BMD Camera Slate

From my experience, when we slate, we usually have the Reel, Scene, Shot, and Take info on the slate.
A Scene can have more than one shot and each shot might go through multiple takes. So in the BMD Camera Slate, I couldn't enter "Shot" number and it does not exist. Why is this and is this something that BMD needs to be addressing in the next firmware for all their cams? I have this issue on the UMP G2 and the Pocket 6K I own.

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I've sort of addressed this before here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87441&hilit=Slate+Metadata

As a workaround I am using letters in the scene for shots.
So scene 1a, 1b, 1c and so forth. When you press the > button the slate will advance that letter (1a becomes 1b and so forth).

EDIT:
And please give as finally the option to keep video metadata when auto syncing sound in Resolve.

And please give as finally the option to keep video metadata when auto syncing sound in Resolve.

YES! I think I brought that up 2-years ago when syncing audio on a short film. I think I updated the scene metadata using the Sound Devices app first as a workaround. But still would prefer the video metadata to be kept when syncing.

And please give as finally the option to keep video metadata when auto syncing sound in Resolve.

+1.

I am working with P6Ks since they came out.
Never found a good use for the "Reel" number. It seems to be a relict from analog, unnecessary for cataloging and managing digital footage.

Sometimes I use "Reel" for the scene number and "Scene" for the shot.

Am I seeing this wrong?
What do you use the reel number slate info for?

… Sometimes I use "Reel" for the scene number and "Scene" for the shot.

Am I seeing this wrong?
What do you use the reel number slate info for?

The reel corresponds to the card I’m using. For example, if the card is B007, the reel is 007. So that’s sensible I think. I make sure my B-camera card B007 doesn’t have a corresponding A-camera card A007. Right now I’m working with A-camera cards A114-A117.

Based on prior discussions, I thought the use of alpha values with numeric values works well for shots as Robert posted above.

By the way, if you begin 1a, you can advance through 26 shots up to 1z; but if you begin 1A, you can have 52 shots, since after 1Z, the next shot becomes 1a! Just some useless information I suppose.

Using reel for cards or small SSDs makes sense.
I am working with 2TB SSDs.
A firmware upgrade with additional "Shot" option would be nice.
No need for Reel.

I am working with P6Ks since they came out.
Never found a good use for the "Reel" number. It seems to be a relict from analog, unnecessary for cataloging and managing digital footage.

Sometimes I use "Reel" for the scene number and "Scene" for the shot.

Am I seeing this wrong?
What do you use the reel number slate info for?

Reel numbers are instrumental in productions. The Letter indicates the camera ID. So Cam A has Reel A### and Cam B has Reel B###. Then each reel correlates to each card used. At the start of each day you should be starting with fresh cards/reels because DIT should have dropped and backed up footage from the previous day.

So say for example Day 1 you shoot A001, A002, and A003 on A-CAM, and then B001 and B002 B-CAM because you didn't roll B on every set up. The next day you'll start with A004 and B003. You'll keep track of this in your production notes with Camera Reports and such. This will go to editorial as well, that way there is a log of all that was captured.

Each project I start back at A001 and B001. So you'll be able to keep track of all media per project because each file name will still be unique do to the file name having the Month and Day dates.

Here's what the manual says for naming:

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My suggestion would be to use Scene for Scene and after Scene a Letter for Shot. Example Scene 12A Take 1. You're able to do this because you can put a number in for Scene and then add a letter afterwards. Then you can jump up to Scene 12B Take 1 for the next shot.

What we have been requesting for a few years is for that Scene and Shot to be separated in the Metadata Input so that it more closely corresponds to the columns in the DaVinci Resolve Slate Metadata entry. So Scene 12 Shot A Take 1, then Scene 12 Shot B Take 1... so on and so forth. Maybe a future firmware update this will finally get resolved.

[CaptainHook]

The black and blue blog describes the slating style that originally went into the camera at software 4.0 pretty well (and yes supporting different slating styles would be nice)

https://www.theblackandblue.com/2012/11 ... m-slate-1/

In the American style of slating, scene designation is actually a combination of a number and a letter. The number correlates to the scene you are shooting while the letter correlates to the shot you’re on.

So, when starting a brand new scene, you simply write just the scene number and it stands on it’s own (i.e. 24). Whenever a new shot is setup — usually when the camera changes position or changes lenses — you add a letter (i.e. 24A).

