An interesting read... or watch

This was on my Facebook feed a day or two ago:

I thought it was a well thought out post.

Like many of you I've been pretty impressed with the cameras that Red is putting out in the last year or so. I love the global shutter. Don't get me wrong, I'm also very very happy with the footage I'm getting out of my Blackmagic's. Also having built in NDs has made a huge difference for me. I'm not missing shots when they happen quickly... and I love the BRAW workflow.

Just thought this was a good watch. It struck home on many of the things I'd been thinking about.

Happy reading... watching.

After watching the video, I think his experience with the G2 on reliability is more of the exception case than the normal. I have had my G2 for a while now and (knock on wood) have not had any issues with it. The Pocket 6K is a workhorse and would be much better if BM takes the internals of the Pocket 6K Pro (with the NDs) and assemble it into a new box form factor body like the Komodo. That will be my next investment, but until then the G2 and Pocket 6K does it for my projects. I wouldn't consider the UMP 12K even at the current discount because it is bound to be obsolete (that's my opinion) and the workflow is much more expensive if only to end up with a 2K or 4K deliverables. I definitely find the Red Komodo to be a nice camera with its global shutter and small box form factor. I'll definitely shoot another narrative project with it. I wouldn't purchase it as the camera can be easily (and cheaply) rented at my local rental place.

Komodo sucks at high frame rate.

Komodo sucks at high frame rate.

I do mostly narrative films so HFR is uncommon for the genre I do. Usually I shoot in 23.976 and 24fps. 48fps is high enough for anything to reduce motion blur or get some slow motion if ever that’s needed. Komodo does well for it.

Komodo sucks at high frame rate.

I do mostly narrative films so HFR is uncommon for the genre I do. Usually I shoot in 23.976 and 24fps. 48fps is high enough for anything to reduce motion blur or get some slow motion if ever that’s needed. Komodo does well for it.

For narative I use BMMCC, for high frame rates the G2. Komodo just won't do for slow motion.

AF has become more important for me. I hope bmd is hearing.

Ricardo Marty

AF has become more important for me. I hope bmd is hearing.

Ricardo Marty

I need it for gimbal work.

Not everyone has the same workflow and camera configuration need. Therefore what sucks for you may be golden for someone else and vice versa. HFR can be overrated in the world of narrative filmmaking but not if you're doing commercials.

Box form factor that can be rig, global shutter, and AF are good to have in their next model. Although AF is nice to have, it is not a priority to my workflow.

The world of commercial and promotional work is likely to be more lucrative for many. BMD cameras is popular in those type of market but absent of good AF is a bum.

Not everyone has the same workflow and camera configuration need. Therefore what sucks for you may be golden for someone else and vice versa. HFR can be overrated in the world of narrative filmmaking but not if you're doing commercials.

Box form factor that can be rig, global shutter, and AF are good to have in their next model. Although AF is nice to have, it is not a priority to my workflow.

The good thing about having AF is that you don't have to use it if you don't need it. But having only manual has no alternative.

Ricardo Marty

Not everyone has the same workflow and camera configuration need. Therefore what sucks for you may be golden for someone else and vice versa. HFR can be overrated in the world of narrative filmmaking but not if you're doing commercials.

Box form factor that can be rig, global shutter, and AF are good to have in their next model. Although AF is nice to have, it is not a priority to my workflow.

The good thing about having AF is that you don't have to use it if you don't need it. But having only manual has no alternative.

Ricardo Marty

I did say it is a nice to have but for my workflow it is not a priority. It could be yours however. A priority feature for me is global shutter and box form factor design. Again, as I said we have different needs and workflows. Hopefully BMD could accommodate all our requests.

Longtime BMD user goes to the dark side.

Not everyone has the same workflow and camera configuration need. Therefore what sucks for you may be golden for someone else and vice versa. HFR can be overrated in the world of narrative filmmaking but not if you're doing commercials.

Box form factor that can be rig, global shutter, and AF are good to have in their next model. Although AF is nice to have, it is not a priority to my workflow.

You got your dream camera from Panasonic it even records braw to video assist, Panasonic Lumix BS1H Full-Frame Box-Style Live & Cinema Camera.


