Blackmagic Forum

An UHD version/link will be coming soon (few days). I'm about to head out for the day to work so will be slow answering questions to begin with sorry.

That's great work man, congrats!

Hopefully this will help put some peoples concerns to rest.

I do actually notice a difference in the highlights specifically, but like you said I love the motions.

Also, I heard rumor that This camera only outputs Prores at 8-bits, rather than 10. Is that true with your findings?

idut21 wrote:... I heard rumor that This camera only outputs Prores at 8-bits, rather than 10. Is that true with your findings?

There's no such thing as 8-bit ProRes HQ. ProRes HQ is 10-bit 4:2:2. Period.

The BMPC-4K records ProRes HQ at 3840 x 2160 and 1920 x 1080. Both 10-bit 4:2:2. It will also record 12-bit compressed RAW.

Now, if BMD is packing 8-bits, or 6-bits, or 4-bits worth of color into a 10-bit ProRes HQ or 12-bit RAW file, that's a different matter. TBD.

sick!!!!!! Especially the night basketball shots. Don't plan on buying this camera soon but very excited how things are going with it.

Nice work CaptainHook.

Footage is looking very tasty.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:

idut21 wrote:... I heard rumor that This camera only outputs Prores at 8-bits, rather than 10. Is that true with your findings?

There's no such thing as 8-bit ProRes HQ. ProRes HQ is 10-bit 4:2:2. Period.

The BMPC-4K records ProRes HQ at 3840 x 2160 and 1920 x 1080. Both 10-bit 4:2:2. It will also record 12-bit compressed RAW.

Now, if BMD is packing 8-bits, or 6-bits, or 4-bits worth of color into a 10-bit ProRes HQ or 12-bit RAW file, that's a different matter. TBD.

Thanks for clarifying. Honestly never gave much thought to that.

Outstanding! It is really nice!... Especially night shots. Also the skin tones, look and global shutter are really nice..

Thanks!

thank you for posting this.

I have to say that I'm less pleased then the rest of you guys, don't get me wrong the footage looks way better then what you would expect out of a camera at this price point however to me the images also look way more digital then that of the original bmcc.
S35 is a great thing and the images sure hold a lot of detail but to me they look a fair bit to sharp. This sharpness may only be occurring due to the post-processing applied to the footage but it may also be sensor related.
For commercial work this certainly won't be an issue but it might make it harder for the camera to be a replacement for a classic film camera.

F.K. wrote:S35 is a great thing and the images sure hold a lot of detail but to me they look a fair bit to sharp. This sharpness may only be occurring due to the post-processing applied to the footage but it may also be sensor related.

It's 4k, it ought to be sharp to hold up on UHD displays.

You will find that their is a difference between sharpness and resolution they are not the same.

Nice footage, Captain Hook. I am actually impressed with the camera's low light capability.

I know that opinions will be many on here. This sensor is very different to me than the BMCC sensor (I'm not being critical ... just adjusting). In some ways, it's not as creamy as the Arri Alexa or BMCC. This will be a very nice camera for TV comercial work. With Post work, I am sure you can get a more filmic look, as there is a lot to work with. This is just my initial take on it. I am still grading Grant's clips and working with introducing FilmConvert and other grain products (like 4k Gorilla Grain) to see how these plug-in work with the BMPC sensor. I think ... maybe ... I like the BMCC ProRes film log file more, but the BMPC has S35 and global shutter.

F.K.
These shots look great. With the proper LUT and some post work you could get these clips to look more filmlike if you wanted, but you would never be able to recreate the detail that is captured in these clips. The detail captured with the 4K resolution is simply awesome. I saw the recent clips released from the Sony 4k camera and it is nothing like this. Even when outputting a 1920x1080 clip, the detail is so much greater when downsizing from 2k and now 4k. I shot identical clips with my BMCC with the Prores and Raw settings. With identical grading and outputting to 1920x1080 the Raw 2k clips have visibly more detail. I cannot wait to get this camera.

Global shutter looks nice. Can't wait to see the UHD version.

