12K Formating SSD

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Tom Roper

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Dec 06, 2022 5:36 am

I would be very sad without my 12K. I think Thomas found a correlation between the 12K incompatibility and the 4TB Extreme Pro that seems not to be a problem with the 2TB Extreme Pro. I continue to use the 2TB with no problems on the 12K. And no, I don't let it hang from the cord, just put piece of velcro on the card and the battery and be sure to use the cable that came with the Extreme Pro. I just use BRAW Q5 and use it worry free for everything, 12K 60P and 8K 120P.
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Tom Roper

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Dec 06, 2022 6:03 am

I will add that although I don't think I've had any problems with the 12K and Extreme Pro 2TB that I remember, I have had a couple of instances between the Pocket 6K and the Samsung T5. The rescue solution has been an inexpensive utility called "Disk Drill" which supports BRAW file types, It will scan the entire disk for orphaned clusters and use artificial intelligence to reassemble them in the correct file order. So far, that has been 100% for me, but you have to use it first before you chance other operations that could overwrite physical areas of the disk. It may need to run overnite, the seeking takes time but it has been completely successful the several times I have needed it. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on what to do, what not to do. I speak only from my personal experiences with the U12K and Pocket 6K. I have one other observation to offer, I also shoot with Sony 16 bit linear raw with the PMW-F55 and R5 recorder. Those memory cards are extremely expensive, said to be so because of the robust build and quality assurance testing that goes into each one but that said, I have had one of those cards fail too and had to be replaced. Nothing is 100%.
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UnixMover

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostSun Dec 18, 2022 2:54 pm

aarongriffin27 wrote:Anyone figure out a way to recover the files? I just a had a big shoot and lost literally all my footage....


Yes, well maybe. If you have a monitor which can record SDI input (like the Video Assistant from BM) you can connect the SDI out from your UMP and recorded the video playback on the VA.

Or if you have a Micro converter (like the BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G from BM) you can connect the SDI output of the UMP to the converter and then consume the HDMI output on the VA or your computer.

I hope this help.

By-the-way: This is not theory. I recorded a video on my UMP and tried both methods. They work.
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Emil Pohjalainen

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostMon Jan 02, 2023 4:20 pm

Same problem for me described in the first post of this thread. I'm using a Micron 7300 U.2 3200gb SSD, from the list.

What I learned is that my Ursa 12K (bought after the price drop) formats the hard drive to a MBR partition style. Had no clue what that is and based on some research it seems to be the older style and is not capable of using bigger partitions than 2TB.

"If the capacity of your hard drive exceeds 2TB, you should choose GUID partition table (GPT) partitioning scheme, so that you can make use of all storage space"

Here is also a video on the subject of MBR vs GPT



When I format my Micron 7300 U.2 ssd using the Ursa 12k to ExFat, my windows workstation can't read it. The drive does show up in the disk manager, but not in file browser. I get the exact same thing as in the picture in the first post, weird partitions of under 2TB. The drive works in the camera though and can record video etc, I just can't acces the files.

If I however format and covert the drive to GPT I do get the full 3TB space and the workstation can read the drive normally. Yey! The camera can also use the drive and it works, but it does take longer for the camera to recognize the drive. It takes maybe one minute for the camera to recognize the drive when I turn it on whereas it finds it in like 2 seconds when the drive is formatted to MBR.

So just formatting the drive on th pc and choosing GPT partition style did kinda work in the first quick test, but the camera does behave differently. I don't know if that matters, but it makes me want to ask what the proper way of going about this is? Pretty confusing. If the camera needs the MBR style partition it formats to then how am I supposed to access my files? Also, it should obviously be mentioned if the camera is not capable of using more than 2TB drives, especially when bigger drives are promoted in the manual. If the GPT partitioning actually is a legit way, then that's great! Just super weird in that case the camera doesn't format to that by default.

It feels super weird how this file management can be so complicated. Also for me there is no other way to read the U.2 ssd than taking it out of the camera/SSD recorder and using a fishy cheap looking third party U.2 usb dock reader which was the only one I could find and connect that to the pc usb slot. Pc can't find the hard drive when trying to hook the camera or SSD recorder to the pc using an usb-C cable. A BM reseller here told me it is not even supposed to work, but here someone said they always connect the SSD recorder directly to pc using a usb-C cable and that way import the files to pc. I don't know, there are so many different experiences and advices that it is very unclear how this is intended to work with the 12k.