Compact and suitable for cine drones, remote setups, and expandable for cine work as well as multi-camera broadcast work, the Panasonic Lumix BS1H Full-Frame Box-Style Live & Cinema Camera is a modular digital cinema camera with a small form-factor that bellies its full-frame sensor. It features a 24.2MP sensor, a Leica L lens mount, and a wide 14+-stop dynamic range to accommodate extreme lighting changes when recording in V-Log. It records video with resolutions up to 5.9K as well as C4K (4096 x 2160) and UHD4K, and it incorporates VariCam Look workflows.

The camera features dual-native ISO using its Venus Engine, anamorphic support, advanced AF (autofocus), numerous remote and power options, and supports HLG (Hybrid Log-Gamma) color for vivid imagery to aid professional color grading. There are many features packed into this tiny camera that make it the go-to production camera in any mobile and multi-camera production environment.

The BS1H provides multiple ways to record your footage to high data rate files in the ALL-Intra, LongGOP, MOV, and MP4 recording formats with H.264 and H.265/HEVC codecs. The camera supports unlimited recording time and allows you to record 10-bit 4:2:2 video using the camera's dual SD card slots. It can output up to 4K via the HDMI 2.0 output, or you can output up to 1080p resolution via SDI. The camera allows you to output via HDMI and SDI simultaneously, so you can use one signal for monitoring and the other for recording. It also supports recording at variable frame rates for high-quality, slow-motion video. Custom 3D LUTs can be uploaded into the camera, using the SD card slots.

The BS1H is also an ideal camera for multi-camera environments, not only because it's highly mobile, but it includes timecode and genlock BNC ports, so you can sync it with other cameras to make syncing in postproduction easy. Its RJ45 Gigabit LAN port allows you to sync with other networked BS1H cameras, manage the camera settings and functions, and even perform direct IP streaming with a future firmware update. Wi-Fi and Bluetooth functionality are also integrated for monitoring, configuration, and control via a smartphone or tablet, using the LUMIX Sync app. Another function integrated into the BS1H is a USB 3.1 Gen 1 Type-C input to control the camera with the LUMIX Tether app, which allows you to capture still images and control up to 12 BS1H cameras. Audio features include high-grade 48 kHz/24-bit LPCM format, an integrated stereo microphone, a 3.5mm mic/line-level input, and a 3.5mm headphone output. The optional DMW-XLR1 XLR adapter can be utilized, using the camera's integrated hot shoe, allowing you to record with professional microphones.

Its compact body measures less than 4" square and weighs only 1.3 lb, so it can be used on gimbals or drones for high-quality, stabilized footage. Its internal fan keeps the camera cool during long shoots, and its aluminum and magnesium housing provides protection and adds to the cooling factor. It also features 9 x accessory mounting threads for mounting onto a plate, cage, or tripod mount. There are four user-programmable function buttons around the housing as well as tally lights on the front and rear. You can power the BS1H using the included power adapter, with a separately available high-capacity VBR-type battery using its integrated mount, or by using PoE+ (Power-over-Ethernet) via the LAN port with compatible PoE equipment.

Ricardo Marty

Compact and suitable for cine drones, remote setups, and expandable for cine work as well as multi-camera broadcast work, the Panasonic Lumix BS1H Full-Frame Box-Style Live & Cinema Camera is a modular digital cinema camera with a small form-factor that bellies its full-frame sensor. It features a 24.2MP sensor, a Leica L lens mount, and a wide 14+-stop dynamic range to accommodate extreme lighting changes when recording in V-Log. It records video with resolutions up to 5.9K as well as C4K (4096 x 2160) and UHD4K, and it incorporates VariCam Look workflows.

The camera features dual-native ISO using its Venus Engine, anamorphic support, advanced AF (autofocus), numerous remote and power options, and supports HLG (Hybrid Log-Gamma) color for vivid imagery to aid professional color grading. There are many features packed into this tiny camera that make it the go-to production camera in any mobile and multi-camera production environment.

