Talking Head Audio?

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videoguy

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Talking Head Audio?

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 7:49 am

Hey Fellow BM-ers.

As I am now "part of the family" and waiting on my BMCCs... I thought it is time to get a heads up on audio.

As you all no doubt know from my essentially spamming the forum with questions, I am going to be doing "talking head" videos... videos of people working (ie, a mechanic installing a tire, etc.) and whatnot...

I was originally looking to go the wireless lav route... but I've been reading a lot about the superior quality of 1) wired vs wireless, and 2) shotgun vs lav....

With that said, what are your thoughts?

I was thinking that with talking head, for the most part, people are going to be stationary... so can I just put a boom mic on a boom STAND and leave it stationary?

What are your thoughts?

Thanks again for all your help.


EDIT:

PS- If it matters, I already have a Zoom H6 I got. So if that affects things one way or the other let me know!
Last edited by videoguy on Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 7:57 am

Of course. I do that quite often, but I usually use both a lav and a shotgun on a mic stand for interviews. You don't HAVE to do that, and you could quite easily use a 2nd shotgun if you wanted a backup track, but the advantage of lava is that they capture less room echo because you can get them closer to the speaker's lips than you can a shotgun, so you can have the gain set lower.
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Chris Hocking

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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 8:05 am

This thread has lots of useful information in regards to pre-amps, etc:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15001

A good quality microphone on a boom will nearly always sound heaps better than a lav - however microphone placement is incredibly important (i.e the microphone needs to be a foot or two above the talent - NOT on the camera). Putting a boom mic on a stand is always a bit risky, because if the talent moves, they'll be slightly off-axis.

If however you're doing everything solo run-and-gun - then wireless lapels definitely make the most sense.

As long as you buy decent gear - most wireless transmitters sound pretty much exactly the same as cable.

Personally, if I was doing everything solo - I'd have both options as a backup. Put a decent microphone (i.e. Sanken CS3e) on a stand, then a decent wireless lapel (i.e. Sanken COS11) on the talent. If you're only doing tripod work, then the Sound Devices MixPre-D is a good option if you want to record straight to camera - otherwise, something like a Sound Devices 702T would be a good option (and get a cable made so you can send timecode and a guide track to the BMCC for syncing purposes).
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videoguy

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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 8:25 am

Reading through now!

I just modified my OP to make note that I am using an H6 and not recording "straight" into the BMCC... if that matters.

I've been looking at the MKE600... is that a good mic for my purposes? Is the NTG-3 "a lot better" or is the MKE600 going to be enough?

How much "movement" is ok for a book? Do you mean that if they move to the side or walk around it matters... or if they **** their head to the side it will throw things off? whats the tolerance?
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videoguy

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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 6:38 pm

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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 8:07 pm

"Talking head" videos most often involve the talent/subject sitting or standing in one spot and not moving around much. In these situations a wired mic (lav or boom) is practical & effective, especially for a one-person crew.

In the case of a one-person crew covering a subject who's moving around while performing a task in a noisy environment, such as a mechanic installing a tire: A wireless lav will typically be the best type of mic to use to get a good voice recording in this situation.

A wired lav's wire would get in their way and could be unsafe. A cam-mounted or stand/boom-mounted mic will usually be too far away from their mouth to get a good recording in a noisy environment.
Last edited by Peter J. DeCrescenzo on Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rado Stefanov

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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 8:38 pm

[quote="Chris Hocking"]
As long as you buy decent gear - most wireless transmitters sound pretty much exactly the same as cable.
quote]
Seriously???
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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 8:42 pm

VideoGuy wrote:Hey Fellow BM-ers.

As I am now "part of the family" and waiting on my BMCCs... I thought it is time to get a heads up on audio.

As you all no doubt know from my essentially spamming the forum with questions, I am going to be doing "talking head" videos... videos of people working (ie, a mechanic installing a tire, etc.) and whatnot...

I was originally looking to go the wireless lav route... but I've been reading a lot about the superior quality of 1) wired vs wireless, and 2) shotgun vs lav....

With that said, what are your thoughts?

I was thinking that with talking head, for the most part, people are going to be stationary... so can I just put a boom mic on a boom STAND and leave it stationary?

What are your thoughts?

Thanks again for all your help.


EDIT:

PS- If it matters, I already have a Zoom H6 I got. So if that affects things one way or the other let me know!


Are you going to hide a lav or have it exposed?
If you don't mind seeing lav in the frame go with a wired Lav. Easier to set up and carry around.
If you don't want to see the mic in the frame go with a boom mic, boom pole, boom holder and a C-Stand.
Hiding lavs is an art that you learn with time and experience.
Rado Stefanov
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Chris Hocking

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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 9:21 pm

Rado wrote:Seriously???