Just in case to not bury the most important question: Can I use GPT partitioning scheme when formatting?
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UnixMover

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Jan 17, 2023 2:27 am

Emil Pohjalainen wrote:...
Just in case to not bury the most important question: Can I use GPT partitioning scheme when formatting?

I look into this tomorrow.
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nicowieditz

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostTue Jan 17, 2023 7:01 am

I use the Micron 7300 Pro 7680 GB, do all formatting in the 12k camera directly and put the BM SSD Recorder directly to the Mac to readout all data. Why creating partitions? I still do not understand the problem. Sorry.

If the camera has a bug not reading the U2 drive correctly, I think BM should help here.
Did you contact the support?
Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k (BRAW), BMPCC 6k (BRAW), Ronin 4D (PRO RES RAW)
Computers: MacPro 7.1 128 GB VRAM
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Uli Plank

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Jan 18, 2023 12:54 am

Partitions are pretty much outdated, actually.
No, an iGPU is not enough, and you can't use HEVC 10 bit 4:2:2 in the free version.

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UnixMover

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Jan 18, 2023 3:45 am

Emil Pohjalainen wrote:...

Just in case to not bury the most important question: Can I use GPT partitioning scheme when formatting?


Ok, I took my 4GB SanDisk drive and formatted it on the computer. I performed a complete partition removal and then a format (not the quick format, the really slow format). I then placed the disk on the BM12K and recorded a few videos, 12K, 8K, 4K.

I took the drive, connected it to the computer and I could read the information from the disk. All videos played without incident.

I placed the drive back on the 12k and formatted the drive using the 12K. I recorded a 12k, 8k, and 4k video, which performed perfectly. To make sure the files were accessible, I played them on the 12K.

I then placed the SanDisk back on the computer, and...
12K Formatted.png
Image of the partitions created by the 12k formatting
12K Formatted.png (9.7 KiB) Viewed 3710 times
.

Same problem as I started this thread with.

As I mentioned in my thread, I am not using my SanDisks any longer with the 12K. It's all NVMe for me!
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nicowieditz

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Jan 18, 2023 4:01 am

Do you know someone who has a MacBook or something similar and someone who also has a 12k camera? Maybe there is a problem between BM 12K OS and your Windows computer. Usually it doesn't matter if Sandisk or not Sandisk. I use Sandisk, Samsung, Micron, Kingston - all work fine. My neighbor has a Windows computer and yesterday I plugged my Sandisk SSD 4 TB formatted in ex-fat in the 12k to his Windows computer (Windows 10).

In explorer everything was displayed correctly, all files could be read and played.

Your problem is very very strange.

If you know someone who has a Mac, try formatting the 12k as EX-FAT and then putting it on the Mac to see how it works. It could also be a windows bug.

I'm really sorry you're having such problems with it.
Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k (BRAW), BMPCC 6k (BRAW), Ronin 4D (PRO RES RAW)
Computers: MacPro 7.1 128 GB VRAM
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UnixMover

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 5:30 pm

nicowieditz wrote:...

I'm really sorry you're having such problems with it.

I have no one with a MAC. I have Linux, UNIX, Windows, VxWorks, and a few others, but no one with a MAC.

I personally feel the UMP12Ks which were released after the price drop do not have the same component makeup of the 12Ks before the price-drop. In the hardware world (which is where I have immense knowledge), you can't reduce the costs of hardware unless you find components which reduced your acquisition costs.

BM can't reduce the costs of the components which create the image, but storage...they could skimp on those components.

In the end, I've moved on from the USB media. I'm now into NVMe media. It's faster and BM created an add-on which can hold the cards. Yes, the device connects to USB, but I'm not having to fight any battles to get something to read the media.

With that stated, I am eagerly awaiting the delivery of a PRO-BLADE SSD media device which will reqiure USB 3.2 for connectivity. I'll be interested in how the 12K deals with that device.
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 6:27 pm

UnixMover wrote:Ok, I took my 4GB SanDisk drive and formatted it on the computer. I performed a complete partition removal and then a format (not the quick format, the really slow format). I then placed the disk on the BM12K and recorded a few videos, 12K, 8K, 4K.