The BS1H provides multiple ways to record your footage to high data rate files in the ALL-Intra, LongGOP, MOV, and MP4 recording formats with H.264 and H.265/HEVC codecs. The camera supports unlimited recording time and allows you to record 10-bit 4:2:2 video using the camera's dual SD card slots. It can output up to 4K via the HDMI 2.0 output, or you can output up to 1080p resolution via SDI. The camera allows you to output via HDMI and SDI simultaneously, so you can use one signal for monitoring and the other for recording. It also supports recording at variable frame rates for high-quality, slow-motion video. Custom 3D LUTs can be uploaded into the camera, using the SD card slots.

The BS1H is also an ideal camera for multi-camera environments, not only because it's highly mobile, but it includes timecode and genlock BNC ports, so you can sync it with other cameras to make syncing in postproduction easy. Its RJ45 Gigabit LAN port allows you to sync with other networked BS1H cameras, manage the camera settings and functions, and even perform direct IP streaming with a future firmware update. Wi-Fi and Bluetooth functionality are also integrated for monitoring, configuration, and control via a smartphone or tablet, using the LUMIX Sync app. Another function integrated into the BS1H is a USB 3.1 Gen 1 Type-C input to control the camera with the LUMIX Tether app, which allows you to capture still images and control up to 12 BS1H cameras. Audio features include high-grade 48 kHz/24-bit LPCM format, an integrated stereo microphone, a 3.5mm mic/line-level input, and a 3.5mm headphone output. The optional DMW-XLR1 XLR adapter can be utilized, using the camera's integrated hot shoe, allowing you to record with professional microphones.

Its compact body measures less than 4" square and weighs only 1.3 lb, so it can be used on gimbals or drones for high-quality, stabilized footage. Its internal fan keeps the camera cool during long shoots, and its aluminum and magnesium housing provides protection and adds to the cooling factor. It also features 9 x accessory mounting threads for mounting onto a plate, cage, or tripod mount. There are four user-programmable function buttons around the housing as well as tally lights on the front and rear. You can power the BS1H using the included power adapter, with a separately available high-capacity VBR-type battery using its integrated mount, or by using PoE+ (Power-over-Ethernet) via the LAN port with compatible PoE equipment.

Ricardo Marty

Did you really just copy and paste an ad here?

Did you really just copy and paste an ad here?

LOL! Promise I won’t copy and paste it here. That’s good what Panasonic did. Now let’s see if Blackmagic can top that at half the price.

Did you really just copy and paste an ad here?

LOL! Promise I won’t copy and paste it here. That’s good what Panasonic did. Now let’s see if Blackmagic can top that at half the price.

No, I copied pasted the BH overview

Ricardo Marty

Longtime BMD user goes to the dark side.

I don’t know why, but that dude has always rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it’s his clickbait titles or his flat-billed hat, haha. Kidding about the hat, but he has the vibe of putting out content just for clicks.
Again, he’s making money and getting gigs. Maybe I’m just jealous of his YT income, haha

The Pocket 6K is a workhorse and would be much better if BM takes the internals of the Pocket 6K Pro (with the NDs) and assemble it into a new box form factor body like the Komodo.

If BMD did that, I would not buy it. I doubt that many are buying Panasonic cube cams either. People want Komodo because it is Red. I much prefer an ergonomic hand hold able shape that you can wear around your neck with a strap, with smooth lines, large LCD.

Arri's cube-shaped Mini is super flexible and enormously popular. Its symmetrical shape, light weight and compact design makes it suited for handheld work, flying on a gimbal, shoulder mounted or mounted on a drone. Same for the KOMODO.

Arri's cube-shaped Mini is super flexible and enormously popular.

On crewed sets. BMD serves a different market, as evidenced by the sales of the 4k/6k. A cube is not suited to handheld work, the convenience of a camera in a bag or solo shooters. Hard to see the rationale for it, at the low end.

Arri's cube-shaped Mini is super flexible and enormously popular.

On crewed sets. BMD serves a different market, as evidenced by the sales of the 4k/6k. A cube is not suited to handheld work, the convenience of a camera in a bag or solo shooters. Hard to see the rationale for it, at the low end.

You could very well be correct.

