot of info about media, the approved media list is the place to start:
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/faq/59030

I do not make any cinematic films. Rather I work more in real-life, event (plays, recites, etc...), family trips, equestrian events, and the like.

If these were primary use cases, then the Pocket 6K Pro is my pick. Mine arrived yesterday.

Personally, I'd be surprised if Blackmagic Support is in the business of consulting with Blackmagic owners on how to outfit their cameras. I don't think that that's what Support is there for. Did they not suggest that you speak with a reseller?

In any event, you live in Hilton Head. Blackmagic Design lists four resellers in your state. One of them - AVAlive - appears to be a fairly large operation, and says on its website that it has offices both in Hilton Head and Charleston.

There are plenty of other resellers in nearby states, including in Atlanta which is a major video/film market. If you prefer, you could also do business with the Professional Video Department at B&H in New York.

sc.jpeg (259.39 KiB) Viewed 3782 times

I'm looking to make a platform I can replace a prosumer platform (Sony AX-2000) which has died after 10 years of use. I do not make any cinematic films. Rather I work more in real-life, event (plays, recites, etc...), family trips, equestrian events, and the like. I do not want to "settle" on the BMPCC as I will eventually move to the top line model anyway. By making the leap, I can overlook the expense of the other platforms and take the hit on this purchase. Additionally all of the other items I purchase from this point forward will move towards the 12K.

I mean no offence, but "making the leap from prosumer platform to USMP12K" is like making the leap from your family car steering wheel to an F1 steering wheel.
P.S. This is an F1 car steering wheel:

P.P.S. F1 drivers constantly use all the knobs on the steering wheel

So I am now reaching out to the global community to understand in addition to the camera body what other components are a "must" and which components are a "nice to have". The body is a mounting point for things like lenses, batteries, view finders, storage systems, and the like. Now I believe it will help to understand what I have in kit (some items are missing as I can't remember what I have):

* Blackmagic Video Assistant (7" 12G)
* Blackmagic 3G‑SDI Shield for Arduino
* Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera 4K
* Lots of BNC to Micro BNC
* XLR microphones & cables
* Sony "G" A & E lens mount
* Sony "A" to MFT adapter
* Sony "A" to "E" lens adapter
* Tilta Nucleus-M Lens Control System
* Lots of SmallRig items (pretty much everything they have)
* RONIN-S
* Gigapan EPIC

I'm looking to make a platform I can replace a prosumer platform (Sony AX-2000) which has died after 10 years of use. I do not make any cinematic films. Rather I work more in real-life, event (plays, recites, etc...), family trips, equestrian events, and the like.

Thomas, based on what you said your use is for (your statement in red above), the Blackmagic Camera ecosystem is really not for you, and more particularly the URSA line. IMO, the URSA 12K is a bad choice. Why? First of, you seem to be looking into adapters to adapt Sony lenses to it. Sony lenses, even with adaptors, do not work well on BMD camera. Second, I am assuming that you have amass many Sony E-mount lenses for your previous Sony cams. Your two most expensive investment will be the camera and lenses. You probably have few of those invested (the lenses). I do see that for whatever reason, you want to either have the top of the line and/or a professional cinema camera. If that is driving your decision, here's my suggestion to you and you alone. Do not be fooled with just resolution. Making a 12K a future proofing decision is a bad decision. Cameras will get obsolete regardless of the Ks.

Ditch Blackmagic altogether and buy a Sony FX series camera. You can go with the newest and smallest in their FX line, the FX3, or if you want to get the higher end and can afford it, you can look at the FX6 or FX9. These cameras are pretty much ready to go out of the box too, and their prices are relatively in the sub $10k or less range. Here's some listed on B&H. And btw, they are pro cinema cameras as well so you get the built and image quality expected from a cine camera, not prosumer.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?N ... yes&sts=ma

Good luck!

