Affordable filters?

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bmpcc6k

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Affordable filters?

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 10:55 am

I need to buy 2 different type filters like
1. Hollywood Black Magic 1/2 or Tiffen Black Pro Mist
2. Schneider true streak blue 2mm or Nisi Allure-Streak Blue Filter 2mm

But all these filters are too expensive. I found the affordable alternative can be
1. Dream FX Filters
2. Flare FX Filters

What's your thoughts, does PrismLensFX - Dream & Flare filters better solution wih high quality and low cost?
In the market are other affordable options?
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Brad Hurley

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Re: Affordable filters?

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 11:22 am

Too bad you didn't post this question a week ago -- Formatt-Hitech had an Easter sale on their Black Supermist diffusion filters; you could get a set of 4 for roughly USD $200. That's only slightly more than the cost of one Hollywood Black Magic 77mm filter.

Two important question, though:

1. Do you want to buy cinema-format rectangular filters for use in a matte box or are you buying screw-in filters that attach directly to the lens? Big price differences there.

2. Why do you want filters and what specific qualities are you looking for? You can achieve some of these effects in post, and filters bake in their effects. On the other hand filters are a fast way to achieve a particular look that can be difficult or time-consuming to duplicate exactly in post.
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bmpcc6k

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Re: Affordable filters?

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 11:55 am

Brad Hurley wrote:Too bad you didn't post this question a week ago -- Formatt-Hitech had an Easter sale on their Black Supermist diffusion filters; you could get a set of 4 for roughly USD $200. That's only slightly more than the cost of one Hollywood Black Magic 77mm filter.

Two important question, though:

1. Do you want to buy cinema-format rectangular filters for use in a matte box or are you buying screw-in filters that attach directly to the lens? Big price differences there.

2. Why do you want filters and what specific qualities are you looking for? You can achieve some of these effects in post, and filters bake in their effects. On the other hand filters are a fast way to achieve a particular look that can be difficult or time-consuming to duplicate exactly in post.


I miss it.

1. I am planning to use in a matte box, but if they are too expensite i will buy 77/82mm filter ones.
2. I wan't it because it's more professionl and i am ready to spend money for that. I don't wan't to achieve those effects in post. I need filters which give glow/mist effect and anamorphic blue flares 2mm.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Affordable filters?

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 12:05 pm

Search in used market
Low quality filter, especially in promist category Are! Split in two different result:
- Blur all
- Soft small dectails but keep sharpness
Or try to find good quality smaller to put directly on lenses.
Unfortunately I never found low cost and quality on same time of filter, and remember that this i a first thing that influence you quality picture, light hot and go through filter before to to go in lens and hit sensor.


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bmpcc6k

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Re: Affordable filters?

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 12:07 pm

carlomacchiavello wrote:Search in used market
Low quality filter, especially in promist category Are! Split in two different result:
- Blur all
- Soft small dectails but keep sharpness
Or try to find good quality smaller to put directly on lenses.
Unfortunately I never found low cost and quality on same time of filter, and remember that this i a first thing that influence you quality picture, light hot and go through filter before to to go in lens and hit sensor.


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I had a research on ebay and couldn't find any used/affordable filters mentioned in above.
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Brad Hurley

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Re: Affordable filters?

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 12:30 pm

bmpcc6k wrote:I miss it.


Actually the sale is still on until tomorrow (12 April); try entering the code SPRING20 at checkout and see if it gives you the 20% discount. https://www.formatt-hitech.com/cinema/b ... circle-kit

This gets you four strengths of their Black Supermist, which is similar (but not identical) to some of the other diffusion filters you mentioned. One thing to watch out for with filters like this is that they can produce speckled bokeh (small dots in out-of-focus highlights) under some situations. I don't know if these particular filters do that, but I've seen it with the Hollywood Black Magic filters -- they use small pores to achieve the diffusion and those pores end up being visible in the bokeh under some situations.

You will see huge price differences between rectangular cinema filters and screw-in filters; it's because the rectangular filters use a lot more glass. You can of course screw in a filter and still use the lens in a matte box; the cinema filters are faster to switch in and out but they're larger, more expensive, and more fragile.