An army of YouTubers, Twitchers and podcasters are driving sales of Blackmagic’s mid-range products like the Pocket 4K and switchers.

Every time I've come across a BMD camera - which isn't often - it's always been mounted on a gimbal, though.

Not sure how great it is to handhold without stabilization, though I've seen a lot of shaky footage taken with them on YT.

When I was studying photography in College, I owned a Rolleiflex TLR and a Pentax 645, and I enjoyed shooting handheld with cameras like that.

The Pocket 6K is a workhorse and would be much better if BM takes the internals of the Pocket 6K Pro (with the NDs) and assemble it into a new box form factor body like the Komodo.

If BMD did that, I would not buy it. I doubt that many are buying Panasonic cube cams either. People want Komodo because it is Red. I much prefer an ergonomic hand hold able shape that you can wear around your neck with a strap, with smooth lines, large LCD.

If BMD did that, I would definitely buy it and many of the independent DOPs I know. We won't but the Panasonic cube cam but a BMD option to the Komodo is a definite YES! People want Komodo because it has flexibility, just like other cubes including the Arri Alexa Mini, etc.

Arri's cube-shaped Mini is super flexible and enormously popular. Its symmetrical shape, light weight and compact design makes it suited for handheld work, flying on a gimbal, shoulder mounted or mounted on a drone. Same for the KOMODO.

+1. Exactly my point too. If you are a cinematographer, you will find this to be valuable. Not much for videographers.

Every time I've come across a BMD camera - which isn't often - it's always been mounted on a gimbal, though.

Not sure how great it is to handhold without stabilization, though I've seen a lot of shaky footage taken with them on YT.

My PCC4k lives either on a tripod / monopod or I am using it handheld. The Olympus Pro 12-100 f/4.0 provides excellent stabilization (although like any OIS it can't prevent instability around the roll axis).

For example I've just finished a client project where we introduce for the award ceremony each master thesis of scholarship holders of seven universities. In 5 shooting days I had to film interviews with those 19 scholarship holders (1 did a self interview) and 17 supervisors. Plus subject images of them in the lab etc.

The result is a film between 1:30 - 2:00 minutes in length per scholar - in total 38 minutes.

All interviews of the whole university were done at one place, a light setup, boomed mic and camera on the tripod. Subject images are then filmed in labs, workplaces etc - because of the time restraints I often have to restrict shooting to mostly one take per scene. I go with the scholar to the space - which I get to see for the first time then - let them show me what they do there, set my lights and disassemble in my head the scene into individual shots while filming and directing them. It's a combination of working with the camera on the monopod and handheld work.

Some of the handheld shots (like a short walk, push in, side move) need post stabilization in the edit - depending on the shot I can either use Resolves stabilizer, AFX warp stabilizer with customization or Syntheyes 3D tracker stabilization.

BTW, quite often when I watch other people working their gimbal, they tend to do the same moves over and over - a moving pan from left to right and vice versa, a long walking push in or out and so on. And most of the shots are wide angles. If you then watch the end result its an endless series of moves slowed down by 50% and no visual storytelling.

Arri's cube-shaped Mini is super flexible and enormously popular.

On crewed sets. BMD serves a different market, as evidenced by the sales of the 4k/6k. A cube is not suited to handheld work, the convenience of a camera in a bag or solo shooters. Hard to see the rationale for it, at the low end.

There is a rationale. Indie filmmakers need flexibility at a fraction of the cost of an Arri. This is where Komodo and hopefully BMD making a cube cine cam comes in. What market is BMD serving that is different? I'm confused because they tout their cameras are "cinema" camera, the likes of RED and Arri. If it is NOT for cinematographers, then don't call their cameras "Cinema Camera". Cinema cameras are meant to be used where ever in needs too. If you want an in a bag or solo shooter camera, but a prosumer DSLR or camcorder.

I would say BMD lives in the area of affordable cinema-style cameras/setup.

I can't justify or afford a Alexa Mini or the rigging of all such gear it takes.
So what I want vs what I can afford:
Alexa Mini vs UMPG2
Cooke s4s vs SLR Magic APO Microprimes
etc...