Thomas, based on what you said your use is for (your statement in red above), the Blackmagic Camera ecosystem is really not for you, and more particularly the URSA line. IMO, the URSA 12K is a bad choice. Why? First of, you seem to be looking into adapters to adapt Sony lenses to it. Sony lenses, even with adaptors, do not work well on BMD camera. Second, I am assuming that you have amass many Sony E-mount lenses for your previous Sony cams. Your two most expensive investment will be the camera and lenses. You probably have have of those invested (the lenses). I do see that for whatever reason, you want to either have the top of the line and/or a professional cinema camera. If that is driving your decision, here's my suggestion to you and you alone. Do not be fooled with resolution alone.

Ditch Blackmagic altogether and buy a Sony FX series camera. You can go with the newest and smallest in their FX line, the FX3, or if you want to get the higher end and can afford it, you can look at the FX6 or FX9. These cameras are pretty much ready to go out of the box too, and their prices are relatively in the sub $10k or less range. Here's some listed on B&H. And btw, they are pro cinema cameras as well so you get the built and image quality expected from a cine camera, not prosumer.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?N ... yes&sts=ma

Good luck!

Sony autofocus would be very helpful for this:

I do not make any cinematic films. Rather I work more in real-life, event (plays, recites, etc...), family trips, equestrian events, and the like.

I’m sure most of your questions could be easily answered in the best possible way by a dealer.

Sounds like you’re in the US so you won’t be buying direct. Where abouts are you located ? You should find a good local dealer. They should be able to answer these questions and ask the ones you haven’t even thought of.

JB

I’m sure most of your questions could be easily answered in the best possible way by a dealer.

Sounds like you’re in the US so you won’t be buying direct. Where abouts are you located ? You should find a good local dealer. They should be able to answer these questions and ask the ones you haven’t even thought of.

JB

I'm on the east coast--Hilton Head Island--and there are no dealers here. I guess I would expect a company like BM to have "pre-sales" experts knowledgeable in their tech...but alas that does not appear to be the case.

When interacting with dealers, they tend to sell you what they have on the shelf, not what is best for you. This is not my first rodeo and I now understand "research" is the dealer I need...so I will begin my research. Thanks for the post.

Personally, I'd be surprised if Blackmagic Support is in the business of consulting with Blackmagic owners on how to outfit their cameras. I don't think that that's what Support is there for. Did they not suggest that you speak with a reseller?

In any event, you live in Hilton Head. Blackmagic Design lists four resellers in your state. One of them - AVAlive - appears to be a fairly large operation, and says on its website that it has offices both in Hilton Head and Charleston.

There are plenty of other resellers in nearby states, including in Atlanta which is a major video/film market. If you prefer, you could also do business with the Professional Video Department at B&H in New York.

sc.jpeg

Thanks for the info. The closest dealer if 2.5 hours away. I would also expect BM to have "pre-sales" experts on staff who can provide insight into their product. No issue though, I'll do this the old-fashioned way and do my own research. There is no shortage of dialog out there on the platform. Stay safe & healthy.

Welcome to the BMD Forums! You’ll find no shortage of advice here.

Interesting that you are purchasing the URSA Mini Pro 12K (UMP12K) as a starting point. If you are still considering other options, the BMPCC6K Pro or the BMPCC4K are budget-friendly options to consider. With the modest BMPCC4K, it appears you have an mFT adapter already, so that is a very economical starting point if it saves you the cost of completely new lenses. The BMPCC6K Pro might also save you the cost of a complete set of IRND filters and with the additional companion dedicated EVF for the BMPCC6K Pro, you have a fairly nimble and versatile option for event shooting in bright daylight. All the current Pocket cameras arguably have one compelling feature compared to the UMP12K: the dual range ISO capability is done very well so the camera offers two ‘native’ ISO choices, ISO 400 and ISO 3200 with decent noise performance out of the camera. Enough comment on those alternative camera options if you are sure about the UMP12K which is an excellent choice if it suits your needs.

So lenses and media and audio and batteries are likely your priorities now. There are very many threads here on those topics. And not sure if you need a better tripod or prefer to shoot while being mobile (if your disability doesn’t preclude that).

I’ll risk one purchase suggestion and that’s recording audio off camera such as with the Sound Devices MixPre II; I use the MixPre-6 II but there are other models as well as more capable device series. Using off camera recording improves your audio quality if your device is separate from your rig because the audio components are better and the camera noise is eliminated.

