Firmware Update Gen 5 for Ursa Mini Pro G2

Until there is a dual gain, FF sensor and probably global shutter and similar price to succeed the G2 BMD should be throwing its weight behind the G2 making it a better and a more current camera. The UMP 12k is too experimental/limiting and the market is not ready for that yet.

The UMP 12k is too experimental/limiting and the market is not ready for that yet.

It’s like the original big URSA, great idea and too experimental for its time. The UMP G2 is the sweet spot for most indie projects. Just give it 4K DCI, Gen 5 Prores, 240fps no crop and that will make it golden.

I understand what Blackmagic is doing with the 12K. I don't need that resolution, but I love what they are doing with their own custom sensor design.

Considering the Pockets got Gen 5 then the UMP G1 & G2 should be pretty easy for them to get to Gen 5 as well. I'd hope that Blackmagic does it. As I do need ProRes for handing off files to clients often it would be great.

The other day I shot with the G2 as my B-Cam and my Pocket 6K as my A-Cam for some testimonials. I shot Extended Video baked in ProRes 422 LT for the client. Handed off the footage when we were done. Then walked away. Now, my P6K is Gen 5 and the G2 is Gen 4. They wanted baked in look because they don't want to color grade. Would I prefer them to be on the same color science? Yes. But, I had to do what I had to do and it is what it is.

Hopefully this happens. But as I said I'm looking towards the future. And, for me that means Blackmagic continues to develop their sensor, which is the 12K. Could that mean going VistaVision (Full Frame) has a 16K sensor? Possibly. Will I shoot 16K? Probably not at first. I'll likely downscale to 8K or 4K depending on the project. But at least I'll be able to shoot full sensor 4K in BRAW. That's the best benefit of what Blackmagic did with their new sensor design.

EDIT: And, yesterday I worked a green screen teleprompter shoot. Showed up, used the producer's Canon C300ii and left with their DIT dumping footage. I've gotten to know the C300iii as well, and like features. But I still prefer the Blackmagic cameras. The UI is better for me. Although, I understand why people choose their Canons.

The other day I shot with the G2 as my B-Cam and my Pocket 6K as my A-Cam for some testimonials. I shot Extended Video baked in ProRes 422 LT for the client. Handed off the footage when we were done. Then walked away. Now, my P6K is Gen 5 and the G2 is Gen 4. They wanted baked in look because they don't want to color grade. Would I prefer them to be on the same color science? Yes. But, I had to do what I had to do and it is what it is.

The recent and last short narrative I filmed for a small production company pilot was the same. Shot all in ProRes with baked in Extended Video because that was what they want the look to be and not have to color in post.

This made me think and I wonder if this is even possible and correct since I have not tried it. Resolve 17 now has Gen 5. I know that LUTs in camera are used typically for monitoring only. But what if custom 3D LUT that has Gen 5 colors and emulates some look is made within Resolve then use that LUT in camera, baking the LUT into ProRes. Then use the same LUT on both the P6K and UMP G2.

EDIT: And, yesterday I worked a green screen teleprompter shoot. Showed up, used the producer's Canon C300ii and left with their DIT dumping footage. I've gotten to know the C300iii as well, and like features. But I still prefer the Blackmagic cameras. The UI is better for me. Although, I understand why people choose their Canons.

Ha! Again, another project with almost similar situation - using the production company/producer's cameras to shoot in ProRes 422 HQ. It was a Canon C200 and a Fuji X-T3 both using an Atomos Inferno on the Atomos SSD. It was a bizarre reason for me - they wanted it to be on the SSD directly because they want to take the SSD directly to Post. There was no DIT to dump footage on another media on set that I know of. I showed up, did what I do as DP, then left. Of all the [cine] cameras I have used to date (which was quite a few brands), I think the Blackmagic has the best UI of them all.
Now BMD, please add "Shot" to the Slate in your next firmware.

