No BMD announcement of any kind., strange

The Ursa Mini Pro G2 is three years old and I’m not seeing them sell that low. I can’t find any online used for under $4000. Where have you seen one sell for 50%? I’d honestly love to know. $3000 would be an amazing deal for a UMP G2.

Broken ones are selling here for 600-800 €. A functioning G1 was recently going for 1,800.

The Ursa Mini Pro G2 is three years old and I’m not seeing them sell that low. I can’t find any online used for under $4000. Where have you seen one sell for 50%? I’d honestly love to know. $3000 would be an amazing deal for a UMP G2.

I just did a search now on URSA in OfferUp and local Craigslist. Didn’t get a hit on G2 today but sooner or later, a couple or three shows up. I just saw a couple of UMP G2 last month for $2600 and $2800. But today we have a few catch though. Check this out.

How about a URSA 12K for $2500.
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/e ... 33616.html

How about an older URSA Mini 4.6K for less than $1.2K. I know this are older than 3 years but I think you get the drift.
https://offerup.co/VYywHy3X6tb
https://offerup.co/3j5BSvdY6tb
https://offerup.co/t3M1xEfY6tb

The Ursa Mini Pro G2 is three years old and I’m not seeing them sell that low. I can’t find any online used for under $4000. Where have you seen one sell for 50%? I’d honestly love to know. $3000 would be an amazing deal for a UMP G2.

I just did a search now on URSA in OfferUp and local Craigslist. Didn’t get a hit on G2 today but sooner or later, a couple or three shows up. I just saw a couple of UMP G2 last month for $2600 and $2800. But today we have a few catch though. Check this out.

How about a URSA 12K for $2500.
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/e ... 33616.html

How about an older URSA Mini 4.6K for less than $1.2K. I know this are older than 3 years but I think you get the drift.
https://offerup.co/VYywHy3X6tb
https://offerup.co/3j5BSvdY6tb
https://offerup.co/t3M1xEfY6tb

Man that Ursa 12k sounds too good to be true

Why would it make good business sense for BMD to buy old cameras?

They have a good business model right now…offer more for less than what anyone else does. It’s incredibly successful. There’s no need to foster brand loyalty…it kind of means nothing when the customers will ALWAYS go with the best value proposition. I doubt it would actually do anything to increase sales and BMD then has to deal with a bunch of used cameras.

A better way of fostering brand loyalty would be extending their service for those that need repairs out of warranty or just doing a 3 or 5 year AppleCare add on. BMDs current negative perception is that they are cheap (they are!) and this means they will break easily. One way to address that is to provide a way to say we’ve got your back.

The trade in model makes zero sense with such low cost items. Look at the ratio between BMDs lowest cost camera and their most expensive…..then do the same for Sony… it’s huge magnitudes of difference.

JB

How about a URSA 12K for $2500.

I smell a scam.
...and this includes the lens, handle, swivel arm, Nucleus, case... the URSA12K must be a shell

A better way of fostering brand loyalty would be extending their service for those that need repairs out of warranty or just doing a 3 or 5 year AppleCare add on.

I would definitely pay for this, John. Alternatively, since they are such good value you could buy 2 of em! I know this isn't practical, seriously, for a lot of people, including me, but in the case of my UBG2, the next even comparable alternatives, from other manufacturers, are at least 5x the price but they are in no way IMO, 5x the quality or value.

They have a good business model right now…offer more for less than what anyone else does.

I think most freelancers can relate to that lol.

The Ursa Mini Pro G2 is three years old and I’m not seeing them sell that low. I can’t find any online used for under $4000. Where have you seen one sell for 50%? I’d honestly love to know. $3000 would be an amazing deal for a UMP G2.

I just did a search now on URSA in OfferUp and local Craigslist. Didn’t get a hit on G2 today but sooner or later, a couple or three shows up. I just saw a couple of UMP G2 last month for $2600 and $2800. But today we have a few catch though. Check this out.