You continuously add letters for as many shots as there are in a scene. So if you shoot a master, two closeups, and a medium shot, by the end of the scene you will have reached the letter “C”

The slating would go like this:

Master – 24
Closeup One – 24A
Closeup Two – 24B
Medium – 24C

What happens if you go all the way through the alphabet? You double-up on the letters (i.e. 24 AD).

That’s the background but that’s not what happens with the BMD cameras I have (as tested on the UM4.6K) using the Scene arrow key to advance;
2A
> 2B
…
> 2Z
> 2a
…
> 2z
> 3 <~~ this is wrong so I’d manually correct to 2AA; I’ll test to see what happens later.

Edit
If you manually set a scene/shot to 1AA, it’s still the first character that auto increases, not the second;
1Z
1AA manually
> 1BA
…
> 1ZA
> 1aA
…
> 1zA
> 2

So better manually to intervene after
> 1ZA
1AB
> 1BB
> 1CB
etc.

Best to stick with the first character as uppercase alpha and the second character alpha such as 1AA -> 1ZA, 1ZB. However these really aren’t going to sort properly. Never fear, here’s what I’d recommend although it’s non-standard however it sorts better:
Manually begin 1A0 or 1A1 then
> 1A2 (will keep a counter up to 999)
…
> 1A9
…
> 1A999 the maximum but sort of sorts!
If you’re not satisfied, you can then set:
1B1
…
> 1B999
1C1 etc

Being realistic, you aren’t likely to have that many shots in a scene unless you’re shooting Mad Max X.

You don’t need 1A1, it can work with any separator such as 1-1
> 1-2
…
1-999

If you know you have less than 100 shots but more than 26 shots in a scene, begin with manually setting 1-01 and it will max out at 1-99, then scene 2 needs to be manually set to 2-01.

If you know you have a maximum of 26 shots the best way is begin 1A as described previously.

Slating depends of course on your way of managing metadata.

Reel numbers are instrumental in productions. The Letter indicates the camera ID. So Cam A has Reel A### . . .

We have the camera name already in the files' metadata. (I exclusively use BRAW.)
Even in feature length documentaries I never miss continuous reel numbers.
Each shooting day gets its own directory. Script relevant metadata is added later anyways.

But again, an additional "Shot" option would be appreciated.

The black and blue blog describes the slating style that originally went into the camera at software 4.0 pretty well (and yes supporting different slating styles would be nice)

https://www.theblackandblue.com/2012/11 ... m-slate-1/

In the American style of slating, scene designation is actually a combination of a number and a letter. The number correlates to the scene you are shooting while the letter correlates to the shot you’re on.

So, when starting a brand new scene, you simply write just the scene number and it stands on it’s own (i.e. 24). Whenever a new shot is setup — usually when the camera changes position or changes lenses — you add a letter (i.e. 24A).

You continuously add letters for as many shots as there are in a scene. So if you shoot a master, two closeups, and a medium shot, by the end of the scene you will have reached the letter “C”

The slating would go like this:

Master – 24
Closeup One – 24A
Closeup Two – 24B
Medium – 24C

What happens if you go all the way through the alphabet? You double-up on the letters (i.e. 24 AD).

Thank you for addressing this Hook! This is great to recognize. My only request has been to have separation for Resolve due to the way Resolve uses the metadata. So Scene 12 Shot (Angle) A Take 1 instead of Scene 12A Take 1.

As you saw the biggest expansion was for Production Metadata with fields for Cinematographer and such in there as well. The Slate Metadata works great otherwise with the exception of that one little pet peeve with going to Resolve afterwards.

Here is what my proposal was all those years ago:

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Nice, but allow Angle (or Shot) to be alpha or numerical as well such as 1 or 01 or 001 so media sorts properly and might be helpful for the DIT when there’s a need for a lot of shots per Scene. Granted most times alpha is fine.

Resolve Slate Metadata Example

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Here's an example I use from a 2018 scene. Using the Slate Metadata for the Display Name info you can see how the Scene and Take metadata can be used.

Also note to the side the Metadata Panel. That's how using the Slate in camera translates to Resolve.

Scene %{Scene} Take %{Take} - %{Angle}

That is the way I use the Slate Metadata to Display the Clip Name in Resolve so it appears as you see it above the clip in the Preview Window.

Here is what my proposal was all those years ago: . . .

Good suggestions for in-camera Scene and Project metadata, Tim.

And yes, is is very useful changing the files' Display Name with metadata variables as described in this short tutorial:

.

I just hope that we will actually get a firmware update for our cameras with more project and clip metadata fields.

