Shaky Jellow Footage

Hello everybody. I come from shooting with big cameras like Arri and RED and haven't really used smaller compact "cinema" cameras before. I just bought a BMPCC 6K Pro and i was all excited, but now i'm really dissapointed. The camera is great don't get me wrong, but i can't use it. I normally shoot handheld footage with a lot of motion and movement but this camera is very shaky and jellowy when i do so, to a point where i can't use it.

The bigger cameras have more weight to them and because of that handheld footage actually looks smooth compared to the BMPCC shaky footage. I've had the camera for two days now and tried a ton of different things but i'm already considering selling it and switching to a RED Komodo. This camera is great for doing stuff like interviews on tripods or gimbals, but the type of footage i shoot where there is a lot of motion and movement is just not going to work. When i shoot on the big cameras i always stabilize the footage in Premiere - and it works perfect 99% of the time. But when i try stabilizing the BMPCC footage it glitches out and is not usable at all because of all the small micro movements and jellowy look.

I know this is a problem for smaller compact cameras, but i didn't know that it would be so extreme. I have used smaller cameras like the A7Siii which also has some of the small micro movements - but it's nothing like the BMPCC. I was so shocked when i tried the camera out, because i have seen a lot of YouTube videos on the BMPCC and i didn't notice this problem on any of the videos - all the footage looks great to me.

Does anyone have experience with both the BMPCC line and the RED Komodo, that can tell me if the shaky/jellowy footage is the same on the Komodo or better? The Komodo is also a small camera compared to the big Arri/RED cameras, but i feel like the Komodo is much better built and has a bit of weight to it compared to the BMPCC that's very light and made of plastic. And the Komodo has no rolling shutter aswell so that helps.

Or does anyone have any tips for fixing the shaky footage? I've tried every stabilization mode on DaVinci Resolve including Gyro and nothing really works. And it's not really a stabilization software issue, it's the footage. The footage is just too shaky for any stabilization software to work. I've tried multiple lenses (none of them have IPS), from 12mm up to 85mm. The 85mm is jellowy of course, but even the 12mm is extremely shaky. The A7Siii with a 16mm is amazingly steady compared to this.

Just to clarify, a gimbal or other kind of stabilizers is not an option for me - it has to be handheld. And ive researched a ton and can't find any solution. Maybe this camera just isn't for me?

Thank you very much

For such purposes I have a Sony.
But if you want something free of RS, get the Komodo.

I don't know if this is the right camera for your kind of shooting.

can you upload a small test snippet somewhere?
would be really interesting to see.

and yes, with the camera alone and possibly light still lenses,
it is quite difficult to create satisfactory images.

my 6Kpro is in a tilta fullcage and on the heavy meike s35 cine lenses
makes one's life in the handheld area already much easier.
(stabilization afterwards is rarely necessary)

my basic setup as shown in the picture weighs exactly 3.0kg
(including the tripod plate, which I also leave up when shooting)
and then sometimes a follow focus and a matte box are added.

IMG_7261.jpeg (329.38 KiB) Viewed 7485 times

This is all very worrying as I'm about to plunk for the PL Mount and Pictor zooms on my UBG2. I'm hoping the shoulder mount weight of the Ursa body will help, though I mostly use sticks too. Funnily enough the read out specs of this sensor are slightly better than the Sony FX9 FF and I am cutting a ton of hand held footage from that camera right now - I can see no jello. Again maybe the shoulder mount config?

...but even the 12mm is extremely shaky. The A7Siii with a 16mm is amazingly steady compared to this.

12mm on S35mm should not be 'extremely shaky'.

Best you upload an example as definitions of shaky may vary.

I had trouble in the past balancing lightweight setups for handheld. If the mass to slow movements down isn't there then the distribution of the little weight there is becomes more important.

There's 2 different things you're talking about, micro jitters and rolling shutter effect. They aren't really related. You could have zero micro jitters but still get jello effect. You'd still get micro jitters on the Komodo but no jello. Be more specific with which it is or is it both? Were you using IBIS on the Sony? I'd assume the Sony would micro jitter too..

This is all very worrying as I'm about to plunk for the PL Mount and Pictor zooms on my UBG2. I'm hoping the shoulder mount weight of the Ursa body will help, though I mostly use sticks too. Funnily enough the read out specs of this sensor are slightly better than the Sony FX9 FF and I am cutting a ton of hand held footage from that camera right now - I can see no jello. Again maybe the shoulder mount config?