How about a URSA 12K for $2500.
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/e ... 33616.html

How about an older URSA Mini 4.6K for less than $1.2K. I know this are older than 3 years but I think you get the drift.
https://offerup.co/VYywHy3X6tb
https://offerup.co/3j5BSvdY6tb
https://offerup.co/t3M1xEfY6tb

Respectfully, the original 4.6K is 6 years old. A "trade up" would be from the second most recent model to the newest model — meaning the 3 year old UMP G2 to the UMP 12K. And for the UMP G2, I've yet to see a legit sale under $4000.

That UMP 12K post is 99.9% sure to be a scam.

Definitely we have to watch out but not everything too good to be true is a scam. Some local folks can go check it out before buying. Nevertheless, I was just pointing out that those sale comes up every month. Sometimes it’s luck, but just do your due dilligence.

I like the AppleCare like offering that JB mentioned. If BMD only has that, I would definitely get on board. The only thing is when they offer such extended warranty, when does the effective date start? The date of the camera purchase or the date of the warranty purchase? However this was asked before and nothing came about of it.

In the end, it's just a kind of insurance.
IIRC, Apple demands you make the contract within 90 days of purchase.

+1 to extended warranty like Apple care or I would like to see something like Dji care refresh, that allow you to repair or replace tools with a small fee.

I think Blackmagic Design is great brand, if they found the right way to offer something ones of two solution like Apple or Dji they will find a larger market than today.

It’s ever matter of perception, in my working life I used near every brand (also Red and Arri) and I can tell you that I found some fault on every brand (with except of Blackmagic Design and Fuji) but that not mean I never use other brand and use only these two brand.

Too often people judge brand from forum or social where they can see often the problems (if my camera work fine, I not post it on social) and you can find problems on every brand.

Defect product or Immaturity on a product can be happened, amen, we go over.


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I would love to see blackmagic release a “pro” series of cameras that cost a little bit more, but offer better build/ better repairability. Imagine a “pocket 4K Pro” with an all metal body, separate easily replaceable circuit boards, and and an overall more “premium” build.

Usb C stopped working? Just order a relatively cheap new circuit board and replace the port. Screen cracked? Just order another one and replace it. This would not only make the cameras a much better investment, but would also give the local repair shops more business.

I don’t know about you guys, but I would totally be willing to pay more for a premium blackmagic camera.

I don’t know about you guys, but I would totally be willing to pay more for a premium blackmagic camera.

I think the problem is the premium would be a lot more. Would you pay three times the price of a 12k to be able to then pay to get some spare parts?

I think my BMD friends would say just buy two bodies.

JB

I think my BMD friends would say just buy two bodies.

+1 to this. A second camera already in hand is more useful insurance when shooting than the promise that a broken/malfunctioning one will be fixed.

Anyways...there's still no BMD announcement of any kind., strange

I think my BMD friends would say just buy two bodies.

+1 to this. A second camera already in hand is more useful insurance when shooting than the promise that a broken/malfunctioning one will be fixed.

That's exactly what was suggested to early adopters of Red, when they were still cheap compared to any competitors – and quite unreliable.

I think my BMD friends would say just buy two bodies.

+1 to this. A second camera already in hand is more useful insurance when shooting than the promise that a broken/malfunctioning one will be fixed.

That's exactly what was suggested to early adopters of Red, when they were still cheap compared to any competitors – and quite unreliable.

REDs were way way more unreliable when they launched compared to any BMD camera.

Any half decent production always carries spare cameras no matter what brand.

A typical TV series like I shoot will have three bodies in use and the rental package will usually include a spare fourth body that sits in the truck “just in case”.

Sometimes you need a forth body and the rental company gets an extra day for the rental.

It’s just how it is. Sometimes it’s the camera. Sometimes someone drops something. Anything can happen.

JB

I think the problem is the premium would be a lot more. Would you pay three times the price of a 12k to be able to then pay to get some spare parts?

I think my BMD friends would say just buy two bodies.

JB

Totally with JB on this.

