Is BMPC4K Really Budget Freindly?

Just some late night shower thoughts, but i was thinking about the reality of if the BMPC4K is actually a good bang for your buck.
Hear me out.
When i was working with the camera on an interior film student set, one of the main issues was not having enough light. We were blasting the set with the cheap leds we had, but it just wasn't enough to get a good picture. (yes the camera settings were correct.)
Something i was thinking about, was comparing the costs of this camera vs, other cameras which have way better low light support and cost about 4000-6000.
Taking in the cost for Bright and quality lights, the time and money you would spend rigging out the camera each shoot, and the breakability of it (with no insurance) i am starting to question the actual cost effectiveness of the BMPC4K.
Especially if you do run and gun, i dont see the benifit of the BMPC4k at all, mostly because of the time you would spend rigging, and the time you would spend blasting the shot with lights. (it wouldn't make sense for a docu)

With all of these taken into consideration, it seems like a much more smart and cost effective solution to buy an Ursa 12k, or something like a sony Fx6. The extra 3000 or so, vs the amount of time the camera will last you (plus the better resolution/full frame) sound like a way better deal for me.

At the end of the day though, it depends on how much money you have, if your a beginner or not, and if you value your time when setting up cameras or having to pay to repair or replace the more fragile product.

I wanna hear your thoughts below!
Im a huge BM fanboy btw, just thinking from a professionals pov if its a good value, ofc for a beginner its a no brainer amazing value.

I am having a hard time imaging the PCC4K as a non-low-light camera…
Have been working professionally with it for almost 5 years, have shot in super dark situations like a night transport of a turbine for a hydroelectric power station. Never has the camera let me down.
On my second PCC4K I am using a Metabones Cine Speedbooster together with the Sigma 18-35 f/1.8
That combination is a true night vision device.

IMHO you should add more information about the student set, like which lenses and which lights have been used. Show some set footage and a sample clip of the problematic scenes. Otherwise it is hard to talk about that specific situation and assess it properly.

With the P4K at second native ISO of 3200, and decent lenses that go to f2.8 or even f1.4, you can shoot with available light and have a brighter image than you actually see live with your own eyes.

The problem must be the cheap lights, not the amount of light ?

BMD Pocket 4K is one of the best budget friendly cameras. (<- that's a period.)

Oh... I am crying so much that my Pocket 4K is so terrible in light, even with the brightest mid daytime sun... oh, what shall I do, oh woes me... oh... oh, I got a pinhole on it... only f175... and it barely works.

I've filmed with it in moonlight with a proper lens.

PS: I got a 12K too and a 4.6K (G1)... pocket 4K does more with less light than either of those. (yep, I tried pinholes on those as well.)

The 4K is better in low-light than both the 12K or the 4.6K G1. You must be doing something wrong when lighting.

Taking in the cost for Bright and quality lights, the time and money you would spend rigging out the camera each shoot, and the breakability of it (with no insurance) i am starting to question the actual cost effectiveness of the BMPC4K.

It's budget friendly and high quality. For under $2,000 you can have the camera, lens and recording media and just work with it.

I agree you need to provide a little more info. Are you exposing with a gray card? What ISO are you using? Once you expose for middle gray we'd see how many stops over or under you actually are at a particular ISO with a given setup.

I use a feelworld monitor on mine which provides a waveform for exposure setting and I get wonderful results from the 4k in low light. Very realistic color and very little noise. Attention to white balance goes a long way for me. I rarely go over 1200 ISO.

Alex, the camera is only a small fraction of the total value equation. And being such a small cost, it can distort the perception of all other production-ready costs. One easily can spend more on each of the other aspects of cinematography including the basic camera support, gimbals and steadicam-like support, motion support (dolly, jib, crane, slider), fully rigging the camera (large batteries, external monitors), mics, external recorders, prime lenses, zoom lenses, filters, lights, media, edit suite, grading monitor, and on and on.

The camera’s lowlight claims are more modest than some, but cinematic capabilities are at the forefront of determining its useful capabilities up to at least ISO 3200 for easy grading of relatively clean images with good 12bit BRAW or 10bit ProRes intra-frame HDR colour. Thankfully given you are blasting your set with lights, you don’t seriously think you would ever be able to use the see-in-the-dark images claimed by other manufacturers for theatrical distribution.

