Red is back on the litigation warpath

You must have such a sad life.

Uncalled for. Do better.

What else do you say about a post that made three points, where all three were personal attacks.

[CaptainHook]

Keep it civil please. Back on topic.

One more off topic since CaptainHook chimed in, his early Blackmagic Camera LUTs, before he joined BMD, are some of the best ever imo, I used them for years with fantastic results.

Errr you know he’s designing the “look” that comes out of the cameras now? Gen 5 is Hook

JB

I do. I did like the old ones better though in combination with the original Pocket. Personal taste.

I directed this narrative commercial in 2017 and so didn't shoot it myself and the camera operator underexposed everything by 2 stops (on my original BMPCC). This is basically nothing but correcting exposure and tint while applying one of Hooks original LUTs. Remember, 2 stops underexposed (except the EXT shots)!



Personally I just loved the combination of his LUT and the OG Pocket.

[CaptainHook]

Thanks, the original LUT before I joined BMD was more a finished "look", where Gen 4/5 is far more about creating a decent neutral starting point. So, very different goals.

Makes sense and great work!

I do. I did like the old ones better though in combination with the original Pocket. Personal taste.

I directed this narrative commercial in 2017 and so didn't shoot it myself and the camera operator underexposed everything by 2 stops (on my original BMPCC). This is basically nothing but correcting exposure and tint while applying one of Hooks original LUTs. Remember, 2 stops underexposed (except the EXT shots)!



Personally I just loved the combination of his LUT and the OG Pocket.

Dang, that looks great!
I was looking back at some older Gen3 and Gen4 Ursa Mini footage I shot over the years and they still look great. I mean, I’d totally use them now, if I needed.
I think Gen5 has way more latitude with color, but image quality and coloring was the reason I transitioned from Magic Lantern 5Dmk3 to BMD cameras. Those older color science platforms still look good!

Dang, that looks great!

2 stops underexposed accidentally - no noise reduction, just Hook's LUT, raising exposure and tint correction.

Those older color science platforms still look good!

All of BMD's color generations and cams have been great but there's something about the BMCC and BMPCC that still rubs me the right way. Anyways, looks like RED and Nikon settled

Errr you know he’s designing the “look” that comes out of the cameras now? Gen 5 is Hook

JB

Did not know that. Great work Hook! Really enjoying what Gen 5 does.

Even Gen 3 that I shoot on the URSA Mini 4.6K as my A camera produces very pleasing images in most situations.

Thanks, the original LUT before I joined BMD was more a finished "look", where Gen 4/5 is far more about creating a decent neutral starting point. So, very different goals.

Do you have one for Gen 5?

I do. I did like the old ones better though in combination with the original Pocket. Personal taste.

I directed this narrative commercial in 2017 and so didn't shoot it myself and the camera operator underexposed everything by 2 stops (on my original BMPCC). This is basically nothing but correcting exposure and tint while applying one of Hooks original LUTs. Remember, 2 stops underexposed (except the EXT shots)!



Personally I just loved the combination of his LUT and the OG Pocket.

That looks great. This was the original Pocket?

This was the original Pocket?

Yes, with Speedbooster. I always hoped they'd make a 4K version of that cam/sensor :/

Thanks, the original LUT before I joined BMD was more a finished "look", where Gen 4/5 is far more about creating a decent neutral starting point. So, very different goals.

Do you have one for Gen 5?

Actually, that would be awesome! More of a look LUT, like some of the pre 2014 ones.

This was the original Pocket?

Yes, with Speedbooster. I always hoped they'd make a 4K version of that cam/sensor :/

Thats called the Ursa 4.6K. Both Fairchild sensors.

Very different body.

For what it's worth Jarred was on a live stream yesterday and showed an updated version of the Komodo X camera. Some of the things confirmed, no internal ND. External END. Improved audio hardware. slightly bigger body with slightly larger screen. Higher frame rates.

Release has got to be within a week or two based on last nights stream.

For what it's worth Jarred was on a live stream yesterday and showed an updated version of the Komodo X camera. Some of the things confirmed, no internal ND. External END. Improved audio hardware. slightly bigger body with slightly larger screen. Higher frame rates.

Release has got to be within a week or two based on last nights stream.

It was interesting to hear. Though, if it is ~$12,000 I wonder if that will alienate some of the potential buyers? With the BMD cameras being so competitively priced + the image quality, I’m curious how many current RED Komodo users will upgrade or wait on the next line from BMD…

I'll wait for the next line of BMD cameras. The Komodo X sounds interesting, but marginal improvement. At least they're fixing the terrible screen on the Komodo as that was a complaint I had back in 2020/2021 when I first play with the Komodo. As far as a camera that small I don't care that much about better audio recording as I'd rather just get timecode to it and record audio externally and timecode sync the audio mixer and camera.

The interesting thing was hearing how RED is working on an EVF, but isn't sure it will be ready for CineGear. This makes me really think about what Blackmagic is cooking up. They have been marginally updating existing gear using body builds they already have. Potentially BMD is working on some new bodies. When we see them is all based on when they are ready.

