begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Casper75

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:10 pm
  • Real Name: Zephiros Duranus

begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostSun Mar 21, 2021 11:28 am

Hello.
I just get my pocket 6k pro.
I love the menu, that look so simple, but I have two questions.

What is the "video / extended video / film " choice ?
I thought it was some LUT before I get the camera.
But it's call "dynamic range " in the record setting...
That don't mean anything for me, + in RAW mode, no setting are supposed to influence on the image (Except some metadata )


Other problem : i thought it was possible to record in 4K prores without cropping, using the full size of the sensor, it seems to be impossible
Offline

smunaut

  • Posts: 258
  • Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:15 pm
  • Real Name: Sylvain Munaut

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostSun Mar 21, 2021 12:39 pm

Casper75 wrote:What is the "video / extended video / film " choice ?
I thought it was some LUT before I get the camera.
But it's call "dynamic range " in the record setting...
That don't mean anything for me, + in RAW mode, no setting are supposed to influence on the image (Except some metadata )


It does affect the recording. If you intend to color grade later on, you should stick to "Film" AFAIU.
You can actually see the histogram change when you change this value. (And the histogram shows what actually gets recorded).


Casper75 wrote:Other problem : i thought it was possible to record in 4K prores without cropping, using the full size of the sensor, it seems to be impossible


Mmm, yeah it should be. Although only up to 50 fps.
At 60 fps it should get scaled from 5.7k instead of full sensors.

Image
Ryzen 3700X - AMD R570X / NVidia RTX2700Super (switching between the 2) - Linux
Offline
User avatar

Robert Niessner

  • Posts: 3510
  • Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:51 am
  • Location: Graz, Austria

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostSun Mar 21, 2021 12:42 pm

Do yourself a favor and read the user manual - this will clear up a lot of things ;)
Download Manual
Saying "Thx for help!" is not a crime.
--------------------------------
Robert Niessner
LAUFBILDkommission
Graz / Austria
--------------------------------
Blackmagic Camera Blog (German):
http://laufbildkommission.wordpress.com

Read the blog in English via Google Translate:
http://tinyurl.com/pjf6a3m
Offline

John Paines

  • Posts: 4222
  • Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:04 pm

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostSun Mar 21, 2021 1:15 pm

For the record, all braw recordings are "film". Video and extended video are metadata which can be changed back to "film" in the Resolve's raw tab.

This is not true for Prores recordings, where the choice of "video" or "extended video" is final, or for braw recordings where you're using a display LUT and have turned on "apply LUT in file". Those choices can't be undone.
Offline

musashie

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:19 am
  • Real Name: daithi Shioniur

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostSun Mar 21, 2021 3:07 pm

Posted Elsewhere but no reply. My 6k pro internal cooling fan sound a little loud. A buzzing sound on top of normal fan acoustics. Anyone else notice this?
Offline

Matthew_Lawrence

  • Posts: 145
  • Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:41 am

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostSun Mar 21, 2021 9:21 pm

musashie wrote:Posted Elsewhere but no reply. My 6k pro internal cooling fan sound a little loud. A buzzing sound on top of normal fan acoustics. Anyone else notice this?


I'm currently awaiting a replacement for another issue, but my first one wasn't too bad in terms of fan noise although I don't have the OG 6k so not much to compare it to.

I posted a link to this video testing it on another thread about the fan noise:


He concludes that on his unit it's not an issue unless relying on internal mic. I'd say the same for my first unit too.
Offline

Casper75

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:10 pm
  • Real Name: Zephiros Duranus

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostTue Mar 23, 2021 10:54 am

Ok thank.
I understood that "dynamic range" is like a LUT that don't wear her name. Certainly in order to use an other LUT in addition if needed ( stylistic LUT ).

