BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostThu Apr 29, 2021 1:49 pm

And we’ve heard they’re in contact with DJI for example. I appreciate the update as very significant but flawed.

If the flaws are a showstopper for a shooter, revert back to the prior release and wait until all is good. This can be a common approach for any software change with items that ‘break’ in the update.

I’m on a Mac with Catalina and all my software appears to work now, but I’ve no idea when I can update to Big Sur as some of my software doesn’t support Bug Sur. I’m sure it will but I wait as I must. It’s unfortunately possible to have 3rd party software failures with updates. We all wish it wasn’t so.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostThu Apr 29, 2021 2:22 pm

So I updated three BMPCC4k's with the Lumix 35-100mm lens on them. 2 of the lenses work fine the third one has lost it's ability to focus correctly.

Ironically it has locked itself into continuous autofocus! I was dumbfounded for quite a while. When I hit the autofocus button it basically doesn't stop looking for the right focus and just holds focus even as I zoom all the way in and out. It was actually difficult to see where it lost focus and found it again. It was seriously impressive even though it is technically not supposed to be happening.

So bad news for the firmware update but great news for a future update with continuous autofocus.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostThu Apr 29, 2021 4:02 pm

Am I the only one who’s peaking (colored lines) changes when they hit record?
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Josh Allen csc

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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostThu Apr 29, 2021 4:29 pm

I’m assuming doing the new 4K dci raw on a 6K would mean the sensor is getting cropped? Can anyone confirm?
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostThu Apr 29, 2021 5:40 pm

Josh Allen csc wrote:I’m assuming doing the new 4K dci raw on a 6K would mean the sensor is getting cropped? Can anyone confirm?

Certainly. UHD-4K on the 6K camera is using a smaller region of the Super35mm sensor anyway, so the expansion by a few columns of pixels to DCI-4K is simply recording a few more of those unused pixels.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostThu Apr 29, 2021 5:54 pm

Hi,

I updated to 7.3 on my 6K and would like to report the camera now has autofocus issues/failure with my Sigma 18-35mm.

Pressing the focus button now results in the camera hunting for focus, and usually failing or taking an incredibly long time to find focus. No such issues with previous firmware.

Thanks
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostThu Apr 29, 2021 7:55 pm

ka00 wrote:Hi,

I updated to 7.3 on my 6K and would like to report the camera now has autofocus issues/failure with my Sigma 18-35mm.

Pressing the focus button now results in the camera hunting for focus, and usually failing or taking an incredibly long time to find focus. No such issues with previous firmware.

Thanks

That's happening to me on the P6K as well. So I revert back to my previous firmware and will just wait until a new firmware that is stable comes out in time which no one knows when at this time.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostThu Apr 29, 2021 8:55 pm

Just an idea: Could someone on 7.3 test if the auto focus improves when camera is set to ProRes with video gamma (instead of film log)? Maybe with the flat Color Science Gen 5 there isn’t enough contrast in the image for contrast AF to work? Could also be the reason that focus assist is so weak now.
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Tim Franks

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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 5:40 am

I am assuming you haben update yet

I can give this a try when get to work.


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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 7:25 am

Robert Niessner wrote:Just an idea: Could someone on 7.3 test if the auto focus improves when camera is set to ProRes with video gamma (instead of film log)? Maybe with the flat Color Science Gen 5 there isn’t enough contrast in the image for contrast AF to work? Could also be the reason that focus assist is so weak now.
Just gave it a test. It’s hit or miss, so no difference setting it to ProRes or BRAW.

Let’s just hope 7.3.1 will iron out this feature.


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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 8:05 am

Yeah same, also tried here (bmpcc4k with 12-60 panasonic mft), couldn't really notice any difference.

On some scene it works fine all the time, on some, it fails all the time and on most of them it takes a couple of tries. Just faster to focus manually.

The focus 'red highlight' thing works fine though so that's good enough for me.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 12:26 pm

I have double checked the focus peaking, and can confirm the peaking is weaker than last version. To best visualize the difference, focus on a tabletop surface, which does not have an edge, 6.9.6 can see the grains of the wood surface. 7.3 can only see the very few coarse spots.

