BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

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robreed

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BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 12:39 pm

Hi
Ive been shooting with both my BMPCC and BMCC for a while, and have yet to produce such sharp images that you see on various sites.
Up until now I have not used any post SHARPENING. Its never mentioned much.

I have been using various Canon ES lenses and a Tokina 11-16.

Just wondering is the super sharp images from using the correct settings on the camera/lenses,more expensive lenses or do people use sharpening in post.

Hope this doesn't sound a dumb question.
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Ulysses Paiva

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 12:50 pm

You should use a bit of sharpening. Not much because in my opinion it degrades the image. But BMCC footage can hold a certain bit of sharpening very well.

Other thing is that if you shoot 2.5K and conform at a certain point to full HD in your post production, it will always look sharper. Thats for any camera. Every time you shoot something at a higher resolution and then conform it to a lower res, you will always get sharper and nicer images.
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Tom

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 12:53 pm

What kind of aperture ranges are you using when filming?

Do you ever go above f8?
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robreed

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 1:42 pm

Thanks
I shoot Pro Rez, cos my Mac pro will not handle resolve.
Varying apertures, but not usually over F4, usually much lower, especially on low light shooting.
Im no expert and finding my way with these cameras, after coming from Canon DSLR shooting which was always brutally sharp.
I know its a cinema camera and has that softer look.
I was just wondering how much sharpening would be applied and if it was something I was doing wrong.
Thanks again
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Tom

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 2:05 pm

robreed wrote:Thanks
I shoot Pro Rez, cos my Mac pro will not handle resolve.
Varying apertures, but not usually over F4, usually much lower, especially on low light shooting.
Im no expert and finding my way with these cameras, after coming from Canon DSLR shooting which was always brutally sharp.
I know its a cinema camera and has that softer look.
I was just wondering how much sharpening would be applied and if it was something I was doing wrong.
Thanks again


The Prores footage will sharpen up very nicely, but as none is applied automatically, you do have to add it yourself.

There is a big difference between sharpness and resolving power. Those Prores files resolve a lot of detail - but detail seldom looks inherently sharp. As such you need to accentuate the detail by using an unsharp mask or similar to make it look crisp.

DSLR footage on the other hand - has a low resolving power but a lot of sharpening which creates a sense of false detail.

I find the sharpening controls in Resolve to work well, but im sure you will see good results using other bits of software too.


If you are interested, if you post a good quality full resolution frame grab or two, I will apply some sharpening to them and give you the settings I used in either resolve or an Adobe product.
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 2:18 pm

robreed wrote:Im no expert and finding my way with these cameras, after coming from Canon DSLR shooting which was always brutally sharp.


It should be noted that it is usual in DSLRs and some other cameras for video for there to be sharpening done by the camera as it records the image. This results in a sharper looking picture.

If you arent applying any sharpening then of course a camera which doesn't do this is likely to be behind on sharpness.

The Toikina 11-16 has had some issues with the mount calibration on the BMCC, you can have this fixed on the camera. Something to do with the EF mount design tolerances, the inital set-up on the BMCC was within them but it appears to tight, so not all lenses that also met them lined up with it, the Tokina 11-16mm was the lense most commonly reported as having issues.
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Kofa

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 11:12 pm

Most videos have sharpening done in post. Also, having the main subject or where you want the attention to be in focus or sharper than everything else in the image. A shot where everything is in focus will not appear as sharp as when only the subject is in focus.
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Michael Tiemann

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 11:24 pm

There's another thing that contributes to the perceived sharpness of pro video: lighting. In a poorly (not necessarily dimly) lit scene, there's nothing to separate the subject from the background. Depth of field alone doesn't really do it (though it can help). Great lighting can make a world of difference. Pity it takes years to learn.
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostThu Jan 02, 2014 11:30 pm

If you shoot RAW 2.5K, you will notice a significant increase in sharpness. The debayer to ProRes in camera is a little soft. The debayer Resolve does is sharper. You can also use sharper lenses, but I shot much of a video I recently did on a Tokina 11-16 in 2.5K and it is noticeably sharper than ProRes. Since you have that same lens, try RAW, then convert it to ProRes on your computer.

If you can't use Resolve, your next best bet is Cineform or maybe After Effects, but I wouldn't recommend AE for this, as it will be very time consuming.
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joechiazza

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostFri Jan 03, 2014 3:37 am

Michael Tiemann wrote:There's another thing that contributes to the perceived sharpness of pro video: lighting. In a poorly (not necessarily dimly) lit scene, there's nothing to separate the subject from the background. Depth of field alone doesn't really do it (though it can help). Great lighting can make a world of difference. Pity it takes years to learn.

+1


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robreed

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostFri Jan 03, 2014 2:07 pm

Thanks Guys
Lot to think about….

Here is a screen grab ( Not sure if its the best quality).
Its flat…

Here is the finished video. It was shot with no budget.
And on You Tube.

Willow Song

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joechiazza

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostFri Jan 03, 2014 4:00 pm

robreed wrote:Thanks Guys
Lot to think about….

Here is a screen grab ( Not sure if its the best quality).
Its flat…

Here is the finished video. It was shot with no budget.
And on You Tube.

Willow Song


So is this what you are saying isn't very sharp?
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robreed

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostFri Jan 03, 2014 4:29 pm

Hi Joe
Yes its an example..
Just wondering if its sort of what is expected from the camera at source…and how much sharpening, if any is normally applied in post.
Thanks
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joechiazza

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostFri Jan 03, 2014 4:39 pm

robreed wrote:Hi Joe
Yes its an example..
Just wondering if its sort of what is expected from the camera at source…and how much sharpening, if any is normally applied in post.
Thanks

I think it looks really quite good. I personally wouldn't add any sharpening to it. A lot of people even use fog filters to take the harshness off of the digital sharpness. I think you'll find better results just perfecting the lighting and finding your style in color grading. What lens did you use?
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Michael Weathersby

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostFri Jan 03, 2014 6:01 pm

To use sharpness filters appropriately can be difficult to learn when you are new. First, you typically want to add upsharpen and not sharpen. You can set it so that it works are bigger areas of detail. You wouldn't want to highlight the natural lines on her face... That could make her look older then she really is.

Second... nice image.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: BMCC Sharp Image..Camera or Post Production

PostFri Jan 03, 2014 7:26 pm

If you shoot ProRes in film log mode, it's true that the footage looks like it has a veil in front of it. I've found that adding contrast makes the image look beautifully sharp if it's lit and shot well.
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