How is it we can fork out for a G2 which is still being sold new only to be completely ignored by the company selling it. I've also been eyeing up a canon of some variety for my next purchase, they feel like a more mature, less gimmicky company that cares about their customers. The G2's also feel just a touch too big after a while, at first I loved the weight, coming from a pocket 4k, but now after lugging it around all the time I'm having second thoughts

How is it we can fork out for a G2 which is still being sold new only to be completely ignored by the company selling it. I've also been eyeing up a canon of some variety for my next purchase, they feel like a more mature, less gimmicky company that cares about their customers. The G2's also feel just a touch too big after a while, at first I loved the weight, coming from a pocket 4k, but now after lugging it around all the time I'm having second thoughts

Warning, the Canon C300iii was riddled with a couple issues that were only resolved with a firmware update last month. But we're talking about issues that weren't resolved until that firmware and existed last October. The person I shoot for that has the C300iii had a long continual cycle of returning the camera for repairs partly because of these issues. He was not thrilled with how Canon addressed a lot of it. Now that C300iii is his third model and with the new firmware it is finally a good camera to shoot with.

My UMPG2 has been ultra reliable and without issue despite not getting any firmware updates in two years. In fact, the firmware updates we're asking for are bonus features added to the cameras. It kind of stinks that the Pockets have gotten more love, but those are different cameras. Still I don't have much to complain about with regards to my G2. I've been so happy with it. It's my workhorse camera.

Well, I hope it’s not goodbye Gen 5 in a future G2 firmware.

BMD Support Team answer from yesterday :

"With regards to updates for our cameras, we in support are not able to comment on this as we are not aware until an update has a public release.
We recommend that you keep an eye out on the support page on our website as all updates will be posted here."

Looks like they are now keeping their distance with this question, as they were more inclined to a possible new firmware release in their answer earlier this year.

BTW most requests and questions about this Gen5 update get no answer at all from them...

Now the UMP 12k is the same price as the UMP G2 that is saying something. The UMP12k has hit a wall, the focus should be on developing the G2.

I lost hope already. I bought the G2 not long ago myself and requested countless times for an update and info.
I think they simply given up on the camera.
As much as I like Blackmagic I am not sure about continuing with them based on them quickly stop supporting their cameras so quickly.

It's just annoying. They should be reading these threads and improving. Not ignoring us.

I lost hope already. I bought the G2 not long ago myself and requested countless times for an update and info.
I think they simply given up on the camera.
As much as I like Blackmagic I am not sure about continuing with them based on them quickly stop supporting their cameras so quickly.

It's just annoying. They should be reading these threads and improving. Not ignoring us.

Giving up and not trying are two different thing. What we are seeing is the latter.

I created an account only to post this comment. I have been a BM owner since their first camera. 2.5K. I have a pocket 4K and G2 at the moment. I just purchased a PL mount for it. I was considering getting a Komodo but my love for G2 prevented me from doing it. I just can't pull the trigger to sell the G2. That being said I am very very disappointed by Blackmagic. You don't do this to people man. You don't just ignore this many comments and act like we don't exist. We are the people who have supported you. since the beginning. I am still not sure if I will sell the G2 but I am sure of one thing that I will never, ever buy a camera from Blackmagic again. Never. You just don't give support to your best camera? How on earth do you think these people will buy a camera from you again. Mr. Grant? Come on, what is wrong with you people. I honestly don't know how did you manage to build a company like this. You should just stick with Davinci Resolve. I am so disappointed and feeling betrayed, I don't know what to say. It is not that hard man. It is not that hard to take yourself from a weird company to a great company. Just don't betray your customers. RED Komodo is 6K too and there are other great cameras in the market too. Horrible, horrible customer service. Shame on you. Next time you make a camera announcement I will remember this Mr. Grant. I would never buy your 12K experimental thingy and I would stick with my G2 but I will also remember how you made a 50% discount on your newest camera and made it the same price as my G2. Honestly, you have been displaying how to screw your customers perfectly. Shame on you. Now you can ban me. I said what I had to say and what I will ever say on Blackmagic. Well, one last time: SHAME ON YOU. I am sick of you.

