Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

neckbone

  • Posts: 37
  • Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:55 pm
  • Real Name: Tomas Rigoni

Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostSat Jul 23, 2022 2:52 pm

Hi everyone,

in the last months it happened to me for 3 times to find dust on the sensor of my BMPCC4K. I mean directly on the sensor, not on the sensor glass. For 2 times I had to take the camera to an assistance service to clean the sensor before to use ti for a job.
A few days ago I found the dust for the third time. I tried to clean the glass surface with a cleaning kit but, as always, the problem is not on the glass, but below it. I always leave the camera in a closed bag, and I generally use it only once or twice a month.

How is it possible? Where does this dust come from? Is it a common problem?
Is there a safe way to clean the sensor by myself? :cry:
Offline
User avatar

carlomacchiavello

  • Posts: 2901
  • Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:04 pm
  • Location: italy

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostSat Jul 23, 2022 9:06 pm

Uhm it’s very strange if you not work in a place filled of dust. I did work on many place with every kind of dust and only rarely I found dust on sensor glass (never behind).
Lenses cam breath and suck dust from environment but you should be very unlucky to suck so often dust on sensor, especially behind glass. It’s so strange. Give us more infos about your work, what kind of environment and if you change often lenses.


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 25076
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostSun Jul 24, 2022 5:18 am

Is it definitely dust or could it be mold? Where do you live?
My disaster protection: export a .drp file to a physically separated storage regularly.

Studio 19.1.3
MacOS 13.7.4, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580 + eGPU
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM, MacOS 14.7.2
SE, USM G3
Offline

John Griffin

  • Posts: 1341
  • Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:18 pm

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostSun Jul 24, 2022 10:09 am

The space between the sensor cover and the sensor should be airtight but maybe something got in there during manufacturing. It's possible to remove the cover glass with basic tools and there are instructions to do this on Youtube for the Rawlite OLPF which I have done. I'd use a puff of air or a gel stick to remove any dust spots and not a fluid or wiping type cleaner.
Offline

dawnsen

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:41 pm
  • Real Name: Louis Olsen

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostSun Jul 24, 2022 9:49 pm

BMPCC4K specks 3.jpg
BMPCC4K specks 3.jpg (917.32 KiB) Viewed 3428 times


I think I've got the same problem with my BMPCC4K - it's definitely under the sensor glass. I'd be surprised if it's mould because I do monitor the humidity where I store my gear, and I don't really shoot in any extreme environments. The camera also basically lives with a SpeedBooster on it, which should reduce the chances of any external debris getting in.

The specks start to appear on the image somewhere around f7.0

This is the second time it's happened for me. The first time I sent it back for service and BlackMagic just replaced the entire camera. It looks like I'm going to have to send this one in again and rent a camera again while I wait for it to get fixed - not a cheap problem to have!
Last edited by dawnsen on Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

neckbone

  • Posts: 37
  • Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:55 pm
  • Real Name: Tomas Rigoni

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostMon Jul 25, 2022 7:38 am

I work in various kind of environment, in the last months places where I worked were definitely not full of dust (gardens, schools,...). I am persuaded that the problem appeared in the break period, between the last two jobs, because the shots I made after the first job where clean. After that, I left the camera in a camera backpack for weeks, maybe not in the cleanest room of the house, but the backpack was definitely closed.

John Griffin wrote:The space between the sensor cover and the sensor should be airtight but maybe something got in there during manufacturing. It's possible to remove the cover glass with basic tools and there are instructions to do this on Youtube for the Rawlite OLPF which I have done. I'd use a puff of air or a gel stick to remove any dust spots and not a fluid or wiping type cleaner.


Info about OLPF are very useful, I found this tutorial on YouTube and I think I'll try!

Offline

John Griffin

  • Posts: 1341
  • Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:18 pm

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostMon Jul 25, 2022 8:55 am

If the dust is under the cover glass the cause is not due to usage or the storage storage environment as it's sealed from the environment.
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 25076
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostMon Jul 25, 2022 9:13 am

Sorry if I insist, but if there was high humidity when the camera was packed up in a closed bag, it might still be mold.
Fungus likes it dark and humid.
My disaster protection: export a .drp file to a physically separated storage regularly.

