URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

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ursag2

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URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostThu Jan 13, 2022 3:47 pm

Good afternoon everyone.

I am a user of the BLACKMAGIC URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 model. I have tried on multiple occasions to record in its maximum quality 4.6K Braw 3.1 120FPS, but to date I have not gotten a USB-C disk or card that collects that speed. I understand that the speed that the camera asks for is 752MB / s, that I have been told from Blackmagic support.

I have been recommended a Sandisk Extreme Pro USB-C disk with 1000mb / s sequential write. Unfortunately I have not been able to test that disc. I would also like to try a USB-C converter from an M.2 disk which is faster. The question is, has anyone managed to reach this quality without stopping in the recording? This has me quite pissed off because I have bought a heavy camera and Blackmagic has not helped me much in this regard.

Thank you. All the best.
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timbutt2

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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostThu Jan 13, 2022 4:17 pm

I think it might be a tall order asking shoot 4.6K BRAW in 3:1 compression at 120 FPS. I've successfully shot 60 FPS in 5:1 for sure. With the older URSA Mini 4.6K I used to be able to do 60 FPS in 4:1 CinemaDNG RAW. So, It might be possible to do 60 FPS in 3:1. But I think 120 FPS might be pushing it.

Drop down to 5:1 and see if you succeed. If not then 8:1 for sure works at 120 FPS as I have shot a lot at that BRAW compression and frame rate.
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ursag2

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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostThu Jan 13, 2022 4:25 pm

timbutt2 wrote:I think it might be a tall order asking shoot 4.6K BRAW in 3:1 compression at 120 FPS...


I understand what you mean, but that's why I'm looking for options in this forum. Recording at 60 FPS is not difficult with a Samsung T5 or a CFAST card. The problem is that the camera offers a maximum quality 4.6K Braw 3.1 120FPS that I have not been able to access at the moment and it has been 2 years. I need an answer from someone who got it!
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Ellory Yu

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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostThu Jan 13, 2022 6:19 pm

Like you, I have been searching for similar option. I don't think there is any out in the market that will let you to have a sustained write for 120fps 4.6K BRAW 3:1. Even those fast M.2 drives with advertised speed of > 1000MB/s sequential write won't cut it. It has to be sustained write and not sequential write speed. My investigation has led me that even the fastest M.2 drives only delivers up to ~620MB/s sustained write. You need at least ~697MB/s to record at such quality and rate. You can try to go down to 120fps 4K DCI or 4.6K 2.40:1 aspect ratio with BRAW 3:1 and that would require a sustained write speed of ~518MB/s. Let us know if you have found a media that will do what you want with drop frames at all. That will be interesting news.
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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostThu Jan 13, 2022 6:21 pm

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Ellory Yu

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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostThu Jan 13, 2022 6:33 pm

Mark Foster wrote:https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/faq/59015

None of those certified drives on BM list will do 120fps 4.6K BRAW 3:1. The most they would do is at 60fps and that's not what the OP is asking.
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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostThu Jan 13, 2022 6:48 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:Like you, I have been searching for similar option. I don't think there is any out in the market that will let you to have a sustained write for 120fps 4.6K BRAW 3:1. Even those fast M.2 drives with advertised speed of > 1000MB/s sequential...



It's a shame. Thanks for your reply, it helps me a lot with my research. It gives me a lot of courage how the brand can manufacture a camera but not generate a solution for the specifications it offers. It's really weird, they offer a camera with a quality that you can't get and they don't help you get it either. Hopefully a Blackmagic technician sees this post and has an answer according to the problem.

All the best.
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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostThu Jan 13, 2022 7:59 pm

ursag2 wrote: It's really weird, they offer a camera with a quality that you can't get and they don't help you get it either. Hopefully a Blackmagic technician sees this post and has an answer according to the problem.

All the best.


Isn't the problem that there isn't a media solution fast enough that's available to do this?

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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostThu Jan 13, 2022 9:18 pm

If you’re shooting BRAW with dual card recording on CFast2 (alternate frames to each card), you should manage with Wise or Angelbird matched cards.
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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostThu Jan 13, 2022 10:51 pm

rick.lang wrote:If you’re shooting BRAW with dual card recording on CFast2 (alternate frames to each card), you should manage with Wise or Angelbird matched cards.

There's no dual card recording option on the G2. The 12K has it, but not the G2.

I'll be curious to see what happens when there is a move to faster media like CFExpress in the future. I bet with dual card recording there you could sustain a 16K 120 FPS shot... haha. Doubtful. That's a lot of data even for dual card recording with CFExpress. But CFExpress could open the door for the 12K sensor to achieve 120 FPS at 12K.