I created an account only to post this comment. I have been a BM owner since their first camera. 2.5K. I have a pocket 4K and G2 at the moment. I just purchased a PL mount for it. I was considering getting a Komodo but my love for G2 prevented me from doing it. I just can't pull the trigger to sell the G2. That being said I am very very disappointed by Blackmagic. You don't do this to people man. You don't just ignore this many comments and act like we don't exist. We are the people who have supported you. since the beginning. I am still not sure if I will sell the G2 but I am sure of one thing that I will never, ever buy a camera from Blackmagic again. Never. You just don't give support to your best camera? How on earth do you think these people will buy a camera from you again. Mr. Grant? Come on, what is wrong with you people. I honestly don't know how did you manage to build a company like this. You should just stick with Davinci Resolve. I am so disappointed and feeling betrayed, I don't know what to say. It is not that hard man. It is not that hard to take yourself from a weird company to a great company. Just don't betray your customers. RED Komodo is 6K too and there are other great cameras in the market too. Horrible, horrible customer service. Shame on you. Next time you make a camera announcement I will remember this Mr. Grant. I would never buy your 12K experimental thingy and I would stick with my G2 but I will also remember how you made a 50% discount on your newest camera and made it the same price as my G2. Honestly, you have been displaying how to screw your customers perfectly. Shame on you. Now you can ban me. I said what I had to say and what I will ever say on Blackmagic. Well, one last time: SHAME ON YOU. I am sick of you.

I will say that I will still buy Blackmagic Cameras in the future.

I too had the OG 2.5K Cinema Camera. Loved it for what it did. I had the UM4.6K and now the UMPG2. I also have the P6K and P6KPro. I'm leaning towards getting the 12K, but still gonna wait to see what next happens with it.

So, ultimately my viewpoint is this. The UMPG2 delivered exactly what I expected when I bought it. Two years and no firmware updates and it still works the way I knew it would when I bought it. Am I disappointed there haven't been firmware updates? Yes. But, that doesn't mean I'm upset with the camera because it is still reliable and works great. Would I like the updates we have requested. Yes, but if they don't happen it doesn't mean the camera is unusable by any means.

I've seen a cycle. The 2.5K and OG Pocket sensors were very much cut of the same cloth. They paired well together. That would be Sensor 1, and Sensor 2 would be the Production 4K, URSA, and URSA Mini 4K. That's 3 generations of bodies for a single sensor generation. Small improvements happened for the sensors with each body, but we can see that Blackmagic used Sensor 2 for 3 bodies. Sensor 3 would be the 4.6K sensor. URSA Mini 4.6K, URSA Mini Pro, and URSA Mini Pro G2 were the 3 generations of bodies for that sensor. Sensor 4 will be the Pocket 4K, Pocket 6K, and Pocket 6K Pro. Sensor 5 is the URSA Mini Pro 12K...

Thus, we can expect Sensor 5 will probably go through three generations of bodies. Generation One was the UMP12K. Thus we can expect to see body changes next using the 12K and it will accommodate improvements needed for the body and as well bring incremental updates to the 12K sensor. Then there will likely be a third generation on the 12K before Blackmagic goes to the next sensor. The Pockets might see a new Sensor as well, and we'll call that Sensor 6. Whether that utilizes the 12K or not is tough to say. So either way, this is my current observance.

Again, I will continue to buy Blackmagic Cameras.

UMP 12k is not for me. Sorry but I don't believe anyone ask for this camera before it came out or many people needed it afterwards, though having a 12k tag gave it a fad factor.

TBH there has not really been a generational improvement of sensors. The current Pocket cameras uses Sony sensors. It has bigger MP and better low light handling but not better IQ than its predecessors.

An UMP G2 and a Pocket 6k combo could achieve quite a lot more from normal to lowlight works than a UMP 12k.

Did you ever really try one? IMHO, the 12K may have got the wrong marketing. But then, humans are impressed by big numbers.