In 4K prores, I can't use the full sensor, even if i'm in 25fps or less. I'm limited to 5.7k
However, it's possible in UHD (And it's a good compromise for my computer)
Offline

Casper75

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:10 pm
  • Real Name: Zephiros Duranus

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostWed Mar 24, 2021 5:07 am

Ok UHD is very close from 4K, but it shares the same aspect ratio as the 6k
[3840 / 2160 ] = [6144 / 3456 ]. THat explain all

----------------------


Other remark : the higher the resolution is, the less focus picking appears.
The point is very visible in HD... hard to use in UHD. :(
Even if I increased the focus peaking to the maximum on the LCD setting
Last edited by Casper75 on Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

Ellory Yu

  • Posts: 2148
  • Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostWed Mar 24, 2021 5:27 am

I don't have the BMPCC4K so can you do BRAW and Prores 4K DCI in full sensor on the P4K?
MSI Raider X99 MB / Intel i7 5280 6 core CPU / 2 x AMD R9 390X 8Gb GPU / 32Gb 3200 RAM / Decklink 4K Mini Monitor / 240Gb SSD OS Drive / 4Tb RAID 0 SSD Cache/Scratch Drive / 24Tb 7200rpm Data Drive / Win 10 Pro 64bit / Resolve 17
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 14523
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostWed Mar 24, 2021 5:55 am

Yes. The various resolutions and codecs are documented on the BMD website Tech Specs page for the BMPCC4K.
Rick Lang
Offline

Casper75

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:10 pm
  • Real Name: Zephiros Duranus

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostWed Mar 31, 2021 11:34 pm

other question :
When I take some video in RAW with LUT, where are the metadata ? How to disable the LUT ?

Other thing :
When I take photos, it add a LUT automatiquely.
How to take photos in "gen5" log ? Without LUT...

And :
I love the jpeg showed when I open the dng with "preview", instead of resolve or photoshop.
I would like to find this profil somewhere, to edit with

Other problem :

All the braw file are randomly showed as "offline". Even if it's a new projet.
Even if video are on internal SSD
Offline
User avatar

Jamie LeJeune

  • Posts: 1360
  • Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:33 am
  • Location: San Francisco

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostThu Apr 01, 2021 3:49 am

Casper75 wrote:When I take some video in RAW with LUT, where are the metadata ? How to disable the LUT ?
The metadata is in the BRAW file itself. This metadata can be superseded by the data inside a .sidecar file which is an easily readable JSON format that can be edited in any text editor. You can disable the LUT via a .sidecar file or by using any app that supports BRAW — Resolve, Premiere Pro, Avid, EditReady, etc.
Casper75 wrote:When I take photos, it add a LUT automatiquely.
Stills will be single BRAW frames that have whatever metadata you have selected in the menu. If you have toggled the menu option to to "embed 3D LUT" it will be there in the metadata. If not, it won't be there. The user has complete control.
Casper75 wrote:How to take photos in "gen5" log ? Without LUT...
At the moment, the only cameras that embed Gen5 decode in BRAW metadata are the 6K Pocket Pro and the 12K URSA Mini Pro. All other cameras that record BRAW, they can be set to decode to Gen5 in any app that supports BRAW (or via editing of a .sidecar file). BMD has officially stated that Gen5 will be the default in camera in a future firmware update coming to the 4K pocket and the 6K Pocket.

Also, to clear up some confusion earlier in the thread — the Extended Video and Video options in the menu are not LUTs. They are default decode options for BRAW. Take a look inside Resolve and you can see many other decode options, including options like ARRI LogC AWG. BRAW is a raw format. You as the user have to choose the transfer function and gamut to which it will be decoded (otherwise it will default to the option set in camera metadata). In camera there are only three decode options — BMD Film, Extended Video. and Video. In post applications that support BRAW (and also via the editing of sidecar metadata) there are many more options for the decode. It is a very useful and adaptable design.
www.cinedocs.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4601572/
Offline

Casper75

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:10 pm
  • Real Name: Zephiros Duranus

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostThu Apr 01, 2021 10:41 am

Thank for this explication on dynamic range mode.


Jamie LeJeune wrote:You can disable the LUT via a .sidecar file or by using any app that supports BRAW — Resolve, Premiere Pro, Avid, EditReady, etc.


Ok i finaly found the Raw table to do it

Jamie LeJeune wrote:If you have toggled the menu option to to "embed 3D LUT" it will be there in the metadata. If not, it won't be there. The user has complete control.


