BMCC 2.5k RAW vs 5DMarkIII ML RAW

What do you guys think? What is the better camera for shooting video for films. I'm only interested in a discussion on final image quality at its maximum. I don't care that the 5D shoots pictures, has a removable battery or has audio meters. Again, all I want to discuss is final output quality of the RAW video itself....nothing more.

Hope we can have a intelligent discussion on this and not some ridiculous back and forth on things that don't really matter.

Logistics aside there's nothing in them as cameras really. Both have an aesthetic that can look superb beyond the need to technically critique - it would be splitting hairs. They're both just superbly different.

Even Alexa, Red and Sony F don't have images way beyond what these two can produce. In terms of image quality, we live in unprecedented times.

The image is very similar. I guess it comes down to a few things:

Do you need 2.5K RAW or 1080p RAW? (Have ML managed to get full 2K out of the 5D yet?)

Do you prefer the FullFrame aesthetic or 2.3x Crop aesthertic?

The image is very similar. I guess it comes down to a few things:

Do you need 2.5K RAW or 1080p RAW? (Have ML managed to get full 2K out of the 5D yet?)

Do you prefer the FullFrame aesthetic or 2.3x Crop aesthertic?

What I'm asking is what gives the better image at its maximum output. I actually like the crop sensor of the BMCC. There really aren't a ton of wide shots used in narrative film.

BMCC has easier workflow shoots to SSD cards cheaper

The ML 5d3 files I have seen in 1080p have had a quite a big of jagged/rough/pixelated edges in high-contrast areas, so in my opinion, the BMCC files are still nicer. I suspect because of the native resolution. On the 5d3 there is a lot of down-sampling going on, apparently not always a good thing.

The ML 5d3 files I have seen in 1080p have had a quite a big of jagged/rough/pixelated edges in high-contrast areas, so in my opinion, the BMCC files are still nicer. I suspect because of the native resolution. On the 5d3 there is a lot of down-sampling going on, apparently not always a good thing.

What type of down sampling is happining when shooting with ml raw? Isn't raw just raw?

The ML 5d3 files I have seen in 1080p have had a quite a big of jagged/rough/pixelated edges in high-contrast areas, so in my opinion, the BMCC files are still nicer. I suspect because of the native resolution. On the 5d3 there is a lot of down-sampling going on, apparently not always a good thing.

What type of down sampling is happining when shooting with ml raw? Isn't raw just raw?

The BMCC shoots and records RAW in its native resolution. It's sensor is 2.5K or 3.4mega pixel or 2432x1388px. There is no down sampling. The RAW file is the full sensor info.

The 5DMK3 sensor is 22.1mega pixels or 5760x3840px. ML takes that data and down samples it to a much lower resolution before writing that info to a RAW file. This can and does introduce artefacts.

The ML 5d3 files I have seen in 1080p have had a quite a big of jagged/rough/pixelated edges in high-contrast areas, so in my opinion, the BMCC files are still nicer. I suspect because of the native resolution. On the 5d3 there is a lot of down-sampling going on, apparently not always a good thing.

What type of down sampling is happining when shooting with ml raw? Isn't raw just raw?

The BMCC shoots and records RAW in its native resolution. It's sensor is 2.5K or 3.4mega pixel or 2432x1388px. There is no down sampling. The RAW file is the full sensor info.

The 5DMK3 sensor is 22.1mega pixels or 5760x3840px. ML takes that data and down samples it to a much lower resolution before writing that info to a RAW file. This can and does introduce artefacts.

Interesting.

I think the 5D should perform better in low light cos of the bigger sensor.

Just a quick question for Adam; does the BMCC exhibit any moire? I've heard it does but I've never seen any on the footage I've seen. But I know you've shot quite a bit with the camera so I just wanted to ask.

I think the 5D should perform better in low light cos of the bigger sensor.

Just a quick question for Adam; does the BMCC exhibit any moire? I've heard it does but I've never seen any on the footage I've seen. But I know you've shot quite a bit with the camera so I just wanted to ask.

It does have Moire. I get it a lot in weird patterns in clothing.

For me it is much better the BM 2.5 k. the image is more natural and more information.

BM 2.5 k is a video camera 100%. gives you more control over the image. also can work in different video formats.

the 5d only RAW. Raw photos. there are some problems regarding the audio sync.

Besides the BM is cheaper than the 5d.


you have to think about whether you want a photo camera. that also records video.

  or film camera that is 100% film.

I have seen many test videos and BM2 5d, 5k. my opinion is that the BM 2,5k is much better.

5d also believe that when recording more than 2k does not use the full frame ... sensor equals 2.5 k.

5D MUCH PRICE

bm2, 5 K. BEST PRICE

6D in theory like 5d recorded. and is cheaper. that if you compete more with blac 2.5k magic. this camera if it is more competitive with BM2, 5.

5D is gold plated.

I think the 5D should perform better in low light cos of the bigger sensor.

Just a quick question for Adam; does the BMCC exhibit any moire? I've heard it does but I've never seen any on the footage I've seen. But I know you've shot quite a bit with the camera so I just wanted to ask.

Yes it does have moire. Although this is often hidden after down sampling and online compression.

I think the 5D should perform better in low light cos of the bigger sensor.

Just a quick question for Adam; does the BMCC exhibit any moire? I've heard it does but I've never seen any on the footage I've seen. But I know you've shot quite a bit with the camera so I just wanted to ask.

Yes it does have moire. Although this is often hidden after down sampling and online compression.

Also I use a power window to blur the affected area too. It helps a lot.

Downscale or not, I see more moiré with the BMCC than I do the RAW output from the mkIII. Now the mkII on the other hand, that can be a real mess.

I haven't seen enough ML footage to know how comparable the images are. But you might want to consider recording media, formats and post workflow. Price per GB, SSDs are a lot less expensive than Compact Flash... and you can get more memory in a single SSD than a single CF card. The BMCC also allows you to shoot in DNxHD and Prores. Lastly, Blackmagic's CinemaDNG files are a lot easier to work with than the .RAW files that come out of the 5Dm3 (afaik).

Shawn

Just a quick question for Adam; does the BMCC exhibit any moire? I've heard it does but I've never seen any on the footage I've seen. But I know you've shot quite a bit with the camera so I just wanted to ask.

Moire is present in the BMCC. It's very fine and can be seen in fabrics and clothing.

Here is an example:

BMD cameras don't have OPLFs (optical low pass filters), thus getting sharper images, but also prone to moiré. Slight blurring can help both.

Just a quick question for Adam; does the BMCC exhibit any moire? I've heard it does but I've never seen any on the footage I've seen. But I know you've shot quite a bit with the camera so I just wanted to ask.

Moire is present in the BMCC. It's very fine and can be seen in fabrics and clothing.

Here is an example:

The BMCC in this example looks way sharper. Especially in the text of the child's book.

I haven't seen enough ML footage to know how comparable the images are. But you might want to consider recording media, formats and post workflow. Price per GB, SSDs are a lot less expensive than Compact Flash... and you can get more memory in a single SSD than a single CF card. The BMCC also allows you to shoot in DNxHD and Prores. Lastly, Blackmagic's CinemaDNG files are a lot easier to work with than the .RAW files that come out of the 5Dm3 (afaik).

Shawn

Definitely agree on all the above. I went for a BMPCC despite owning a 5dmkIII because the workflow is so much more appealing to me on most projects. Very happy with the decision.

Thanks guys for your input on the moire. From Adam's camera test it looks quite subtle and it's good there is a fix to reduce it a bit.