The 12K doesn't even produce that much more detail than an 8K camera. Or are my older Zeiss lenses not good enough? But even the Sigma 18-35mm with it's biting sharpness doesn't. To the contrary, the picture nearly has an analog feel about it, though with far more detail than even low ISO optochemical film ever had. It's the very fine-grained noise pattern from the lower Q versions, I suppose.

What it delivers, though, are colors to die for. Simply beautiful. And close to clipping it's holding true colors even a bit better than an Alexa, like car taillights or neon signs.

Alexa still has better DR and greater latitude no doubt.

I didn't write anything to the contrary.
Get an Alexa if you need one. The classic model can be found for less than 10 grand these days on Ebay.

Any news on the Gen 5 for Ump G2?
I cant even update my Pockets because I quite often shoot Prores by customer request using Pocket as B cams and for this reason I am stuck on older firmware on Pocket cams.

I don't even dare to ask if and when we finally get BRAW and Gen 4 for the original UM46k...
Or Gen 5 for the UMP G1...
Only my PCC4k could get everything.
I am completely stuck here and that is frustrating.

Being stuck is an understatement. I have the same issue which I cannot use the Pocket 6K as B-cam unless I go back to the Gen 4 firmware to be able to do so with my UMP G2. This is so unfortunate because the UMP G2 is their most popular URSA to date and have pretty much passed mustard with the Hollywood folks over any other of their cams and they are still selling it. It deserves a firmware upgrade. Yes, the lowered the price of the UMP 12K but it’s not getting much of a bite. I asked a cam op person I know who works in tinsel town and he was like “oh that 12K, we don’t bother with that stuff…” and he goes off talking about the Red Komodo and the new Red cam, and suggested how much he’d like a 6K with GS, referring to the Komodo.

Being stuck is an understatement. I have the same issue which I cannot use the Pocket 6K as B-cam unless I go back to the Gen 4 firmware to be able to do so with my UMP G2. This is so unfortunate because the UMP G2 is their most popular URSA to date and have pretty much passed mustard with the Hollywood folks over any other of their cams and they are still selling it. It deserves a firmware upgrade. Yes, the lowered the price of the UMP 12K but it’s not getting much of a bite. I asked a cam op person I know who works in tinsel town and he was like “oh that 12K, we don’t bother with that stuff…” and he goes off talking about the Red Komodo and the new Red cam, and suggested how much he’d like a 6K with GS, referring to the Komodo.

Honestly, I don't know how Blackmagic expects to sell 12k cameras when everyone expects them to drop support as soon as it's successor comes out. Talk about self sabotage

+1

Love my g2. go Fairchild go. actually i use my og bmpcc along with it, not the sony-pockets.

Please BMD, give it some love. the small bearess deserves it.

Did you ever really try one? IMHO, the 12K may have got the wrong marketing. But then, humans are impressed by big numbers.

The 12K doesn't even produce that much more detail than an 8K camera. Or are my older Zeiss lenses not good enough? But even the Sigma 18-35mm with it's biting sharpness doesn't. To the contrary, the picture nearly has an analog feel about it, though with far more detail than even low ISO optochemical film ever had. It's the very fine-grained noise pattern from the lower Q versions, I suppose.

What it delivers, though, are colors to die for. Simply beautiful. And close to clipping it's holding true colors even a bit better than an Alexa, like car taillights or neon signs.

i believe you when it comes to color and IQ. But still, its a first generation sensor cam and i would never buy a first generation thingy from BMD again. I guess a lot of BMD customers follow this path, so the 12k may not go as well as BMD wished for. BMD itself taught us this lesson and if they update my G2 to prove us wrong i may change my mind in the future.

Honestly, I don't know how Blackmagic expects to sell 12k cameras when everyone expects them to drop support as soon as it's successor comes out. Talk about self sabotage

Very good point. When I buy flagship products, I do expect firmware support for a longer period of time and a long support for repairs and spare parts.
It's easy for me to replace one or two dead PCC4ks because of the low price but to replace an UM46k and an UMP, not so. If that situation does not change, I can't invest any serious money into that ecosystem.