For the photos, applying LUT don’t change anything
I disable the LUT on screen.
I disable embed 3d LUT
I put dynamic range in film mode
Then i go to raw table :
IN all case camera apply a REC 709 color space without LUT.
And I can’t choose gamma ( film, video, extendend video ) like in Braw




Other Real mystery : WHen i open DNG pictures with preview, they are fantastic. I don’t know how the camera generate this profil for preview, and why
Offline
User avatar

Jamie LeJeune

  • Posts: 1360
  • Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:33 am
  • Location: San Francisco

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostThu Apr 01, 2021 10:58 am

Casper75 wrote:For the photos, applying LUT don’t change anything
I disable the LUT on screen.
I disable embed 3d LUT
I put dynamic range in film mode
Then i go to raw table :
IN all case camera apply a REC 709 color space without LUT.
And I can’t choose gamma ( film, video, extendend video ) like in Braw

Other Real mystery : WHen i open DNG pictures with preview, they are fantastic. I don’t know how the camera generate this profil for preview, and why

Please forgive me, I understood that you meant the time-lapse function. You meant the still button. Got it. That is a totally different thing than the video files recorded in ProRes or BRAW. The still capture button simply records single DNG frames the same as you would get from a digital photo camera. So, none of the BRAW color processing and metadata applies to those files. AFAIK the image you see on screen when opening those DNG stills in Preview is the same default transform applied to any other digital photo camera DNG.
www.cinedocs.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4601572/
Offline

Casper75

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:10 pm
  • Real Name: Zephiros Duranus

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostThu Apr 01, 2021 4:27 pm

Jamie LeJeune wrote:The still capture button simply records single DNG frames the same as you would get from a digital photo camera. So, none of the BRAW color processing and metadata applies to those files.


but these capture are supposed to be "reference" picture for filming, and we can't apply the same setting from vidéo. Sad

Jamie LeJeune wrote: DNG stills in Preview is the same default transform applied to any other digital photo camera DNG.


How to know the name of the profil ?
When i use "bmpcc6k 5gen" (the only profil proposed for these pic in adobe raw), it's realy hard to get some nice pictures as the preview pictures are. They are dynamic, sharp, colored, natural... i can't explain, but i like these photos
Offline
User avatar

Jamie LeJeune

  • Posts: 1360
  • Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:33 am
  • Location: San Francisco

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostThu Apr 01, 2021 10:16 pm

I honestly have no idea why the DNG stills function was included in the pocket cameras. If you are shooting images as a color reference, I'd record BRAW since the display of BRAW files is consistent and controllable in all apps that support BRAW. That is not the case with DNG, and there's nothing BMD (nor any other manufacturer) can do about that. BRAW is consistently displayed because it is always decoded based on the BRAW SDK. Since DNG is simply open source with no SDK there is no way to ensure any consistency in how it is decoded and displayed in different applications.

Read the posts by BMD's Captain Hook in this thread for more info the post processing of BRAW and DNG:
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138074
www.cinedocs.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4601572/
Offline

Casper75

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:10 pm
  • Real Name: Zephiros Duranus

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostTue Apr 06, 2021 4:36 pm

The fact is that the camera produce a JPEG preview with a certain color space.
THen, the RAW image contained in the DNG is read with an other color space :cry:

It's opened with the color profil ( Black Magic Pocket, Color Science Gen 5 ) in resolve or photoshop.
So what is the color profil used by the camera to create a JPEG preview, if it's different ?
Offline

Casper75

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:10 pm
  • Real Name: Zephiros Duranus

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostTue Apr 06, 2021 11:28 pm

cmd + i on the DNG show these informations :
color space : RGB
color profil : Display-P3

What is DCI-P3 ? Different from REC 709 ? THis can explain the different colors between preview and resolve ?
Offline

Howard Roll

  • Posts: 1227
  • Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:50 am

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostWed Apr 07, 2021 10:47 am

Display P3 is an Appleized P3 display gamut with srgb/709 white point and what looks to be the same funky curve from 709a.

Apple Preview doesn't know what to do with DNG, it's interpretation should not be considered an accurate metric.

preview.jpg
preview.jpg (23.47 KiB) Viewed 155 times


Good Luck
Offline

drknsss

  • Posts: 32
  • Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:46 am
  • Real Name: Gordon Culley

Re: begginer questions (BMPCC 6K pro)

PostWed Apr 07, 2021 7:52 pm

This post is packed with loads of information I don't need to know but was interesting to read! So many patient and helpful people in this community!

i read the manual too but it's a lot of info to take in at once and you can't bust out the manual while on a shoot (or can you? :D ) Sometimes asking a question based on an specific outcome like the original OP can be helpful.

And in the words of Robert N. "(Re-)Read the manual"

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests