Blackmagic Forum

Hi!

Need some input on shooting with the BMCC in a helicopter.

Should I:
- Use a shutter angle of 45 degrees to minimize vibration or is 180 degrees best?
- Shoot in 30fps?


Also need some input on DYI solutions, because we have no gyro.
Would handheld (and stabilized in post) actually be the best bet when not shooting with a gyro?
I'm thinking that having some pillows under each tripod leg should get rid of some of the vibration, but I have no experience and really do not know what it takes.

It doesn't have to be perfect, and I know it won't be without a gyro. But please send some links (I can't find really good posts on various forums, but maybe they're out there?) or give some advice on how to get useable shots.

I shot this in Austria, had no stabilisers, which would have helped but the IS on the lens (EF-S 18-200mm F3.5-5.6 IS) was great.

As for camera settings I shot at 24FPS @ 180º shutter, ProRes

Let me know what you think

When I was in a helicopter with my BMCC, I found it impossible to shoot steady without some sort of mount to the helicopter. I had a bullet camera mounted on the windscreen and the footage from that was MILES better than from my BMCC.

Even if you could manage a monopod...I think that, along with a lens with IS, would give you much, much better results than trying to hand hold. They just move around too much.

Rent a Tyler mount...the best $600 you'll ever spend.

Marcel, the footage from your film is sort of what I expect from a no-gyro handheld camera. Have you tried to stabilize this is in After Effects? To be honest it's too shaky, I would say it's useable for a classical documentary, but I want something less shaky. But thank you so much for uploading and your post, it really does help.

Sean, thank you for the feedback. Let's say I have to go for a monopod/tripod, which lens should I go for? I have the Sigma 8-16mm which I was planning to use, but no IS on this one.

mhood, actually I have been looking into renting gyros. And I have asked for prices from dealers on the Tyler mini gyro and also the Kenyon lab KS-8 gyro. The rental price is fair enough, but the thing is that the date of flying is uncertain, even for the company who does it. And I can't be renting a gyro for two weeks just to be ready to go when it happens, that is too expensive for me.

your problem isn't just the IS. I had the Canon 24-105 IS on mine. Purely for the IS. Shot all the footage at 24mm. I don't think you can get away with NOT using IS. I think you need both.

Here is some garbage footage I shot inside an R44 helicopter in Australia. (honestly, Marcel and I weren't together or anything! ) This was my first time in a helicopter and I had no idea where the pilot was going, nor had any input to the direction. It was a favour and I was grateful for the free ride. So I was mainly shooting as a tourist.

Unfortunately, after spending 10 minutes setting everything up, including focus, I must have knocked the focus ring when I was getting strapped in. There isn't a lot of room up front and the BMCC, with even a minimal rig, takes up alot of room. Plus, since I didn't have an EVF, I really couldn't see anything on the LCD once we were in the air. I could barely make out the image. So I shot the entire trip OOF. Which sucked because it was a great flight. Shooting through a window isn't ideal either, but I was just grateful for the free flight.

Anyway, towards the end of the clip, you'll see the center console on the right side...you see it going up and down? That's me trying to keep the camera steady with the horizon. It's a heavy camera and your arms won't do the trick If I had a monopod, I think I could have gotten some usable shots. He flew low over the water and all these pelicans were flying in front of us. Would have been great footage. I decided an EVF was my next purchase.

I don't know what device Marc is talking about, but you definitely need something!

[url]deleted[/url]


I'll take this down after a couple days...

sean mclennan wrote:your problem isn't just the IS. I had the Canon 24-105 IS on mine. Purely for the IS. Shot all the footage at 24mm. I don't think you can get away with NOT using IS. I think you need both.

Here is some garbage footage I shot inside an R44 helicopter in Australia. (honestly, Marcel and I weren't together or anything! ) This was my first time in a helicopter and I had no idea where the pilot was going, nor had any input to the direction. It was a favour and I was grateful for the free ride. So I was mainly shooting as a tourist.