I'm a bit trepidatious in posting this as our perception of "shaky" differs and I would hate for you to be disappointed. Having said that, my URBG2 on my shoulder is my go-to for "hand held" shots. I put dual hand grips on it and have a Tilta nucleus controller just above one. Obviously the footage is not as stable as using sticks but for an eng/document/reality style it's very acceptable to me. I gave up on trying to hand hold my bmpcc's and use a monopod for mobility.

Obviously the footage is not as stable as using sticks but for an eng/document/reality style it's very acceptable to me.

Is that using the full frame Super 35 sensor as opposed to a B4 4K crop, Walter? I haven't noticed any jello with a B4 lens and shoulder mount hand held on the UBG2.

Obviously the footage is not as stable as using sticks but for an eng/document/reality style it's very acceptable to me.

Is that using the full frame Super 35 sensor as opposed to a B4 4K crop, Walter? I haven't noticed any jello with a B4 lens and shoulder mount hand held on the UBG2.

I only use Canon mount lenses so yes that would be full frame 35 sensor.

Obviously the footage is not as stable as using sticks but for an eng/document/reality style it's very acceptable to me.

Is that using the full frame Super 35 sensor as opposed to a B4 4K crop, Walter? I haven't noticed any jello with a B4 lens and shoulder mount hand held on the UBG2.

What's a UBG2?

Sorry, Ursa Broadcast G2, it has the same 6K sensor as on the Pockets.

Obviously the footage is not as stable as using sticks but for an eng/document/reality style it's very acceptable to me.

Is that using the full frame Super 35 sensor as opposed to a B4 4K crop, Walter? I haven't noticed any jello with a B4 lens and shoulder mount hand held on the UBG2.

What's a UBG2?

The shoulder mount is the key for me in regard to shaking. Jello however is the same as the BMPCC 6KP.

The shoulder mount is the key for me in regard to shaking. Jello however is the same as the BMPCC 6KP.[/quote]

If we're talking about the URSA here I think the readout is way faster isn't it?

If we're talking about the URSA here I think the readout is way faster isn't it?

Andrew, we're talking about the Ursa Broadcast G2 (https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursabroadcast), not the Ursa Mini Pro G2. The UBG2 has the identical senor to the 6K Pockets.

Kenneth, you might try a slight sensor crop for faster readout:

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K (Pro/G2):

• 6K - 19.73ms
• 6K 2.4:1 - 14.61ms
• 5.7K - 16.26ms
• 4K - 15.79ms
• 3.7K anamorphic - 16.42ms
• 2.8K - 7.98ms

I have a PCC6K Pro in a Tilta cage like Mark, but also added 15mm rods, a side grip and a light weight v-mount plate at the backend with a micro v-mount battery. I can use both hands and my chest to stabilize my movements then and the camera balances quite well even with heavy lenses. This helps tremendously against micro jitters. A Nucleus Nano together with the advanced grip can be used for focusing the lens.

I still prefer my PCC4k with the Olympus 12-100mm for handheld work, but with that setup the PCC6K is very workable too.

Part of the issue is that these are cinema cameras and not Go Pros. They're meant to be dialed in to a cinematic shot, not necessarily flung around haphazardly. When treated as a cinema camera, those issues go away. Sure, there are micro jitters going handheld without any stabilization but stabilizing with the gyro data eliminates that entirely. If it's a weight issue...add weight. I've never used an Arri but I don't imagine that shaking it around would produce a cinematic image by any means. Also remember that these cameras have rolling shutters. I'm not a fan of that but I am a fan of spending 1/3 the price of a body with a global shutter.

Not trying to be sarcastic. There are a lot of people who complain that cinema cameras don't have continuous AF or vertical shooting modes or panorama stitching or direct uploads to the IG. You don't buy a Ferrari to haul firewood and you don't buy a cinema camera for run and gun.

Please upload a clip to show us what you mean. Are all words without mean if you not fix with a picture.
Arri is not a light handheld camera, usually is shoulder cam, and had less reading time than 6k.
Red is heavier than pocket then it stabilise a bit more, and have different reading time (and different camera had different sensor, different way to read it from Rs to Gs).

I used many time pocket6k for handheld shooting, carefully used with weight, well rigged to stabilise it (often without gimbal) without big problems.