ISO 2500, same for both firmware. IRIS 4.0 same. on a tripod. about 10 minutes apart. With 7.3, regardless, how hard I try, i can not those grains on the table. Yes, I can easily with 6.9.6. As I turn the focus ring, I can see the band of highlight moving back and forth.

The screen was taken with my camera.

EDIT: My mistake, when testing the 7.3, I used the default intensity of the highlights which is not fair. I have change it to "High" and reuploaded the pics. The difference is much smaller. yes there is a difference.

Sorry for the confusion about the file naming. The firmware version is in the comment part. The first 2 of the light highlights were from V7.3. The last one with stronger highlight is with V6.9.6
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IMG_4821.JPG
V7.3
IMG_4821.JPG (811.12 KiB) Viewed 15879 times
IMG_4817.JPG
V6.9.6
IMG_4817.JPG (873.12 KiB) Viewed 15879 times
Last edited by Shaoyan on Fri May 14, 2021 3:54 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 12:28 pm

Shaoyan wrote:.... I can't seem to upload pics.


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Tim Franks

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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 2:32 pm

So which image is which firmware?


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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 2:47 pm

Tim Franks wrote:So which image is which firmware?


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It is labelled under the image. the first 2 are from V7.3, the last one is from V6.9.6
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 5:00 pm

Shaoyan wrote:
hhdima wrote:
smunaut wrote:Speaking of focus on 7.3, I could swear previously when powering off/on again the camera, the focus point wouldn't change. Here I'm pretty sure it goes out of focus / changes focus when booting the camera.


Yes, I've noticed the same. I use BMPCC 4K with Leica 12-60mm as a webcam. And now with 7.3 it always starts with focus distance of around 80-90mm so it needs full refocus every time.

Hi Dmitrii,

quick question, I am looking to buy leica 12-60mm lens for P4K. are you able to manually focus while the lens is set at AF mode?

thanks


Yes, it's possible to focus manually (note that it's focus by wire) in both AF and MF modes. But of course autofocus doesn't work in MF mode.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 5:12 pm

What happened with old P6k focus peaking in the update? Update says "improved focus peaking visibility", but based on my first shoot with the new firmware, it's disappeared almost completely. No matter if the focus peaking is lines or peaking, low, mid, high, or any of the colors, in 6k mode it just doesn't show up at all. In the lower modes there are a few pixels here and there.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 6:06 pm

Incase anyone has missed it. Viltrox have a new 'temporary' update (3.6) that fixes their adapters with the 7.3 update.

As far as I can tell, iris is no longer an issue, but I do not have IS on the 24-105 f4. That said, I didn't have it on the previous firmware I had installed (2.3).
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 9:03 pm

Shaoyan wrote:
Tim Franks wrote:So which image is which firmware?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is labelled under the image. the first 2 are from V7.3, the last one is from V6.9.6
Interesting, I do t see any labels here in Tapatalk.
Still new to the app.


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BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 9:23 pm

Tim, I’m a Tapatalk user as well. No labels on those images show, just the file names.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 11:38 pm

I have three P4Ks and would really like to do this update. I pretty much only use manual lenses and am not worried about potential auto focus or iris controls. However, I do rely pretty heavily on focus peaking and am nervous about reports of this actually getting fainter rather than clearer. Is everyone finding this, or are there any users (specifically of the 4K) who can confirm focus peaking in 7.3 is at least as good as (if not better than) before?
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostFri Apr 30, 2021 11:59 pm

If you have the time, I’d suggest you update at least one BMPCC4K and then judge the results regarding focus peaking based on your preferences. You could check out the strengths and colours when using coloured lines or edge peaking in case there’s an approach you prefer.

I use coloured red lines typically set on medium or low depending upon shooting conditions (low without motion and medium with more movement).

If you’re not happy with the upgrade, it’s a few minutes to downgrade. I think given your manual use of the camera, you’ll appreciate all the new features. Best of luck to you.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostSat May 01, 2021 3:18 am

Hi rstreber,

I rely on the focus function a lot to get critical focus a lot as well - lots of moving subjects in the work I do.
I have a couple of 4ks and have upgraded both and generally I am happy.

Concerning your question, I am not entirely sure. I have the lines set to high and I use green generally as it such an unnatural colour. I am going to conduct some further tests in different conditions but I would say at this stage based on the shooting I have done that it is still certainly useable.