Some may conclude the resolution of the BMPCC4K is insufficient and I wouldn’t want to upscale it for 8K projection, but I’m sure it’s an ideal size for superb 2K/HD deliverables including widescreen which is still much in demand. In the right hands with care, you can deliver 4K but the new BMPCC6K G2 for a few hundred dollars more might be better suited to that. It’s not a perfect camera for every purpose, but generally speaking it’s ISO 3200 range and excellent codecs are well-suited to produce fine images in low-light and low-budget productions with good production design and good post.

In regards to low light the P4K has an ecosystem well suited, drop a T1.5 irix on a .64 metabones, shoot 3200 and then denoise in resolve studio (included). It’s a strong, cheap lowlight pipeline.

In regards to the question is the P4K right for professionals, it’s a tool that can be used to its strengths. Great witness cam, crash cam, b cam, travel cam…

why do you think that a 12k or a fx6 not need battery, lenses, rig, viewfinder etc?
i did tons of work with simple
- cage (+100$ tilta)
- battery plate (+24$)
- dual baxxtar nfp 970 (48$ each one, since 2.5-3 hours of work)
- sun hood for cage (tilta 34$)
- 128gb sd card lexar (48$) for prores or Q5 // 8:1 braw, most of prores LT
- ssd adapter (38$)
- cable usb-usb-c (20$)
- ssd samsung 870 1tb (110$)
- starting lenses 14-42 powerX (60$ used)

just to start... and i did tons of videos, also in doc low light.

To me (mostly non-pro nowadays), the BMPCC6K Pro is the sweet spot. ND filters, usable screen so you don't need an external monitor, acceptable battery life - no need for any rigging at all except maybe wireless audio and/or a timecode unit.

I think I would share that if I was using the BMPCC6K G2 since I like putting my own IRND on my lenses. However because I have fondness (you might call it an addiction) for using heavy lenses, this is the smallest mobile rig I’m using now we have gyro stabilization.



That’s the BMPCC4K with additional handle, 12” LWS carbon fibre rails, Shape handle and camera cage including quick release from VCT mount, SLR Magic 32mm taking lens and 1.33x-65 Anamorphot upfront, aligned by the SLR Magic Universal Lens Support that screws into the foot on the Anamorphot. The cage mounts for a mic and the Bright Tangerine Titan Arm for the BMVA12G7 are there if needed to see what I’m doing on the move.

If this is an addiction, thank goodness I never got into collector car restoration like some people I know. Easy to spend $100,000 or much more on old cars!

You would have loved today then, shooting ISO 320T film derated to ISO 200T because of age well past expiry date.

Keep on truckin’ and there’s No Time to Die.

We were blasting the set with the cheap leds we had, but it just wasn't enough to get a good picture. (yes the camera settings were correct.)

I suspect that they're not, because rarely is "correct" is rarely the same in two different situations, and even on the same set, "correct" can vary depending on the desired look.

On a short back in Seattle I used a Pocket 4K specifically for its low light performance for some exterior shots, so I'm pretty confident that the camera isn't the limiting factor on your set.

Im a huge BM fanboy btw, just thinking from a professionals pov if its a good value, ofc for a beginner its a no brainer amazing value.

It's a no brainer amazing value. It's as close to an Alexa Mini as you're going to get until you reach Venice and V-Raptor prices.

When evaluating a camera's abilities in low light situations, the quality of the color science of the codec should take precedence over the ability to record in unrealistic extreme low light conditions.

The Sony FX6 shares the same sensor and image with the cheaper A7S III. Here is a man who plunked down $4400 USD for the Sony A7S III with the Atomos Ninja V video recorder. He shot some video in ProRes raw and was surprised by lost highlights. He then recorded the same clip internally to a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K using Blackmagic raw.

He couldn't find the 15 stops of dynamic range in ProRes raw, and liked the 6K better. The 6K had better color and highlight recovery and he disliked Apple's support of ProRes raw. At 8000 ISO and below, the BMPCC 6Ks low light samples look better than the Sony A7S IIIs, although you can go to a higher ISO with it.

Fast forward to 3:00 on the YouTube video to see the difference in highlight recovery.

Sony A7S III vs Bmpcc 6k w/ Downloadable Files

/r/videography/comments/kjr6sg/sony_a7s_iii_vs_bmpcc_6k_w_downloadable_files/

When considering your budget, consider the cost of the consumables. These are costs that are seldom recovered when you sell your equipment.

