[UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

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Nathan_H

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[UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostThu Aug 12, 2021 10:09 am

Hello,

I'm writing this post in order to gather some people about the fact that the UMP series need a firmware updates.
I personnaly owns a UMP G2.

Feel free to list the realistic ones.

1 - GEN5 color sciences in Prores
I have client that wants prores, I tends to have pockets as B or C cams... this needs to be addressed.

2 - A new screen layout : camera data / info outsite the actual image.
I have situations where I need to shoot 16:9, 9:16, 5:6 at the same time, it's silly and a nightmare ;)
Having my camera informations outsite of my framing would help to visualise everything.
I mean even in 16:9, this camera display is bugging me.
A display like a Arri / Venice / Red would be much appreciated.


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BLACKMA_1.jpg (286.33 KiB) Viewed 9857 times
BLACKMA_ARRI_2.jpg
BLACKMA_ARRI_2.jpg (134.91 KiB) Viewed 9857 times




3 - An Overheating alarm
In this case I don't know if it's doable. I had a bunch of times my URSA (it's my 3rd one) getting too hot to reboot after a change of battery. (shooting 300fps raw, on a burning racetrack in mexico city). It doen't happens often but it does happens. I found that it was heat by experience....
Putting an alarm or a temperature display somewhere would feel a lot safer for me.

Last request but for the next ursa : please make the D-Tap / accessories power independant to the power of the camera. That way if I do a playback I don't have to relaunch all my accessories.

Thanks a lot
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SaschaH

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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostThu Aug 12, 2021 11:28 am

+1 on all of those!

Gen5 is really needed, of course I shoot braw in the majority of cases but there is the occasional client that wants Prores and giving them Prores clips with matching color science is really needed.

Nathan, regarding your last point, I'm using a V-Mount adapter plate to work around the switched d-tap:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... plate.html

All the D-Tap you could ask for and my monitors / Teradek stays powered through playback - and you can still have everything plugged in when changing batteries.
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Demetrius Spencer

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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostThu Aug 12, 2021 12:05 pm

I totally agree with the ProRes fight, but I doubt it's going to happen. It seems as if the new broadcast cameras that BM released recently are only BRaw. If this is a sign they're moving away from ProRes all together I won't be able to be a BM customer. My corporate clients (Delta Air, Nike, and various celebrity projects) are very specific in wanting ProRes.
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Nathan_H

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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostThu Aug 12, 2021 12:31 pm

Thanks Sacha for the tips, I usually hook my accessories to a multi D-Tap directly to the battery, this might help to spread the load safely !

Demetrius, I understand how you feel about their direction... I do think they need to keep Prores in mind.

If you simply look at how RED has been dealing with Prores, you know this is still a must have now.
Pockets have prores in GEN5, I can't understand how the UMP doesn't have it already.
https://vimeo.com/nathanhenneton/showreel2019
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timbutt2

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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostThu Aug 12, 2021 12:32 pm

I’d love these updates. But I feel like the G2 isn’t loved by Blackmagic anymore. So I’m looking forward to the future and the next generation UMP whether it’s another 12K or a 16K VV.


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"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2 & Pocket 6K Pro
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Nathan_H

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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostThu Aug 12, 2021 12:36 pm

12 or 16K is a non-sense.
6K Vista Vision whould be great and largely enought. We're cropping in and out of sensors for multiple delivery but I personnaly never needed 8K but I definitly needed some post softening for talent..

Give those makeup artist a break :lol:

12 or 16K ? If they go that route, I don't see myself being a customer anymore.
https://vimeo.com/nathanhenneton/showreel2019
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Ellory Yu

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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostThu Aug 12, 2021 2:10 pm

Nathan_H wrote:1 - GEN5 color sciences in Prores

This is very important and I hope BMD is reading the request of many here. In the last year, most of the narrative projects I have worked on the producers required them to be shot in Prores. We recently shot using the Pocket 6K with the 7.3 update in 4K Prores and it would have been nice if that was our B-cam and the UMP G2 I owned was the A-cam.