The only thing that strikes me odd is how the clouds look in the sky. I have the same feeling about Grant's footage as well. The BMCC seems to render clouds like no other.

This looked a little oversharpened in places and reminded me of some footage I saw from red that made what was in focus look detached from the background bokeh.

The important thing is it delivers on what it promised and that's great news. Now for the tricky bit. Gimme my camera NOW!

Great stuff here, Hook. Really awesome shots and the footage and your grades look great!

Scott -- what are you referring to re: clouds?

Just curious what you mean.

Just quickly while I'm on break, I did add a little sharpening for vimeo as the H264 made me sad, but the UHD version has none so will be a more true example. Thanks for the words guys, BMD are killing it I think. Be back later with more.

Looks great, CaptainHook.

Kholi wrote:Scott -- what are you referring to re: clouds?

Just curious what you mean.

At the 5 second mark there are clouds in the center of the screen just above the rocks. They just look really plain like a single shade of gray without any texture.

However it could just be that it was a really boring looking sky. I'm used to shooting in Hawaii where the clouds are epic

I have been resizing the UHD footage to 2560x1440 to play on my 27" display and it looks stunning. Can't wait to see how this new footage looks that way.

Okay I thought that's what you meant.

Thanks for clarifying!

First, thank you Captain Hook. I'm so happy to see footage from an artist rather than from a CEO. No offense Grant Petty- you have great vision and serious balls to take on the "big boys", but your footage wasn't- well, let's say it wasn't as thrilling to watch as the Captain's.

Now the big question to Captain- if you shot this with the 2.5k BMCC, can you say that the image you produced here is $2000 better? I've seen some absolutely stunning video from the BMCC that I honestly think looks as good as the production above. I'd love to hear your thoughts about BMCC vs BMPC4K from an artist with hands on experience with both cameras. Or perhaps since you are a tester, we have to wait for that critique??

Thanks for posting this. Just fabulous.

Kholi wrote:Okay I thought that's what you meant.

Thanks for clarifying!

NP!

I really wish I knew how to do the Adobe Lightroom "clarity" functionality in Resolve. This can really add a lot to a boring cloudy sky. I have asked around but still no answers.

I don't know if it is just placebo but the global shutter seems to make handheld footage okay to watch. Really looking forward to putting this camera on a stabilizer.

Scott, replied in the other 4K thread.

Leaving this one for the drool pool. xD

Looks promising. Had me worried with the added sharpness that that was how the sensor saw the world, thanks for clearing that up. If you ever have a chance you should do a side by side of something

also one thing that surprised me is the feel of the footage. I know the original BMCC matched Alexa footage way more than Red in my experience but this new one seems like an entirely new feel. It's almost on the verge of looking like the 7d but with a ton more resolution, maybe more like a still?

c131frdave wrote:First, thank you Captain Hook. I'm so happy to see footage from an artist rather than from a CEO. No offense Grant Petty- you have great vision and serious balls to take on the "big boys", but your footage wasn't- well, let's say it wasn't as thrilling to watch as the Captain's.

Now the big question to Captain- if you shot this with the 2.5k BMCC, can you say that the image you produced here is $2000 better? I've seen some absolutely stunning video from the BMCC that I honestly think looks as good as the production above. I'd love to hear your thoughts about BMCC vs BMPC4K from an artist with hands on experience with both cameras. Or perhaps since you are a tester, we have to wait for that critique??

Thanks for posting this. Just fabulous.

This camera is not supposed to be a relacement for the BMCC, just simply a whole different camera. The extra cost is due to the sensor, and some R&D development I'm sure.

Love the footage! I may get one!

Looks great!

idut21 wrote:
This camera is not supposed to be a relacement for the BMCC, just simply a whole different camera. The extra cost is due to the sensor, and some R&D development I'm sure.

Yes, I know that. But I still would like a comparison. I'm deciding whether to get the BMCC or 4k for my own hobby uses, and I'd like to have a comparison of the two. You can compare and contrast a Ferrari to a Corvette if you're going into it knowing what each car represents. I know what the 4k and CC represent.

