Blackmagic Forum

In the latest 7.3 update like many of us complaining, the focus peaking became very weak even in High mode. Blackmagic, at least fix this problem please. There are threads about it, you would better to read them.

for better understanding: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=140062&hilit=focus+peaking&start=100#p755802


Thanks.

This is true particularly with vintage lenses, that many filmmakers and hobbyists prefer to use over modern photography lenses. Also a problem with speedboosters, since they tend to soften up the image additionally, so the peaking is less visible.

So BMD, plz post an update to offer us a really strong focus peaking (along the lens fixes for the BMPCC 4k). Thx!

I've always had trouble seeing the focus peaking's colored lines on my 1966 Mir-1 37mm f/2.8 "1958 Grand Prix Brussels" lens with it's single purple coating. This is a very low contrast lens that is based on a 1954 Zeiss Flektogon formula. The character of the lens gives images a film-like feel.

The problem got worse when I updated my BMPCC 6K to 7.3. To my surprise, I was able to see them if I chose the anamorphic 3.7K mode. It was just the horizontal component of the lines though, as everything is stretched 2x.

Could this be Gen 5 colour with flatter profile? If so BMD should look into updating the focus peaking to reflect this.

Anyway you can go back to 7.2, it’s easy, remove camera software, download and install 7.2 version, connect camera, it see that camera can be downgraded, do it.
Wait until you find a better firmware.


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Ok. Thanks for the feedback. We will look into it.

I've rolled back the 7.3 updates on my P6K and will just wait until a stable firmware is available. Firmware 7.3 has nice feature but is so buggy I wouldn't want to have anything near especially during a project that I want to use the P6K with.

Yes, the new focus peaking is totally invisible and useless.

Agreed. Focus peaking on BMPCC4K is not great.
Esspecially for those of us that are colour blind. It would be awesome to have an option to change the focus peaking colour to blue (like Panasonic GH5) which is visible to us colour blind folks.

Kristian Lam wrote:Ok. Thanks for the feedback. We will look into it.

Thanks Kristian.

I have tested further today. I think the problem is NOT about focus peaking. It is about the LCD display. The LCD of V7.3 is less contrast and much finer and fainter looking than v6.9.6. The LCD of the v6.9.6 is much grainier. This is probably the reason. I do not have an external monitor to test. I have used the same black and white LUT (attached). This might be also related to the color science as well.

I though it was my camera setting was not the same when taking the screen shot. During this time, I have set my camera to manual so that there is no auto adjustment of aperture or shutter.

I took some stills with P4K to see if there is difference: NO

The top one is V6.9.6, The bottom is V7.3

I think selecting blue lines is more visible.

Honestly, I am not seeing such a dramatic difference. Green is very visible particularly on human faces.

Shaoyan wrote:

Kristian Lam wrote:Ok. Thanks for the feedback. We will look into it.

Thanks Kristian.

I have tested further today... I have used the same black and white LUT (attached). This might be also related to the color science as well.

I though it was my camera setting was not the same when taking the screen shot. During this time, I have set my camera to manual so that there is no auto adjustment of aperture or shutter…

Just having both images taken with manual settings is only part of the story.

Are you sure both cameras were using the identical Dynamic Range? Best to use Dynamic Range Film in such a comparison. If you used Dynamic Range Video or Extended Video in both, you won’t get identical results in Gen 4 and Gen 5 as they were changed in Gen 5; Dynamic Range Video in Gen 4 seemed harsh to me whereas Dynamic Range Video in Gen 5 is very useful.

Using a third-party LUT still could be the source of your difference as the LUT could have assumed Gen 4 and needs to be redone for Gen 5.

rick.lang wrote:Are you sure both cameras were using the identical Dynamic Range? Best to use Dynamic Range Film in such a comparison. If you used Dynamic Range Video or Extended Video in both, you won’t get identical results in Gen 4 and Gen 5 as they were changed in Gen 5; Dynamic Range Video in Gen 4 seemed harsh to me whereas Dynamic Range Video in Gen 5 is very useful.

Using a third-party LUT still could be the source of your difference as the LUT could have assumed Gen 4 and needs to be redone for Gen 5.

Hi Rick,

The P4K setting was the same as default, and used BRAW, Constant bitrate and FILM, 8:1 for both. Every time after rest/update Firmware, I would just load the LUT and set it as default, and change the intensity to HIGH and LCD to 100% brightness, ISO to 2000 and Aperture @4.0. Everything else is default.