Nathan_H wrote:12 or 16K is a non-sense.
6K Vista Vision whould be great and largely enough. We're cropping in and out of sensors for multiple delivery but I personally never needed 8K but I definitely needed some post softening for talent..
12 or 16K ? If they go that route, I don't see myself being a customer anymore.

I don't need anything beyond 6K. Possibly 8K but have no need for it really. Instead of resolution, how about global shutter and more DR (18+ stops), Image Stabilization, and/or Low Light capabilities.
URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2, Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 6K, Panasonic GH5
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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostThu Aug 12, 2021 3:04 pm

Nathan_H wrote:12 or 16K is a non-sense.
6K Vista Vision whould be great and largely enought. We're cropping in and out of sensors for multiple delivery but I personnaly never needed 8K but I definitly needed some post softening for talent..

Give those makeup artist a break :lol:

12 or 16K ? If they go that route, I don't see myself being a customer anymore.
I understand. I don’t need 12K or 16K resolution. But the benefit of the new sensor is that you can downscale in BRAW to 8K and 4K on the 12K still using the full sensor. Yet, since a lot of people request VistaVision size I’m simply pointing out that using the Super 35mm 12K that VistaVision would be 16K.

For me the best benefit of going that size is getting true 4-perf 35mm size for anamorphic widescreen.

I’m definitely on the side of agreeing to more dynamic range and a global shutter. Yet, I’m positive Blackmagic will keep with their sensor design, which means 12K. So again that practical math that going to VistaVision results in 16K.


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"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2 & Pocket 6K Pro
Past: UM4.6K, P6K, BMCC 2.5K
Computers: iMac 5K (Mid 2020) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
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Nathan_H

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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostFri Aug 13, 2021 8:22 pm



I might just have changed my mind after watching this.... This sensor looks surreal... damn...
https://vimeo.com/nathanhenneton/showreel2019
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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostFri Aug 13, 2021 8:30 pm

Nathan_H wrote:
I might just have changed my mind after watching this.... This sensor looks surreal... damn...



Your link is broken.

The main reason to get the 12K os because of the way it does colour and multi resolution without scaling.

I’ve never had issues with the camera overheating. And I’ve been in vey very hot situations, all day for days at a time.

I shot an entire series in the middle of outback Australia. Multiple cameras. Daily temperatures were 48degC on average from memory.

https://flic.kr/p/UwjZgW

JB
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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostFri Aug 13, 2021 10:24 pm

John Brawley wrote:Your link is broken.

I fixed the link. They were linking to Notes video.
**Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**
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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostFri Aug 13, 2021 11:56 pm

CaptainHook wrote:
John Brawley wrote:Your link is broken.

I fixed the link. They were linking to Notes video.

Love this footage. Note did a fantastic job.

And, Hook has seen this thread. That means the BMD Camera Team is aware of the desire for Gen 5 on the UMP G1 & G2. Fingers crossed it happens.

Hook, I can't wait to see what you guys do next. Thinking about it I'm all for a 16K VistaVision. Would be great to see how my DZOFilm Vespid Primes look on a VistaVision sensor since they cover that area.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2 & Pocket 6K Pro
Past: UM4.6K, P6K, BMCC 2.5K
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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostTue Aug 17, 2021 9:40 pm

By the way, I had to double check; August 28th, 2019.

That was the latest firmware update for the UMP G2: 6.5.1

No updates for the camera since that date. And, very few before that date.

To "Bring UMPG2 Up to Date" you'd need to add:

1) Gen 5 Color Science
2) Additional BRAW Compression Options
3) Custom Frame Guides, plus some Preset Frame Guide Updates
4) Color Histogram with Color Channel Clipping
5) Pinch to Zoom, up to 8X

Those are generally all the updates that the Pocket 4K got and it came out before the UMPG2. The Pocket 6K, which came out after also got those updates.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2 & Pocket 6K Pro
Past: UM4.6K, P6K, BMCC 2.5K
Computers: iMac 5K (Mid 2020) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostWed Aug 18, 2021 5:10 am

Don't forget power save option.
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Demetrius Spencer

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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostWed Aug 18, 2021 4:45 pm

Oh and please fix the issue where I have to power my smallhd monitor back on each time I go from record to playback and vice versa.