Best response so far, thanks!

My UMPG2 Kit:

URSA Mini Pro G2
UMP Shoulder Mount Kit
UMP Viewfinder
UMP Battery Mount (I have V-Mount, but you could go Gold Mount)
VCT-14 Tripod Adapter Plate
4 150Wh CoreSWX HyperCore Batteries (V-Mount; again you could go Gold Mount)
2 98Wh CoreSWX HyperCore Batteries (V-Mount)
4 256GB ProGrade CFast 2.0 Cards
UMP PL Mount
DZOFilm Pictor Zooms (20-55mm & 50-125mm T2.8)
DZOFilm Vespid Primes (25mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm, 100mm, & 125mm T2.1)
Sachtler FSB-8 Tripod Head with Flowtech 75 Legs

Additionally I, of course, have battery chargers and card readers. I have 2 Dual Battery Chargers from CoreSWX and I have a ProGrade CFast 2.0 Card Reader USB-C.

Other essentials I have in my kit include:
4x5.65" Tilta Matte Box
Tilta Follow Focus
Tilta Nucleus M
SmallRig 15mm Rods (6" & 10")
SmallRig Lens Support Bracket
SmallHD 702 Bright Monitor
Various Monitor Brackets and Arms

I also have the UMP EF Mount, and have with EF Mount the Rokinon Cinema Lenses, Sigma Art Still Zooms (18-35mm f1.8 & 50-100mm f1.8), and the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8.

My entire kit is generally up there in cost. I've built it over several years. Take from it what you will for your needs.

Based on what you described however it's a big leap from your previous camera setup. And, what you are shooting doesn't require a lot of the items I have in my kit. For example you could get away with the lower cost EF lenses like the Sigmas. But you need to purchase the EF Mount if you get the 12K since the 12K comes with PL by default.

Additionally, with the 12K you may want to get larger capacity CFast 2.0 Cards. Maybe 4 512GB cards or even 4 1TB cards. 12K takes up a lot more space. Be prepared to spend money on external hard drives as well to store and backup all the files.

I hope some of this helps.

When interacting with dealers, they tend to sell you what they have on the shelf, not what is best for you.

Not if they are a good dealer.

You can go to someone like Hot Rod Cameras for example. Illya will look after you though they are west coast.

There are also BMD product specialists for most products in each region. You can just try calling them. But again, they might not help you out much with peripherals that aren't made by Blackmagic....which is why you really want a reputable dealer, someone you can have an ongoing relationship with.

JB

My UMPG2 Kit:

Pretty much my kit is the same as Tim and others here with some variations in lenses, cards, and related gears. Here's my UMP 4.6K G2 at my last filming. I've got it rigged so that I can go from sticks to shoulders and vice versa. Oh, and definitely not the camera setup I would bring on family trip and equestrian events.

myursag2.jpg (131.71 KiB) Viewed 3322 times

My UMPG2 Kit:

Pretty much my kit is the same as Tim and others here with some variations in lenses, cards, and related gears. Here's my UMP 4.6K G2 at my last filming. I've got it rigged so that I can go from sticks to shoulders and vice versa. Oh, and definitely not the camera setup I would bring on family trip and equestrian events.

myursag2.jpg

Yeah, I ignored my Wireless Video System. But I use the Hollyland Cosmo 600 (now discontinued) and like their system solely because I can power the unit individually with a Sony battery.

I will probably go Teradek in the future because it is more widely used. Also, they have adopted a "Battery Pass-Through" power solution that I like with their 4K Bolts. Those are extremely pricey at the moment, so I'll wait for the price to drop a lot more.

Nonetheless, Wireless Video is an essential tool these days. Especially for AC/Focus Pullers, and Clients/Directors/Producers. A full system with multiple Receivers is worth investing in if doing commercial work.

My UMPG2 Kit:

... Oh, and definitely not the camera setup I would bring on family trip and equestrian events.

myursag2.jpg

I have to say; I purchased the 12K and a ton of other items, and this camera is the BEST camera I have used for family outings and equestrian events. The quality of the videos I can produce with this are receiving rave reviews.

