Blackmagic Forum

TechCrunch talks with Apple VP Kaiann Drance and Human Interface Team designer Johnnie Manzari about the genesis of cinematic mode.

"The first thing that the team did was go speak to some of the best cinematographers and camera operators in the world. They also went to movies and watched examples of films through time.

“In doing this, certain trends emerge,” says Manzari. “It was obvious that focus and focus changes were fundamental storytelling tools, and that we as a cross-functional team needed to understand precisely how and when they were used.”

They then worked closely with directors of photography, camera operators and 1st ACs, whose responsibilities include focus pulling. Observing them on set and asking questions."

“We’re on set and we have all these amazing people and they’re really the best of the best. And one of the engineers noticed that the focus puller has this focus control wheel, and he’s just studying the way that this person does this. Just like when you look at like someone who’s really good at playing the piano, and it looks so easy, and yet you know it’s impossible. There’s no way you’re going to be able to do this,” says Manzari.

“This person is an artist, this person is so good at what they do and the craft they put into it. And so we spent a lot of time trying to model the analog feel of a focus wheel turning.”

The entire interview can be found here: https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/23/how-a ... atic-mode/

Yes, a lot of pr talk. A lot... Give me a break.

What is so great about their approach to this subject in iPhone 13 as I don't see anything very good there at all ?
What came out of this Apple intensive analysis? Gimmicky feature which works in auto mode mainly, without much of any detailed manual control (which cinematographer word like)? Did they really need so much research to come up with such a cinematic mode (operationally wise)? Wow- I assume Apple has money so they can waste as much as they want.

Take good techie guy, seat it with focus puller and some cinematographer (show well chosen sample scenes) for a day and subject covered.

Corpos love their pr crap.
I work with XXX tools which are very expensive and reading their announcements etc in most cases makes me laugh
With good enough pr you can make people think poo is a gold these days. A lot would believe.

JonPais wrote:Director, actor, stuntman, writer, producer, and stunt coordinator David Leitch, co-director of John Wick, director of Atomic Blonde, Deadpool 2 and Hobbs and Shaw, shows how to direct action for a shoot with an iPhone.

What I think after watching it.
Industry needs a PROPER small camera (not an iPhone or GoPro) which could be used in the way how they used iPhone. Well designed, film grade (of course with all the limitations) 'action' camera. That's it.

Still have no idea what someone is trying to tell me ? That an iPhone can shoot a video? That an iPhone can shoot a video which is good enough to make money on it? That amount of money spent on this promo videos is insane (same with this year one)?

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:

JonPais wrote:Director, actor, stuntman, writer, producer, and stunt coordinator David Leitch, co-director of John Wick, director of Atomic Blonde, Deadpool 2 and Hobbs and Shaw, shows how to direct action for a shoot with an iPhone.

What I think after watching it.
Industry needs a PROPER small camera (not an iPhone or GoPro) which could be used in the way how they used iPhone. Well designed, film grade (of course with all the limitations) 'action' camera. That's it.

Still have no idea what someone is trying to tell me ? That an iPhone can shoot a video? That an iPhone can shoot a video which is good enough to make money on it? That amount of money spent on this promo videos is insane (same with this year one)?

It’s called parody, dude.

JonPais wrote:t’s called parody, dude.

This guy in the video is trying to sell the iphone, with all the conviction money from Apple can buy, to would-be filmmakers. Or, at least, to people who love their phones. No parody there at all. Forget the small army of crew and stunt persons he's hired, and what the insurance premium must have cost, with all these kids involved.

And then there's the laughable claim that all you need to make an action movie (parodic or serious) is a [small] camera. But even in that case, there are dozens of other small cameras better suited to controlled shooting and post-production. Time to retire this thread?

John Paines wrote:

JonPais wrote:t’s called parody, dude.

This guy in the video is trying to sell the iphone, with all the conviction money from Apple can buy, to would-be filmmakers. Or, at least, to people who love their phones. No parody there at all. Forget the small army of crew and stunt persons he's hired, and what the insurance premium must have cost, with all these kids involved.

And then there's the laughable claim that all you need to make an action movie (parodic or serious) is a [small] camera. But even in that case, there are dozens of other small cameras better suited to controlled shooting and post-production. Time to retire this thread?

It’s parody, dude. Please do not spread misinformation.

John Paines wrote:

JonPais wrote:t’s called parody, dude.

