Blackmagic Forum

I know that some people say it doesn't matter, but to some, it does. Perception is reality, and now the Sony FX3 is Netflix approved for original productions and the Pocket cameras are not. I think Blackmagic made a big mistake not adding a Timecode port to the Pocket 4K/6K, or at least the 6K Pro. What's weird is that the Ursa 12K is not approved either.

i rather think that BMD pays nothing to netflix for an approvment ; -)

Probably because of its track record for high rates of failure. The FX3 is a nice small form factor camera, somewhat like the Sigma fp.

To be clear - the 6k Pro is used extensively on Better Call Saul (https://gocreativeshow.com/better-call- ... all-adams/) for gimbal work and to get the camera in tight spaces. The opening sequence of the season is all shot on the 6k Pro! The camera is definitely used on professional productions, just not as the A-cam.

Sean van Berlo wrote:To be clear - the 6k Pro is used extensively on Better Call Saul (https://gocreativeshow.com/better-call- ... all-adams/) for gimbal work and to get the camera in tight spaces. The opening sequence of the season is all shot on the 6k Pro! The camera is definitely used on professional productions, just not as the A-cam.

Yes, and the Canon 5d mkII was used on Mad Mad Fury Road and many more movies. That’s not the point. The Sony FX3 is now approved as an “A” camera for Netflix productions, and the Pocket 6K isn’t. And where’s the 12K?

Netflix Approved cameras refer to productions they commission / own and they want you to follow a specific workflow. This gives them the flexibility to make different edits for countries where you can't show certain scenes and a bunch of other stuff that gets very technical. Since THEY own the film you're making outright they want the assets to have things that the BM Cameras don't do like a specific kind of timecode audio/video format.

I spoke to a Netflix acquisitions person a few years back and the camera list doesn't apply for projects that they license (like some docs) , so you can shoot on any camera you want BUT this may affect the license fee (and by affect I mean lower!) depending on YOUR overall workflow. I don't think that has changed.

Netflix's list of deliverables is an excellent reference point if you are creating content that you intend to sell. That list is more important than if the camera is approved or not IMO. When many people think of making a film, they are referring to actually making the film and not selling it which IMO is more important. When you don't have the deliverables asset creation in the budget you are limiting the earning potential of the project.

Hope that helps!

drknsss wrote:Netflix Approved cameras refer to productions they commission / own and they want you to follow a specific workflow. This gives them the flexibility to make different edits for countries where you can't show certain scenes and a bunch of other stuff that get very technical. Since they own the film you make outright they want all the assets to have things that they BM Cameras don't do.

I spoke to a Netflix acquisitions person a few years back and the camera list doesn't apply for projects that they license (like some docs) as opposed to own, so you can shoot on any camera you want BUT this may affect the license fee (and by affect I mean lower!) depending on YOUR overall workflow. I don't think that has changed.

Their list of deliverables is a excellent reference point if you are creating content that you intend to see regardless. That list is more important than if the camera is approved or not IMO.

Hope that helps!

You’re right on point. Do note that the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2 is a Netflix approved camera, the only BM camera approved for Netflix Original commissioned projects.

I don’t know why BM is not giving that camera much love, like a firmware update with Gen5 color science. Still waiting for a firmware update to it.

It seems like every couple of months this exact same subject pops up, and the basic response is -- who gives a crap?

If Netflix approached me to direct a $50M film for them, deciding on what cameras to shoot on would really not be up to me anyway.


"I think Blackmagic made a big mistake not adding a Timecode port to the Pocket 4K/6K, or at least the 6K Pro."

I don't agree whatsoever. Once again, as much as I think those cameras are great, they wouldn't be my first choice if I had to shoot a movie for Netflix (or anyone else for that matter) with a substantial budget. There are other limitations with those models that make them less appealing to those types of film productions than other cameras.

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:It seems like every couple of months this exact same subject pops up, and the basic response is -- who gives a crap?