Wow! The footage looks great! Truly looks filmlike. Looking at this reminds me of what is missing from the BMCC and Pocket Camera. Frick'en actual WIDE ANGLES!

Chris Chiasson wrote:Wow! The footage looks great! Truly looks filmlike. Looking at this reminds me of what is missing from the BMCC and Pocket Camera. Frick'en actual WIDE ANGLES!

BMD Camera specific Speedboosters. Problem solved.

I don't have Nikon lens, so not yet.

Chris Chiasson wrote:Wow! The footage looks great! Truly looks filmlike. Looking at this reminds me of what is missing from the BMCC and Pocket Camera. Frick'en actual WIDE ANGLES!

Okay. I've read this kind of comment here for months. And I've made commercials for 30 years. How effin' wide do you need to be? Really. I just don't get it. Wide and film like are totally different things.

It has much more detail than BMCC being 4k. The highlight roll off clips a bit and DR not as good but we know that. It looks like a 5DMkIII with Magic Lantern Raw enable even though it was shot in Prores.

Vince Gaffney wrote:

Chris Chiasson wrote:Wow! The footage looks great! Truly looks filmlike. Looking at this reminds me of what is missing from the BMCC and Pocket Camera. Frick'en actual WIDE ANGLES!

Okay. I've read this kind of comment here for months. And I've made commercials for 30 years. How effin' wide do you need to be? Really. I just don't get it. Wide and film like are totally different things.

Wide as in big in scope. With small sensors, for me personally, you can make a wide angle, but it feels wide because of how far back you need to be, and less on just simply grabbing and containing as much of the world around you. Or it's wide because you're using a fisheye, and distorting the image. And even still, there's a lot that feels left out. Whereas with the bigger sensor, you can simply grab more in the image. You can see more of the world you're trying to create or capture.

That, and getting wide angles with my T3i and Blackmagic Pocket have been a pain. And probably will continue that way till I get the speedbooster for Ef glass, when or if it comes out.

Filmlike more has to do with the detail and sharpness.

But that's just my opinion.

Very nice footage, Captan Hook. Some shots look very much the opposite of video. Very nice ocean shots.
Great job, team Blackmagic.

F.K. wrote:I have to say that I'm less pleased then the rest of you guys, don't get me wrong the footage looks way better then what you would expect out of a camera at this price point however to me the images also look way more digital then that of the original bmcc.
S35 is a great thing and the images sure hold a lot of detail but to me they look a fair bit to sharp. This sharpness may only be occurring due to the post-processing applied to the footage but it may also be sensor related.
For commercial work this certainly won't be an issue but it might make it harder for the camera to be a replacement for a classic film camera.

I suspect much of that is down to grading applied by the poster if his previous grading to Grant's sample is anything to go by Mr Hook may have given it a higher contrast at the expense of highlight tonality. Only he could answer that at this stage.

F.K. wrote:You will find that their is a difference between sharpness and resolution they are not the same.

Yes, there is a difference between sharpness and resolution. I was going to point that out. It's entirely possible to have soft 4k images. Careful choice of glass can help in that regard.

Thanks for the post Captain. It's nicely shot and graded footage. Nice to see some dynamic footage from the camera in the hands of a cinematographer. I have a feeling that the shipping of this camera is closer than folks think.

Thanks to all the comments so far, appreciate the kind words and also totally understand other comments/preferences about the other cameras. I'm gonna cross post some comments from the other forum..

Scott Pultz wrote:The only thing that strikes me odd is how the clouds look in the sky. I have the same feeling about Grant's footage as well. The BMCC seems to render clouds like no other.

One of my first comments when i got the camera was the highlight rolloff on some clouds, but then on this video i didn't try to maintain any roll off into the highlights in the grade and pushed it like i did Grants video (i did this one prior) - so go figure! I do think it's possible to get more DR out of the camera than i did with my grade here, and i think people will see/experience that in time. Kholi is already all over it with Grants footage etc and doing a great job of it. I may attempt to try that in the near future too, but being so close to xmas it may take a while. Besides, i think others can show it and even better. Also, remember Grant said there are other testers (and we all know John is one) so who knows what's down the pipeline. But it's a real joy to see this even in 1080p playing in Resolve.