Here is another set with and without LUT. ISO 1250 setting of p4K are the same. Not as scientific, but the difference is obvious. The stills taken by the p4K are the same, just the LCD.

Top is the 6.9.6, and bottom is 7.3.

AND, the autofocus is abysmal, completely useless. I use metabones non-booster and canon 16-35 f4 L lens. With V6.9.6, the p4k tries longer and get to the target. With v7.3, it attemts very briefly and stopped and off off target almost all the times. The attempt of auto focusing is so brief.

This is so strange to hear considering this is one of the items specifically mentioned in the release notes.

Shaoyan wrote:The P4K setting was the same as default, and used BRAW, Constant bitrate and FILM, 8:1 for both. Every time after rest/update Firmware, I would just load the LUT and set it as default

As Rick says, you can't use the exact same LUT for Gen 4 as Gen 5. They need to be modified for the new log curve. If you are using the LUTs that come with the camera that is fine as they are already modified to work with the colour science version on the camera, but Video and Extended Video have also been updated:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=125084

Shaoyan, thanks for the additional requested details showing the consistent settings for Dynamic Range Film. Good.

Is it possible to contact the supplier of the LUT for a LUT based on the new Gen 5? Usually it takes awhile for third-parties to offer items that keep up with vendor changes. However with what you’ve shown us, the supplier may already be preparing an update or a new version for Gen 5.

By the way, in my past experience I have rarely set the strength of focus assist red coloured lines to High. Normally I use the middle setting unless I’m recording a lot of action typically a sports event.

Even then I seldom use High as I don’t think it’s very accurate in that it appears to broaden the definition of what is in focus. Perhaps someone can correct me on my assumption though as I haven’t ‘proven’ it correct. I do rely more on the settings that are less aggressive.

If your subject is close to stationary, focus peaking with white edges is quite accurate and preferred by some such as Denny Smith.

CaptainHook wrote:

Shaoyan wrote:The P4K setting was the same as default, and used BRAW, Constant bitrate and FILM, 8:1 for both. Every time after rest/update Firmware, I would just load the LUT and set it as default

As Rick says, you can't use the exact same LUT for Gen 4 as Gen 5. They need to be modified for the new log curve. If you are using the LUTs that come with the camera that is fine as they are already modified to work with the colour science version on the camera, but Video and Extended Video have also been updated:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=125084

@rick.lang as well

The LUT I used is not a commercially purchased LUT for B4K. It is a free LUT i found online. I found it easier to focus+peaking with B+W. So I can't really go back and ask for modification.

I never use video or extended video.

Disregard the LUT effect, I think the pair of shots without any LUT are by themselves enough to illustrate the point I would like to make: The LCD display on v7.3 is smoother and finer and less contrasty. This may be the reason why the peaking is weaker. I am not capable of discerning the color difference.

I like Shaoyan's logic behind using b&w lut for higher focus peaking visibility, except that by not using video or extended video gamma for viewing, it makes for fewer contrast edges for the colored peaking lines to act upon.

So I wonder about using Resolve+BRAW to create an extended video b&w display lut that could be used as an aid for focusing; that also would make BRAW film mode recordings in full color; in other words usable for full color BRAW film mode recording by not baking the display lut into the recording itself.

1.) Light a 18% gray card and do a custom white balance with the P4K/P6K etc.
2.) Use the false color to expose it @ exactly 18% middle gray.
3.) Shoot a clip of this in BRAW, film mode.
4.) Bring this into Resolve. From the raw tab, desaturate the color and apply the Gen 5 extended video lut.
5.) Create 3D cube lut from the above.

With the viewing lut thusly created and uploaded into the camera, you should have a b&w extended video viewing lut that would make the LCD display black and white imagery with extended video contrast edges for the colored peaking to act upon.

Would this work?

Tom Roper wrote:I like Shaoyan's logic behind using b&w lut for higher focus peaking visibility, except that by not using video or extended video gamma for viewing, it makes for fewer contrast edges for the colored peaking lines to act upon.

So I wonder about using Resolve+BRAW to create an extended video b&w display lut that could be used as an aid for focusing; that also would make BRAW film mode recordings in full color; in other words usable for full color BRAW film mode recording by not baking the display lut into the recording itself.