The Psych 101 Answer to your response is when most people get their hands on new gear they actively or passively look for points of validation for the camera purchase. Youtube is filled with videos that play on that human need by either denigrating or re-enforcing that acquisition. Then those people come here to ask what's up..., just like I did when I got my camera in 2020....,

If has never happened to YOU then you are a better person than me.

Sure that’s natural, but after awhile if a camera meets your needs, it’s very good for you.

I try to use the camera setup in a way that works well even though on paper my gear is antiquated.

For example my favourite lens remains the Fujinon 20x7.8BRM. I’ve used it so many situations because the lens itself can handle everything that I’ve thrown at it. Yes, it’s restricted to a B4 mount, but that’s fine shooting 2K on the UM4.6K with its fat 5.5 micron photosites. Yes, I can’t really be comfortable with it on my shoulder, but being locked down becomes my style.

If a client wants a more mobile shot, the BMPCC4K at 4K/UHD/2.6K does the job. I use the Tokina 11-20mm zoom, but it’s a small range ideal for more intimate shots.

Still looking for a lens that behaves like those B4 lenses for my cameras with larger resolutions, but haven’t found one that’s affordable given personal obligations and priorities. Thinking about the Fujinon 12-120 Cabrio at $10,000 after deciding the range of the Tokina 25-75mm is limiting because I’m doing events, theatre, weddings where there’s no opportunity to swap lenses for long scenes.

Shoot with the capabilities of that Fujinon lens and sell to Netflix. Regardless of Netflix produced film’s camera requirements!

rick.lang wrote:Sure that’s natural, but after awhile if a camera meets your needs, it’s very good for you.

I can see where the "Netflix Approved" sticker might keep someone from trying or buying a camera and push sales towards others. Though I haven't stopped shooting the 12K. The newest firmware gives it a much better grain structure than previous.

If someone demands Netflix Approved, I'll just tape over the 12K logo and largely write 4.6K* over the tape. Then write very small on the bottom *scaled to 4.6K from 12K.

The usual debate aside, what’s interesting is that Sony simply conjured a “proprietary” Multi/Micro USB (Micro-USB!) to BNC cable, which was sufficient for the FX3 to be qualified for the Netflix list.

I had previously presumed that the BNC connector needs to be native to the camera for it to be Netflix approved, but it appears that’s not the case.

Sony even warn that the timecode may drift by one frame per hour after jamming from an external source, so it’s not even the timecode robustness that was in consideration.

Sound Devices already make a USB-C to BNC cable for their A20-Mini; I wonder whether a similar cable can be fashioned for jamming timecode by Blackmagic, for the Pocket line at least.

Forget the Netflix list, if this solution would be more reliable than jamming timecode through the 3.5-mm jack, then I’m all for it – something that would sync with both the shutter and audio clocks, and drift more smoothly over, say, 6 hours.

Bromine 18 wrote:Forget the Netflix list, if this solution would be more reliable than jamming timecode through the 3.5-mm jack, then I’m all for it – something that would sync with both the shutter and audio clocks, and drift more smoothly over, say, 6 hours.

Why would TC syncing through a USB-C to BNC cable be more reliable than through the 3.5 mm jack or through the mini-XLR jack?

If TC sync is really the thing holding back Netflix from approving the Pocket series, then they just might not have realized that the Pockets do not use LTC to audio track but can lock to the LTC directly without the need to record LTC into the audio track?

Although the actual requirements only state that the camera must be "capable of jamming to an external source", statements elsewhere seem to indicate they demand a "dedicated timecode input" because, in their view, the absence of one "makes it nearly impossible to have matching timecode".

And apparently they now consider that a "dedicated cable", BNC to USB, turns a USB port into a dedicated input, even with substantial drift.

Per the original query, as has been said many times before, the Netflix list is not a useful buying guide for persons not under contract with Netflix. When a Panasonic BS1H or the FX3 is an approved camera, neither of which anyone would use on as a A-cam on actual funded production, but most Alexa models aren't, best think twice?