The image in the video is beautiful. I'm sure the glass used played somewhat of a part...

Has there been any type of poll to see the number oft BM users' clients are accepting braw and the number that require ProRes? I've tried to push braw since it's inception and no corporate clients have accepted it. Even lost out on a few gigs after asking...
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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostWed Aug 18, 2021 6:44 pm

Demetrius Spencer wrote:Oh and please fix the issue where I have to power my smallhd monitor back on each time I go from record to playback and vice versa.

The image in the video is beautiful. I'm sure the glass used played somewhat of a part...

Has there been any type of poll to see the number oft BM users' clients are accepting braw and the number that require ProRes? I've tried to push braw since it's inception and no corporate clients have accepted it. Even lost out on a few gigs after asking...

1) You could power the SmallHD direct from the Battery P-Tap. Get a P-Tap splitter if you must. Honestly, it works better that way.

2) Most of Note's video was the Sigma Art 18-35mm f1.8 I believe. There was some other lenses in there that he mentioned months ago when it was first released.

3) As to the poll. Tough to say. I get a lot of requests for ProRes, so that's what I do. When I'm not given anything specific I go BRAW for the extra quality. Sometimes I've been told BRAW is fine for me to hand over to a client. Usually when they say BRAW is fine it is because they can handle working with it. I definitely prefer shooting in BRAW.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2 & Pocket 6K Pro
Past: UM4.6K, P6K, BMCC 2.5K
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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostThu Aug 19, 2021 2:29 am

timbutt2 wrote:
Demetrius Spencer wrote:Oh and please fix the issue where I have to power my smallhd monitor back on each time I go from record to playback and vice versa.

The image in the video is beautiful. I'm sure the glass used played somewhat of a part...

Has there been any type of poll to see the number oft BM users' clients are accepting braw and the number that require ProRes? I've tried to push braw since it's inception and no corporate clients have accepted it. Even lost out on a few gigs after asking...

1) You could power the SmallHD direct from the Battery P-Tap. Get a P-Tap splitter if you must. Honestly, it works better that way.

2) Most of Note's video was the Sigma Art 18-35mm f1.8 I believe. There was some other lenses in there that he mentioned months ago when it was first released.

3) As to the poll. Tough to say. I get a lot of requests for ProRes, so that's what I do. When I'm not given anything specific I go BRAW for the extra quality. Sometimes I've been told BRAW is fine for me to hand over to a client. Usually when they say BRAW is fine it is because they can handle working with it. I definitely prefer shooting in BRAW.


1) Thanks timbutt2. you're right I could do all of those work arounds, but I'd prefer if stuff just works. My G1 doesn't have that problem so I assumed the G2 wouldn't either. When showing playback to a client and then having to turn the monitor back on before doing another take just adds a step that I've been accustomed to not doing with the G1. Just one less thing to have to think about when focusing on getting stuff right.

2) I totally understand that some of your clients accept braw, just so happens that none of mine do for corporate gigs which is the majority of my work. I'm sure for some of the wedding and bday gigs it woudln't matter, but I'd still just prefer the option of ProRes.

Thanks for the feedback. I love reading others perspectives and insights.
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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 9:32 am

Well, seems like the G2 is out of the running now that the 12K has dropped to its price, right? You think they were just selling off G2 stock or something?
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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostFri Aug 20, 2021 10:42 am

I posted on this forum almost a year ago about the need for Gen5 for Ursa G2. I can not believe its not been done yet. Seems like an oversight, a mistake.. Theres no business-reason for not doing it. Its not a big enough feature to hold of potential buyers to a new/other cameras, but it not so small that it doesnt matter to their customers. It just creates frustration. Could we not learn at least WHY it is not being implemented?

best regards
Howard
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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostWed Aug 25, 2021 8:23 am

John Brawley wrote:
Nathan_H wrote:
I might just have changed my mind after watching this.... This sensor looks surreal... damn...