I have never used autofocus. I don't use gimbals, so all the 'box-style' vibe isn't really appealing.
I will probably get whatever next-gen BMD camera releases if its the new sensor.

What market is BMD serving that is different? I'm confused because they tout their cameras are "cinema" camera, the likes of RED and Arri. If it is NOT for cinematographers, then don't call their cameras "Cinema Camera". Cinema cameras are meant to be used where ever in needs too. If you want an in a bag or solo shooter camera, but a prosumer DSLR or camcorder.

Most BMD customers aren't making what's usually meant by "cinema", but in any case, why does cinema need a cube? Look at all the stuff shot on film cameras with nothing but a lens, a viewfinder and a battery.

What's ironic is, 16mm equipment was seen as liberating filmmakers from big crews and heavy gear. Now, when self-contained cameras offer quality and convenience undreamed of in the 16mm heyday, folks are clamoring for equipment which depends on rigging. Each to his own, but even *with* crews I don't see the attraction of these complications on low-budget productions.

As for buying a prosumer DSLR or camcorder instead, the customer says otherwise: if shooters didn't want what BMD is offering in a DSLR format, the 4k/6K would have been discontinued years ago. Should the company end a popular product line because convenience and ease of use doesn't square with somebody's notion of "cinema"? I can't see it....

Each to his own, but even *with* crews I don't see the attraction of these complications on low-budget productions.

As you said, "each to his own." It's not complicated. Rigging offers flexibility. We just need a box with a sensor and to control it, to attach lenses, and batteries. Everything else can be attached to each own's need and liking.

if shooters didn't want what BMD is offering in a DSLR format, the 4k/6K would have been discontinued years ago. Should the company end a popular product line because convenience and ease of use doesn't square with somebody's notion of "cinema"? I can't see it....

If you read my advocation for a BMD box form factor in this forum, I never said to replace the Pocket 4K/6K with a box form factor. What I am advocating is a new product line that is between the Pocket and the URSA, in a box form factor. Also, I said as a start, BMD could take what they have successfully made with the P6K Pro, take its guts (or internals) and put it in a box form factor. This gives shooters a wide range of choices. And if they want to be a cinema camera manufacturer and vendor, then stick to that message too. I can see this happening. The following pro camera manufacturers and vendors have box form factors in their pro line... Arri, RED, Panasonic, Z-Cam, Kinefinity, etc.

Blackmagic already has a cube camera the Micro Cinema camera but despite it having 60fps the OG Pocket which it is based on most likely sold more. People wanted convenient of mirrorless camera with a screen.
Having a dSLR/mirrorless camera body means you can take it anywhere and people think you have a stills camera but having a box rigged up draw attention that you might be filming professionally and you may be ask to stop.

What's ironic is, 16mm equipment was seen as liberating filmmakers from big crews and heavy gear. Now, when self-contained cameras offer quality and convenience undreamed of in the 16mm heyday, folks are clamoring for equipment which depends on rigging. Each to his own, but even *with* crews I don't see the attraction of these complications on low-budget productions.

As for buying a prosumer DSLR or camcorder instead, the customer says otherwise: if shooters didn't want what BMD is offering in a DSLR format, the 4k/6K would have been discontinued years ago. Should the company end a popular product line because convenience and ease of use doesn't square with somebody's notion of "cinema"? I can't see it....

[/quote]