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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostSat May 01, 2021 3:44 am

Thanks Rob, that's good to hear. I'll try doing one camera first to see how it goes and then proceed with the other two if it's all good. Generally, despite some of the bugs reported on various fronts, it does seem like a good update overall.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostSat May 01, 2021 5:03 am

New "temporary" Viltrox firmware was release. I will try tomorrow

http://viltrox.com/newsinfo/1438431.html
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostSat May 01, 2021 8:57 am

The problem I have with the Pocket 6k Pro is because the HDR screen is so bright it gives the wrong impression of what is actually been recorded which is far more underexpose compare to what you see on screen unless you have the brightness setting reduce to less than 10% but then you won't be able to see the screen in bright outdoor. I don't know if a future firmware can fix that?
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostSat May 01, 2021 9:04 am

Updated, I appreciate a magenta contamination in Gen5 I do not know if why I am doing some wrong step, the space is widegamut and DCI-p3 in the output, Does it happen to someone else?

on PCC6k
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espacio.JPG
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostSat May 01, 2021 9:33 am

How can I downgrade to an older version of firmware?
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostSat May 01, 2021 3:46 pm

WahWay, as you know the extra brightness allows you to compose the frame and judge focus. You might want to quickly select the False Colour view when checking exposure as that works regardless of screen brightness.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostSat May 01, 2021 4:55 pm

Pocket 4K with Canon 100-400 L IS 2:
The focus assist (set at medium and color, blue) worked fine for filming birds at various distances and flying. I use manual focus with Nucleus M. Also a 7" Lilliput HDR monitor (I do not use focus assist in Lilliput, only from camera to HDMI. The camera monitor has false color with focus assist off. I also send the 'Gen 5 Film to Rec 2020 Hybrid Log Gamma' to HDMI only.

(One reason I do not use the Lilliput focus assist is that I do not want assist color around all the data info and horizon cross-hair)

Also the aperture control from camera to lens worked fine. The auto focus does work (sort of), as pitiful as it had before firmware upgrade (lens switch has to be set to AF). But then I do not use auto focus and keep that manual. I would rather to change focus when I decide. I never use auto exposure either.

As to Q0, Q1, Q3, Q5:
In some pixel peep tests I found something interesting. All four Q settings looked to give identical (as close as I could tell at 300x) results for a lace curtain in focus. However (and this is the interesting part) the out of focus parts looked to get smother as Q changed from 0 to 1 to 3 to 5. I wonder if the variable compression of Braw actually starts more in these smooth out of focus areas and maybe later in the in-focus areas. This could help explain why all compressed Braw looks so good, and maybe more attention should be directed to the 'soft' areas when really evaluating for quality comparisons. In any event the Q1 seems fantastic and could save about half the space on disk and give about twice the recording time and looks to me to be a real contender to use instead of Q0 or 3:1. Q3 I would give a maybe as there is quite a lot of changes is the 'soft' areas. Q5 I personally would not likely use for my regular photography (did not like the old Q5 either, nor 5:1)(and I have a lot of storage drives.) However, I could see myself using Q5 for interviews... just not for 'art' shots.

I would be interested to hear (read) any other findings on how the Braw compression might work.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostSat May 01, 2021 5:32 pm

updated to 7.3...
Resolve 17

I think there's a white balance bug:
Shot with Titan Tubes @ 5600k.
BMPCC4K set to 5600k in-camera.
Hasselblad X1D set to 5600k.

Everything looked normal on the back of the pocket, smallHD and Flanders.

5600k on P4k looks way too warm in Resolve and I have to set to 4400k to get a balanced white.

Attatched Screengrabs:
P4k in Resolve @ 5600k
p4k5600.jpg
P4K in Resolve @ 5600k
p4k5600.jpg (149.64 KiB) Viewed 15456 times


P4K in Resolve @ 4400k
p4k4400.jpg
P4K in Resolve @ 4400k
p4k4400.jpg (143.48 KiB) Viewed 15456 times


Hasselblad in Phocus @ 5600k
x1d5600.jpg
X1D in Phocus @ 5600k
x1d5600.jpg (85.9 KiB) Viewed 15456 times
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostSat May 01, 2021 8:03 pm

rick.lang wrote:WahWay, as you know the extra brightness allows you to compose the frame and judge focus. You might want to quickly select the False Colour view when checking exposure as that works regardless of screen brightness.