Unfortunately, after spending 10 minutes setting everything up, including focus, I must have knocked the focus ring when I was getting strapped in. There isn't a lot of room up front and the BMCC, with even a minimal rig, takes up alot of room. Plus, since I didn't have an EVF, I really couldn't see anything on the LCD once we were in the air. I could barely make out the image. So I shot the entire trip OOF. Which sucked because it was a great flight. Shooting through a window isn't ideal either, but I was just grateful for the free flight.

Anyway, towards the end of the clip, you'll see the center console on the right side...you see it going up and down? That's me trying to keep the camera steady with the horizon. It's a heavy camera and your arms won't do the trick If I had a monopod, I think I could have gotten some usable shots. He flew low over the water and all these pelicans were flying in front of us. Would have been great footage. I decided an EVF was my next purchase.

I don't know what device Marc is talking about, but you definitely need something!



password is: bmcc

I'll take this down after a couple days...

Thank you so much Sean! You can take the video down now if you like, the two videoes I have seen now has been really helpful.

I'm now sure I will have to do some testing with a tripod first, maybe on a washing machine or something. And I will try to get hold of a gyro.

Marc is talking about the Tyler gyros I think, and the Tyler mini gyro is actually not too expensive to rent. It's just that I don't know the date of shooting, neither does the pilots, so I'm not sure how to solve this as I cannot rent for two weeks.

But anyway, this was really helpful, and it was really nice of you to upload just so I could see the test footage of yours. To be honest, it was bad, mostly because of the out of focus as you said. But a few of the first seconds in the video could be useable if you were able to hold that frame for a bit longer, because that wasn't too shaky.

I know it's a lot to ask for when you've already tried to help out so much, but is it possible for you to upload the same footage only its been stabilized in After Effects? And if you're good with AE, I would love this: First the whole clip without stabilization, then the whole clip with stabilization, then a "split frame" of the whole sequence to see the differences at the same time.
I'm only asking, if you don't want to then please know that I'm still grateful Cheers.

iverha wrote:mhood, actually I have been looking into renting gyros. And I have asked for prices from dealers on the Tyler mini gyro and also the Kenyon lab KS-8 gyro. The rental price is fair enough, but the thing is that the date of flying is uncertain, even for the company who does it. And I can't be renting a gyro for two weeks just to be ready to go when it happens, that is too expensive for me.

We used to rent our Tyler Mounts from Victor Duncan in Las Colinas, Texas. The first hour on the helicopter was spent flying to Victor Duncan and letting them install the Tyler Mount and balance our camera. The actual shoot was usually about an hour, then it was back to Victor Duncan to return the TM. I couldn't imagine not knowing when you were going to fly. I sure don't blame you for not wanting to rent a TM for two weeks but man does that thing smooth out the bumps.

Here's the TM I'm talking about: http://www.aerialimage.com/tylermount.html

mhood wrote:

iverha wrote:mhood, actually I have been looking into renting gyros. And I have asked for prices from dealers on the Tyler mini gyro and also the Kenyon lab KS-8 gyro. The rental price is fair enough, but the thing is that the date of flying is uncertain, even for the company who does it. And I can't be renting a gyro for two weeks just to be ready to go when it happens, that is too expensive for me.

We used to rent our Tyler Mounts from Victor Duncan in Las Colinas, Texas. The first hour on the helicopter was spent flying to Victor Duncan and letting them install the Tyler Mount and balance our camera. The actual shoot was usually about an hour, then it was back to Victor Duncan to return the TM. I couldn't imagine not knowing when you were going to fly. I sure don't blame you for not wanting to rent a TM for two weeks but man does that thing smooth out the bumps.

Here's the TM I'm talking about: http://www.aerialimage.com/tylermount.html

Wow, only $600 to rent one of those? I didn't realize they were so cheap!! I would definitely do that

iverha wrote:Marcel, the footage from your film is sort of what I expect from a no-gyro handheld camera. Have you tried to stabilize this is in After Effects? To be honest it's too shaky, I would say it's useable for a classical documentary, but I want something less shaky. But thank you so much for uploading and your post, it really does help.

