Firmware Update Gen 5 for Ursa Mini Pro G2

I'll buy it because of what they offer when it is announced and released. Not because of potential future firmware updates.
So, I'm not really complaining as it is the camera I wanted to buy when I bought it.

Tim, not everyone is like you who will buy a camera without updates, particularly if those updates means giving the camera functions it should have in the first place when it was released, fixed issues, and will allow the camera to be viable for at least 5 years minimum, especially when it is still being sold as NEW in the marketplace.

"especially when it is still being sold as NEW in the marketplace."

Like Tim and MANY others, I find the G2 to be an amazing camera. I also knew what the specs were when I purchased it. At the moment, I feel no need to upgrade to a newer camera or another brand.

However, since the G2 is still being sold as "new", there is no excuse for not updating the firmware with the most recent Gen 5 Color Science. Whether it's hardware or software, most companies only stop updating once the product is no longer sold, supported, and becomes a legacy product.

Blackmagic designs touts its Generation 5 Color Science and is putting it in their other "sold as new" cameras. It makes no sense to me why they don't update the G2 with this amazing Gen 5 technology. The only thing I can think of is that they don't have the developer skillset to add it to the G2, and or the G2 doesn't have the internal chips/memory capacity to accommodate this particular firmware update.

All that being said, am I disappointed that they haven't updated the firmware? absolutely. Does it make me want to look for another camera? No. In fact, I highly recommend the G2 to others. As was mentioned in other posts, You can use the Gen 5 Color Science within Davinci Resolve. For some though, time is money and this isn't the best solution.

There seems to be little point in me throwing in my 02 cents because
it's clear there are a lot of people asking for the same thing (albeit, in varying levels of kindness! Sheesh!)

But I will also lament. It is very problematic to try and provide two separate preview LUTS to your crew or your editor simply because we don't have an update for a tone curve in the G2. I'm simplifying, surely. But nonetheless, it's not so much about supporting the G2 beyond what I payed for - it's about making the entire BM ecosystem and the current camera offerings something that can be easily adopted in professional workflows and work harmoniously. I have been dealing with this stumbling block continually while using my pocket 6k pro and g2 together. Literally, I don't care about a single other update for the G2 except for this.
If the limitations come down to implementation of other firmware features, such as RGB histogram, it would be maddening to not get Gen5 because these other features don't port well.

I personally don't have any trouble pulling footage I shot into Resolve and selecting the Gen 5 science that way. But not so for the people I regularly have to work for who don't use Resolve, or have extremely limited knowledge when it comes to camera science, camera RAW, etc...

All I want for Christmas is Gen 5 on my G2.

Anyhow, all that said. My hat is continually tipped to BM because they have been very good to me. That won't change, but hopefully this G2 gets a little love.

Other than not having Gen5 is the Ursa G2, it is shame that I still have to use physical marks for 1x1 and 9x16 frame guides.

With instagram playing a major role in ads nowadays, It is shame that a camera still being sold does not have major frame guides to help its users deliver a project for an important platform.

Hey, I say attack me all you want. But please do so respectfully.

Now I would also point out I also post crazy ideas often and come with hopes for future products on a regular basis. I’m a dreamer. There is so much potential I see. I post it so that I can inspire Blackmagic with ideas.

I’m still hoping my next camera has some of the various updates I’ve suggested. Things like Wireless Video Assist Control, Wireless Video Implementation, Wireless Lens Control, etc. i mean there’s so many things I’ve proposed over the years. So I’m going to keep dreaming…


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IMAX

IMAXvsFF.jpeg (71.04 KiB) Viewed 13621 times

My argument about "Netflix Approved" is that I only care about IMAX. But look at where we are with digital sensors vs where we got to with film.

So the URSA Mini Pro 12K is pretty much 3P / 35mm. Everyone wants "Full Frame" and that's basically 8P / 35mm. So when we get a digital sensor able to be the size of 15P / 70mm then we will finally have arrived. And, that will be IMAX Approved... And, Christopher Nolan Approved.

INSERT GIF OF CHRISTOPHER NOLAN WINKING

IMAXvsFF.jpeg

My argument about "Netflix Approved" is that I only care about IMAX. But look at where we are with digital sensors vs where we got to with film.

So the URSA Mini Pro 12K is pretty much 3P / 35mm. Everyone wants "Full Frame" and that's basically 8P / 35mm. So when we get a digital sensor able to be the size of 15P / 70mm then we will finally have arrived. And, that will be IMAX Approved... And, Christopher Nolan Approved.