Both Tim’s and Rick’s suggestion on Angle or Shot to be alphanumeric are good and should be a firmware update for all the UMP 4.6K Gx and 12K, as well as all the Pockets 4K/6K/6K pro. Probably the micros as well. I suggest using “Shot” instead of “Angle” since the slate person who verbally calls out the scene, shot, and take does say “Scene 1, Shot 2, Take 1” and not “Scene 1, Angle 2, Take 1” or “Scene 1A, Take 1” in all of my encounters, especially in the indie market.

Yes, in the Camera Slate Metadata versus Resolve Slate Metadata I found that Angle is really being used for the Shot Type at the moment. So when you select WS or CU that is being put into the Angle Metadata Field in Resolve. So, it depends on how they want to proceed. Maybe give the option of Shot 1 or Shot 2 or Shot A or Shot B as Shot Type Field, or change it up so those are the Angle Field and the WC or CU is the Shot Type Field.

For the most part most of the time on sets I have been on it's always called "Scene 1A Take 1" and only when we get to some corporate stuff does it change. For example teleprompter shoots we have had Script 1A and then different paragraphs are 1B, 1E, etc. So the teleprompter is split into sections for a certain script and we record that section. Then move on to Script 4A, 4C, and 4G. It's a bit more confusing and annoying with those. But corporate isn't narrative so it's handled in a different way at times.

But the traditional narrative or documentary needs remain how we should focus on this.

Also, don't forget that in Resolve all Camera Slate Metadata is Overwritten with Audio Slate Metadata when you sync to an external audio recording. So before syncing it might be a good idea to export that Camera Slate Metadata to re-import after Sync so that you don't loose the fields. But maybe the Audio Slate Metadata happens to be better handled by the sound mixer. Not always the case in my experience. This is also why I want Blackmagic to make an Audio Mixer/Recorder that works in perfect unison with their cameras and has more built in wireless timecode connectivity to make syncing a breeze.

. . . I want Blackmagic to make an Audio Mixer/Recorder that works in perfect unison with their cameras and has more built in wireless timecode connectivity to make syncing a breeze.

What are you missing on SoundDevices MixPre10 / 6 / 3 II for example?

I am working with Tentacle SYNC Es and Tentacle TRACK Es for some time now. Never before did I have such a smooth and fast TC workflow with all kinds of cameras and audio recorders. Even GoPro can be jam synced to the millisecond now. Re-syncing because of drift is of course necessary.

. . . don't forget that in Resolve all Camera Slate Metadata is Overwritten with Audio Slate Metadata when you sync to an external audio recording.

When you set the Starting Timecode of the dailies timeline for a given day's material properly and throw all video and audio on to the timeline using timecode, everything is in sync and no metadata is lost.
You can then link on the dailies timeline whatever you need. This method is very easy to learn.

Second that. It's the professional approach.

. . . I want Blackmagic to make an Audio Mixer/Recorder that works in perfect unison with their cameras and has more built in wireless timecode connectivity to make syncing a breeze.

What are you missing on SoundDevices MixPre10 / 6 / 3 II for example?

I am working with Tentacle SYNC Es and Tentacle TRACK Es for some time now. Never before did I have such a smooth and fast TC workflow with all kinds of cameras and audio recorders. Even GoPro can be jam synced to the millisecond now. Re-syncing because of drift is of course necessary.

. . . don't forget that in Resolve all Camera Slate Metadata is Overwritten with Audio Slate Metadata when you sync to an external audio recording.

When you set the Starting Timecode of the dailies timeline for a given day's material properly and throw all video and audio on to the timeline using timecode, everything is in sync and no metadata is lost.
You can then link on the dailies timeline whatever you need. This method is very easy to learn.

The only reason I ask is that when I use Tentacle Sync with a Sound Devices is that the Slate Metadata from the camera is overwritten with the sound slate metadata. At least it does it with my UMPG2. I mainly use the Pockets for corporate and then usually record audio into camera via the XLR ports.

Maybe I need to talk with my sound mixers to see what they are doing that may cause their audio files to overwrite that metadata.


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Maybe I need to talk with my sound mixers to see what they are doing that may cause their audio files to overwrite that metadata.

I think the audio person is not doing anything to cause loss of metadata. It is only overwritten when you use "Auto Sync Audio" -> "Based on . . . " directly on the media. Plus your audio will only be replaced / appended for the duration of the video file this way.

Working with the method I described above, you will never loose any metadata and you have the whole audio length in the correct position on the dailies timeline, even the parts without cameras running.