Yes I know but I don't do false colour. I have no problem with the BMPCC4k for exposure or the original UM4.6k. This HDR screen is big culture change. I would much rather go the "Victorian photographer" route of covering the screen with a shade or a blanket.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostSat May 01, 2021 8:11 pm

Jeffrey, I think what you’ve observed is correct. The greater quantization is applied stronger in areas with less ‘focus’ so you’re saving more storage. In all quantization values, colour is usually defined well but the edges of items in focus are likely more accurate at Q0 than Q5. For many subjects these differences are barely noticeable and some subjects, notably beauty shots, will appear at Q1 than Q0 while others such as landscapes or Clint Eastwood might be more striking at Q0 than Q1 for example.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostSat May 01, 2021 8:23 pm

WahWay wrote:... I would much rather go the "Victorian photographer" route of covering the screen with a shade or a blanket.


We’ve probably all been there in bright sunny situations!
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostSat May 01, 2021 9:03 pm

Jeffrey D Mathias wrote:As to Q0, Q1, Q3, Q5:
In some pixel peep tests I found something interesting. All four Q settings looked to give identical (as close as I could tell at 300x) ,... Q5 I personally would not likely use for my regular photography (did not like the old Q5 either, nor 5:1)(and I have a lot of storage drives.) However, I could see myself using Q5 for interviews... just not for 'art' shots.


What "art" are you thinking of, that relies on a level of detail invisible (or all but) to human eyes in moving images -- at 1x, not 300x?

We had these agonized debates when braw was first released -- search for them.... There are measurable differences, but whether they have any cinematic significance is a very different question, and easy to answer ("no").
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostMon May 03, 2021 7:01 am

Going back to the issue, are there any word from BMD on when a firmware with the fixes will be available to us? I don't want to upgrade to 7.3 with the issues and use my cam for projects until such time there is confidence that it is a stable firmware.

Maybe Kristian Lam (BMD) can chime in and let us know where things are.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostMon May 03, 2021 12:02 pm

Hi

I've just installed this onto my PC laptop and it hasn't picked up my P6K camera?

Interestingly version before was okay and I was able to see the P6K.

I've tried two different USB leads and although the PC picks it up just not the software.

The FW on the camera 6.9.6.

If anyone could give me an idea what maybe wrong I would be very grateful.

Cheers

Phil
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostMon May 03, 2021 3:32 pm

Ulysses Paiva wrote:
John Brawley wrote:
Johannes Jonsson wrote:This is not flawed firmware in my opinion, this is just a firmware upgrade that other vendors need to adapt to, a pretty common thing.



Indeed.

Seems like a lot of the issues are around viltrox, and not so much on the meta bones for example.

JB


John, there are reports of problems with another lenses, native, and gimbal connection. So, likely the issue originates with the camera, not an specific 3rd party product.


And yet lo, Viltrox does an update and addresses their specific issues.

http://viltrox.com/newsinfo/1438431.html

We only see the outward end result of what is happening. We don't know what is happening before these updates get pushed out. I see these assumptions made all the time.

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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostMon May 03, 2021 3:49 pm

Just wanted to report that I've updated my 4 P4Ks, and all look and work great. Again, I'm only using manual lenses and can't report on any possible focus issues (although I do have a Panasonic / Leica 12-60 that I'll try when I have a moment.) The update was super smooth, fast, and easy on all three. Very happy I did it so far.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostMon May 03, 2021 4:46 pm

Jeffrey D Mathias wrote:
As to Q0, Q1, Q3, Q5:
In some pixel peep tests I found something interesting. All four Q settings looked to give identical (as close as I could tell at 300x) results for a lace curtain in focus. However (and this is the interesting part) the out of focus parts looked to get smother as Q changed from 0 to 1 to 3 to 5. I wonder if the variable compression of Braw actually starts more in these smooth out of focus areas and maybe later in the in-focus areas. This could help explain why all compressed Braw looks so good, and maybe more attention should be directed to the 'soft' areas when really evaluating for quality comparisons. In any event the Q1 seems fantastic and could save about half the space on disk and give about twice the recording time and looks to me to be a real contender to use instead of Q0 or 3:1. Q3 I would give a maybe as there is quite a lot of changes is the 'soft' areas. Q5 I personally would not likely use for my regular photography (did not like the old Q5 either, nor 5:1)(and I have a lot of storage drives.) However, I could see myself using Q5 for interviews... just not for 'art' shots.