May be that micro jitter could be add from a fault stabilised lens? Happened to me with a canon ef-s 17-55 2.8 that follow me for years and ones take a small problems and stabiliser work to the opposite direction of motion. 100 $ official maintenance and come back like new.


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Please upload a clip to show us what you mean.

I too am having the same shaky footage syndrome and I have links to 2 examples. This is the same clip with and without Gyro.

I'm new to the BMPC4k and I just never thought the footage would be anywhere near this shaky until I got home and dumped it.

Also, what is the difference between shaky and jellow?

In DaVinci I tried literally every setting under stabilization and there was some that made it SLIGHTLY better. I swear Gyro made it even more shaky.

With Gyro:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1njOv5F ... sp=sharing

Without Gyro, "normal" footage:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v_EE4s ... sp=sharing

As many have pointed out, it is hard to precisely pinpoint what the problem is here. But from what it seems, you're encountering a compound of many problems.

The term "Jello" usually refers to the slow sensor readout (rolling shutter) and objects in movement shifting while it is done, creating the appearance of warped and bent objects. This happens even without any kind of jitters or shaking; the shot may be very smooth and stable, but the stationary objects will still appear crooked in motion. A good example is shooting out of a moving car.

No stabilization can fix this, because in such cases the camera itself is not considered moving; the accelerometer in the camera only detects acceleration, not movement in a fixed velocity. The correct way to "fix" this is to manually apply skew to the image.

Micro-jitters and shakiness are a separate problem. A smaller and lighter camera handheld will introduce more shakiness, while a heavier camera has much more inertia and will resist such jitters. Many cinematographers add weights to a lighter camera for this exact reason. The jitters and shakiness can cause the jello effect, as it is motion, but are still separate.

Another thing you might want to check for is motion blur. With a lower framerate, image stabilization in post often looks bad because while stabilization attempts to remove the motion in the image, and successfully does so in effect, the motion blur that was incurred from the original movement is retained. As a result, you have objects in your frame streaking and blurring, even while not moving.

There are some ways to keep the camera light and avoid the jittery feeling.

- Don't put an external monitor on top of a handle. You want to keep the lens near the rig's center of gravity. Top heavy cameras wobble in your hands and the jitter is your hands constantly trying to compensate.
- If you have a cage and handles, mount the handles high on the cage or use extensions to put your grip just above the center of gravity.
- Similarly you can offset the grip so that it can rest against your forearm while your hand holds the handle.

Large cameras have more mass and wider grips, and the mass is not concentrated in a small area. You can try to spread the weight out and even add weight to make it more stable for handheld.

You also can try to use a neck strap or shoulder rig to have 3 points of contact on your body, or hold the camera body to your chest.

There is no simple solution .. Even for shooting Still Photography on my EOS 5D 's cameras , I prefer using the BGe11 Grip .. more weight , then more stable , more convenient , and more pleasant , even for stills ..

With a Small Motion Picture Cam. , the first most sensible and difficult thing is to keep the Image Horizontal .. I mean on the " Roll " axis .. The " Pitch " axis is also sensible but a bit less of a problem ,

If you think about what is a STEADYCAM ... You have a vertical Sled , you install the Camera on the top , and at the Bottom , you put some well balanced weight . So you have a long vertical arm , you have to hold it at the right place on the sled to get a good " Balance " . With that vertical arm , the Horizontality is much easier to keep .. on the Roll axis and also on the Pitch axis ..

You could just try with a Monopod .. you place some well balanced weight at the bottom, a monitor and a battery for instance .. , and you install the Cam on top .. you try to find the right place to hold it , and you'll realize it's much easier to keep the image stable ..

Of course , it is a bit Bulky ( vertically ).. and a bit heavier also ..

If you know someone around with some Tools , you even can Make a Real Steadycam .. You adjust the " Drop Time " , to get a good balance between vertical static and dynamic stability , .. it's a compromise ..

Well , it seems I have reinvented the Wheel .... but the Idea is not that bad .. with some practice , you'll understand ..
Just my Two Euros ... Good Luck .

Regards / Mike

I guess what's disappointing is that the camera isn't naturally more stable.

It seems like the best method is the gimbal but I need to do research on my MFT adapter because something keeps telling me that might have something to do with it

I do not believe in Stabilization by Software ..

A solution is to use The Force of Inertia .. You could use a Baseplate with two long rods , maybe one foot long , or even more , and put some weight on a Rear Position , for instance a V-Mount Battery .. or other accessories .. It would much improve the longitudinal stability .. Then you install a Handle on the right , it would be more efficient ..