Honestly, I don't know how Blackmagic expects to sell 12k cameras when everyone expects them to drop support as soon as it's successor comes out. Talk about self sabotage

Very good point. When I buy flagship products, I do expect firmware support for a longer period of time and a long support for repairs and spare parts.
It's easy for me to replace one or two dead PCC4ks because of the low price but to replace an UM46k and an UMP, not so. If that situation does not change, I can't invest any serious money into that ecosystem.

Well said.

The whole G2 debacle is such a kick in the ball bag.

Honestly, I don't know how Blackmagic expects to sell 12k cameras when everyone expects them to drop support as soon as it's successor comes out. Talk about self sabotage

It will likely follow the same path the G2 did.

Who knows, maybe they already made their desired profit from the 12K.

I certainly bought the 12K cause I wanted what I believed was the latest and greatest camera from BMD.

All I can think is, damn this thing is heavy hahaha.

It gets the approval from my clients. Who wouldn't know a thing about cameras anyways.

Maybe it's all just gimmicky marketing. Which sucks if it's the case.

I've paid off the camera, but will NOT being spending that much again on a BMD camera in the future with as I just don't see it's value. The whole halve pricing thing still has a bit of a sting.

I might try Sony or Canon next. It's good to change up tools from time to time. Maybe I'll hire whatever the next big camera is from BMD...the 32K Cinema Camera Pro Mini URSA Vista Vision Pocket with 4000MP sensor.....still won't come with fixed dial buttons, accurate ND filter number prints, working USBc though. But you know at least I'll look cool.

Honestly, I don't know how Blackmagic expects to sell 12k cameras when everyone expects them to drop support as soon as it's successor comes out. Talk about self sabotage

Very good point. When I buy flagship products, I do expect firmware support for a longer period of time and a long support for repairs and spare parts.
It's easy for me to replace one or two dead PCC4ks because of the low price but to replace an UM46k and an UMP, not so. If that situation does not change, I can't invest any serious money into that ecosystem.

Sadly I know few that for this reason decided not to buy UMP G2´s and went for other brands instead, broken promises that were made last winter about coming with new firmware update for G2 including Gen5 does not help. The 12k did not fit their needs for few reasons but G2 did perfectly.

Honestly, I don't know how Blackmagic expects to sell 12k cameras when everyone expects them to drop support as soon as it's successor comes out. Talk about self sabotage

Very good point. When I buy flagship products, I do expect firmware support for a longer period of time and a long support for repairs and spare parts.
It's easy for me to replace one or two dead PCC4ks because of the low price but to replace an UM46k and an UMP, not so. If that situation does not change, I can't invest any serious money into that ecosystem.

Sadly I know few that for this reason decided not to buy UMP G2´s and went for other brands instead, broken promises that were made last winter about coming with new firmware update for G2 including Gen5 does not help. The 12k did not fit their needs for few reasons but G2 did perfectly.

I have friends that is with a local production company who were looking at buying 2-3 UMP G2's but went with Sony F6s instead mainly due to some of their folks reading the BMD forum and was very concern with the complaints for no G2 firmware update responses here. Like the other poster, they find the 12K did not fit their needs.

The G2 is the only Blackmagic camera currently available that is Netflix approve too.

The G2 is the only Blackmagic camera currently available that is Netflix approve too.

If Netflix is the production company. Netflix buys most of their programming still and they don’t dictate what those programs are filmed with. If your goal is getting your film on Netflix, don’t worry about what you shot it on. Worry about the story, acting and everything else but the camera.


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The G2 is the only Blackmagic camera currently available that is Netflix approve too.

If Netflix is the production company. Netflix buys most of their programming still and they don’t dictate what those programs are filmed with. If your goal is getting your film on Netflix, don’t worry about what you shot it on. Worry about the story, acting and everything else but the camera.