1.) Light a 18% gray card and do a custom white balance with the P4K/P6K etc.
2.) Use the false color to expose it @ exactly 18% middle gray.
3.) Shoot a clip of this in BRAW, film mode.
4.) Bring this into Resolve. From the raw tab, desaturate the color and apply the Gen 5 extended video lut.
5.) Create 3D cube lut from the above.

With the viewing lut thusly created and uploaded into the camera, you should have a b&w extended video viewing lut that would make the LCD display black and white imagery with extended video contrast edges for the colored peaking to act upon.

Would this work?

Double LUTs?

I wish BMD could make their own Black and White version of Video or Extended Vidio LUTs. That are 2 additional LUTs.

Tom Roper wrote:I like Shaoyan's logic behind using b&w lut for higher focus peaking visibility, except that by not using video or extended video gamma for viewing, it makes for fewer contrast edges for the colored peaking lines to act upon.

So I wonder about using Resolve+BRAW to create an extended video b&w display lut that could be used as an aid for focusing; that also would make BRAW film mode recordings in full color; in other words usable for full color BRAW film mode recording by not baking the display lut into the recording itself.

1.) Light a 18% gray card and do a custom white balance with the P4K/P6K etc.
2.) Use the false color to expose it @ exactly 18% middle gray.
3.) Shoot a clip of this in BRAW, film mode.
4.) Bring this into Resolve. From the raw tab, desaturate the color and apply the Gen 5 extended video lut.
5.) Create 3D cube lut from the above.

With the viewing lut thusly created and uploaded into the camera, you should have a b&w extended video viewing lut that would make the LCD display black and white imagery with extended video contrast edges for the colored peaking to act upon.

Would this work?

For your info: here is a compilation of different setting to compare focus peaking. BW of either BRAW video or BRAW Ext. Video is significantly more helpful than colored ones.

I know the choice of color for the peaking matters, esp, in my testing. It is true either green or blue is better. However, with an overlay of B+W LUT, it does not matter what background you are shooting. All three colors will stand out more on B+W.

So, if BMD can add Video B+W or Ext. Video B+W LUT, it will be awsom!!


P4K BRAW Video, BRAW Ext. Video, and BRAW Film (Top, Middle and bottom)
Focus peaking level set at high
LUT, the same black and white LUT I used before

I had the same problem with 6k pro, was testing in the studio wih peaking in flat/film profile and after reviewing footage on the pc monitor i saw that some footages were out of the focus.
I guess problem is that gen5/film profile is too flat, because when i change profile into video, peaking were working great. Hope that they will fix it soon. Besides that i wish that they could add view playback DNG stills in camera as well.

Likeable Media wrote:Agreed. Focus peaking on BMPCC4K is not great.
Esspecially for those of us that are colour blind. It would be awesome to have an option to change the focus peaking colour to blue (like Panasonic GH5) which is visible to us colour blind folks.

I thought blue was one of the available colours?

Aren't the options red, green blue, white and black?

Pete Tomkies wrote:Aren't the options red, green blue, white and black?

Yes. The other poster hasn't found it in the menu. It's sort of hidden behind the monitor page, tab for LCD-HDMI-BOTH.

Pete Tomkies wrote:Aren't the options red, green blue, white and black?

My peaking color was red.

I find it shows more depth of the area that is in focus but leaves out faces depending on skin color and lighting until the person moves. Weird but useable.

bmpcc6k wrote:

Pete Tomkies wrote:Aren't the options red, green blue, white and black?

My peaking color was red.

As has been said above, sometimes changing the colour can help to make the peaking more visible.

I usually stay with either with red or green but have used blue at times. I haven't found a time where white or black is the best option yet though.

drknsss wrote:I find it shows more depth of the area that is in focus but leaves out faces depending on skin color and lighting until the person moves. Weird but useable.

I have definitely found that some people have faces that it is hard to tell when they are in focus.

Focus peaking needs contrast in an image to work and I guess some people don't have very contrasty faces?

I have always blamed the talent not the camera

Just chiming in here to add that some combination of either focus peaking update and/or gen 5 update has caused it to be really hard to see on my standard 6K. I'm using the same settings and lens combo so the update is the only thing that changed. Please add an additional level or two of sensitivity as high is now less visible than the old low was. Thanks.

Kristian Lam wrote:Ok. Thanks for the feedback. We will look into it.

any update since?

Ok I did a shoot today and I feel guilty for sayingthat the problem is not too bad. Focusing was certainly more difficult.

This really needs to be addressed! - Sadly those of us without eagle eyes...really are finding this unusable ...while a 180 external monitor can easily get this right....come on BMD Please fix this.