Timecode does not "sync" anything.

Read Alister Chapman's blog about it here:

https://www.xdcam-user.com/2022/02/time ... -anything/

Deity Microphones TC-1 Wireless Timecode Generator Box (Bluetooth, 2.4 GHz)
$169.99

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _tc_1.html
more info
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?q ... TC1&sts=ma

Timecode isn't sync, it's metadata that's tied to the internal clock. After you press record, on an unsync'd cam, you're at the mercy of the internal clock. With a sync'd cam, the TC generator and the cam are tied to the same reference, one could record for 1000 hours with zero drift.

Regarding the LTC input on the FX3. I find it hard in any way to describe a USB port that is capable of file transfer, camera control, etc., as "dedicated". Sony refers to it as a multi/micro connector.

We collaborate extensively with the creative community, camera manufacturers, and globally recognized experts to approve cameras that support reliable and flexible production workflows.

Meeting the minimum requirements doesn't guarantee entry to the club, just eligibility. The reality is that Netflix is positioning itself as the gatekeeper. If you don't play nice, you don't get a star, I mean sticker, yeah it's coming.

Good Luck

Someone should tell all these Emmy Nominees they should be using the FX3…

https://ymcinema.com/2022/08/15/the-cam ... IusWzclePI

The top camera is not Netflix approved….

JB

John Brawley wrote:Someone should tell all these Emmy Nominees they should be using the FX3…

https://ymcinema.com/2022/08/15/the-cam ... IusWzclePI

The top camera is not Netflix approved….

JB

That’s no surprise. Still, no Blackmagic cameras.

Ellory Yu wrote:

John Brawley wrote:Someone should tell all these Emmy Nominees they should be using the FX3…

https://ymcinema.com/2022/08/15/the-cam ... IusWzclePI

The top camera is not Netflix approved….

JB

That’s no surprise. Still, no Blackmagic cameras.

They usually show up on the Sundance list.

https://ymcinema.com/2021/02/02/the-cam ... y-and-red/

It's ludicrous of course, I can't quite see the latest Netflix commissioned serial drama producer's say: "we were looking at using the Alexa LFs again, or maybe the new Venice 2, but now you've approved the FX3, we'll go with that, we've been waiting for it, cheers."

I understand it's nice to receive affirmation that the tools we may own are also used on the big shows but beyond that I'm not sure why it should matter to us. Should we be fortunate enough to produce for them, the choice and cost of camera would be of little concern. There's no real indication, either, of how and why they approve cameras beyond a vague detail in their portal and a video with a lot of test charts behind the smiling kid, mentioning vague criteria such as DR, resolution etc. They can't be a very busy testing department, they've only approved a couple of further cameras in the last couple of years.

Normally it used to follow that, if you set minimums, such as, 2/3" chips, 422 intraframe, TC/gen in, etc., you would at least be confident that prosumer models and therefore cameras lacking in the technical required minimum standards, would be usefully ruled out, especially if you backed it up with published, authoritative, technical tests, such as the EBU did. These days that doesn't necessarily follow. Many of these DSLRs are capable of 'professional' image quality, even if they are not particularly suited to certain types of professional workflows. I think ultimately it has to be viewed as more marketing than a true guideline - Netflix are telling us they place a lot of importance in picture quality and fidelity.

Steve Fishwick wrote:I think ultimately it has to be viewed as more marketing than a true guideline - Netflix are telling us they place a lot of importance in picture quality and fidelity.

I agree.

Netflix isn’t a traditional media company or studio, it’s a tech company that started making content.

One of their early innovations was 4K, when no one was doing 4K. They charged you more for a 4K service.

It was basically nerds in charge of a content delivery platform.

It makes sense that if you’re charging for a 4K service that you be able to show and stream your content as 4K content, even if that doesn’t make it objectively better content. You could get get sued by some user who figures out their 4K content isn’t 4K.