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Everytime someone mention "Netflix approve camera" this gets repeated like an old slipper by somoene like as if it was something we don't know about. We heard it so many times I hope for once someone don't repeat this again

My answer to you is "Yes we know".

The only thing that matters to me is "IMAX Approved" because everything else is lame.

My answer to you is "Yes we know".

But many many more just keep on asking....

JB

The G2 is the only Blackmagic camera currently available that is Netflix approve too.

If Netflix is the production company. Netflix buys most of their programming still and they don’t dictate what those programs are filmed with. If your goal is getting your film on Netflix, don’t worry about what you shot it on. Worry about the story, acting and everything else but the camera.


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Everytime someone mention "Netflix approve camera" this gets repeated like an old slipper by somoene like as if it was something we don't know about. We heard it so many times I hope for once someone don't repeat this again

My answer to you is "Yes we know".

If you don’t want it repeated, don’t mention Netflix. Or better yet, if you mention Netflix, expand on what Netflix approved actually means, otherwise you will get replies like mine. I too hate seeing people talk about the Netflix approved list of cameras as if the list is the be all list to get your project on Netflix.


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Netflix approved only means that Netflix uses them self´s in their own production.
They do not care about what camera you use.
If they like what you made then they will buy it no matter what you shot it on.

Sadly, I now think that we should understand that BMD will never update the Ursa Mini Pro G2 firmware anymore…

What a disappointment, what a shame…

Sadly, I now think that we should understand that BMD will never update the Ursa Mini Pro G2 firmware anymore…

What a disappointment, what a shame…

Yeah, as it is now over two years and two months since the last update I’d say so. A bit disappointing since the camera had only one firmware update.

But at least the camera has been amazing the last two years and performed exactly as advertised when it was announced. So that’s good that it did what I knew it would when purchasing. The firmware updates to add features would have been exactly that. Sadly, other cameras did get those added features and they were cameras that cost less money and weren’t as good.

And, I’m serious when I say the Pockets aren’t as good. I do believe the URSA Mini Pro is a better camera than the Pocket.


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I'm still using my G2 for the years to come. It's a solid camera. I'll just be staying on Gen 4 with one of the BMPCC 6K just for b-cam when using the G2 as the a-cam. The UMP12K is not in demand in my neck of the woods even after the discounted pricing. We still, for client work, find the RED Komodo to be our go to rented cam.

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Everytime someone mention "Netflix approve camera" this gets repeated like an old slipper by somoene like as if it was something we don't know about. We heard it so many times I hope for once someone don't repeat this again

My answer to you is "Yes we know".[/quote]

There is a bit of irony with your comment. I decided to have a little fun with it by replacing the words "Netflix approved camera" with "Firmware Update Gen 5 for the G2"

Every time someone mentions "Firmware Update Gen 5 for the G2" it gets repeated like an old slipper by someone like as if it was something we don't know about. We heard it so many times I hope for once someone don't repeat this again

My answer to you is "Yes we know".

BMD answer today :

« We are aware users are asking for this and I will try to ask the development team if there is any news on this. It is unlikely they will give me any information that is ready to be made public, however. »

No comment.


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BMD answer today :

« We are aware users are asking for this and I will try to ask the development team if there is any news on this. It is unlikely they will give me any information that is ready to be made public, however. »

No comment.


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Considering BRAW never came to the OG UM4.6K, I'd say that I'm now approaching Gen 5 Color on the G2 in the same way. I will buy the next URSA Mini Pro. Whether it is 12K G2 or 16K VistaVision. I'll buy it because of what they offer when it is announced and released. Not because of potential future firmware updates.

Again, the UMPG2 works perfectly as it is. So, I'm not really complaining as it is the camera I wanted to buy when I bought it.

This is not the “real” topic, the problem is that they don’t implement any new firmware update on the G2 whereas the camera can definitely handle a firmware update just as a cheap Pocket 4K can do.