Sean, thank you for the feedback. Let's say I have to go for a monopod/tripod, which lens should I go for? I have the Sigma 8-16mm which I was planning to use, but no IS on this one.

mhood, actually I have been looking into renting gyros. And I have asked for prices from dealers on the Tyler mini gyro and also the Kenyon lab KS-8 gyro. The rental price is fair enough, but the thing is that the date of flying is uncertain, even for the company who does it. And I can't be renting a gyro for two weeks just to be ready to go when it happens, that is too expensive for me.

Yeah, I didn't really know what to expect since it was my first time, but I agree, a monopod or gyro would have helped, I believe a bigger helicopter (more stable) would have been great too.. haha

Good luck!

mhood wrote:

iverha wrote:mhood, actually I have been looking into renting gyros. And I have asked for prices from dealers on the Tyler mini gyro and also the Kenyon lab KS-8 gyro. The rental price is fair enough, but the thing is that the date of flying is uncertain, even for the company who does it. And I can't be renting a gyro for two weeks just to be ready to go when it happens, that is too expensive for me.

We used to rent our Tyler Mounts from Victor Duncan in Las Colinas, Texas. The first hour on the helicopter was spent flying to Victor Duncan and letting them install the Tyler Mount and balance our camera. The actual shoot was usually about an hour, then it was back to Victor Duncan to return the TM. I couldn't imagine not knowing when you were going to fly. I sure don't blame you for not wanting to rent a TM for two weeks but man does that thing smooth out the bumps.

Here's the TM I'm talking about: http://www.aerialimage.com/tylermount.html

I just got a rental price for the Tyler mini gyro, and it is twice as much as the company you are linking to. It's about 800 dollars per day. Would love to rent the mini gyro, and will try to get financial support. Maybe I also could get a deal to rent it for lets say 4 days, but only pay for 1 or 2 days, since I only will be taking it on one ride.

I have shot quite a bit from a heli with a bmcc. I find you can easily get smooth results (well, not perect but pretty good). The type of heli makes a big difference as does weather.



I would not use a monopod but just use a good shoulder rig, wide lens and shoot at 30p. Also take gravol before flying as looking through screen can make you quite motion sick while flying.

Here is some footage I shot for a recent parks canada project. Don't mind the shadow as this clip wont be used in the final project.

Here is an article that I wrote about shooting from a helicopter last year. While I would agree that a Tyler mount is wonderful, it has to be bolted into the Helicopter. Handheld Gyro's like the Kenyon are wonderful for lighter cameras. I've also designed bungee chords that work very well. Best results come from shooting in slow motion and always wide. Hope this helps,
eric

http://holylandfilms.com/tips-for-filmi ... elicopter/

Yeah, if I could have shot from the back seat with the window open, I would have had much better results...no room for a shoulder mount in the front of an R44, well, not with my fat ass anyway

Bottom line, you need as much stabilization as you can manage/afford

Thanks for more feedback.

I have already read your post, Eric, and it is really helpful. I came across it on the web when I was searching, but filming from helictoper articles are hard to find. Actually, the Tyler mini gyro is handheld.

wyatt, thanks for the tip. I have asked for a door to be open during the shoot, but it doesn't seem like this is possible. I was told that a window could be opened, but I'm not sure how big it is, and the position and size of the window is critical if I have a shoulder rig on me. I think a monopod/tripod is a better solution if I can't get a gyro, but I've asked to atleast get a photo from inside the helicopter so I can start planning.

Thanks, guys.

I wouldnt use a tripod or monopod simply due to the vibration from the heli. Your body sucks up a lot of that vibration.

wyatt wrote:I wouldnt use a tripod or monopod simply due to the vibration from the heli. Your body sucks up a lot of that vibration.

good point...however, I fond the IS on my canon lens sucked up all the vibration from the motor mount I ran on a 69 Camaro (while the gopro footage was basically useless)

I'd be curious to test it out...who wants to give me another ride

Open door is best, I have always shot from open door, with harness rig on me. You need a clear view out of helo. Hand holding with some type of "Steady Cam/Gyro" is only way to go. I did this for 20 years, trying to do it any other way is very hard.

If you are using a two person scouting type helo, with large side window that can be opened inward or removed might work for some type of shots, like air to air of another plane. Depends on what you are trying to shoot. Most of my subjects were on the surface, so banked shots out the door was our best option.