I don’t know why people keep on saying that BMD cameras are unreliable. Knock on wood, I have not encountered a failure while filming with the BMD cameras. If there’s anyone time it failed, I recall it was operator error. With that said, I ALWAYS and am emphasizing ALWAYS, prep my camera before shoot, check everything and test everything, and use cables and consumables that I tested to be working, and that the camera setting suits the media I am using. For example, if I know the media I am using is a CFast 2 with tested sequential writes can do 450Mb/s and it can handle 3:1 4K DCI BRAW, I will treat that drive as a 350Mb/s and shoot at most 5:1 4K DCI BRAW or even 4K Prores 422. This gives me a safety margin and prevents me from drop frames or drive issues. I will NEVER try to push the limits of the drive, the cables, etc. That my friends has kept me from experiencing a camera from unreliability. The last but not least important thing is to treat the camera with care. I don’t abuse my cameras and lenses. I know some set just rough house their equipments. Not mine. If someone rough house my equipment they’ll get a yelling and a kick out of the set. Gladly, that has never happened to date. I respect my crew and they respect me and my equipments.

Agreed in regards to production. Ive never been on a television production where they don't have at least one spare camera body.

That being said, over the last decade of shooting for TV, only RED and BM tend to give random errors/stop functioning as they should mid shoot. Arris, Sony, once in a blue moon have giving us a corrupt card but have personally yet to have one fail on me.

Its just how it is. BM make great cameras but just like RED you have to get a good one and except that there will be hiccups. Ive been lucky with mine, they're always solid for years and then I'll get the usual little bugs (sometimes the record button won't activate to stop so lose that clip, sometime the screen glitches etc, weird pre amp noise)

Agreed in regards to production. Ive never been on a television production where they don't have at least one spare camera body.

That being said, over the last decade of shooting for TV, only RED and BM tend to give random errors/stop functioning as they should mid shoot. Arris, Sony, once in a blue moon have giving us a corrupt card but have personally yet to have one fail on me.

Its just how it is. BM make great cameras but just like RED you have to get a good one and except that there will be hiccups. Ive been lucky with mine, they're always solid for years and then I'll get the usual little bugs (sometimes the record button won't activate to stop so lose that clip, sometime the screen glitches etc, weird pre amp noise)

I’ve had Arris crap out. Multiple times. As recently as 2022. In fact I can say I’ve never lost a shot shooting on Blackmagic. But I have with Arri, Sony and Red.

For every one of these individual anecdotes there’s someone that had a different experience.

99% of the time when my crew has a “problem” with the BMD camera on set it’s because they don’t know how to use it.

JB

I just want a 4k with updated sensor.
Box style form factor.

It wouldn’t shock me if Blackmagic just stuck with the 6K Pro for a very long time.

Interestingly, my dealer, who sells a lot of BM gear, told me that the BMPCC4k is still the top seller in the line.

All the more reason why BMD should release a P4K Pro!

As I want a P4K, but with built in NDs.

It wouldn’t shock me if Blackmagic just stuck with the 6K Pro for a very long time.

Interestingly, my dealer, who sells a lot of BM gear, told me that the BMPCC4k is still the top seller in the line.

All the more reason why BMD should release a P4K Pro!

As I want a P4K, but with built in NDs.

I can add an ND myself.
I can't add an updated sensor.

I'm going to really start thinking about the ZCAM S6 mft mount version, so I can continue using my Voigtlander lenses.
Will need the BM video assist though, so I can record braw

Why would it make good business sense for BMD to buy old cameras?
JB

Use old cameras for spare parts to provide service support?

With the talk of a new Pocket 4K I would like to reiterate my thought of instead doing a Pocket super16 6K using a reduced version of the new RGBW sensor. (maybe including some lower res formats.) Also keeping a camera mount that would accommodate most lenses such as MFT (which can adapt to PL, EF, B4 and F.)

Internal NDs? - maybe not, keeping price down and avoiding issues.

Tilt screen? - maybe so, but also adding a NVME M.2 slot behind it (that would increase price but would allow the higher bit rates.)... or maybe not, but improving the USB to a 10Gb/s and in strength with a lock.

new media upgrade would be needed for higher bit rates - expecting at least 6K 120fps and 4K 240fps like the sensor does now... or better. (redo the existing slots, add M.2, or improve USB.)

Keep the gyro, RGB histogram and other stuff. No need for auto anything... keep it manual but record lens metadata and set EF aperture.