The big problem is more that BMD tech guys don’t move their ass off to release a firmware update in more than 2 years, and less that it’s just not as it was initially when we bought it.

Currently, BMD is not supporting the G2 firmware updates anymore and this is just a proof that they don’t care about us, the ones who put the big money on the table. They definitely could/can implement an update for the G2 (and for many good reasons) but they chose not to do it.

If this ends up being the case - I mean G2 kicked out of their catalog without any firmware update - then I am done with them.

Why would a cheaper camera get more firmware functions than the one that cost 3-4 times more ?

Pointless


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This is not the “real” topic, the problem is that they don’t implement any new firmware update on the G2 whereas the camera can definitely handle a firmware update just as a cheap Pocket 4K can do.

The big problem is more that BMD tech guys don’t move their ass off to release a firmware update in more than 2 years, and less that it’s just not as it was initially when we bought it.

Currently, BMD is not supporting the G2 firmware updates anymore and this is just a proof that they don’t care about us, the ones who put the big money on the table. They definitely could/can implement an update for the G2 (and for many good reasons) but they chose not to do it.

If this ends up being the case - I mean G2 kicked out of their catalog without any firmware update - then I am done with them.

Why would a cheaper camera get more firmware functions than the one that cost 3-4 times more ?

Pointless

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+1. They want folks to get on their latest camera only - like the Pocket 6K Pro and the UMP 12K today, in when they release a new product in a few months, the firmware for the 6K Pro and the UMP 12K will cease to exist. This is a pattern with how they handle their customer. We're stepping up with loaning the 6K Komodo and possibly the new V-Raptor. We're not entertaining cine cameras more than 6K so we will likely end up renting the V-Raptor and get a few 6K Komodo. I'm getting a Komodo for myself - the global sensor is excellent, the box form factor just fits well and gives so much flexibility for our projects. I will still keep my Blackmagic G2 and Pocket 6K. As to future cameras, I haven't seen anything interesting on the Blackmagic horizon; and if there is, it has to be a form factor 6K or 8K at a $2000USD or less price point since they make their camera obsolete easily (like no firmware updates like the G2) and expect us to buy them, use them, and replace them too often.

I'll buy it because of what they offer when it is announced and released. Not because of potential future firmware updates.
So, I'm not really complaining as it is the camera I wanted to buy when I bought it.

Tim, not everyone is like you who will buy a camera without updates, particularly if those updates means giving the camera functions it should have in the first place when it was released, fixed issues, and will allow the camera to be viable for at least 5 years minimum, especially when it is still being sold as NEW in the marketplace.

Blackmagic have produced some amazing cameras and I have not regretted my purchases so far, however in a world where there are now so many options, I can't help but feel less secure knowing that out of warranty im pretty much left by myself and as soon as a camera is launched, its pretty much forgotten about while the company work on the next new camera. Ive been with BM for years but for the first time ever, along with a few others I know, our next purchase will be the Komodo or something similar. Support for such an expensive purchase is crucial, and updates to respond to the changing market is also essential for me. I would very much settle for a Komodo (I prefer BM sensor slightly more) but its the other things like support, updates etc that make the decision a little easier.

I know the trend in these forums is to praise BM and say things like 'I bought the camera for what it could do then', but in the real world, it is now normal and expected for technology to update and keep up with the small changes to help us achieve better or more attainable images. ie GEN5 in the G2 for times when delivering proves etc etc. I think we have to allow ourselves to expect updates to purchases we spent thousands on in an industry where many other manufacturers do this, this slightly cringey BM worshipping/saviour attitude isn't helping anyone except those trying to look self righteous because they are operating in a way where they don't need an update so apparently we should all be quiet and be grateful.