Your link is broken.

The main reason to get the 12K os because of the way it does colour and multi resolution without scaling.

I’ve never had issues with the camera overheating. And I’ve been in vey very hot situations, all day for days at a time.

I shot an entire series in the middle of outback Australia. Multiple cameras. Daily temperatures were 48degC on average from memory.

https://flic.kr/p/UwjZgW

JB


Hello John,

Thanks for answering. I since educated myself to the need of 12K for better colors etc, the Note video show incredible colors both on my iphone and my 4K OLED 15inch display. That's impressive.

It's tempting, but the lack of prores... is not possible for me, and using external recorder isn't practical at all.

Regarding the overheating, it might be the difference in style of shooting ?
You're shooting narrative with a crew, I'm shooting race doc / promo with tons of slow mo in broad daylight, no shade, very short cool-of times, long takes as well. It might be the slowmotion thing, a tech from BM could explains us what stress most the camera. but clearly I don't lie saying that I had overheating issues on certains occasions with the URSA G2 that I owned. It happened on sports events, never on commercials.

The camera is just refusing to start back-up after a change of batterie. If you cool it down (AC for 5mins), it will boot like never happened. A message from the camera saying "camera is overheating" or a temperature check would be a must to me.



ps: loved your work on "The Great", such a cool show !
https://vimeo.com/nathanhenneton/showreel2019
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Nathan_H

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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 8:06 am

I might add :

- Possibility to have more undercranked options : minimum frame rate is now 12 or 13 fps / sec, I would love to have the possibility to go as low as 5 fps.

Great tool for Music Videos. Arri (and pocket 4K) does it.
In this particular situation a different playback option would be great.


Thanks.

ps: Wishing for a 6K FF URSA with everything above, a 3.5 / 4K S35 mode and prores...
https://vimeo.com/nathanhenneton/showreel2019
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Travis Hodgkinson

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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 9:09 am

Nathan_H wrote:I might add :

- Possibility to have more undercranked options : minimum frame rate is now 12 or 13 fps / sec, I would love to have the possibility to go as low as 5 fps.

Great tool for Music Videos. Arri (and pocket 4K) does it.
In this particular situation a different playback option would be great.


Thanks.

ps: Wishing for a 6K FF URSA with everything above, a 3.5 / 4K S35 mode and prores...


Hi Nathan, I'm intrigues by your comment about under cranking in music videos. Can you explain how it's used or better link me to an example.

Thanks Trav
Freelance Camera Op & Cinematographer based in Brisbane, Australia.
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Weapons: URSA 12K + Canon XF605 + Hero 10 + Pocket 6K Pro
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Nathan_H

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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 9:16 am

That's enable you to have long exposure.

Here are some exemples :



At around 2mins:


https://vimeo.com/nathanhenneton/showreel2019
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Travis Hodgkinson

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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 10:03 am

Nathan_H wrote:That's enable you to have long exposure.

Here are some exemples :



At around 2mins:




Thanks for taking the time!

Will give them a watch now
Freelance Camera Op & Cinematographer based in Brisbane, Australia.
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Weapons: URSA 12K + Canon XF605 + Hero 10 + Pocket 6K Pro
Optics: DZO Pictor Zooms + SLR Magic Hyper Prime + Tokina Cinema Zoom
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John Brawley

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Re: [UMP] Firmware Updates Needed

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 1:07 pm

Nathan_H wrote:I might add :

- Possibility to have more undercranked options : minimum frame rate is now 12 or 13 fps / sec, I would love to have the possibility to go as low as 5 fps.



I think this isn't something that can be done in firmware. The limitation is in hardware (which is why you see it in some models and not others)

JB
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