I took the drive, connected it to the computer and I could read the information from the disk. All videos played without incident.


UnixMover wrote:I personally feel the UMP12Ks which were released after the price drop do not have the same component makeup of the 12Ks before the price-drop. In the hardware world (which is where I have immense knowledge), you can't reduce the costs of hardware unless you find components which reduced your acquisition costs.

BM can't reduce the costs of the components which create the image, but storage...they could skimp on those components.


Wouldn't being able to use and format the drive on the computer then record on the 12K indicate it's a firmware issue with the 12K? Not hardware? Why would a hardware issue create extra partitions?
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UnixMover

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 8:00 pm

Ryan Earl wrote:Wouldn't being able to use and format the drive on the computer then record on the 12K indicate it's a firmware issue with the 12K? Not hardware? Why would a hardware issue create extra partitions?

If you purchase lower-quality components, you will not get the same results as a higher-quality component no matter the firmware you push onto the device. I'm not discounting the firmware might suck, but then people owning the original 12k's would experience the issues I have. There were a few posts by people owning the original "expensive" hardware and they are not seeing the issue. While others which purchased the cheaper hardware appear to be having the issues, I am. You can draw your own conclusions.

My point is I am moving away from USB disks and to NVMe, which appears to have no issues (despite the fact they use the same USB interface as the SSD). If you read back in the thread, you will see there is a long discussion about having a SPECIFIC SanDisk SSD which is supposed to resolve the issue. I never purchased that specific SSD as I moved away from the form-factor, so I can't verify the statement.

Now I use the exact same SanDisk SSD on a 12G Video Assistant and do not experience any issues. It does not matter if I format on the PC, or the VA, the data recorded to the device is accessible everywhere I connect the SSD.

I'm trying to limit my issues with BM devices )and I own a few of them these days). The issue of not allowing the 12k to format a disk is relatively small in my gripes about BM products. It appears they have a much bigger issue with their networking stack, and this bothers me all the time. I'm continually rebooting BM devices to keep them working. I resolved the disk issue I had by changing to NVMe drives. And I now have a workaround to the networking issue. I installed a network power strip and just reboot the devices when they malfunction.
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UnixMover

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 8:06 pm

Well, my Pro-Blade SSD (NVMe drive) just arrived. I connected it to my PC, formatted the disk and then connected it to the UMP12K. I recorded a video in 12K, 8K, & 4K. All the videos played back on the UMP. I then took the Pro-Blade and connected it to my computer and everything was accessible.

I then connected the Pro-Blade SSD to the 12K and formatted the disk. It formatted without issues. I then recorded 12K, 8K, & 4K videos and played them back on the 12K. I then took the disk to the PC, where all the videos were accessible, and played back perfectly.

Now all of this is over the USB interface (since the Pro-Blade is a USB interface to an NVMe drive), both on the PC and the 12K.
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UnixMover

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostThu Jan 19, 2023 10:41 pm

aarongriffin27 wrote:Anyone figure out a way to recover the files? I just a had a big shoot and lost literally all my footage...

formatted my Sandisk Extreme Pro SdSSDE81-4T00 on the ursa 12k just before the shoot all files played back just fine on the camera. I go to plug in the SSD to edit the files and drive "fails to initialize". Disk recovery utility only shows some files. Seems like files are lost. I'm about to just return this camera because of this I can't have a clients paying me thousands of dollars and then the device just fails. So embarrassing.

This was somehow posted in another place:

Yes, well maybe. If you have a monitor which can record SDI input (like the Video Assistant from BM) you can connect the SDI out from your UMP and recorded the video playback on the VA.

Or if you have a Micro converter (like the BiDirectional SDI/HDMI 12G from BM) you can connect the SDI output of the UMP to the converter and then consume the HDMI output on the VA or your computer.

I hope this help.