Today's style of shooting is completely different to when 16mm cameras became popular. We now expect a camera that can easily be put on a gimbal, a lightweight slider, mounted to a car etc. You really can't compare the two. I started shooting on BetaSp cameras that were big and sat on your shoulder. Ergonomically these were great with an EVF, shoulder mount and all buttons easily accessed. There is no way I am buying a big shoulder mounted camera today for the ways that I work. A box style form factor is hugely practical and flexible.
In my experience, 90% of the shooters I see with Pocket Cameras have them rigged up. The customer generally isn't buying the Pocket Cameras for its raw form factor. Sure they are buying it for its small size, but mainly, they are buying it for it's image quality to price ratio. Give them a small sized camera with the same image and similar price but in a box style camera and BMD will open themselves up to a whole new market.
I've had the Pocket4k since it's release and now the Pocket6k Pro for 6 months. While the P4K has been rock solid reliable, I'm now onto my third P6K body. The last issue I had was the screen dying on a shoot. Look at forums of people with Ursa Mini's and you will also see plenty of screen issues. Blackmagic, in the semi pro to pro space are seen as fairly unreliable (toy) cameras.
Creating a well built box form factor and doing away with things like flippy/tilt screens can also create a more reliable camera and could change the perception of BMD cameras to those users. It's the old saying, 'Keep is Simple Stupid'....it would do BMD huge favours in changing their image by creating a small, reliable and flexible box style camera...loose the moving parts (apart from internal ND's!) and it's much easier to create a reliable camera for less money. A box style would also allow for bigger batteries to be used rather than being limitedto the NPF550 that fits in the grip. Look at other cameras like Z-Cam, Canon C series, Sony FS series, all of them have a battery sled on the back that can take various sized batteries again adding to the flixibility of the camera.
I think a camera between the Pocket and Ursa Mini is desperately needed and BMD is missing on a big share of the market by not having one.
The trends I'm seeing are that those who want a dslr or mirrorless form factor camera to use it bare bones in the hand so as to not draw attention to themselves are also realising that they now are wanting AF and IBIS and so are returning to modern mirrorless cameras which have come a long way recently with their 10bit codecs and large sensors. Those that do need more flexibility in a small package for pro use are looking at Komodo, FS6 etc...

Blackmagic already has a cube camera the Micro Cinema camera but despite it having 60fps the OG Pocket which it is based on most likely sold more. People wanted convenient of mirrorless camera with a screen.
Having a dSLR/mirrorless camera body means you can take it anywhere and people think you have a stills camera but having a box rigged up draw attention that you might be filming professionally and you may be ask to stop.

Okay, this is getting out of hand. I am a professional filmmaker and the reason I entertain a cinema camera is because I am shooting professionally. If I was just vlogging, making YouTube videos, I wouldn’t be using a Cine cam instead will use a DSLR mirrorless camera or an IPhone. I don’t vlog or make YouTube videos. I am aware of the BMMCC which we have used a few as crash cams several years ago and it suit the purpose. Not sure what is it that you are trying to say here. I believe there is a mixture of posters who are professionals, hobbyist, and those who are not so sure why they want a BMD camera except of the publicity, the cheap price, or just buying a cinema camera they can only afford for the looks and ego.

What's ironic is, 16mm equipment was seen as liberating filmmakers from big crews and heavy gear. Now, when self-contained cameras offer quality and convenience undreamed of in the 16mm heyday, folks are clamoring for equipment which depends on rigging. Each to his own, but even *with* crews I don't see the attraction of these complications on low-budget productions.

As for buying a prosumer DSLR or camcorder instead, the customer says otherwise: if shooters didn't want what BMD is offering in a DSLR format, the 4k/6K would have been discontinued years ago. Should the company end a popular product line because convenience and ease of use doesn't square with somebody's notion of "cinema"? I can't see it....