For me battery is no issue as I cable to a brick clipped onto my belt.

Why would it make good business sense for BMD to buy old cameras?
JB

Use old cameras for spare parts to provide service support?

That’s not good business. That would cost money.

JB

With the talk of a new Pocket 4K I would like to reiterate my thought of instead doing a Pocket super16 6K using a reduced version of the new RGBW sensor. (maybe including some lower res formats.) Also keeping a camera mount that would accommodate most lenses such as MFT (which can adapt to PL, EF, B4 and F.)

Internal NDs? - maybe not, keeping price down and avoiding issues.

Tilt screen? - maybe so, but also adding a NVME M.2 slot behind it (that would increase price but would allow the higher bit rates.)... or maybe not, but improving the USB to a 10Gb/s and in strength with a lock.

new media upgrade would be needed for higher bit rates - expecting at least 6K 120fps and 4K 240fps like the sensor does now... or better. (redo the existing slots, add M.2, or improve USB.)

Keep the gyro, RGB histogram and other stuff. No need for auto anything... keep it manual but record lens metadata and set EF aperture.

For me battery is no issue as I cable to a brick clipped onto my belt.

Agreed. Only I'd keep the internal NDs. Running and gunning with a VND is not the best solution and stopping to screw in or drop in an ND means often losing a critical moment.

I’ve had Arris crap out. Multiple times. As recently as 2022. In fact I can say I’ve never lost a shot shooting on Blackmagic. But I have with Arri, Sony and Red.

For every one of these individual anecdotes there’s someone that had a different experience.

99% of the time when my crew has a “problem” with the BMD camera on set it’s because they don’t know how to use it.

JB

I've most recently had "problem" with the Pocket 6K Pro and the AngelBird 1 TB Card. The camera ends up freezing and the media will stop recording. I"m investigating whether it's all the card or if it is due to the latest7.9 firmware updates. But I think it's the card.

Either way, I have lost a shot now in my tests of determining which is the culprit. Before it was that I'd get the clip up to the point of freeze, but I lost a 30-second to 45-second tests shot the other day.

I had created this thread to cover this particular issue so that others may learn how to fix it: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=169008

Today was the first day of the Kickstarter campaign for the Zacuto Smart Z-Finder which offers the potential of making reasonably steady handheld shots on the iPhone.

They have three versions: the $299 viewfinder, the Directors viewfinder with handle, and the Cinematographers viewfinder with additional chest support and small flag. The Cinematographers version was going quickly as most orders preferred that at $465. Only the first 50 people receive a 40% discount. I ended up being #44. Ships February 2023.

Not a new camera, but it’s one solution to assist in the practical use of the iPhone 14 Pro to shoot short ProRes clips as Camera C. Fair bit of money to add another camera option with a high risk that it may not be good enough. Interesting that DaVinci Resolve is coming to the iPad; perhaps it’ll also end up on the iPhone someday.

Got an interesting Blackmagic Announcement yesterday without Blackmagic announcing it themselves. DaVinci Resolve for iPad. Announced via Apple's new iPad Pro Announcement. And, yet, radio silence from BMD on this new product. But, could there be some Blackmagic Camera to Cloud tools coming soon that works with this DaVinci for iPad?

Maybe that's why the Cloud is still in beta?

Why would it make good business sense for BMD to buy old cameras?
JB

Use old cameras for spare parts to provide service support?

That’s not good business. That would cost money.

JB

If you lose customers because support is not there due to lack of spare parts you lose money and not good for business. My BMPCC OG screen accidentally cracked the other day, would be happy to pay to have BMD replace the screen but guess what, no parts. Instead of a win win we now have a lose lose situation.

Everybody is in a lose-lose situation with broken supply chains.
Arri can't satisfy the demand for the new Alexa 35, even at that price point.

So, BlackmagicRAW support on the iPad Pro DaVinci Resolve for iPad is confirmed.

Who hear thinks Blackmagic has a new camera hidden up their sleeve to coincide with the upcoming iPad Resolve Announcement?


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Looks like I gotta move on.
Love my BMPCC 4k . But I need a higher resolution camera I can use my Voigtlander Leica m lenses on.

