Blackmagic Forum

I am shooting with a UMP 4.6K G2 and the BMPCC 6K in ProRes. While the BM6K is Gen 5 from the camera, the G2 is not (only Gen 4) as we all know. I read somewhere recently that there's a way to select Gen 5 for use with the UMP G2 so it automatically converts from Gen 4 to Gen 5 without having to manually change it every time. I think it was from Tim B but no sure. Anyway, if this is possible, how does one do it? Thanks! I'm assuming that he is talking about Prores and not BRAW coz I know that I can do BRAW Gen 4 in Cam and convert to Gen 5 in DVR. I'm interested in Prores while Gen 5 is not on G2.

Ellory Yu wrote:I am shooting with a UMP 4.6K G2 and the BMPCC 6K in ProRes. While the BM6K is Gen 5 from the camera, the G2 is not (only Gen 4) as we all know. I read somewhere recently that there's a way to select Gen 5 for use with the UMP G2 so it automatically converts from Gen 4 to Gen 5 without having to manually change it every time. I think it was from Tim B but no sure. Anyway, if this is possible, how does one do it? Thanks! I'm assuming that he is talking about Prores and not BRAW coz I know that I can do BRAW Gen 4 in Cam and convert to Gen 5 in DVR. I'm interested in Prores while Gen 5 is not on G2.

Using Resolve Color Management you can get the UMPG2 ProRes closer to Gen 5 from the Pocket 6K. You still have to do some color correction in Resolve. Hook did share a LUT a while back that is supposed to get Gen 4 closer to Gen 5 Extended Video if I remember right.

In Resolve I set my Default for Blackmagic RAW in the RAW Settings of Project Settings to automatically switch Gen 4 to Gen 5. The Default Color Science is Gen 5 in those settings. Since I made that my default I don't have to manually go change it every time I start a new project in Resolve. But this is only a solve for BRAW.

ProRes you still have to go through RCM and selecting the input color science and gamma so that RCM can bring it into the DaVinci Wide Color Gamut. The ProRes will still need some correction work to match closer still even with RCM.

You could use CineMatch to convert the 4.6K G2 to Pocket 6K Gen 5.

timbutt2 wrote:ProRes you still have to go through RCM and selecting the input color science and gamma so that RCM can bring it into the DaVinci Wide Color Gamut. The ProRes will still need some correction work to match closer still even with RCM.

Hey Tim, thanks for the info. That's what I thought that with ProRes, it's not as straight forward as BRAW to automate and that all this is done on DVR.

I am trying to look for Hook's Gen4 to Gen5 LUT for the UMP. Does anyone have the link to it?

In a regular YRGB “non-color managed” is there a reason not to use a CST from Gen 4 to Gen 5?

Then just cut and paste across clips.

ShaheedMalik wrote:You could use CineMatch to convert the 4.6K G2 to Pocket 6K Gen 5.

you do not need cinematch in resolve

Mark Foster wrote:

ShaheedMalik wrote:You could use CineMatch to convert the 4.6K G2 to Pocket 6K Gen 5.

you do not need cinematch in resolve

I agree. What I was hoping for would be a firmware upgrade that will give the UMP G2 Gen5 capabilities for Prores. Meanwhile, a gen 5 display LUT for the UMP will be nice.

Ellory Yu wrote:I am trying to look for Hook's Gen4 to Gen5 LUT for the UMP. Does anyone have the link to it?

CaptainHook wrote:Yes, prob the easiest thing to do is use LUTs for monitoring on camera designed to go from Gen 4 BMD Film to Gen 5 Ext Video / Video if you plan to decode as Gen 5 in Resolve and use Ext Vid / Video.

You can make them in Resolve by using the CST plugin, but I have made a couple doing that and attached them to this post.

Source: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=156189

Thanks Tim!

Anyone heard anything yet on Gen 5 fur UMP?

Ryan Earl wrote:In a regular YRGB “non-color managed” is there a reason not to use a CST from Gen 4 to Gen 5?

Then just cut and paste across clips.

You can setup that from project all braw should be decoded not like metadata but like project and setup gen5, I setup my resolve in this way to have all braw from pocket6k and ursa in gen5.


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carlomacchiavello wrote:You can setup that from project all braw should be decoded not like metadata but like project and setup gen5, I setup my resolve in this way to have all braw from pocket6k and ursa in gen5.


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Yes, I think most of us know that we can bring in BRAW from URSA 4.6K into resolve and set it up for gen5. But that is not the reason some of us are asking for a firmware upgrade on the UMP to have Gen 5 in camera. It is because some of us are required to shoot in Prores and we want to be able to do so with Gen 5 color science.

Ellory Yu wrote:

carlomacchiavello wrote:You can setup that from project all braw should be decoded not like metadata but like project and setup gen5, I setup my resolve in this way to have all braw from pocket6k and ursa in gen5.


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Yes, I think most of us know that we can bring in BRAW from URSA 4.6K into resolve and set it up for gen5. But that is not the reason some of us are asking for a firmware upgrade on the UMP to have Gen 5 in camera. It is because some of us are required to shoot in Prores and we want to be able to do so with Gen 5 color science.