Studio 19.1.3
MacOS 13.7.4, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580 + eGPU
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM, MacOS 14.7.2
SE, USM G3
Offline

John Griffin

  • Posts: 1341
  • Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:18 pm

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostMon Jul 25, 2022 9:41 am

Uli Plank wrote:Sorry if I insist, but if there was high humidity when the camera was packed up in a closed bag, it might still be mold.
Fungus likes it dark and humid.

The area between the sensor and cover glass 'should' be airtight.
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 25076
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostMon Jul 25, 2022 1:20 pm

If it has been serviced twice before, maybe it's not airtight any more.
My disaster protection: export a .drp file to a physically separated storage regularly.

Studio 19.1.3
MacOS 13.7.4, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580 + eGPU
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM, MacOS 14.7.2
SE, USM G3
Offline

neckbone

  • Posts: 37
  • Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:55 pm
  • Real Name: Tomas Rigoni

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostMon Jul 25, 2022 2:42 pm

This is the situation before and after cleaning the sensor glass surface:

Image
Offline

John Griffin

  • Posts: 1341
  • Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:18 pm

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostMon Jul 25, 2022 4:32 pm

What F stop are you seeing these spots at? On most sensors they will start to show at F8 and higher.
Offline

neckbone

  • Posts: 37
  • Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:55 pm
  • Real Name: Tomas Rigoni

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostWed Jul 27, 2022 7:21 am

John Griffin wrote:What F stop are you seeing these spots at? On most sensors they will start to show at F8 and higher.


I don't remember exactly, but it was certainly between f17 and f22
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 25076
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostWed Jul 27, 2022 7:37 am

I’d avoid such small f-stops. They’ll reduce sharpness due to diffraction.
My disaster protection: export a .drp file to a physically separated storage regularly.

Studio 19.1.3
MacOS 13.7.4, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580 + eGPU
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM, MacOS 14.7.2
SE, USM G3
Offline

neckbone

  • Posts: 37
  • Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:55 pm
  • Real Name: Tomas Rigoni

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostWed Jul 27, 2022 8:39 am

Ok, I tried to clean the internal surface of the glass and it's definitely worst then before. it's damn hard to clean it without leaving any traces. I'll take it to the assistance service :(

Uli Plank wrote:I’d avoid such small f-stops. They’ll reduce sharpness due to diffraction.


I can't avoid to use them when I'm shooting a wedding under the Sun of July
Offline
User avatar

Uli Plank

  • Posts: 25076
  • Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:48 am
  • Location: Germany and Indonesia

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostWed Jul 27, 2022 8:45 am

Get ND filters. They’ll also give you controlled focus instead of a smartphone look, where everything is in focus (depending on focal length).
My disaster protection: export a .drp file to a physically separated storage regularly.

Studio 19.1.3
MacOS 13.7.4, 2017 iMac, 32 GB, Radeon Pro 580 + eGPU
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM, MacOS 14.7.2
SE, USM G3
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 18118
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostWed Jul 27, 2022 3:14 pm

Look for screw-on IRND filters that attenuate infrared as well as the visible light spectrum.
Rick Lang
Offline

John Griffin

  • Posts: 1341
  • Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:18 pm

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostThu Jul 28, 2022 6:34 am

Any camera will show spots on the cover glass at those apertures- you are seeing microscopic particles. As others have said get some ND’s and don’t shoot above f5.6.
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 18118
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Dust on BMPCC4K sensor

PostThu Jul 28, 2022 3:41 pm

When folks come with years of still camera experience, it takes an adjustment to shoot motion with a cinema camera. The stills shooter likely is used to shooting f/8 through f/32 even though they’re not using a 8x10” view camera.

With the cinema camera and typically smaller sensors they need to adjust to shooting T2 through T5.6 ideally and the lenses are often designed to perform their best within a stop of T4 so you get a quality image without diffraction (and usually without discovering dust in your image.

Given the typically slow shutter used in cinema, quality IRND are recommended for most outdoor shoots, either screw-on circular form or rectangular form for a matte box that also helps control flares or veils of light in your image.
Rick Lang

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kristian Lam, mario1286, samueladammartin, Z.W. Amundson and 74 guests