The Blackmagic cameras can record to the officially recommended Samsung T5 2TB SSD USB drives at $179.99 when on sale. No high bitrate storage is cheaper.

The BMPCC 4K records 4K UHD 60 fps at 243 MB/s at a cost of ((3600x243) = (874,800/1,000,000) x(179.99/2)) $78.73 per hour.

If it was restricted to using a CFExpress Type A card, this would cost ((3600x243) = (874,800/1,000,000)x((1000000/160000)x398) $2,176.07 USD per hour!

On a BMPCC 4K, 4K DCI, BRAW 3.1 30 fps (129 MB/s) files are no smaller than ProRes HQ (121 MB/s). For anamorphic 2x solutions, the BMPCC 4K shoots 2.8K 4:3 anamorphic 12 bit BRAW 3.1 80 fps at 243 MB/s, and 10 bit ProRes HQ 80 fps at 510 MB/s.

4K DCI ProRes HQ at 60 fps on a BMPCC 4K takes up 241 Megabytes per sec. (1,928 mb/s).
If you record at 4K DCI 30 fps on the BMPCC 4K in BRAW 3.1, the data rate is 129 MB/sec.

The Sony FX6, FX3 and A7SIII caneras use CFExpress Type A cards that are expensive. Due to their small size, you have to be very careful about budgeting storage/finding time to transfer over a 12 hour work day.

BH sells the Sony 160GB CFexpress Type A TOUGH Memory Card for $398.00. 13 of them is 2TB at $5174, about 26 times more than a Samsung T5 2TB.

The FX6, FX3, A7S III and A7IV records 4K UHD 60p XAVC S-I, MP4, H.264, Linear PCM at 600 Mbps (75 MB/s) at a cost of ((3600x75)= (270000/1,000,000)x((1000000/160000)x398) $671.63 USD per hour!

This 8.53x higher cost is in spite of the fact that since the size is only 31% of the BMPCC 4K, you are storing fewer details to craft your image, since H.264 is compressing it more and limiting your range in post.

The FX6, FX3, A7S III and A7IV records XAVC S-1 4K at a maximum of 600 Mb/s (75 MB/s) on either a CFExpress type A card (VPG200 or higher) or an SDXC V90 or higher card.

BH Photovideo charges $189.99 on sale for a high bitrate 299 MB/s write Sony 128GB SF-G Tough Series UHS-II V90 SDXC Memory Card.
Using this SDXC card, the Sony FX6, FX3, A7S III and A7IV records XAVC S-1 4K at a cost of ((3600x75) = (270000/1,000,000)x(189.99x8)) $410.38 USD per hour!

The Fujifilm X-H2S uses CFExpress Type B cards that are expensive.

A 256GB CFExpress Type B card currently costs $269.99 on Amazon. 8 of them is 2TB at $2,159.92, about 12 times more than a Samsung T5 2TB.

Using a CFExpress type B card on a Fujifilm X-H2S, 4K DCI 17:9 ProRes (10-bit) 422 HQ 59.94 fps All-I records at up to ~2000 Mb/s (250 MB/s). That's ((3600x250) = (900,000/1,000,000)x(269.99x4)) $971.96 USD per hour!

A Fujifilm X-H2S records 6.2K 3:2 ProRes (10-bit) 422 HQ 29.97 fps All-I at up to ~2900 Mb/s (362.5 MB/s). That's ((3600x362.5) = (1,305,000/1,000,000)x(269.99x4)) $1,409.35 USD per hour!

A Panasonic GH6 and S5 relies on a V90 SDXC card to record.
BH Photovideo charges $189.99 on sale for a high bitrate 299 MB/s write Sony 128GB SF-G Tough Series UHS-II V90 SDXC Memory Card.
Using this SDXC card, the H.264 ALL-Intra/MOV 4:2:2 10-Bit 3840 × 2160 at 29.97 fps 400 Mb/s (50 MB/s) at a cost of ((3600x50) = (180000/1,000,000)x(189.99x8)) $273.59 USD per hour.

The Panasonic GH6 uses CFExpress Type B cards that are more expensive for 4K H.264 4:2:2 All-I recording at 800 Mb/sec. A 256GB CFExpress Type B card currently costs $269.99 on Amazon. 8 of them is 2TB at $2,159.92, about 12 times more.
Using a CFExpress type B card on a GH6, 4K DCI 17:9 ProRes (10-bit) 422 HQ 59.94 fps All-I records at up to ~2000 Mb/s (250 MB/s). That's ((3600x250)= (900,000/1,000,000)x(269.99x4)) $971.96 USD per hour!