Today's style of shooting is completely different to when 16mm cameras became popular. We now expect a camera that can easily be put on a gimbal, a lightweight slider, mounted to a car etc. You really can't compare the two. I started shooting on BetaSp cameras that were big and sat on your shoulder. Ergonomically these were great with an EVF, shoulder mount and all buttons easily accessed. There is no way I am buying a big shoulder mounted camera today for the ways that I work. A box style form factor is hugely practical and flexible.
In my experience, 90% of the shooters I see with Pocket Cameras have them rigged up. The customer generally isn't buying the Pocket Cameras for its raw form factor. Sure they are buying it for its small size, but mainly, they are buying it for it's image quality to price ratio. Give them a small sized camera with the same image and similar price but in a box style camera and BMD will open themselves up to a whole new market.
I've had the Pocket4k since it's release and now the Pocket6k Pro for 6 months. While the P4K has been rock solid reliable, I'm now onto my third P6K body. The last issue I had was the screen dying on a shoot. Look at forums of people with Ursa Mini's and you will also see plenty of screen issues. Blackmagic, in the semi pro to pro space are seen as fairly unreliable (toy) cameras.
Creating a well built box form factor and doing away with things like flippy/tilt screens can also create a more reliable camera and could change the perception of BMD cameras to those users. It's the old saying, 'Keep is Simple Stupid'....it would do BMD huge favours in changing their image by creating a small, reliable and flexible box style camera...loose the moving parts (apart from internal ND's!) and it's much easier to create a reliable camera for less money. A box style would also allow for bigger batteries to be used rather than being limitedto the NPF550 that fits in the grip. Look at other cameras like Z-Cam, Canon C series, Sony FS series, all of them have a battery sled on the back that can take various sized batteries again adding to the flixibility of the camera.
I think a camera between the Pocket and Ursa Mini is desperately needed and BMD is missing on a big share of the market by not having one.
The trends I'm seeing are that those who want a dslr or mirrorless form factor camera to use it bare bones in the hand so as to not draw attention to themselves are also realising that they now are wanting AF and IBIS and so are returning to modern mirrorless cameras which have come a long way recently with their 10bit codecs and large sensors. Those that do need more flexibility in a small package for pro use are looking at Komodo, FS6 etc...

Alright Tony. You know what you’re saying. However you quoted the wrong person. I did not post what you quoted above. . Please correct it as I did here on this replied post.

Blackmagic already has a cube camera the Micro Cinema camera but despite it having 60fps the OG Pocket which it is based on most likely sold more. People wanted convenient of mirrorless camera with a screen.
Having a dSLR/mirrorless camera body means you can take it anywhere and people think you have a stills camera but having a box rigged up draw attention that you might be filming professionally and you may be ask to stop.

Okay, this is getting out of hand. I am a professional filmmaker and the reason I entertain a cinema camera is because I am shooting professionally. If I was just vlogging, making YouTube videos, I wouldn’t be using a Cine cam instead will use a DSLR mirrorless camera or an IPhone. I don’t vlog or make YouTube videos. I am aware of the BMMCC which we have used a few as crash cams several years ago and it suit the purpose. Not sure what is it that you are trying to say here. I believe there is a mixture of posters who are professionals, hobbyist, and those who are not so sure why they want a BMD camera except of the publicity, the cheap price, or just buying a cinema camera they can only afford for the looks and ego.

Pretty simple really. More people buy cameras with a screen, also there is option to cage it and add your own rig as if you are using a cube. The proof is in the market, more OG Pocket got sold than Micro Cinema despite the latter having 60fps.

What's ironic is, 16mm equipment was seen as liberating filmmakers from big crews and heavy gear. Now, when self-contained cameras offer quality and convenience undreamed of in the 16mm heyday, folks are clamoring for equipment which depends on rigging. Each to his own, but even *with* crews I don't see the attraction of these complications on low-budget productions.

As for buying a prosumer DSLR or camcorder instead, the customer says otherwise: if shooters didn't want what BMD is offering in a DSLR format, the 4k/6K would have been discontinued years ago. Should the company end a popular product line because convenience and ease of use doesn't square with somebody's notion of "cinema"? I can't see it....