INSERT GIF OF CHRISTOPHER NOLAN WINKING

This is a bit out of topic here.

IMAXvsFF.jpeg

My argument about "Netflix Approved" is that I only care about IMAX. But look at where we are with digital sensors vs where we got to with film.

So the URSA Mini Pro 12K is pretty much 3P / 35mm. Everyone wants "Full Frame" and that's basically 8P / 35mm. So when we get a digital sensor able to be the size of 15P / 70mm then we will finally have arrived. And, that will be IMAX Approved... And, Christopher Nolan Approved.

INSERT GIF OF CHRISTOPHER NOLAN WINKING

This is a bit out of topic here.

Only slightly because the whole "Netflix Approved" list was mentioned before on here. Mainly how the 12K isn't on it but the G2 is. And, I was having a bit of fun with people.

Either way, tomorrow I have an interview I'm shooting. URSA Mini Pro G2 and Pocket 6K Pro paired together. The situation is I'll shoot BRAW and update the Sidecar in Resolve for the G2 so that it defaults to Color Science 5 when the files are loaded. Currently that's the only method to achieve this when having to hand off the files.

Again, I'm now looking towards the future cameras. If the G2 gets an update it will be most welcome. But, I'm not going to hold my breath for it.

So today I did the UMPG2 and P6KPro together for an interview. Brought both into Resolve and using Project Settings to interpret BRAW as Gen 5, ignore LUT, use Extended Video, and tick a few boxes like Highlight Recovery and Gamut Compression. When I compared the files I found they matched. I then chose Clip Settings on the G2 footage, and tapped Update Sidecar throughout the entire range of clips for the interview.

I'm sending the RAW to the client, and will include those Sidecar files. I've also exported UHD ProRes Proxy clips for them to use as Proxies in Premiere. The whole process was painless.

The most painful thing is that I have to do these extra steps. But, it isn't any different from doing a simple DIT color match check anyways.

So today I did the UMPG2 and P6KPro together for an interview. Brought both into Resolve and using Project Settings to interpret BRAW as Gen 5, ignore LUT, use Extended Video, and tick a few boxes like Highlight Recovery and Gamut Compression. When I compared the files I found they matched. I then chose Clip Settings on the G2 footage, and tapped Update Sidecar throughout the entire range of clips for the interview.

I'm sending the RAW to the client, and will include those Sidecar files. I've also exported UHD ProRes Proxy clips for them to use as Proxies in Premiere. The whole process was painless.

The most painful thing is that I have to do these extra steps. But, it isn't any different from doing a simple DIT color match check anyways.

We are talking about shooting and offloading native Gen5 footage while shooting in ProRes.

Indeed, shooting BRaw offer a flexibility in that sens but we don’t always have the possibility to follow all these steps and sometimes need to offload all ProRes files from each camera to send to the client or editor, so Gen5 need to be embedded into the footage.

I think the reality we have to face when investing into BM cameras is that they make a camera, send it out to the market, then immediately begin working on its successor with no more real regard to maintaining or catering to previous models. Which I’ve accepted as the cameras are good but what you buy is usually what you’re left with

Which seems to be a viable business model, but not very good in the ecological sense.
But then, it takes a lot of resources the way Arri or Red do it, which normally shows in the price levels. Let's see how much love the Komodo will get after a year or two.
Oh, and I wonder how buyers of that Hydrogen experiment feel today…

Not exactly....

There are many examples where features that weren't announced at launch were added after initial release.

The only maybe have one or two cycles of this though.

JB

I was rather thinking about repair, not only firmware upgrades.

Maybe Firmware 7.6 will be the one. They just did 7.5 for the new URSA Broadcast G2. That has the 6K sensor from the Pockets in the URSA Broadcast Body. There's some nice little UI updates in there as well.

And, I checked and the G1 one got some updates the G2 never got. So there's small hope that those updates could come to the G2 still. 2+ years without an update however, so I'm not holding too much hope.

Still, the new Broadcast update also has me looking at the next URSA. Could be interesting to see where they go next.