4K DCI 17:9 H.264 4:2:2 All-I 29.97 fps recording at 800 Mb/s (100 MB/s). That's ((3600x100)= (360,000/1,000,000)x(269.99x4)) $388.79 USD per hour.

A GH6 can record 6.2K 3:2 ProRes (10-bit) 422 HQ 29.97 fps All-I at up to ~2900 Mb/s (362.5 MB/s). That's ((3600x362.5) = (1,305,000/1,000,000)x(269.99x4)) $1,409.35 USD per hour!

Both the SanDisk and Sony CFExpress Ver.2.0 Type B cards above 64GB have this note when used in video recording:

(*1) Even if the camera body is not hot, video recording may end halfway due to heat generated by the card.

https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/su ... c_gh6.html

CFexpress cards will thermal throttle, so they may only give you half of what their rated speed is with a continuous video recording once things heat up. This shows that having a compact body without adequate cooling could become a liability.

The recommended media for the RED Komodo is this:

RED DIGITAL CINEMA 512GB RED PRO CFast 2.0 Memory Card $529.00 USD

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... emory.html

For high complexity scenes, VFX, and stills from motion workflows, RED recommends the HQ setting, 6K 17:9, 23.98 FPS at 280 MB/sec.
This is ((3600x280) = (1,008,000/1,000,000)x$1058) $1,066.46 USD per hour! 13 hours would cost (1066.46 x 13) $13,864.03 USD!

Using a BMPCC 6K, you could shoot in BRAW 5.1 4K DCI 17:9 30 fps at 78 MB/sec., ((3600x78) = (280,800/1,000,000)x(179.99/2)) $25.27 USD per hour.

On a BMPCC 6K, if you shoot BRAW 5.1 6K 16:9 at 30 fps, you record at 185 MB/sec., ((3600x185) = (666,000/1,000,000)x(179.99/2)) $59.94 USD per hour.

On the BMPCC 6K, you also have the option to shoot at BRAW 6K 30 fps continuous quality, which depending on what's in the image, ranges from 185 MB/s (talking heads, diffused background) to 462 MB/s (ultra-wide angle, sharp wet leaves).

Duplicate

Duolicate

i dont see the benifit of the BMPC4k at all, mostly because of the time you would spend rigging, and the time you would spend blasting the shot with lights.

If you don't want to spend time "blasting" with lights, wait until the moon rises.

Thanks to it's Sony dual ISO sensor, the BMPCC 4K can shoot artifact-free, clean images at 6400 ISO. Here are some examples of the low light performance of the BMPCC 4K:

HOW GOOD IS BMPCC4K AT NIGHT?
Filming with BMPCC4K under a SUPERMOON.

Please refrain from clicking "Submit" again if you don't get an immediate response. It seems the server is recently a bit slow, but your messages are normally published at first click. Just be patient.

And, regarding the Supermoon video, you don't need a lens for 10K$. There are the Venus Laowa Argus or the Voigtlaender Nokton, for example.

I second that you can go very low light with BM's current Pocket line.

If I may have my say ... I just got the BMPCC4K. I took it at the end of May and it arrived in early June. We are in 2022 and someone will be able to tell me "did you get a cam in 2018 today?" my answer is yes. Because? I paid for the room 1345 €, sent VAT and all. We take away the 345 € of the value of Resolve Studio, the cam came to me 1000 €. Now I have seen on CineD that the camera has the same dynamic range as the Nikon Z9, it has dual native ISO which at 3200 ISO I honestly find nothing to object to. In this regard, I link a ProRes 1080p file at 3200 ISO as it came out of the Camera:

https://mega.nz/folder/Rd41HCaQ#h_q17hEGqaQBCs-CrRMTPg

If you use very bright optics (I took the Mitakon Speedmaster Cinema Lens at T1) I assure you that in very low light environments, you will take home a nice result. Honestly I think that around the Low Light you can find better but at what price? if you have a budget and want to work at very high ISO, get an A7s III.

The 4K is better in low-light than both the 12K or the 4.6K G1. You must be doing something wrong when lighting.

Exactly.

Wrong being not having lights at all.

I have a couple of cameras that will produce less noise with greater amplification (higher ISO) but they produce an image that is sterile in comparison to the BMPCC 4K. To me it's where you place value that will determine the relative cost.