I'm not sure these filters are more "professional," but they can come in handy for some effects. If all you want to do is reduce contrast and soften skin tones, that can be easily done with Resolve's built-in tools, but most diffusion filters affect multiple aspects of an image at once (including blooming and halation effects to highlights) and thus can be an efficient way to achieve a particular effect that you want.
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bmpcc6k

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Re: Affordable filters?

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 2:58 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:
bmpcc6k wrote:I miss it.


Actually the sale is still on until tomorrow (12 April); try entering the code SPRING20 at checkout and see if it gives you the 20% discount. https://www.formatt-hitech.com/cinema/b ... circle-kit

This gets you four strengths of their Black Supermist, which is similar (but not identical) to some of the other diffusion filters you mentioned. One thing to watch out for with filters like this is that they can produce speckled bokeh (small dots in out-of-focus highlights) under some situations. I don't know if these particular filters do that, but I've seen it with the Hollywood Black Magic filters -- they use small pores to achieve the diffusion and those pores end up being visible in the bokeh under some situations.

You will see huge price differences between rectangular cinema filters and screw-in filters; it's because the rectangular filters use a lot more glass. You can of course screw in a filter and still use the lens in a matte box; the cinema filters are faster to switch in and out but they're larger, more expensive, and more fragile.

I'm not sure these filters are more "professional," but they can come in handy for some effects. If all you want to do is reduce contrast and soften skin tones, that can be easily done with Resolve's built-in tools, but most diffusion filters affect multiple aspects of an image at once (including blooming and halation effects to highlights) and thus can be an efficient way to achieve a particular effect that you want.


I will do some research before deciding to purchase or not black-supermist-circle-kit, but agree it's definitely cheaper than filters made for matte box.

Maybe you know which is the strength (1/8,1/4,1/2?) for the dream fx filter?

After having conversation with you i guess you don't know some cheaper alternative for getting anamorphic flares as NiSi and Schneider filters do?
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Re: Affordable filters?

PostSun Apr 11, 2021 3:59 pm

bmpcc6k wrote:After having conversation with you i guess you don't know some cheaper alternative for getting anamorphic flares as NiSi and Schneider filters do?


Sorry, I don't have any interest in anamorphic lenses or emulating them so I haven't looked into this!
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Re: Affordable filters?

PostMon Apr 12, 2021 1:40 am

I have the Hollywood Black Magic 1. Initially using it with the Pocket 4K I loved it, but as I used it more, I realized that the pattern of its microlenslets is a bit too random to give a uniform halation. As a result – depending on the T-stop of the lens – the effect of the lenslets appears like how tiny raindrops might halate light sources in the frame. Not sure whether this is specific to the “1” strength or the round screw-in design.

This effect is odd, considering the Hollywood Black Magics are combination of Schneider’s HD Classic Softs and 1/8 Black Frost. The Black Frost layer should typically be responsible for halation, but turns out it’s the HD Classic Soft microlenslets that produce a more powerful effect.

I really want to give the Schneider Classic Black Softs and the Double Classic Black Softs a go – these combine Classic Softs with 1/8 or 1/4 Black Frosts, and the Classic Softs have a more dense and uniform distribution of the lenslets, which are bigger than those of the HD Classic Softs, so perhaps the halation would be more uniform. But they don’t seem to be available in circular screw-in type anywhere, and same goes for Tiffen’s Black Soft/FX.

I’m looking into Formatt Hitech’s Black Supermist as well – their mist design appears to be more compact than that of the Black Pro Mists. But personally, I would prefer blending it with what they call “in-focus” diffusion of the Classic Softs, Soft/FX, and Pancro Mitchell Diffusion Filters. Combing this filter type with the black-mist type – what Schneider and Tiffen do with Classic Black Softs and Black Soft/FX – seems like a sound design for balancing resolution reduction with contrast levels and moderate halation.

If you’re looking only for halation of light sources in the frame, then one of the mist-type filters would be suitable.

4 × 4 and 4 × 5.65 filters for matte boxes run quite expensive, so I’d go the circular screw-in route.

I’d also recommend to check out Tiffen’s Glimmerglass and Satin range.
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Re: Affordable filters?

PostMon Apr 12, 2021 2:37 am

Bromine 18 wrote:I’m looking into Formatt Hitech’s Black Supermist as well – their mist design appears to be more compact than that of the Black Pro Mists. But personally, I would prefer blending it with what they call “in-focus” diffusion of the Classic Softs, Soft/FX, and Pancro Mitchell Diffusion Filters. Combing this filter type with the black-mist type – what Schneider and Tiffen do with Classic Black Softs and Black Soft/FX – seems like a sound design for balancing resolution reduction with contrast levels and moderate halation.