+1. I agree with the others here that the focus peaking in 7.3 is now noticeably weaker and often completely invisible on my BMPCC4K using a Voigtlander 17.5mm manual lens. I used to run peaking on the medium setting under previous firmware versions but have now moved to the high setting. But even on high it's often very dim or often not visible at all, which can make accurate focusing very difficult. Please fix ASAP.

I had a shoot this morning outdoors and yes, it was far from ideal. Indeed something needs to be done to get back to where we were.

as I wrote in another thread, my two Pocket 4k cameras, firmware 7.3, appear to have good focus peaking. I do set it to ‘high’ sometimes, sometimes the ‘mid’ setting is already sufficient. The presets I saved and share between both cameras has the ‘mid’ setting as the best starting point. In bright sunlight I switch to ‘high’, but only when I don’t have an external monitor with me and a sun hood, or to save battery and leave the monitor off.

I use modern lenses, most of them are rather sharp. That is probably the reason why I don’t have significant problems with focus peaking.

Focus peaking on both my external monitors (Osee and Feelworld) is definitely better. I fully support the idea of making the coloured lines more visible.

+ 1. Constantly creating a problem for the way I shoot as I have come to rely on peaking so much. Today I actually had to change a shot from moving to static just to ensure I had my focus right as the peaking was practically invisible.

where is Blackmagic on this serious issue? We want a respond asap.

AbdoulUK wrote:+ 1. Constantly creating a problem for the way I shoot as I have come to rely on peaking so much. Today I actually had to change a shot from moving to static just to ensure I had my focus right as the peaking was practically invisible.

+1

I concur focus peaking - coloured lines or sharpening - is poor and would also like to see this vastly improved , also tap to focus is also way off .

I can't live without my focus peaking that's why I haven't updated to 7.3

I just downgraded myself. Although I have an external monitor as well, my eyes are squinting too much and I did miss focus on a moving shot….


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After having used version 7.3 and version 7.3.2beta for several months, I have decided to go back to version 6.9.6. The autofocus of versions 7.3 is less accurate and more erratic than that of version 6.9.6. using any of my digital lenses (lumix 12-35 2.8 mark II; lumix 35-100 2.8 markII; lumix leica summilux 25 1.4; lumix leica Nocticron 42.5 1.2)
I would love for Blackmagic to release a 7.x version with the same autofocus as version 6.9.6)

Still a huge problem, with any softening filtration (pro mist 1/4) there is barely any peaking.

Long time BM camera owner, first time poster.

Recently purchased a 12k (my 4th BM camera). Love it to death. BUT had to post to add my voice to the request for much clearer/stronger focus peaking in the next update. It's affecting our ability to do our job and get the best results.

To whom it may concern from BM who reads these forums. I'd dearly love to hear that it's being worked on and a timeline.

Thanks in advance,

Lliam

A reminder (with my first client shoot since the pandemic restrictions coming up) that my best results on both the BMPCC4K and the BMVA12G7 are found using the Colour Green.

Can’t emphasize that enough. I also used Medium Red for years, but with the latest firmware on the camera and the external monitor, High Green is most visible. In a controlled shoot Medium Green may be sufficient for relatively static subjects, but my subjects are always in motion so I’m risking use of High Green at this time.

Unfortunately High can be misleading since the range that is considered in focus can be larger than when Medium is used. You can miss focus on moving subjects using High whereas Medium is reliable. So I may start on Medium Green.

rick.lang wrote:A reminder (with my first client shoot since the pandemic restrictions coming up) that my best results on both the BMPCC4K and the BMVA12G7 are found using the Colour Green.

Can’t emphasize that enough. I also used Medium Red for years, but with the latest firmware on the camera and the external monitor, High Green is most visible. In a controlled shoot Medium Green may be sufficient for relatively static subjects, but my subjects are always in motion so I’m risking use of High Green at this time.

Unfortunately High can be misleading since the range that is considered in focus can be larger than when Medium is used. You can miss focus on moving subjects using High whereas Medium is reliable. So I may start on Medium Green.

Thanks Rick I'll give green a try. We've been using blue as my co op is partially colour blind and struggles to distinguish red.

thank you Rick for the ‘medium green’ advice.

the human eyes reacts better to the colour green than any other colour in the spectrum. try it out, green lasers are much brighter than red, for example. you should always pick green as the colour for focus peaking, whatever camera you use.