ZCAM here I come.

Will braw only be supported on this particular Ipad"

Ricardo Marty

I think Apple is the problem with using an iPad as a live monitor.

Likely too latency.

Streaming to it maybe.

BMD make a lot of control surfaces for Resolve. It’s logical that they would make existing surfaces work and/or make ipad specific ones….

Amazing to me is the same pricing model. No subscription. No one really talks about the fact that if you bought Resolve v8 in 2011 you haven’t paid anything for more than ten years and you’re still able to use the most current version.

JB

[quote=

Amazing to me is the same pricing model. No subscription. No one really talks about the fact that if you bought Resolve v8 in 2011 you haven’t paid anything for more than ten years and you’re still able to use the most current version.

JB[/quote]


I almost spent 1k to buy it a couple of months before it went to 295.


Ricardo Marty

I almost spent 1k to buy it a couple of months before it went to 295.


Ricardo Marty

Someone would have spent 30k before it dropped to 1K….

And what would a subscription have cost you for eleven years?

JB

… Does the new iPads have fast USB C?

Yes, USB4 and Thunderbolt3 both at 40Gbps as well as 6K DisplayPort support. I want to wait until the iPad has at least two such data connectors.

iPad works nicely as second display for Mac, maybe BMD should start using M1 on the cameras

Yeah but in only works THROUGH the Mac OS. Not direct.

JB

Did you guys saw the last RED update ?
They are tinkering with Autofocus / Tracking in Phase....
Autofocus... with R3D !

As a Commercial DP / Sport event camera op (sport competition beautyshots / slow mo) and Documentary shooters.... It's super interesting.

While a raptor is a difficult pills to swallow in terms of price and ergonomy (storage & no internal NDs) the market is flooded with Sony FX3 / FX6. While the IQ on those is really good, it doesn't have the depth of a blackmagic camera, nor a Red.

And now you adds the possibility to send proxies over network... just after you pressed the button "record" a second times.

The industry is moving, I'm really really curious to see what Blackmagic will respond.

I really hope they will offer a higher end camera that check all check those boxes and will compete with RED.


Mirrorless mount
FF
6400iso usable.
More NDs
High Frame Rates and / or sport mode. (reduce DR for increased framerates)
LOW Frame Rates : slow shutters in video, timelapses.
Light Proxy to cloud connectivity
Autofocus (it's a tough request)
Gimbal friendly (Raptorish size).

AF might be the toughest and let's wait and see what Red will pull off.
I'm sure that years of research into AI were needed for the current level of autofocus by Canon, Sony (or Nikon to some degree).

iPad works nicely as second display for Mac, maybe BMD should start using M1 on the cameras

Yeah but in only works THROUGH the Mac OS. Not direct.

JB

[/quote]


This product qill let the pf cameras use a phone or Ipad as monitors.

Ricardo Marty

AF might be the toughest and let's wait and see what Red will pull off.
I'm sure that years of research into AI were needed for the current level of autofocus by Canon, Sony (or Nikon to some degree).

I think you are totaly right, double sensor for autofocus and lots lots of R&D

I could pass on if it could somehowe communicate properly with a DJI Lidar 2 which I have yet to try out but seems to be a descent piece of equipement for gimbal work.

We may even see solutions based on an iPhone with LIDAR.
There is one already, but IMHO still at the ‘nice try’ level.

We may even see solutions based on an iPhone with LIDAR.
There is one already, but IMHO still at the ‘nice try’ level.

Did you try it out ?
I'm very curious, but yeah, seems to be that for a tracking shot nothing will beat a good AC, or an AI trained to follow a patern.

I find it hard to find any real world exemple at 24 or 25fps of the Lidar II.

We may even see solutions based on an iPhone with LIDAR.
There is one already, but IMHO still at the ‘nice try’ level.

Did you try it out ?

That Focus Puller app is decent for remote focus, but the current Apple LIDAR doesn't have the resolution for difficult situations and the app doesn't track (yet?). The latter should be possible, since Zhiyun gimbals can be controlled for tracking with an iPhone.

Of course, what Kim wrote applies too.