Today's style of shooting is completely different to when 16mm cameras became popular. We now expect a camera that can easily be put on a gimbal, a lightweight slider, mounted to a car etc. You really can't compare the two. I started shooting on BetaSp cameras that were big and sat on your shoulder. Ergonomically these were great with an EVF, shoulder mount and all buttons easily accessed. There is no way I am buying a big shoulder mounted camera today for the ways that I work. A box style form factor is hugely practical and flexible.
In my experience, 90% of the shooters I see with Pocket Cameras have them rigged up. The customer generally isn't buying the Pocket Cameras for its raw form factor. Sure they are buying it for its small size, but mainly, they are buying it for it's image quality to price ratio. Give them a small sized camera with the same image and similar price but in a box style camera and BMD will open themselves up to a whole new market.
I've had the Pocket4k since it's release and now the Pocket6k Pro for 6 months. While the P4K has been rock solid reliable, I'm now onto my third P6K body. The last issue I had was the screen dying on a shoot. Look at forums of people with Ursa Mini's and you will also see plenty of screen issues. Blackmagic, in the semi pro to pro space are seen as fairly unreliable (toy) cameras.
Creating a well built box form factor and doing away with things like flippy/tilt screens can also create a more reliable camera and could change the perception of BMD cameras to those users. It's the old saying, 'Keep is Simple Stupid'....it would do BMD huge favours in changing their image by creating a small, reliable and flexible box style camera...loose the moving parts (apart from internal ND's!) and it's much easier to create a reliable camera for less money. A box style would also allow for bigger batteries to be used rather than being limitedto the NPF550 that fits in the grip. Look at other cameras like Z-Cam, Canon C series, Sony FS series, all of them have a battery sled on the back that can take various sized batteries again adding to the flixibility of the camera.
I think a camera between the Pocket and Ursa Mini is desperately needed and BMD is missing on a big share of the market by not having one.
The trends I'm seeing are that those who want a dslr or mirrorless form factor camera to use it bare bones in the hand so as to not draw attention to themselves are also realising that they now are wanting AF and IBIS and so are returning to modern mirrorless cameras which have come a long way recently with their 10bit codecs and large sensors. Those that do need more flexibility in a small package for pro use are looking at Komodo, FS6 etc...

If the BS1H and S1H were the two cameras offered most people will looked at the two and then the price and won't take long to decide on the S1H.
BMD probably lose some but not a big share of the market by not making say a Pocket 6k version of a cube camera.
As for reliability of a cube camera Komodo has lots of bad experience with blown SDI. I'm sure RED and other so call pro cameras has it own fair share of failures or worse than BMD.

Pretty simple really. More people buy cameras with a screen, also there is option to cage it and add your own rig as if you are using a cube. The proof is in the market, more OG Pocket got sold than Micro Cinema despite the latter having 60fps.

Not the people I know. Most of them buy cameras with a detachable screen at the very least.
Sure, If BMD are solely chasing the DSLR market then they can keep the pocket line for that (but they better add IBIS and AF soon cos those customers seem to be gagging for it!) but there is a huge market BMD are missing out on by having nothing between the Pocket and Ursa Mini. lines
Are you also saying that 'because more people buy cameras with screens' then there is no market for Red, Arri, Z Cam etc?

Also, markets change. How long ago was the OG pocket? People bought the OG pocket because they were coming from DSLR's so the form factor was similar to what they were using. Over the years however, more and more people have realised that for video use, this form factor is not ideal and a push is being made toward more modular cameras.

Sure you can just add a cage to the current pocket camera and this is what I have done to both of mine but this does not solve the issues of internal battery limitations, and the very wide body and off centre lens mount.
You seem dead against BMD releasing another model camera. Why?

If BMD doesn't offer something along the lines of the FX6, EOS C200, Komodo etc, I personally can see the Current BMD cameras I own being my last.

As for reliability of a cube camera Komodo has lots of bad experience with blown SDI. I'm sure RED and other so call pro cameras has it own fair share of failures or worse than BMD.

But Blackmagic has had big issues with screens and build quality. It's all about lowering the chances of things going wrong. Sure, all manufacturers can have issues here and there and quite a few companies have had issues with SDI ports but by trying to give the customer all the bells and whistles at a super low price, compromises need to be made and that's usually in build quality and reliability. So, for the pro's out there, just give them what they need in a better, more reliable overall package.

YOU might chose the S1H over it's boxed sibling but there is a huge market that will chose the BS1H .

Personally I don't care about the form factor. I could adapt either way.

I have come to love the built-in NDs. Though I've not had problems, the build issues others have reported make me nervous. Having SDI and connectors that are not easily damaged would give me more confidence. I can really see the difference global shutter makes to handheld/shoulder footage.

But I do love the footage I'm making with the Blackmagic cameras that I have. Hitting the point where it's not so much buying a new camera as spending more time using what I have and making better footage.

From Netflix movie Red Notice. Johnnyfpv’s first feature film shoot. Possibly the first usage of an FPV in a feature film ever, using one of the very first prototypes of the camera.