I’m agree with you, me too I would like to see directly gen5 in ursa, if I should send movies to other or other NLE


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Mark Foster wrote:

ShaheedMalik wrote:You could use CineMatch to convert the 4.6K G2 to Pocket 6K Gen 5.

you do not need cinematch in resolve

Why you say?

ShaheedMalik wrote:

Mark Foster wrote:

ShaheedMalik wrote:You could use CineMatch to convert the 4.6K G2 to Pocket 6K Gen 5.

you do not need cinematch in resolve

Why you say?

Is not clear about why you say…
If you told about matching cameras is simpler with resolve, if you study color management (there is. A great video on tutorial section of Blackmagic website) you match directly cameras without big effort.
Obviously if you shoot correctly exposure, white balance and similar lenses between cameras.



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If direct to Prores is the goal, wouldn’t it be better to burn the G4-G5 (film to film) LUT in-camera? In Resolve the Prores is derived from compressed Braw data, in-camera it’s created from uncompressed Bayer data.

Good Luck

carlomacchiavello wrote:

ShaheedMalik wrote:

Mark Foster wrote:
you do not need cinematch in resolve

Why you say?

Is not clear about why you say…
If you told about matching cameras is simpler with resolve, if you study color management (there is. A great video on tutorial section of Blackmagic website) you match directly cameras without big effort.
Obviously if you shoot correctly exposure, white balance and similar lenses between cameras.



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So there isn't a reason for your answer. I asked why Resolve's method was superior.

Cinematch uses mapped camera sensor data profiles + color space transform to match one camera to another.

A regular Resolve CST doesn't do this.

Howard Roll wrote:If direct to ProRes is the goal, wouldn’t it be better to burn the G4-G5 (film to film) LUT in-camera? In Resolve the Prores is derived from compressed Braw data, in-camera it’s created from uncompressed Bayer data.

Good Luck

I can see your logic, however the gen 4 to 5 conversion via LUT is extrapolating a more restrictive gamma/gamut (gen4), into a larger gamma/gamut (gen 5) which is not ideal. Plus lut calculations are less accurate and destructive vs the lossless option of just changing the gen version in Resolve's raw panel for BRAW footage.

Additionally you can't burn lut's into ProRes on the URSA's.

It's a genuine pain-point to have gen4 ProRes on the URSA G2, a strange position considering it's still a high end currently sold model.

I completely agree with Mike about this.

Even if it was possible to burn the LUT in, BRAW compression is simply a spatial DCT type not a bit depth limiting or color subsampling type, so whether the compression happened before or after the LUT in the pipeline would likely have no visible difference in terms of the quality of the transformed result.

Ellory Yu wrote:

carlomacchiavello wrote:You can setup that from project all braw should be decoded not like metadata but like project and setup gen5, I setup my resolve in this way to have all braw from pocket6k and ursa in gen5.


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Yes, I think most of us know that we can bring in BRAW from URSA 4.6K into resolve and set it up for gen5. But that is not the reason some of us are asking for a firmware upgrade on the UMP to have Gen 5 in camera. It is because some of us are required to shoot in Prores and we want to be able to do so with Gen 5 color science.

This is it, so many are required to shoot in Prores for some clients for fast delivery, same day delivery often and no time for conversion so there is a real need to be able to do so with Gen 5 color science in Prores.

Johannes Jonsson wrote:

Ellory Yu wrote:

carlomacchiavello wrote:You can setup that from project all braw should be decoded not like metadata but like project and setup gen5, I setup my resolve in this way to have all braw from pocket6k and ursa in gen5.


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Yes, I think most of us know that we can bring in BRAW from URSA 4.6K into resolve and set it up for gen5. But that is not the reason some of us are asking for a firmware upgrade on the UMP to have Gen 5 in camera. It is because some of us are required to shoot in Prores and we want to be able to do so with Gen 5 color science.

This is it, so many are required to shoot in Prores for some clients for fast delivery, same day delivery often and no time for conversion so there is a real need to be able to do so with Gen 5 color science in Prores.

Crickets from BMD ever since this functionality have been asked for the UMP G2.


It’s very disappointing since I have a good cam in the G2 but in a multicam situation working with the P6K and P4K as “B/C” cam, I hardly can use the G2 as an “A” cam when filming in Prores for clients who requires Prores and a fast delivery.

Ellory Yu wrote:
Crickets from BMD ever since this functionality have been asked for the UMP G2.

Gen 4 for UM46K in ProRes?

VMFXBV wrote:

Ellory Yu wrote:
Crickets from BMD ever since this functionality have been asked for the UMP G2.

Gen 4 for UM46K in ProRes?

Not if you are doing a multicam shoot with a BMPCC 4K and/or 6K in Gen 5 and shooting in ProRes for fast delivery, usually the same day of shoot.

My G2 is just seating in the case for months mainly due to this issue.

Ellory Yu wrote:

VMFXBV wrote:

Ellory Yu wrote:
Crickets from BMD ever since this functionality have been asked for the UMP G2.

Gen 4 for UM46K in ProRes?

Not if you are doing a multicam shoot with a BMPCC 4K and/or 6K in Gen 5 and shooting in ProRes for fast delivery, usually the same day of shoot.

My G2 is just seating in the case for months mainly due to this issue.

I know, I'm asking for it . Nobody is thinking about us original UM46K owners...At least there's Gen4 in CinemaDNG...

I’ve given up hope. I’m moving on.


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