I would be interested to hear (read) any other findings on how the Braw compression might work.


You’re one of the few I’ve seen that has noticed exactly how Q compression is working.

It’s based on what’s in focus.

So the amount of compression floats based on how much of the image is in focus. A longer lens where only say 10% of the image is in focus will get a very low data rate. More data is thrown at the sharp area and less is used on the out of focus area.

The Q setting simply specifies the data range bracket.

So if you wanted to really “break” the compression you would create a test image with a LOT of very fine detail that was all in focus, so a wider focal length lens and a deeper stop, say something like 5.6. (More than that and diffraction may affect the result)

The cool thing here is that it’s very easy to change your Q setting as you shoot to vary the compression. If you know you have a wide shot with a lot of detail that’s important for you to hold then use a lower Q number.

If it’s a talking head and the background is soft you can probably get a visually identical result from a higher Q setting.

Jb
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Tim Lota

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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostTue May 04, 2021 9:33 am

Has someone already tried 7.3.1? It only lists the Pocket6K Pro...


**
Just tested it, the programm says there is no update for the Pocket4K. Too bad.
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostTue May 04, 2021 2:59 pm

Tim Lota wrote:Has someone already tried 7.3.1? It only lists the Pocket6K Pro...


**
Just tested it, the programm says there is no update for the Pocket4K. Too bad.

WTF! All Pockets are broken on 7.3 and they are just focusing on Pocket6K Pro with 7.3.1. Sad!
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostTue May 04, 2021 3:36 pm

It’s only been a week and 7.3.1 is something related to manufacturing so I don’t know if it actually addresses any of our concerns with functionality that have been identified.
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OlegLizin

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BMPCC 6PK PRO camera 7.3.1 update

PostTue May 04, 2021 4:36 pm

Hello,
I've just installed 7.3.1 update and figured out that my CFast card stopped to work.
When I turn on the camera it doesn't see my card.
To make the camera see the card I have to do following steps:
- unpug the card
- then unplug the battery
- plug battery back
- turn camera on
- turn it off
- plug CFast card
- turn camera on
After I turn off the camera, it stops to see card again and I need to repeat the steps above again.
On the 7.3 firmware there werent such troubles with card.

Does anybody observe such issues?
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Kristian Lam

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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostWed May 05, 2021 3:11 am

OlegLizin wrote:I've just installed 7.3.1 update and figured out that my CFast card stopped to work.
When I turn on the camera it doesn't see my card.


Which camera?
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Mike Potton

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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostWed May 05, 2021 3:13 am

Kristian Lam wrote:
OlegLizin wrote:I've just installed 7.3.1 update and figured out that my CFast card stopped to work.
When I turn on the camera it doesn't see my card.


Which camera?


Presumably the Pocket 6K Pro, that's the only camera listed that works with 7.3.1 right?
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Kristian Lam

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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostWed May 05, 2021 3:47 am

Mike Potton wrote:Presumably the Pocket 6K Pro, that's the only camera listed that works with 7.3.1 right?


Not necessary. If you run the 7.3.1 updated utility on the Pocket 4K or 6K, it will update those cameras to 7.3. Best to be clear which camera is the poster referring to.
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Mike Potton

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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostWed May 05, 2021 4:05 am

Kristian Lam wrote:
Mike Potton wrote:Presumably the Pocket 6K Pro, that's the only camera listed that works with 7.3.1 right?


Not necessary. If you run the 7.3.1 updated utility on the Pocket 4K or 6K, it will update those cameras to 7.3. Best to be clear which camera is the poster referring to.


They mention they were on 7.3 before updating to 7.3.1
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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostWed May 05, 2021 4:15 am

The poster set the title for his comment to say it was the 6K Pro.
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Kristian Lam

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Re: BMPCC 4/6/6PK camera 7.3 update

PostWed May 05, 2021 4:34 am

cool. Didn't see that. But it's not a known issue.
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