I don’t know, most people here are smarter than me so their opinions will more valid with more insight, but I can only go from a general feeling from the blackmagic owners I know, which is a lot. The general vibe is, hey, we can get cool images from a camera we can afford but none of them really feel safe or secure in regards to help if anything goes wrong outside of warranty, pretty much accepting they have to insurance claim elsewhere. This is a little bit left of the original al point, but it ties in with the community feeling that each camera is showcased with great fanfare and then updates are usually null and then the efforts shift to the next craze leaving us current owners a little bit insecure about our purchase. It’s the business I guess, I just know my friends and community don’t feel this way with other brands (other issues present) but they generally feel taken care of once they commit to being a customer of what ever brand their with.

Still does not explain why the BMPCC4K which came out a year earlier than the Ursa Mini G2 has firmware update with all the latest features and Gen 5 colour.

So the new ursa broadcast g2 support GEN5, why the ursa g2 4.6k don't!? All of us are asking for an update. Gen4 on the g2 4.6k is still amazing but c'mon, a camera that cost 6k with no update in 2 years?

So the new ursa broadcast g2 support GEN5, why the ursa g2 4.6k don't!? All of us are asking for an update. Gen4 on the g2 4.6k is still amazing but c'mon, a camera that cost 6k with no update in 2 years?

+1. If there is a technical or business reason, whatever that may be, BMD owes to communicate to their customers as to their reasoning. We are smart enough to know if the reason is valid, BS, but deserve one. It’s long overdue Grant, especially with the URSA broadcast G2 supporting gen5.

The way Blackmagic operates is off the Ari Gold Playbook:
[GIF with profanity removed]
Apologies for the curse in the GIF. Only one I could find that had exactly the moment in the show when he said it.

The way Blackmagic operates is off the Ari Gold Playbook:
[GIF with profanity removed]
Apologies for the curse in the GIF. Only one I could find that had exactly the moment in the show when he said it.

Ah, bummer, the GIF was removed. I wish I could find one of that exact moment without the profanity. Such a good quote. But Ari was pretty vulgar with his language in that show.

"Silence is Golden."

UMP G1 user here! It’s a shame that Gen5 is not available in the G1 and even more in the G2. I really hope that BMD team is working on a firmware update for this two amazing cameras asap. The funny thing is that i sold my BMPCC 4K to buy the UMP G1, and nowadays the Pocket is supporting Gen5 while the Ursa is not

UMP G1 user here! It’s a shame that Gen5 is not available in the G1 and even more in the G2. I really hope that BMD team is working on a firmware update for this two amazing cameras asap. The funny thing is that i sold my BMPCC 4K to buy the UMP G1, and nowadays the Pocket is supporting Gen5 while the Ursa is not

Same Here, sold my bmpcc 6k and bought the G2, and Im not able to shot with Gen5.

I've wrote an email a few days ago asking if there will be an Update in the near future, this is what they replied:

"We are unable to discuss the development process of our product range but we always welcome customer feedback.

I'm sorry but there is no information we can make public yet regarding the Gen 5 update to the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2.

You should be able to use Gen 5 Blackmagic RAW on this camera by updating the RAW settings from colour science Gen 4 to Gen 5 in DaVinci Resolve if you wish. However, we are aware there is no feature available at this current time to do this with Apple ProRes."

So..To me it seems that they are working on an Update, but I don't know how long this will take..

Today I got an e-mail from Blackmagic about the gen5 update:

“ I assure you our developers are aware of this and are looking into the feasibility of this in a future firmware update.”

At the moment if you want Gen 5 colour with ProRes on a Ursa Mini body you have to downgrade to the UM G2 Broadcast camera. That is not protecting your product line but going backward. Pocket 4k is a year older than the UMP G2 and that got Gen 5 colour, again that is not protecting your product line but going backward.

Hi, something new about G2 URSA update?

Hi, something new about G2 URSA update?

Nothing.

Hi, something new about G2 URSA update?

If you want to hold your breath for a Christmas Miracle maybe... but otherwise, I'd breath and accept nothing. Next year we'll see a release of new cameras more than likely and it will be time for us to move on.

And one more update for the Ursa 12K.
Nice gift before Christmas.
Ursa G2 owners are still waiting since 2 years now…

This morning’s answer from Blackmagic Support Team :

This morning’s answer from Blackmagic Support Team :

I think it is time to face the music and accept there will be no updates for the G2. Consider it EOL and prepare for the next camera to come after the 12K. Again, I think it will be upgraded body with 12K sensor (or 16K using 12K pixel design and moving to VistaVision sensor size) and bringing a lot of amazing improvements to the build of the camera.

