Backtracking Observations to the P6K from the U12K

The Pocket 6K is a great camera and I've had terrific results with it, as with the new firmware and gyro-stability. I've also at times thought the U12K might hold relatively few advantages over the P6K image which I have been working with a lot recently. However, going over the P6K footage it strikes me how markedly superior the U12K is treating the image. Firstly, the resolution is quite noticeable on an 8K display, but particularly also, the reduction in moire, shot noise and the improvement in DR are all visually apparent. It's just a superb image. The color purity is outstanding.

I also never appreciated how functionally well the U12K could be from a run and gun perspective. It's exceedingly stable from the shoulder hold with stabilized lens, even a long one like the EF 100-400L 4.5-5.6 IS II USM. The low light capability has not been disappointing. The P6K holds an advantage in the lowest lights with its dual ISO but the 12K native 800 ISO sensor has no loss of DR at 3200 EI setting and remains clean.

For wedding work, the P6K is still the A-cam for long form because of it's more reasonable data rates and Prores recording. The U12K is the better fit for B-roll which sounds like a knock, but it really isn't because B-roll are the glamour shots, sunset, slow motion, HFR.

Todays shoot are corporate interviews but they request lots of B-roll and the U12K is going to be the featured cam for stunning visuals.

i have also noticed a difference with the 12k.
It's incredible how well the 6k and the 12k look together, but when you really push the 12k, it looks so amazing.

I had to send my 12k back, but i have a question for you...
do you notice any DR difference with shooting 8k or 4k?

Hi Adam, I'm not sure if you mean compared to itself or the P6K? Compared to itself, I haven't noticed DR being any different in 8K although 4K seems to have less. But I have only shot 4K once with the U12K and that was by accident. 12K or 8K both seem to have a little bit more DR than the P6K, have a little bit more of everything except for low light; there the P6K is the clear winner. But, in all the low light scenarios that the U12K can manage normally, as in proper exposure for a gray card at 3200 EI, the 12K wins by having less noise. But if you don't have enough light to put a gray card at the IRE for middle gray and are thus having to underexpose the scene, the P6K will be significantly better.

Thanks Tom for posting, what compression options do you typically work with in 12K / 8K? Considering you have been viewing / rendering in 8K?

I’ve been using 12K 18:1 for most projects rendered to 4K for easy playback on my system and to save drive space.


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I feel like I should mention this, I generally avoid heaping praise on stuff that I own, but with the U12K priced now at only $5995, if it helps someone to decide in favor of the 12K over similarly priced products, be it Sony A1, FX3, FX6, FX9, Pana S1, Canon R5/C, C70, C300, Nikon Z9 or Komodo, I have done them a giant favor because the 12K has so much more to offer, lower rolling shutter, higher frame rates, more resolution, Gen 5 color, BRAW recording, internal ND, lens mount compatibility, Resolve Studio License, XLR inputs, timecode, to name a few. Nobody else has the unique sensor RWGWBW. It puts up impressive DR and low light too, outstanding color reproduction.

Thanks Tom for posting, what compression options do you typically work with in 12K / 8K? Considering you have been viewing / rendering in 8K?

I’ve been using 12K 18:1 for most projects rendered to 4K for easy playback on my system and to save drive space.


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Hi Ryan, I use Q5 almost exclusively on the U12K, for 12K60, 8K120. It might on the rarest occasion drop a frame on Q5 at 8K120, if it does, I'll drop the recording rate to 8:1 or 12:1 CBR. I don't think I've ever had to go to 18:1, perhaps I have in major windy leaves, trees, foliage. But I've also had it shoot 12K60 at Q3 without dropping a frame, so it is scene dependent but again for most things I shoot Q5 at any resolution or frame rate.

Dynamic Range:
UMP4.6K G2 15 stops, worse lowlight
UMP12K 14 stops, good low light
BMPCC6K 13+ stops, best lowlight
BMPCC4K 13 stops, better lowlight

Thanks Tom for posting, what compression options do you typically work with in 12K / 8K? Considering you have been viewing / rendering in 8K?

I’ve been using 12K 18:1 for most projects rendered to 4K for easy playback on my system and to save drive space.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Ryan, I use Q5 almost exclusively on the U12K, for 12K60, 8K120. It might on the rarest occasion drop a frame on Q5 at 8K120, if it does, I'll drop the recording rate to 8:1 or 12:1 CBR. I don't think I've ever had to go to 18:1, perhaps I have in major windy leaves, trees, foliage. But I've also had it shoot 12K60 at Q3 without dropping a frame, so it is scene dependent but again for most things I shoot Q5 at any resolution or frame rate.

What media do you use at this quality and frame rates?

What media do you use at this quality and frame rates?

https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-2TB-Extr ... C98&sr=8-4

I use it with the short USB-C cable it comes with and velcro it to the V-mount battery.

It's on the approved list.

When finished shooting, you can edit on the same drive. It's super fast. Archive project when finished to other media. Before you flame me, I backup the disk before editing on it for anything important.

Flames extinguished!

Dynamic Range:
UMP4.6K G2 15 stops, worse lowlight
UMP12K 14 stops, good low light
BMPCC6K 13+ stops, best lowlight
BMPCC4K 13 stops, better lowlight

Is there any proof that the BMPCC 6K has better lowlight performance in the higher ISO range than the BMPCC 4K?