We'll have to wait to see what Blackmagic announces later this year.
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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostThu Jan 13, 2022 11:13 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:
Mark Foster wrote:https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/faq/59015

None of those certified drives on BM list will do 120fps 4.6K BRAW 3:1. The most they would do is at 60fps and that's not what the OP is asking.


no, but the fastest drive he can use
and BMD says 4,6k 120fps only in 8:1 !
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... /W-URSA-34

and if some people would take the trouble to look at such things beforehand,
or read the manual - that is why I post these links ; -)

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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostThu Jan 13, 2022 11:23 pm

Is the USB-C port on the G2 able to fully utilize USB3.1 Gen2 bandwidth?

If that's the case try with a reliable USB3.1 Gen2 or USB3.2 Gen 2 to nvme enclosure (basically the same thing) and try the WD SN750 nmve drive (1TB or 2TB, lower capacities don't have the same sustained write performance).

The aforementioned Sandisk Drive is using a similar drive inside (same hardware but slightly different firmware so it should work in theory too.

Please report back!
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rick.lang

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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostFri Jan 14, 2022 4:27 am

Thanks for correcting me, Tim. Since the original URSA Mini 4.6K uses dual card recording I assumed the later models did too
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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostFri Jan 14, 2022 11:53 am

Wow Tim, that surprised me too. I have the URSA Mini Pro (G1) and the 12K and duel recording is GREAT. What might BMD have been thinking? Is it something that could be addressed in firmware?
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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostFri Jan 14, 2022 12:47 pm

rick.lang wrote:Thanks for correcting me, Tim. Since the original URSA Mini 4.6K uses dual card recording I assumed the later models did too
You are right Rick, dual recording was born with cdng, G2 was born after braw and in Blackmagic Design don’t add this, only with braw 2.0 they develop a dual recording for braw and recover for 12k the ability of dual card recording.
I ever hope they recover it somewhere for Ursa Mini Pro g1 braw in dual card. Anyway I use it with latest firmware that allow me to have both, cdng and braw, I had the best of dual worlds .
And actually I just have dual cable to connect to dual card slot my ssd to share between all Blackmagic Design cameras that I had.


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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostFri Jan 14, 2022 12:49 pm

Jeffrey D Mathias wrote:Wow Tim, that surprised me too. I have the URSA Mini Pro (G1) and the 12K and duel recording is GREAT. What might BMD have been thinking? Is it something that could be addressed in firmware?
I think should be a right cache and right hardware support it, be cause you should manage a data rate and split data between dual recording.
Also for g1 they never release the ability to do braw splitted on dual card (at today I not need it), but for g2 should be good to support less compression and more fps


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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostFri Jan 14, 2022 2:39 pm

Jeffrey D Mathias wrote: Is it something that could be addressed in firmware?



My feeling is that dual recording was planned for the G2 (hey it's got two slots!) and on the firmware update list, but like gen 5 it's down the priority list of the very small dev team that keep having other things added in front of it.

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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostFri Jan 14, 2022 3:45 pm

I had the same problem with my 12k.

Find a drive that is fast enough to record in maximum quality and the recommendations of Blackmagic really did not help me.

I tried different drives until I found the right one that worked. Every M.2 Pro SSD should be fine for you.
USB-C = 10GBit/s = 1.250 MBytes/s

Cf-Cards are too slow to get the maximum shot on your G2.

On my 12k I use very fast U.2 SSD's for maximum Quality without any dropouts during 25 min Recording time.
So for your G2 a Samsung 980 Pro M.2, normally, should do the job well.
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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostFri Jan 14, 2022 3:57 pm

Jeffrey D Mathias wrote:Wow Tim, that surprised me too. I have the URSA Mini Pro (G1) and the 12K and duel recording is GREAT. What might BMD have been thinking? Is it something that could be addressed in firmware?

I have not used the dual card feature and thought that the G2 had it as well. Agree, why did BMD not have it on the G2? I'm not sure if BM is still doing anything with the G2 firmware but that would be a good update. Then my two requested firmware update for the G2 now are:
1. Gen 5 color science in camera
2. Dual card recording
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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostFri Jan 14, 2022 10:49 pm

nicowieditz wrote:
Cf-Cards are too slow to get the maximum shot on your G2.


Have you tried in dual card mode ? At what specs ?

JB
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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostSat Jan 15, 2022 12:36 am

I do not know if there is dual card mode possible on the G2.

On my 12k I tried to use wise 2x 1TB in dual card mode and get drop outs after few seconds at 12k DCI from 33 fps at 12:1

Usually shoot for Vfx clean feeds in 12k at 50 fps and 5:1

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Re: URSA MINI PRO 4.6K G2 - MAXIMUM QUALITY

PostSat Jan 15, 2022 4:20 pm

nicowieditz wrote:
On my 12k I tried to use wise 2x 1TB in dual card mode and get drop outs after few seconds at 12k DCI from 33 fps at 12:1



You should be getting way better performance than that on the 12K. I presume they are the supported cards ?

JB
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