By-the-way: This is not theory. I recorded a video on my UMP and tried both methods. They work.
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UnixMover

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostWed Jan 25, 2023 9:02 pm

Tilta just made me sad as I already moved away from SSD devices. They just announced a new holder for SSD drives, which appears to be great at holding the SanDisk SSD (even pictured the SSD on their site modeling the holder) since I was just letting my SSD dangle next to the 12K, or sometimes using a rubber band to hold it to the camera. I'll order one and see if it can hold my PRO-Blade NVMe drive. But for those of you still using the SSD form factor, check it out.
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dondidnod

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostSat Feb 04, 2023 5:05 pm

More camera users have been reporting problems with the SanDisk Extreme Pro 4TB Portable SSD lately. Could there be a bad batch?

u/ian__ wrote:

"Hello editor friends, I (a DIT) have come to deliver a warning from the camera department.

A warning specifically about SanDisk 4TB Extreme Pro SSDs:

Multiple DITs/Loaders/ACs on both coasts have experienced the exact same failure with these drives over the last month.The symptom seems to be that after a sustained write they will completely lose their filesystem and it's a total crap shoot wether you can recover it or not. The primary way you will see this is that the drive will unmount and you will not be able to get it to mount again, despite showing up in Disk Utility. You can sometimes recover it using DiskDrill's filesystem rebuild, but occasionally that does nothing. It persists with any filesystem type.

A few of us are working with a colleague at SanDisk to try and get this addressed, but in the meantime we're collecting data to prove to SanDisk that it actually is more than a fluke.

Unfortunately consolidation in the hard drive industry has given us few other options that are as portable, affordable, and speedy so it's fairly important to get this addressed.

If you've experienced this, we would really appreciate it if you would log it at this form with as much of the information that you have. We promise we aren't selling your info, only sending the failures direct to SanDisk so they can hopefully track down the root of the issue."

https://notionforms.io/forms/drivetracker/

r/editors A Warning About SanDisk Extreme Pro SSDs

https://www.reddit.com/r/editors/commen ... /?sort=new
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostSun May 14, 2023 12:19 am

I do have the exact same problem. My SSD is the Samsung 4 TB 870 EVO and I also formated with the Ursa 12k. My camera is also the model after the price drop.

The Samsung 4 TB 870 EVO is on the list for the recommended SSD's to use with the SSD Recorder.

Unfortunately I don't own any monitor with SDI input, the BMD Cloud Pod or a SDI to HDMI converter.

I have some semi important files from a shoot on the SSD.

Did somebody find another way of accessing the files?

I was thinking about trying to convert the MBR drive to GPT, there are many tutorials about it on YouTube with very good rating, so I guess it's possible. The only thing is that like the others I have 4 partitions with 2 TB each plus 2 TB which are unallocated, so 10 TB in total, but the SSD has only 4 TB :geek:
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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostSat Jun 10, 2023 9:32 pm

Hi,
I'm having the same exact problem as UnixMover.

I used a 4tb SanDisk Extreme Pro Portable SSD model SDSSDE21-4T00 for almost two years without issues.

I've checked my SSD through this "firmware updater tool" and it does not present any firmware issue
( https://support-en.wd.com/app/firmwareupdate)

Lately my 12k (purchased after the price drop) was having some problems recognizing the SSD (it took more than 1 minute to read the correct space available and be ready to record) so I changed the original SanDisk cable with a new one and formatted the media on the ursa 12k for the first time.

Everything went back running smoothly and the ssd could instantly be recognized by the camera until I plugged my media in my Windows 10 workstation only to come across the same formatting issue as admirably described in this thread. The Sandisk Extreme Pro is detected by the system but cannot be read.

I'll plug the ssd into a macbook to recover the files and try the 12g video assist format method.

There's not much to add, I mainly intended to list my case with those already emerged.
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Tom Roper

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Re: 12K Formating SSD

PostThu Dec 21, 2023 4:58 am

I have been using the SanDisk Extreme PRO Portable SSD, SDSSDE81-2T00 (2 TB version) for several years now with my U12K, shooting 12288 x 6480 Q3 at 59.94 fps almost exclusively. It's been 100% reliable for me. I picked up another one on sale and it's working great too. Very happy with them both. I understand the 4 TB version has been a bumpy road for others.

I have the V-Mount battery adapter on the back of the U12K. I use a piece of Velcro to stick the SanDisk to the battery and use the short USB-C cable that comes in the box. Simple and works great for me.
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