I also played with the Ronin 4D this last week. It's cool. Some really neat features. The Wireless Video and LiDAR is incredible. But I don't think the camera is fully ready for primetime. Nor do I think that the Ronin 4D will be my first choice as an A-Cam. It's a niche camera, and I would only use it for the specialty shots that require a camera that does what it does. But not going to be the main camera for projects.

Here is the condensed information

This was the original Pocket?

Yes, with Speedbooster. I always hoped they'd make a 4K version of that cam/sensor :/

Thats called the Ursa 4.6K. Both Fairchild sensors.

That's not the same camera.
They made a 4k version of the second Pocket camera. The Blackmagic Pocket 2.5k. The 4k version was the Production 4k & the Ursa 4k.

It's all massively out of topic.

That's not the same camera.
They made a 4k version of the second Pocket camera. The Blackmagic Pocket 2.5k. The 4k version was the Production 4k & the Ursa 4k.

There's no such thing as a Pocket 2.5K. Also all the other cameras have different sensors.

The only cameras with Fairchild sensors were the OG Pocket 1080p, 2.5K Cinema Camera and Ursa Mini 4.6K-G1-G2.

It's all massively out of topic.

Yea, RED needs to sue someone ASAP! Who's left?

I think Panasonic should implement some compressed raw and be next in line, just so they too can settle for peanuts. Or how about Panny implementing BRAW without telling BMD? Then RED might even sue both!

That's not the same camera.
They made a 4k version of the second Pocket camera. The Blackmagic Pocket 2.5k. The 4k version was the Production 4k & the Ursa 4k.

There's no such thing as a Pocket 2.5K. Also all the other cameras have different sensors.

The only cameras with Fairchild sensors were the OG Pocket 1080p, 2.5K Cinema Camera and Ursa Mini 4.6K-G1-G2.

.....the Micro Cinema, and the original HD Studio also used versions of the Fairchild CIS1910A sensor.

Good Luck

It's all massively out of topic.

Yea, RED needs to sue someone ASAP! Who's left?

I think Panasonic should implement some compressed raw and be next in line, just so they too can settle for peanuts. Or how about Panny implementing BRAW without telling BMD? Then RED might even sue both!

There is a rumor that next is RED Cross

That's not the same camera.
They made a 4k version of the second Pocket camera. The Blackmagic Pocket 2.5k. The 4k version was the Production 4k & the Ursa 4k.

There's no such thing as a Pocket 2.5K. Also all the other cameras have different sensors.

The only cameras with Fairchild sensors were the OG Pocket 1080p, 2.5K Cinema Camera and Ursa Mini 4.6K-G1-G2.

.....the Micro Cinema, and the original HD Studio also used versions of the Fairchild CIS1910A sensor.

Good Luck

Correct. Micro was the one with 60fps too. Always slipped my mind Micro existed.

That's not the same camera.
They made a 4k version of the second Pocket camera. The Blackmagic Pocket 2.5k. The 4k version was the Production 4k & the Ursa 4k.

There's no such thing as a Pocket 2.5K. Also all the other cameras have different sensors.

The only cameras with Fairchild sensors were the OG Pocket 1080p, 2.5K Cinema Camera and Ursa Mini 4.6K-G1-G2.

.....the Micro Cinema, and the original HD Studio also used versions of the Fairchild CIS1910A sensor.

Good Luck

Apparently:

Fairchild manufactured the sensor of the following cameras:

the original cinema cam

the original pocket cam

the micro cinema cam

the ursa mini 4.6k

the original ursa broadcast

the ursa mini 4.6k pro

the ursa mini pro G2

CMOSIS manufactured the sensor of the following cameras:

[*]the original ursa

[*]the production 4k

[*]the ursa mini 4k

Sony has made the following:

[*]pocket 4k (& and those new mft broadcast cams)

[*]pocket 6k (& pro/ursa broadcast g2)

Mostly right. The Ursa Broadcast G1 used the Onsemi AR1011HS, same chip as the 4k Studio and Micro 4k.

Good Luck

Nikon have just announced the Z8 which has N-Raw and ProRes Raw so quite the coincidence (not) that the court case was dropped just beforehand. Whatever happened is anybody's guess but the winner of this round is surely the Nikon user who want to shoot raw in-camera.

Yep, it's definitely not a coincidence.

These posts are rather humorous to me because people take sides and stand their ground like these are the last breaths of a company fighting for freedom, on either side. This is just business folks. This happens every single day. Nikon was never going to win the case. They ultimately knew it. They hoped they could win and when their lawyers finally told them how much it was going to cost to try, they decided to do what many others have done… Sign the license agreement with RED and enable the IP on their devices because, its cheaper in the long run and they get it, now.

After that whole thing, do you think Nikon is mad at RED? DJI? _______? Of course not. Its just business. Apple’s not even mad….. and the next one to license.………….if you follow the industry trend, might blow some people’s minds..