The UMPG2 has served me well the last 2.5 years despite no updates. At least it works perfectly fine. I still prefer it over my Pocket 6K cams.

Please scroll a few posts up and read my post. Jake Cook, a Blackmagic Camera Support Specialist, told me this:

"I assure you our developers are aware of this and are looking into the feasibility of this in a future firmware update.”

I'm a heavy UMP G2 user and wouldn't give it up for the UMP12K even in the coming future. For me, even they are now priced the same, they have different use cases and workflow needs. So, with some cases it wouldn't make sense to buy a UM12K instead of the UMP G2 just because it is the same price and 12K. For one, it's different sensor technology and the extra workflow load will be unnecessary. However, I have given up the hope the G2 will even get updated anymore. It's a great camera for what I do and my workflow. BM is still marketing the camera on their product site and authorize vendors still actively sells them. It will be a shame that new buyers cannot expect any much more from BM in the sense of update and if it gets discontinued anytime soon especially for those who just bought the camera recently or weeks before when it will be taken down. That will be a sad surprise and will not be fair at all. But unfortunately, it does happen with BM products all the time.

BMD also delayed bringing screen calibration to the Video Assist even though the means to have that done already existed for about 6 months. This is not a technology limitation issue. Someone at the top like Grant need to make that call.

It’s definitely a matter of choice, not of technical or hardware limitations.

I think we are all waiting for Gen5 in the Ursa G2!

This AND custom grame guides!

I really want to be able to use 1x1, 9x16 and custom frame guides (all available in other cameras) in the G2.

Blackmagic has let us down since 3 years.
It would be a miracle if they release a new firmware update for the Ursa G2.

Over on the Resolve features forum there was someone demanding why there wasn't an 18 version already, even though to me, coming from Avidland I think BMDs pace of development is electric. Some people seem unable to make proper films until they have a box camera or a huge megapixel sensor even though most cameras already surpass 35mm framesize and resolution and picture quality differences are almost meaningless now and everything I see looks very similar from Youtube to Indie. The point I'm making is to always long for tomorrow means you'll take your eye off today.

I'm old enough to have cut and filmed with actual celluloid film and then lived and worked through all the broadcast eng era. And just now returning to production after 10 years away and buying the Ursa Broadcast G2, I must be the only person in the world who doesn't give a fig for impossibly shallow depth of field and mega mega pixels. It has seemed to me ever since the paradigm was 'borrowed' from actual film that Eng cameras with filmlike settings, e.g. Varicam, were analogous to reversal, i.e settings/look baked in. And Raw worflows more like negative film. But if the analogy were more closely applied, there would be an international standard for a neutral sensor spec and the 'color science' would applicable and interchangeable with all cameras that followed the standard, i.e. you could choose different 'filmstocks'. ISO similarly is pretty meaningless to me, since any way you film it, it's just ADC gain, which to my mind is properly represented in Db. But I haven't grown up with ISO in digital video so maybe that makes me old and alone too.

I think in the sub 10K and particularly sub 5K dollar market, there are inevitably compromises (I remember paying over £30k for SD lens and cameras each) and it is unrealistic to expect new developments can be retro fitted to existing models. I would finally say, respectfully, this whole Netflix thing is irrelevant - the only people worried about it, have not and are unlikely to be commissioned by Netflix, if they are and wish everyone the best of luck, then it will absolutely mute. I would not buy gear for bragging rights but to make stuff, any stuff, now with what you've got when you read the specs before purchase. All the best and disregard my 2 cents if it irritates you please, I mean no offence - it's just my lonely opinion.

This topic has been created since exactly 1 year and the Ursa G2 is out since 3 years.
Blackmagic hasn't made a single move about this.
Very disappointing.

Still waiting

I gave up and bought the Broadcast G2 today....

I have reached out to the BMD support team today.
Again, this is the same answer...

“I'm afraid we still have no news from our development team regarding Gen 5 colour science on the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2.
I'm sorry that this is taking some time. We regularly ask the development team for updates in regards to this but we have not been provided any information or timescales for this implementation.”

“I can understand your concerns and frustrations in regards to this but I cannot comment on the future of this unit as I do not have the information you are asking for at this time.
As mentioned, the request for Gen 5 colour science on this unit is something we are aware of and something that is brought up to us often. I can only raise this again to the development team on your behalf.
We have not been provided any information or timescales for this implementation, so I am unable to make definitive statements to you about the future of the camera.”