Brad Hurley wrote:Actually the sale is still on until tomorrow (12 April); try entering the code SPRING20 at checkout and see if it gives you the 20% discount. https://www.formatt-hitech.com/cinema/b ... circle-kit


Brad and Bromine on youtube i couldn't find any video reviews about how this filters work.
Do you ever seen such a videos, because i don't know how do they work and that's my complain before deciding to purchase that ones.

Bromine 18 wrote:I’d also recommend to check out Tiffen’s Glimmerglass and Satin range.


Will watch reviews today, i didn't heard about them before.
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Re: Affordable filters?

PostMon Apr 12, 2021 4:12 am

I would go for the promise 1/4 and the NiSi Allure streak, and because of the big difference in cost, I opt to go for the circular 82mm and just put it behind my matte box. This is very doable except for anamorphic lenses. But I don’t often use anamorphic lenses and when I do, I rent them so it is at that time I will rent the rectangular 4x5.6 filters that goes on the matte box.
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Re: Affordable filters?

PostMon Apr 12, 2021 9:11 am

Bromine 18 wrote:I have the Hollywood Black Magic 1. Initially using it with the Pocket 4K I loved it, but as I used it more, I realized that the pattern of its microlenslets is a bit too random to give a uniform halation. As a result – depending on the T-stop of the lens – the effect of the lenslets appears like how tiny raindrops might halate light sources in the frame. Not sure whether this is specific to the “1” strength or the round screw-in design.


In addition to this, there's the speckled bokeh effect, which I mentioned above; this is a risk with a number of the diffusion filters from Tokina, Schneider, Tiffen, and others that use micropores/microlenslets. I've experienced it even with a 1/8 Hollywood Black Magic; see the crop of a photo below, which I shot into the sun to provoke both veiling flare and speckled bokeh; you can see the speckles most clearly in the OOF highlight at the top. It happens mainly when you have a close-focused subject, wide-open iris, with highlights in the background; at deeper focus and stopped down you shouldn't see it.

Imagespeckled bokeh2 by Brad Hurley, on Flickr
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Re: Affordable filters?

PostMon Apr 12, 2021 11:40 am

bmpcc6k wrote:Brad and Bromine on youtube i couldn't find any video reviews about how this filters work . . .


https://tiffen.com/collections/diffusion
https://tinyurl.com/Tiffen-Triangle-of-Diffusion
https://vimeopro.com/schneideroptics/filter-tests
https://schneiderkreuznach.com/en/cine- ... al-filters

Looking up the filters will give you loads of videos and forum entries on their use. Tiffen’s Triangle of Diffusion is also a great infographic.

Broadly, if you’re only interested in diffusion filters halating light sources in your footage, and maybe reducing skin-tone shimmer a little bit, whilst maintaining the sharpness, then the mist- or frost-type are your go-to filters.

If you want to reduce fine details, resolution, and overall sharpness in your footage, then the lenslet-type filters are what you want.

Of late, I have started preferring a combination of both.

Brad Hurley wrote:In addition to this, there's the speckled bokeh effect . . .


I can live with the filter pattern showing up in the bokeh, as long as its pleasing and not entirely distracting. But yeah, Hollywood Blackmagic’s bokeh contamination can at times be distracting and off-putting.

Although many TV shows seem indifferent to it – Hollywood Blackmagic’s speckled bokeh often show up in them, especially in several British series such as Line of Duty and Peaky Blinders.

And from what I’ve seen and read, Pancro Mitchell’s grid pattern is the most pleasing in the bokeh – I’ve seen it crop up in Billions and Joker.

I switched to Satin and True-Net a while ago. Satin can be a bit too subtle, and True-Net’s net pattern sometimes shows up out of focus under very bright sunlight, especially at T-stops higher than 5.6 and when using prime lenses. So I use Satin in daylight and True-Net otherwise, and I prefer them over the Hollywood Blackmagic.

I’m currently looking into combining black-halation types with lenslet filters. But as soon as Classic Black Softs and Black Soft/FX show up in round screw-in sizes, I’m going for them.
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Re: Affordable filters?