The only thing I am now contemplating is the Tilta Armorman 3.0 Gimbal Support System to be worn under a shirt. While the "sticks" can hold the camera with amazing results, I want to move around the event and I think the Armorman would be easier.

My UMPG2 Kit:

... Oh, and definitely not the camera setup I would bring on family trip and equestrian events.

myursag2.jpg

I have to say; I purchased the 12K and a ton of other items, and this camera is the BEST camera I have used for family outings and equestrian events. The quality of the videos I can produce with this are receiving rave reviews.

The only thing I am now contemplating is the Tilta Armorman 3.0 Gimbal Support System to be worn under a shirt. While the "sticks" can hold the camera with amazing results, I want to move around the event and I think the Armorman would be easier.

You would be amazed how mobile and stable you can be with the BMD shoulder mount kit, Viewfinder kit V-mount battery kit and Canon EF mount with EF stabilized lens. It balances well, extensive variety of EF lenses. Shoulder mount was and still is the standard for broadcast but looks right anywhere.

I've got the viewfinder, shoulder kit and the like, yet I've not been successful in staying stable. I usually manage the shake in post, but I am trying to remove a lot of the post workflow. Stabilizers are the next step on the journey for me.

Sounds to me like you might be benefited by training your feet.
https://filmmakeriq.com/the-marching-band-trick-to-steadier-handheld-moving-shots/
You'll likely have the same problem with any other device as with a shoulder mount.

Thanks for the guidance. It might help that he’s carrying possibly only a tenth the weight I was holding in front. Still good hints there.

I'm not saying I can move like a YouTube blogger with it, or keep the framing locked like a tripod, but tee to green shooting from the shoulder with U12K and EF100-400L IS II USM even at 400mm has none of the micro-jitter I see on my own videos and others from mirrorless/lightweight cameras on a gimbal. There's something more natural, not shooting up into peoples noses from the waist, not supporting the camera out front putting load on your arms and back, all day comfort. I did hang a pair of bicycle type handlebar grips from the rods. I'm a left eye shooter so keeping my head against the body provides another steadying point of contact.

Here is some U12K B-roll from a recent shoot, all from the shoulder, 100-300mm, no post stabilization. Shot in 8K-UHD 120 FPS, it plays on YouTube in 8K HDR if you have the display to watch it with. That's my Pocket 6K shown on the tripod on the left. The photographer pictured is not me, but he is using some expensive kit as well, sporting a pair of Sony A1 on his belt.

I'm a left eye shooter so keeping my head against the body provides another steadying point of contact.

Really steady. I can make out your breathing near the end of the clip, but damn: your steady. I'm a little older and have an athletic frame with the large trapezius muscle. This makes fitting the shoulder rig very difficult. I'm forced to place the camera way out on the shoulder, which makes keeping it stabilized very difficult.

Also, I need to move to get shots which are better head-on at one point, to a side-view on the next and not miss the action in the middle. Your shot appeared to be in a single vantage point, which means you could rest against a pillar/tree to super steady your position. I'm hanging out there with nothing to lean against.

In the end, it all comes down to:

Oh, to be young again

Your shot appeared to be in a single vantage point, which means you could rest against a pillar/tree to super steady your position. I'm hanging out there with nothing to lean against.

No, I did not do that. And that's why I call it tee to green. If I have to circle around, continuous movement, the U12K is not the ideal camera for that, at least not with a 400mm lens. I have a few stabilized wide lenses, primes which could make something like that possible I suppose, but why? Shots like that, closer, wider, circling; it's just easier to use a gimbal and mirrorless cam with auto-focus.

In the end, it all comes down to: Oh, to be young again

I am a fossil but young at heart. Dave Despain said, "You don't quit riding motorcycles because you get old. You get old because you quit riding motorcycles."

No, I did not do that. And that's why I call it tee to green.

As someone who has never played golf (and likely never will), the "tee to green" analogy is lost on me: could you explain what you mean? Do you mean advancing forward in a straight line?

It's a way of saying you move from point to point, aim and shoot.