I have reached out to the BMD support team today.
Again, this is the same answer...

“I'm afraid we still have no news from our development team regarding Gen 5 colour science on the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2.
I'm sorry that this is taking some time. We regularly ask the development team for updates in regards to this but we have not been provided any information or timescales for this implementation.”

“I can understand your concerns and frustrations in regards to this but I cannot comment on the future of this unit as I do not have the information you are asking for at this time.
As mentioned, the request for Gen 5 colour science on this unit is something we are aware of and something that is brought up to us often. I can only raise this again to the development team on your behalf.
We have not been provided any information or timescales for this implementation, so I am unable to make definitive statements to you about the future of the camera.”

Sad!

Has anybody talked to them about this at NAAM Boot ?

Strangely disapointing.
Anyway G2 is still a fine camera, was looking for upgrading the otherday...
I would need 15 to 20+k€ to have the same features in 2022 (codec, dynamic range, slow mo, color science, workflow).

So my next update.... might be an Ursa G3 24x36 3:2 when It will show up (let's be honest, it will happen)

Has anybody talked to them about this at NAAM Boot ?

Strangely disapointing.
Anyway G2 is still a fine camera, was looking for upgrading the otherday...
I would need 15 to 20+k€ to have the same features in 2022 (codec, dynamic range, slow mo, color science, workflow).

So my next update.... might be an Ursa G3 24x36 3:2 when It will show up (let's be honest, it will happen)

I don’t think it’s going to happen. You might want to look at the UMP Broadcast G2 which has Gen 5 and the P6K sensor. It comes with EF mount and is 2K cheaper. It has its limitations in comparison with the UMP 4.6K G2. I wished it had a Film mode switch that changes Gain control to ISO control and other film mode features. But others here have good experience with it. I don’t have it and I have the UMP 4.6K G2 as I mostly do narrative projects.

Right now your G3 is pretty much wishful thinking…. at least for a couple of years. I hope I’m wrong.

UMP g1 ( i how it) and UMP g2 had different sensor and with FPN which struggle with many people (not me, i knwo how to expose it), and evolution along sensors like pockets and new WWWRGB of 12k is the most commercial and quality direction that bmd can follow.

i understand people, me too with g1 i would like to have Gen5, but it's possible to do a lut to mimic that result, i saw in another post a lut from captain hook (if i remember correctly) for prores, if you shoot in Braw is a simple setup on preference of Resolve (or you can do a sidecar for other softwares).

to be honest i prefer a simple update to have zoom pinch like i had on pockets, waveform on camera than gen 5, but everyone had his needs

It is bizarre that a the G1 has a more updated firmware than the G2 camera...

I can't think of any other manufacture that gives new features to older cameras (like the custom frame lines) and skips the currently sold model.

It is bizarre that a the G1 has a more updated firmware than the G2 camera...

I can't think of any other manufacture that gives new features to older cameras (like the custom frame lines) and skips the currently sold model.

Right, from what i know g2 had better processor and better cooling that allow with the same sensor to shoot higher frame rate (like um4k that had same sensor of bmpc4k but reach 60fps against 30fps of bmpc4k).
i was surpriced from updated ump g1 against g2.

Oh, I gave up hope a long time ago.

BMD needs to treat its camera owner right. Just imagine even Sigma, who is not a big cine camera maker, even still support their several years old Sigma FP with a new firmware update that just came out today. This camera is so old compared to the BMPCC Pocket 4K and the UMP G1, yet Sigma has given it some love.

https://nofilmschool.com/sigma-firmware ... -425352465

Why can't BMD do the same? And here is the kicker. The camera is still in circulation and selling as "new" ware. I'm taking about the UMP 4.6K G2. And the fact that they can even update the G1 and give it new functionality like for example custom guides and not on the G2 is questionable.

Yes, this is a hopeless plea. But being that there are no new cameras and the 12K is not even selling very well, why not put some attention to the UMP G2.

Just a thought. Since there is no new BMD camera that's interesting and within affordability, I think with the new 4.0 firmware for the FP, and possibly a future firmware that might just give 4K DCI to this little camera, it may not be a bad idea to get one to have a full frame very portable for gimbal and drone, and a cam-B camera (or cam-A / C whatever suits). You'll probably need the Delkin Juggler 2TB filming in CinemaDNG but at 12-bit uncompressed.