IR cut plus ND filter BMPCC?

Hello,

this is my first post on this forum, I thought I would introduce myself.

I'm Shaun and i'm a VFX student from the UK. I recently purchased the Pocket Cinema Camera to help me in my studies. Having RAW when it's available will greatly help my green screen work. I've being using 8 bit 4:2:0 DSLR footage which isn't exactly great to key. Hopefully using Raw and even Prores HQ will improve the quality of my work But VFX isn't my only interest, learning cinematography and striving for the best image is a constant quest. As part of my studies I'm learning to grade footage which is why this camera is great for me, it allows me to use a workflow which would normally be out of my reach financially. I have been filiming on DSLR a couple of years, so i'm not a 100% new but I am starting to learn more than I did before, regarding the technical aspect of sensors and digging deeper into how cameras work.


Anyway to the point. I've been doing a lot of research about extra accessories I might need, Now I'm trying to operate this camera on a minimal set up, at the moment, it's being used for small clips only, so i'm getting away with a single lens.Although I do plan to expand on lenses slowly.

I'm using a 14mm F2.5 Panasonic Lumix which I realise isn't the fastest lens in the world but it's what I have for now. By my calculations , it comes out as a 40mm lens given the 2.88 crop factor. Which is not super wide but it will do for now.

I learned that the native and optimal ISO for the best dynamic range is 800. So If I want to remain wide open in sunny conditions I would need some ND filters or a Fader ND. I decided I wanted to go with the Fader out of convenience. Then I learned that ND's increase IR quite badly in the BMPCC, I know all Sensors are effected by this but it's a problem I would like to try and work around.

So I was looking at various fader ND's and apparently the Genus Eclipse is quite highly recommend, I can't afford a Heliopan so it was a choice between the Genus Eclipse and the Tiffin. So I think i'm going with the Genus.

I read an article by Frank Glencairn concerning this called ND FADER SHOOTOUT – HELIOPAN VS. THE NEW GENUS ECLIPSE


Which I learned about IR filters and how important they are.

So fader ND's aside, I need some kind of IR Cut filter, Frank recommends HELIOPAN – Digitalfilter, BLF 1x, LW -0. Unfortunately I can't find it stocked anywhere and It's probably very expensive. Another problem is understanding how to attach this filter to a 46mm thread on my lens. I can't find a step up ring that goes from 46-77mm, so the best I could do was 46-52 connected to 52-77mm, which leads me on to my next question, would a 77mm Fader ND vignette on a 14mm lens with a FOV of 40mm.

Basically I need a Fader ND/IR solution that will fit on my lumix 14mm lens.

Sorry for the long post, i'm new at this and i'm kind of blurting everything out at once.

It's just very daunting and confusing at times.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thank You

I use this behind my Eclipse Fader ND:
http://amzn.to/1bRhaVZ

Works a charm. Blacks are now black rather than brown.

I went with the 77mm as all my lenses are 77mm or have step up rings to 77mm.

You might wanna go smaller on the MFT lenses but then you might later add lenses with a bigger front and then you'll have to re-invest. (Like a Nikon mount Tokina 11-16mm with a speed booster which is nice for wide stuff on the BMPCC).

I use this behind my Eclipse Fader ND:
http://amzn.to/1bRhaVZ

Works a charm. Blacks are now black rather than brown.

I went with the 77mm as all my lenses are 77mm or have step up rings to 77mm.

You might wanna go smaller on the MFT lenses but then you might later add lenses with a bigger front and then you'll have to re-invest. (Like a Nikon mount Tokina 11-16mm with a speed booster which is nice for wide stuff on the BMPCC).

Adam, I read on forums before that you are suppose to put the IR cut first in a stacked position then the ND... but you are doing the opposite... it seems and it works for you... have you tried the reverse?

Adam, I read on forums before that you are suppose to put the IR cut first in a stacked position then the ND... but you are doing the opposite... it seems and it works for you... have you tried the reverse?

People are confusing IR Cut with IR Hot mirror filters. If you use a Hot mirror filer you need that to be the first filter that light strikes as it reflects light and having it last in the stack will cause reflections in back onto the other filters.

I've tried the IR cut on both ends of the stack and get the same result. As did Frank if I'm not mistaken.

I have a 77mm IR Cut filter so it won't fit the front of the Eclipse as the thread is 82mm on the front of the Eclipse. I might buy the 82mm eventually and leave it on the Eclipse but at the moment I'd rather spend my money on other kit as the current set-up works perfectly.

I only use this set-up for run 'n gun type work as normally I have a matte box and set of 4x4 IRND filters.

Maybe a stupid question and sorry for interupping your topic.

Is a fader ND the same as a variable ND?

If you just have the budget for one ND filter, and have some Nikon lenses with a 77mm ring. Will the Tiffen Variable ND be a good choice? >> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=getItemDetail&Q=&sku=813278&is=REG&si=rev#costumerReview

I want to add the Tiffen T1 Infrared Filter as a IR Cut Filter: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/658765-REG/Tiffen_W77IR_T1_Infrared_Filter_77mm.html . Is that one a good choice and will it work fine in combination with the Pocket Camera?

Fader ND, ND Fader, Variable ND... All the same thing. Based on 2 polaroid filters that rotate against each other.

Different manufactures has slightly different colour casts. None are perfect and they vary based on the sensor/camera they are used on.

The T1 will work fine. It may not be the best option for heavy ND levels.

From Tiffen site:
NOTE: The T1 IR filter contains no dichroic coating; therefore, it will not vignette green, magenta or cyan at wide angles. The T1 IR filter can be stacked with Neutral Densities up to 0.9; however, for best results it is recommended to use the Tiffen Full Spectrum IRND’s when heavier densities are required.

thanks a lot for your replies, i'll have a look into what you suggested adam, sorry I haven't got back sooner, I was beginning to think nobody was going to reply.

One thing about franks post of particular interest was the polarising effect the variable ND's have on Skin, I actually seen some videos like that, where they have been using a Vari ND and it sucked all the natural light off the skin, all the reflections which made the skin look really weird. On his article he mentions that he uses a polarising lens with the glass taken out, screwed into the front of the ND filter, and then rotates just one of them instead of both which allows him to dial down the polarising effect to 0, therefore controlling the reflections while maintaining the Neutral Density. Looks very promising, I might try the same thing. I can't afford a matt box or rail system so for me this might be a decent set up for now.

AbelCine did tests with a number of IR filters. What's interesting is the same filter achieves very different results on different cameras.