We did some tests a while back comparing a Zaxcom TRX742 and Lectrosonics HM to a cable connection, and to the human ear on studio monitors, none of the people we showed could hear the difference. Even the cheaper Sennheiser gear sounded pretty good - although you do get what you pay for.

It all depends on what microphones you're using, what you're recording to, and WHERE you're recording.

If you're recording device is a Zoom or a BMCC - then seriously, I doubt any professional will be able to HEAR the difference between a DECENT wireless system and a cabled mic.

If you're using the very best microphones and very best recorders in a really good environment for recording, then you might notice a very, very slight edge from cable over wireless even with the very best wireless systems. But in the real world, for people that are working with camera's costing less than $2K - I think it's a bit of a non-issue.

Wireless obviously has lots of other disadvantages compared to simply running an single XLR and plugging it in, but in terms of sheer audio quality - I definitely wouldn't be afraid of using a TRX742 on my boom pole. If I'm using the BMCC as my recorder - I'd probably still be comfortable using a cheap Sennheiser system.

My 2c.
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videoguy

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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostFri Jan 03, 2014 7:23 am

Hi everyone!

Dying for more news!

I've been looking at the MKE600... is that a good mic for my purposes? Is the NTG-3 "a lot better" or is the MKE600 going to be enough?
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videoguy

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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostFri Jan 03, 2014 8:10 am

Geoff Baxter wrote:
Chris Hocking wrote:If I'm using the BMCC as my recorder - I'd probably still be comfortable using a cheap Sennheiser system.


Are you referring that presentation Sennheiser radio mike system, the one at around $350 odd?

I wondered about that one, it is hard to conceive that Sennheiser would actually make a bad product.


Thats the MKE 600. I'm currently between that and the Rode NT-3.

Thoughts?
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Rado Stefanov

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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostFri Jan 03, 2014 8:15 am

Chris Hocking wrote:
Rado wrote:Seriously???


We did some tests a while back comparing a Zaxcom TRX742 and Lectrosonics HM to a cable connection, and to the human ear on studio monitors, none of the people we showed could hear the difference. Even the cheaper Sennheiser gear sounded pretty good - although you do get what you pay for.

It all depends on what microphones you're using, what you're recording to, and WHERE you're recording.

If you're recording device is a Zoom or a BMCC - then seriously, I doubt any professional will be able to HEAR the difference between a DECENT wireless system and a cabled mic.

If you're using the very best microphones and very best recorders in a really good environment for recording, then you might notice a very, very slight edge from cable over wireless even with the very best wireless systems. But in the real world, for people that are working with camera's costing less than $2K - I think it's a bit of a non-issue.

Wireless obviously has lots of other disadvantages compared to simply running an single XLR and plugging it in, but in terms of sheer audio quality - I definitely wouldn't be afraid of using a TRX742 on my boom pole. If I'm using the BMCC as my recorder - I'd probably still be comfortable using a cheap Sennheiser system.

My 2c.

As a trx742 user my self I agree that digital wireless combined with the extra dynamic range provided by never clip is as close to cable as possible. But still not as good as cable. I might find it difficult to hear the difference between using trx742 and cable but HM and other manufacturers are far away from good all wired going in to my 137db dynamic range input...
Rado Stefanov
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videoguy

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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostFri Jan 03, 2014 8:55 pm

Hmm...

Anyone else have thoughts?
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostFri Jan 03, 2014 9:41 pm

VideoGuy wrote:... the MKE 600. I'm currently between that and the Rode NT-3. Thoughts?


Both will be OK (obviously not the best, but OK) for a variety of applications when mounted on a camera, or on a stand or boom-pole.

As long as you understand that they don't replace a wired or wireless lav mic.

You gave the example of a mechanic installing a tire, presumably while the mechanic is talking, and your wanting to get a good intelligible recording of the mechanic's voice. Especially for a 1-person video crew, that's an ideal application for a wireless lav mic.

If most of your shooting will be of someone talking while they perform a task, especially if they'll often not be sitting in one spot or working with equipment, tools, etc. especially if it's not a dead-quiet environment, then a wired or wireless lav will yield a better recording of their voice than a cam-mounted or stand-mounted mic. Of the two, a wireless lav may be safer (no wires to trip over or get caught in equipment/tools/materials).

-
Last edited by Peter J. DeCrescenzo on Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bhook

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Re: Talking Head Audio?

PostFri Jan 03, 2014 9:44 pm

I've always run a wireless lav with an occasional NTG-2 (I sometimes get the luxury of a person for the boom pole) on my C100 but I got burned with some interference at my last shoot so I bought one of these:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/327246-REG/Ambient_Recording_EMP5S_P48_Electret_Converter_for.html

and plan to hard wire the lav when possible. Anyone recommend a very thin and light but durable 15' XLR cable? Weight is a constant problem for me as I usually have to fly to my gigs.

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