PostMon Apr 12, 2021 7:04 pm

The advantage of rectangular cinema filters is range. For every filter effect you're going to get the full pineapple from 1/8 through 5. The fractional, in my opinion, preferred densities aren't available in many circular sizes.

On the cheap check out Series 9 or IX filters. One can source most of the classiscs Pro-Mist, Soft Fx, PL, etc., on the used market for about $50 bucks per. I managed to put together a set of Series 9 split diopters for a sum that would be impossible with larger filters.

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Re: Affordable filters?

PostMon Apr 12, 2021 7:17 pm

Howard Roll wrote:The advantage of rectangular cinema filters is range.


Another advantage is that you don't have to worry about lens compatibility. Early on I settled on 77 mm circular filters but later kicked myself for that decision because it puts a lot of good lenses off limits. Step-up rings are cheap, so it's better to buy the largest circles you can afford (or go with rectangular if you can) because it won't limit your lens options later.
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Phil999

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Re: Affordable filters?

PostMon Apr 12, 2021 10:17 pm

the speckled bokeh effect is distracting, but may possibly be reduced or masked with a grain node.
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Re: Affordable filters?

PostTue Apr 13, 2021 8:54 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:
Bromine 18 wrote:I have the Hollywood Black Magic 1. Initially using it with the Pocket 4K I loved it, but as I used it more, I realized that the pattern of its microlenslets is a bit too random to give a uniform halation. As a result – depending on the T-stop of the lens – the effect of the lenslets appears like how tiny raindrops might halate light sources in the frame. Not sure whether this is specific to the “1” strength or the round screw-in design.


In addition to this, there's the speckled bokeh effect, which I mentioned above; this is a risk with a number of the diffusion filters from Tokina, Schneider, Tiffen, and others that use micropores/microlenslets. I've experienced it even with a 1/8 Hollywood Black Magic; see the crop of a photo below, which I shot into the sun to provoke both veiling flare and speckled bokeh; you can see the speckles most clearly in the OOF highlight at the top. It happens mainly when you have a close-focused subject, wide-open iris, with highlights in the background; at deeper focus and stopped down you shouldn't see it.
speckled bokeh2 by Brad Hurley, on Flickr

omg, your bokeh, the colors... amazing!
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Re: Affordable filters?

PostTue Apr 13, 2021 9:22 pm

GeezerviserBom wrote:omg, your bokeh, the colors... amazing!


I assume you're kidding?! This was shot with a Tokina ATX Pro 28-70mm/2.6-2.8 zoom, an Angénieux design that was made by Tokina in the 1990s. I love it for cinema/video; less impressed with it for stills, but I use it occasionally for that. This was taken with a Sony A7iii, wide open. I normally use it on my BMD Micro Cinema Camera, where it just shines. I don't normally use a diffusion filter on it (it doesn't need it!) but was experimenting.

Here's the full photo (which was really just a test) from which the crop was taken:

ImageBacklit spruce by Brad Hurley, on Flickr
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Re: Affordable filters?

PostWed Apr 14, 2021 2:09 am

That is a very nice lens, like most originally designed by Angenieux.
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Re: Affordable filters?

PostWed Apr 14, 2021 9:11 am

Uli Plank wrote:That is a very nice lens, like most originally designed by Angenieux.


Agreed, and so affordable! I paid about US $350 for mine.
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Re: Affordable filters?

PostTue Apr 27, 2021 1:17 am

Brad Hurley wrote:
GeezerviserBom wrote:omg, your bokeh, the colors... amazing!


I assume you're kidding?! This was shot with a Tokina ATX Pro 28-70mm/2.6-2.8 zoom, an Angénieux design that was made by Tokina in the 1990s. I love it for cinema/video; less impressed with it for stills, but I use it occasionally for that. This was taken with a Sony A7iii, wide open. I normally use it on my BMD Micro Cinema Camera, where it just shines. I don't normally use a diffusion filter on it (it doesn't need it!) but was experimenting.

Here's the full photo (which was really just a test) from which the crop was taken:

ImageBacklit spruce by Brad Hurley, on Flickr

wow) I didn't know that it's "naturally" like that.
I'm just a novice :lol:
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Re: Affordable filters?

PostTue Apr 27, 2021 9:50 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:Agreed, and so affordable! I paid about US $350 for mine.


It used to be far cheaper before the word got spread.
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