See this is where you guys lost me. When you start low key attacking Tim and calling anyone that disagree with you fanboys of BM is immature. There’s a saying. “No one wants to hear the truth from an A-hole” You might be right, but I won’t want to hear it, because you’re coming off as such. I agree that updates would be great. But Tim is not wrong. They never promised Gen 5. When we bought the camera we never knew that GEN 5 was coming. Tim bought the camera with Gen 4 and put it to good use. If you read previous posts by Tim, he was practically begging BM to implement GEN 5 in the G2. You know you can simply go into DaVinci resolve for the time being with GEN 4 and switch it to GEN 5. Now with that said. I do agree with you guys. I have 4 Blackmagic cameras at the moment. I would love GEN 5 on all of them. I’ve been with BM for years since 2013. Been disappointed a few times. Including now. I do feel like they leave fairly new cameras in dust. Gen 5 hopefully should be able to get on these cameras at least Gen 1 and GEN 2 of the Ursa mini’s. History with BM has taught me not to buy the first GEN of any cameras they release. Hopefully they can implement these updates and help to raise the community sentiment about BM, or eventually everyone will be buying Komodo’s like some of you here.

See this is where you guys lost me. When you start low key attacking Tim and calling anyone that disagree with you fanboys of BM is immature. There’s a saying. “No one wants to hear the truth from an A-hole” You might be right, but I won’t want to hear it, because you’re coming off as such.

What are you talking about? No one is attacking Tim and calling anyone but Blackmagic for their lack of product support. I know Tim has been banging the gong on this Gen 5 and G2 issue for a long time, and so have I. The point I am making is that if you or anyone sides with BMD on this matter and just accept the fact that it is okay, there is no gain for the customers (us) and the status quo will remain as it has been since their inception. So far none of this complains and BM bashing has hit their bottom line and until it does, don't expect them to change. But if we just play nice and say it is okay not to have a Gen 5 update because it was never promised, well that is wrong. They never promised a Gen 5 on the Pocket 4/6K but they delivered. Either there is something very limiting and arcane with the G2 that it can no longer be updated or they just don't think your dollars invested in the camera is worth it. Anyway, my principle is that the customer should always be right and have the right to demand support from the manufacturer for products bought. That's my 2 cents on this conversation and debating it further is useless.

See this is where you guys lost me. When you start low key attacking Tim and calling anyone that disagree with you fanboys of BM is immature. There’s a saying. “No one wants to hear the truth from an A-hole” You might be right, but I won’t want to hear it, because you’re coming off as such.

What are you talking about? No one is attacking Tim and calling anyone but Blackmagic for their lack of product support. I know Tim has been banging the gong on this Gen 5 and G2 issue for a long time, and so have I. The point I am making is that if you or anyone sides with BMD on this matter and just accept the fact that it is okay, there is no gain for the customers (us) and the status quo will remain as it has been since their inception. So far none of this complains and BM bashing has hit their bottom line and until it does, don't expect them to change. But if we just play nice and say it is okay not to have a Gen 5 update because it was never promised, well that is wrong. They never promised a Gen 5 on the Pocket 4/6K but they delivered. Either there is something very limiting and arcane with the G2 that it can no longer be updated or they just don't think your dollars invested in the camera is worth it. Anyway, my principle is that the customer should always be right and have the right to demand support from the manufacturer for products bought. That's my 2 cents on this conversation and debating it further is useless.

Thank for this summary.

I have already sent the link to this topic to BMD, so you’ve seen their answer above.

We’ll see what they choose to do.
It will definitely affect a lot of people’s decision wether or not to stay with Blackmagic.

I think part of the problem is the type of remarks we've heard over the years when BMD introduces new technology. Grant said Blackmagic Raw would be coming to older cameras over time, it was added to the Pocket 4K but not the Ursa Mini 4.6K even though the sensor was already profiled. When he introduced updated ATEM Minis he said the new feature of exporting cuts to a Resolve project would come to the older versions as well. It never happened. To be fair, he's a bit more careful with the wording than that, but since we never get to hear the reasoning of why features that were discussed never arrives it can be very frustrating.

That said BMD isn't any worse than other companies. On the contrary, when new features arrive they are free. That is far from the case with brands like Arri, Atomos, Panasonic, Sound Devices etc.