A Gimbal is a simple solution , it gives perfect images . Some people prefer the Steadycam , more instinctive and more natural .. a Gimbal gives a perfect , but a bit " Robotized " motion ..

Regards / Mike ..

I do not believe in Stabilization by Software ..

Gyro is not simply stabilization by software, it's based on physical data.

Yes , OKAY ULI , it ' s possible to use Datas coming from Accelerometers , Gyroscopes , maybe even Gps modules .. i should Check by myself .. Post processing is very efficient , and necessary , but I think it is always better if the Images are perfect Out of the Camera . ( maybe I am wrong .. )

Just the good old technique , purely mechanical , using Inertia ..

In the past , existed a system with two small but very heavy Wheels , spinning very very fast ( maybe a compressed air engine ) , attached to the camera , making it very steady .. thanks to the Gyroscopic Force ..

The Old School ... no AI ...

Have Fun , Take Care / Regards / Mike ..

I totally agree that attacking the issue at the root is best. Steadicam, gimbal, enough weight, what ever floats your boat. But I found that if you have gyro data the stabilisation is much better than all software methods based on pure image analysis.
If your camera or lens is not supporting gyro, use Gyroflow with an external device (even a smartphone).

I totally agree that attacking the issue at the root is best. Steadicam, gimbal, enough weight, what ever floats your boat. But I found that if you have gyro data the stabilisation is much better than all software methods based on pure image analysis.
If your camera or lens is not supporting gyro, use Gyroflow with an external device (even a smartphone).

Most of the posts I've seen seem to be centered around solutions with 1 of 2 things: 1) software, ie, gyro stabilization in DaVinci, or 2) using a gimbal or other such device.

Are you guys in agreement that the solution cannot be found outside of those 2? And to be very specific: the solution being found with the camera, the adapter or the lens or a combination of the 3.

Well, a stabilised lens can help, but most of them are optimised for stills and can exhibit strange side effects when moving the camera. Care to further explain what you are thinking of?

I rarely do post stabilisation. I was about to write never but there’s always exceptions.
I never use stabilised lenses.
I rarely use in-camera / IBIS.

Most of this comes to SKILL and lack of understanding about how to set up a camera for good hand held shots.

There are many techniques that can improve the success rate of hand held shots…for example, never try to hold a 100% static shot. If you hold you hand out in front of you, your hands will always shake a little. But if you move then very slowly they won’t. So if your hand held shot is always moving *slightly* then it will often appear more stable than if you just try to imitate a block of concrete and stand still…and the WAY you hold it counts for a lot. If you hold a chair out by the leg in front of you arms extended then you most likely won’t last more than a few seconds. If you bring the chair close to you body and hold it inverted you can likely hold it for a long time. Just basic human mechanics that I don’t see anyone talking about.

There is no single magic trick. A global shutter helps (Komodo) but just as important is technique.

Small camera with a small mass you hold in front of you is asking for trouble.

JB

Well, a stabilised lens can help, but most of them are optimised for stills and can exhibit strange side effects when moving the camera. Care to further explain what you are thinking of?

I'm just shooting standard footage and when I'm moving around it's of course "shaky" but when I dump the footage it's super shaky. To the point where I would have to have been purposely shoving the camera up and down type of thing.

I tried using different options in DaVinci under stabilization but it didn't seem to help, in fact, the gyro option I swore made it worse.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1njOv5F ... drive_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v_EE4s ... drive_link

Are you guys in agreement that the solution cannot be found outside of those 2?

The lighter the setup, the more important the distribution of weight to reduce jitter as much as possible.
I found the Pocket line body needs rigging to create a center of gravity in the right spot - like most small and lightweight cameras.

Are you guys in agreement that the solution cannot be found outside of those 2?

The lighter the setup, the more important the distribution of weight to reduce jitter as much as possible.
I found the Pocket line body needs rigging to create a center of gravity in the right spot - like most small and lightweight cameras.

gimbal and... ?

There is no single magic trick.
JB

And a lot of little ones.

It can be done. I threw my P6K gen 1 in my backpack, on a motorcycle. Handheld 100%, no supports of any kind, a single lens, just the neck strap and a foldable screen hood. See what you think. (It also upscaled very nicely to 8K, and is in HDR if you are inclined to watch it that way.)