Who wouldn’t want compressed RAW in their camera? With current compression techniques, there is no real negative. You might think you know who doesn’t need/want it…. But the reality is likely going to shock you.

And where is the proof for it?
What Nikon have gained going this way instead of signing deal first hand?

Who else signed agreement with RED, except Atomos?

Canon?

Canon?

Canon still do RAW?
Also, RED now have a Canon mount which helps Canon.

We don't know they signed an agreement do we ? My understanding was the case was dropped. IF there was an agreement we do not know what it contains. Could be nothing.

We don't know they signed an agreement do we ? My understanding was the case was dropped. IF there was an agreement we do not know what it contains. Could be nothing.

You mean "I do not know" do not assume what others do or don't know.

Canon?

That's probably it. Also possibly Canon case was based on a "exchange" where both sides gained something.

These posts are rather humorous to me because people take sides and stand their ground like these are the last breaths of a company fighting for freedom, on either side. This is just business folks. This happens every single day. Nikon was never going to win the case. They ultimately knew it. They hoped they could win and when their lawyers finally told them how much it was going to cost to try, they decided to do what many others have done… Sign the license agreement with RED and enable the IP on their devices because, its cheaper in the long run and they get it, now.

After that whole thing, do you think Nikon is mad at RED? DJI? _______? Of course not. Its just business. Apple’s not even mad….. and the next one to license.………….if you follow the industry trend, might blow some people’s minds..

Who wouldn’t want compressed RAW in their camera? With current compression techniques, there is no real negative. You might think you know who doesn’t need/want it…. But the reality is likely going to shock you.

Nikon got what they wanted: RAW.

We don't know they signed an agreement do we ? My understanding was the case was dropped. IF there was an agreement we do not know what it contains. Could be nothing.

You mean "I do not know" do not assume what others do or don't know.

Correct I do not know. Do you ? I saw nothing that said they signed an agreement.

We don't know they signed an agreement do we ? My understanding was the case was dropped. IF there was an agreement we do not know what it contains. Could be nothing.

You mean "I do not know" do not assume what others do or don't know.

Correct I do not know. Do you ? I saw nothing that said they signed an agreement.

As there will be NDAs anyone who does know can't say. At least not directly.
As it happens, I don't know anything about the Nikon case that isn't public.

How do we know that Blackmagic has signed license agreements with Apple or MPEG LA? Further, what proof do we have that Blackmagic cameras are actually manufactured and not willed into existence by Grant and his enchanted conch?

Like it or not Red owns compressed raw, Apple knows it, Canon knows it, Atomos knows it, Kinefinity knows it, as does Blackmagic. The only folks that don’t seem to understand this are a ragtag band of internet freedom fighters.

Good Luck

[quote="Howard Roll"Like it or not Red owns compressed raw, Apple knows it, Canon knows it, Atomos knows it, Kinefinity knows it, as does Blackmagic. The only folks that don’t seem to understand this are a ragtag band of internet freedom fighters. [/quote]

You have no idea what is in the agreements between Red and the others.
You have no idea if Red owns compressed RAW.
That is the way quite a few companies want to keep it, or "everyone" would be at it.

IF Nikon, Canon, etc come to a private out-of-court agreement, then many assume that they are paying a licence for the compressed RAW.
It stops others doing it. IF the others knew RED had no case, then it is open season, and not just Red but Nikon and Canon lose their commercial advantage. This sort of thing is not uncommon.

You have no idea what is in the agreements between Red and the others.

Never claimed to, but there are agreements, be they cash, trade, or favors who can say?

You have no idea if Red owns compressed RAW.

According to the US Patent Office they do. Ownership in a universal/spiritual sense is far too open to interpretation.

Good Luck

imo, the patent is bs, like far to many other patents.

Since i don't feel like writing a thesis!

You have no idea what is in the agreements between Red and the others.

Never claimed to, but there are agreements, be they cash, trade, or favors who can say?

Not you. And you have no idea what is in those agreements.

You have no idea if Red owns compressed RAW.

According to the US Patent Office they do. Ownership in a universal/spiritual sense is far too open to interpretation.

Well, the US patent office only hold sway in one country and is held in the same regard as the N. Korean and Iranian Patent offices
It is in REDs interests to come to an out-of-court agreement to keep the myth of that patent alive.
It is also in the interests of Nikon, BM, Canon etc as well so others don't start doing RAW as well.

imo, the patent is bs, like far to many other patens.

Since i don't feel like writing a thesis!

Your opinion is irrelevant though

Because as Howard says, RED have very effectively defended their IP over many years and many attempts to directly challenge it.

Those that are successful have done so by coming to terms or by going around it.

JB

It is in REDs interests to come to an out-of-court agreement to keep the myth of that patent alive.
It is also in the interests of Nikon, BM, Canon etc as well so others don't start doing RAW as well.

This is just wishful thinking.

JB

Those that are successful have done so by coming to terms or by going around it.

I think one day, one of the larger companies is going to decide to crush them instead of go around them!