Then they started to MAKE content…

For a long time Netflix kept RED in business. I’m also pretty sure the person running the Netflix approved list is also ex-RED.

That’s all changed now. And it’s starting to dawn on the investment community that it takes more than money and a Netflix approved camera list to make good content, the thing that underpins their whole business….people watching and paying to do so.

Who cares if it’s streaming in 4K if it’s a garbage show that no watches…

Look at their current content. They are really struggling to make anything that’s objectively successful and are fast becoming a c grade studio mostly making narrative content that would be more at home on liftime than being a “premium” brand in the way HBO, Apple TV+ and even Amazon are moving…

The Netflix brand is waning and they are no longer the darling of the tech stock world either because they no longer have streaming to themselves. The established players, who do have a longer track record of making consistently successful content are overtaking them…..

JB

John Brawley wrote:It makes sense that if you’re charging for a 4K service that you be able to show and stream your content as 4K content, even if that doesn’t make it objectively better content. You could get get sued by some user who figures out their 4K content isn’t 4K.

Absolutely John. When I grade and online a broadcast show in the UK, I have to fill out a Record Report sheet, with all TC and technical details. If the show or documentary, more usually, contains SD, HDV or archive of a sub standard, of more than 15-25% of the total programme content, I will usually add in the notes "SD material exceeds 25%, archival content", to absolve myself more than anything. Much of that material has to be enlarged due to blanking too, further reducing it's quality. I watched a Netflix doc the other night that had more than 50% of such material and yet was graded in 4K Dolby Vision - why? Marketing and customer satisfaction.

Well, i can FINALLY add to this discussion....
I'm going to be the lead on a 4-month Documentary that the company i'll be working with wants to plan for Netflix release. As much as i want to utilize the 12k for A-Cam, i'm suggesting the Ursa Mini Pro G2 with a Pocket 6k Pro as B-Cam.

We'll most likely be using DZOFilm Vespid lenses as well!

Adam, if they aren’t commissioning you, you should shoot with whatever best suits the story with the resources you have.
I promise it will not make a difference to the “saleability” of your production. As long as it looks right for the story your telling they don’t really care when it’s not Netflix Original.

JB

John Brawley wrote:Adam, if they aren’t commissioning you, you should shoot with whatever best suits the story with the resources you have.
I promise it will not make a difference to the “saleability” of your production. As long as it looks right for the story your telling they don’t really care when it’s not Netflix Original.

JB

+1 to this. I've worked on documentaries that Netflix eventually bought. None of them followed Netflix camera list and they bought it anyway. The list was never even mentioned. As JB notes, it only applies to projects Netflix commissions up front.

A doc that I shot 11 years ago on a crappy little Canon T2i (an image wasn't even really HD!) was just picked up by NBCUniversal's Peacock streaming service. If you make a good documentary, it will sell. Distributors do not care what camera you shoot it on as long as the end result is something they think their audience wants to watch.

Good to know!

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:It seems like every couple of months this exact same subject pops up, and the basic response is -- who gives a crap?

If Netflix approached me to direct a $50M film for them, deciding on what cameras to shoot on would really not be up to me anyway.


"I think Blackmagic made a big mistake not adding a Timecode port to the Pocket 4K/6K, or at least the 6K Pro."

I don't agree whatsoever. Once again, as much as I think those cameras are great, they wouldn't be my first choice if I had to shoot a movie for Netflix (or anyone else for that matter) with a substantial budget. There are other limitations with those models that make them less appealing to those types of film productions than other cameras.

If I’m being honest there’s no other camera I would touch, besides the Alexa, if I were to get a choice. There’s no wow factor for me.

Chris Shivers wrote:
If I’m being honest there’s no other camera I would touch, besides the Alexa, if I were to get a choice. There’s no wow factor for me.

If given only one to pick and Alexa was a choice, that will be it every time. But we are not always that fortunate.

This will likely be approved too…