On the Blackmagicdesign website there is no 13+ stops of dynamic range listed, it just states:

"The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K features a native sensor resolution of 4096 x 2160, while the 6K models have a native resolution of 6144 x 3456. Whether you’re shooting in bright sunlight or in almost no light at all, the 13 stops of dynamic range..."

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... nemacamera

What media do you use at this quality and frame rates?

https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-2TB-Extr ... C98&sr=8-4

I use it with the short USB-C cable it comes with and velcro it to the V-mount battery.

It's on the approved list.

When finished shooting, you can edit on the same drive. It's super fast. Archive project when finished to other media. Before you flame me, I backup the disk before editing on it for anything important.

Thanks, looks good. I wish these manufacturers of external high speed drives starts putting a 1/4-20 hole in their enclosures.

Is there any proof that the BMPCC 6K has better lowlight performance in the higher ISO range than the BMPCC 4K?

Not offering this as "proof" per se but on the Pocket series ISO latitude chart, BMD is showing the DR of the P6K to be about .3 to .4 higher than the P4K across all ISO/EI.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... nemacamera

Not offering this as "proof" per se but on the Pocket series ISO latitude chart, BMD is showing the DR of the P6K to be about .3 to .4 higher than the P4K across all ISO/EI.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... nemacamera

Thank you for pointing that ISO latitude chart out. Yes, at ISO 400, it shows a dynamic range of 13.1 for the BMPCC 4K, and 13.4 for the BMPCC 6K, a .3 stop advantage for the 6K. I assume that this is at a SNR = 1.

It's interesting that Blackmagic chose a video of the BMPCC 4K during a Super moon to show off the low light capabilities of the pocket cameras.

With the BMPCC 6K at 3200 ISO you have 5.6 stops above and 6.5 stops below, = 12.1 stops total.

At 25600 ISO you have 6.6 stops above and 3.7 stops below, = 10.3 stops total.

ISO Latitude Chart BMPCC6K 3200 ISO 12.1 stops

BMPCC6K3200ISO12_1stops.png (128.45 KiB) Viewed 1632 times

With the BMPCC 4K at 3200 ISO you have 5.1 stops above and 7.2 stops below, = 12.3 stops total, a .2 stop advantage.

At 25600 ISO you have 6.1 stops above and 4.6 stops below, = 10.7 stops total, a .4 stop advantage.

ISO Latitude Chart BMPCC4K 3200 ISO 12.3 stops

BMPCC4K3200ISO12_3stops.png (126.98 KiB) Viewed 1632 times

I assume that these figures were recorded while shooting in ProRes. If BRAW was used, then in all fairness the BMPCC 6K should have a better result than this, once temporal noise reduction in Resolve is used, plus if highlight recovery is enabled, the available dynamic range increases. I'd like to see the tests under these conditions.

The extra sensor area should improve the 6K's ability to shoot in low light scenarios, but the extra noise from smaller photosites works against it.

In Cined's tests, the dynamic range is about .5 stops lower in the higher range on the 6K series:

"Dynamic Range at full sensor readout, ISO400, 6K BRAW 25p
Using the full sensor readout at the maximum resolution of 6K (6144×3456) with BRAW 3:1 constant bitrate settings, ...a dynamic range of 11.8 stops at a signal to noise ratio of 2 is calculated (12.9 stops for SNR = 1).
...Dynamic Range at full sensor readout, ISO3200, 6K BRAW 25p
At ISO3200 the dynamic range drops quite significantly to 10.0 stops (SNR = 2)"

Dynamic Range Chart BMPCC6K ISO 3200 10 Stops of DR

BMPCC6KISO320010StopDR.png (799.9 KiB) Viewed 1632 times

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K Lab Test – Dynamic Range, Latitude, Rolling Shutter & More

https://www.cined.com/blackmagic-pocket ... tter-more/

Using the chart for a BMPCC 4K won't tell the whole story. The 4K has larger photosites for less noise than the 6K, and has a half stop more dynamic range in the upper ISO range:

"The result: 11.6 stops of dynamic range for a signal to noise ratio of 2 (12.7 stops for a signal to noise ratio of 1) at ISO 400 (10.5 and 11.8 stops for ISO3200), in ProRes 4K DCI 25p."

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K Hands-On Review

https://www.cined.com/blackmagic-pocket ... on-review/

I’ve been using 12K 18:1 for most projects rendered to 4K for easy playback on my system and to save drive space.

Maybe try the Q compression. It's often possible to get HIGHER compression (smaller files) with Q5, depending on the scene content.

Many think that 18:1 is the lowest, but in Q5 you can often get to 50:1 depending on what you're shooting...lower shot complexity means higher compression...

I shoot 12K / Q3 for most high end things if I'm intercutting with Arri RAW or ProRes 444.

12KQ3 is about the same data rate as Arri RAW...1TB is roughly 60 mins....

As used on....

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7203552/ (second season)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13984270/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15203646/

JB

12KQ3 is about the same data rate as Arri RAW...1TB is roughly 60 mins....

As used on....

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7203552/ (second season)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13984270/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15203646/

JB

John, 12KQ3 was used on The Morning Show Season 2? Or do you mean 12KQ3 equivalent bitrate was used with Arri on Season 2 of TMS?

John, 12KQ3 was used on The Morning Show Season 2? Or do you mean 12KQ3 equivalent bitrate was used with Arri on Season 2 of TMS?

On The Morning Show the main camera was a DXL2. We also had an early ST Komodo.

We also used on occasion the 12k for specific shots or sometimes in tight spaces (like scenes on private jets )

JB