--

Global shutter in handheld made me feel like i was a better operator when viewing back the footage! It made 'shaky' stuff much more tolerable to me. And gain, i love the motion.

I really want to put all 3 cameras side by side and shoot the same thing too - i have done that but it was of a boring chart with my GF standing in and i was actually testing the Hoya ND's. But i'm curious myself. Just a time thing.

The upload for this vid was 25Mbps H264 and that compared to the 1080p 422HQ render actually made me pause and wonder if i should upload this at all ! Seriously, i've always been "okay" with the H264 conversions from the BMCC/Pocket but this time the detail/resolution got HAMMERED which is why i added a bit of sharpening to try counteract it. The UHD file coming soon should "tell all". The night stuff at the end was my first time shooting at night and i did it all at 800ASA as an experiment - it was also a couple of stops under for some of it so there's a bit of noise there that the H264 smoothed out a little. But i would judge the night stuff in the middle of the clip with the car in the street etc instead, as that was at 400ASA F2 with no additional lighting - admittedly that street gave me an ambient reading only a stop or so under that, and i think at 400 and one stop under i'm much happier with the noise than i am doing the same on the other two cams. But i still need to experiment further with exposure etc. It took a long time for some of us to get a good handle on how we like to work with the BMCC/Pocket, hopefully this one is quicker!

I haven't shot anywhere near as much in 1080p in camera yet but from what i have seen, i was definitely impressed. You'll still feel the resolution increase over the 2.4K/Pocket for sure, and i would say the in camera scaling and debayering is pretty damn good for realtime.

The only other thing to add would be at the moment you have to work a little harder to get detail in the low-mids -> shadows, something John pointed out early on (he has a great eye for this stuff).

Otherwise i can't wait for others to get this cam, i really do think people will love the images they can get with it!!

2.35 in. On the right looks like a black hole?

Thanx Capitan Hook. And yes another black hole at 1:03 y le led light of the audio. This problem its not resolved

Seems something is showing up looks red not black, but maybe the CC caused it to look red

I understand how annoying the black sun (or purple sun) is on these cameras, but Black Magic cameras are not the only system that suffer from this. Even the Alexa does this every once in a while.

When you upload the UHD, can it be pro-res or some other less compressed format?

Matt Pritchard wrote:I understand how annoying the black sun (or purple sun) is on these cameras, but Black Magic cameras are not the only system that suffer from this. Even the Alexa does this every once in a while.

Yup. Many cameras produce that issue. It only happens under extreme conditions and it's easy to fix.

You can even get Resolve (or other software) to produce it in footage that does not show the issue when pushing the footage in the grade.

So Captain, not sure if you can comment, but are there any menu features available in the new camera that might point to what we might be seeing for the BMCC

adamroberts wrote:

Matt Pritchard wrote:I understand how annoying the black sun (or purple sun) is on these cameras, but Black Magic cameras are not the only system that suffer from this. Even the Alexa does this every once in a while.

Yup. Many cameras produce that issue. It only happens under extreme conditions and it's easy to fix.

You can even get Resolve (or other software) to produce it in footage that does not show the issue when pushing the footage in the grade.

May be the solution its that resolves have a special plugin to the black dot

adamroberts wrote:

Matt Pritchard wrote:I understand how annoying the black sun (or purple sun) is on these cameras, but Black Magic cameras are not the only system that suffer from this. Even the Alexa does this every once in a while.

Yup. Many cameras produce that issue. It only happens under extreme conditions and it's easy to fix. ...

I respectfully but strongly disagree with the idea that BMD should leave it to post software to address "black sun" artifacts in any of their cameras.

They fixed this issue in the BMPCC pocket cam, and hopefully they'll also fix it in the new BMPC-4K cam by the time it ships or ASAP. If the hardware is capable of it, they should fix it in the BMCC, too.