This guy in the video is trying to sell the iphone, with all the conviction money from Apple can buy, to would-be filmmakers. Or, at least, to people who love their phones. No parody there at all. Forget the small army of crew and stunt persons he's hired, and what the insurance premium must have cost, with all these kids involved.

And then there's the laughable claim that all you need to make an action movie (parodic or serious) is a [small] camera. But even in that case, there are dozens of other small cameras better suited to controlled shooting and post-production. Time to retire this thread?

It’s parody, dude. Please do not spread misinformation. Anybody at all familiar with Leitch and his work instantly recognizes his trademark deadpan delivery and sense of humor.

So, in that case, you agree the whole iphone promotion is nonsense? You're engaged in parody as well? And go easy on the dude, thing, bro. It's not as cool as you think.

John Paines wrote:So, in that case, you agree the whole iphone promotion is nonsense? You're engaged in parody as well? And go easy on the dude, thing, bro. It's not as cool as you think.

Apparently, Apple did commission Leitch to shoot the ad, after all.

Of course they did. You can find that Apple commercial listed right on his imdb page.

Killer iPhone 13 HDR footage.

John Paines wrote:So, in that case, you agree the whole iphone promotion is nonsense? You're engaged in parody as well? And go easy on the dude, thing, bro. It's not as cool as you think.

It's all marketing. IMHO, most if not almost all IPhone 13/13 Pro owners does not even know what is meant by being "cinematic". It a buzz that sounds cool, a fad to many wannabes, and of course all about big budget marketing that makes those uninformed buy the IPhone 13/13 Pro. Some fella at a Dallas airport was telling his mate that Apple Prores is the IPhone pro resolution camera. I almost burst in laughter.

I own an IPhone... and ah... "I" use it as a, well, "Phone".

Jon, nice to see some footage that looks decent played on my Pro Display XDR with the standard P3-ST 2084 reference preset. Also fine on Apple’s P3-1600 nits preset but I never use that non-standard setting.

Living in the Great Northwest, it’s inclement weather almost everyday in November. Maybe I’ll be able to use my wife’s iPhone 13 and shoot some test BT.2020 video mid-month if the weather predictions are accurate.

Kim Janson wrote:A true pro cinematographer would know not to post 24 fps on youtube, as there is nothing cinematic on 24 fps on 60 hz monitor, that is what most youtube watchers use.

Really?
Do you think Netflix streams 30p/60p? (nothing is probably at this fps). Somehow I don't have much of a problem watching it.
Also now with some new machines you get multi refresh rate (not variable one), so if I want to watch 24p 'properly' you can always turn on 48Hz mode. Next step for Apple is actually turn on 72Hz and maybe 96Hz modes as well, so we get even bit more robust preview. There is a lot what can be done (should be done for videos needs), but somehow it was going very slowly. Now with streaming pushing hard companies realised that computers became more and more video consumption devices.
It's 21st century and you should not really have problems to watch video on modern machine regardless if it's 24p or 60p.

Kim Janson wrote:A true pro cinematographer would know not to post 24 fps on youtube, as there is nothing cinematic on 24 fps on 60 hz monitor, that is what most youtube watchers use.

I disagree. Have you seen all the full length feature films you can watch on YouTube? Those are likely 24fps streaming down to your 60 hz monitor.

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Really?
Do you think Netflix streams 30p/60p? (nothing is probably at this fps). Somehow I don't have much of a problem watching it.
Also now with some new machines you get multi refresh rate (not variable one), so if I want to watch 24p 'properly' you can always turn on 48Hz mode. Next step for Apple is actually turn on 72Hz and maybe 96Hz modes as well, so we get even bit more robust preview. There is a lot what can be done (should be done for videos needs), but somehow it was going very slowly. Now with streaming pushing hard companies realised that computers became more and more video consumption devices.
It's 21st century and you should not really have problems to watch video on modern machine regardless if it's 24p or 60p.

I agree with Andrew.

Solution is not necessarily shot at 30fps, but having ALL monitors been able to display 60Hz you just need to introduce other refresh rates eg. 50Hz, 48Hz (like some monitors already been doing it for years).
Apple realised this (took them long time though). Time for others.

Apple's cinematic lock at 30fps makes no sense (I understand they can't go higher). Pro feature locked to 1 option, yet normal shooting can use all needed fps options.
I've just realised that I even did not try cinematic mode