New Camera and Mount Upcoming ?

Atomos has developed a new 8k sensor. If they decide to make cinema cameras and does a deal with a major camera manufacturer for modern mirrorless lens mount that will be a real kick up the backside for BMD.

Ha.

Let’s pretend it isn’t weird that Atomos made a custom sensor (for millions in R&D) and then decided to not make a camera or show any images taken with it.

If “Joes acme cinema camera company” decided to use that sensor they’d have about two years ahead of them doing all the calibration and colour science work that clearly hasn’t been done.

Panavision made their own sensor once too. It never made it into a camera because they realised it was much harder to make a camera than everyone thinks it is and tried to make some money back from the R&D by spinning off the sensor. It also never went anywhere.

https://image-sensors-world.blogspot.co ... s.html?m=1

I’d suggest that the reason they are making this sensor available is because Atomos is in deep doo doo.

Atomos are currently suspended from trading, and face serious corruption and compliance problems. The stock has been suspended pending the results of an audit by Deloitte after “problems” surfaced with a CEO who is also currently suing them in the US.

Deloitte are refusing to sign off on their audit so they’re in deep trouble.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... 1681590858

https://petapixel.com/2022/09/09/former ... ies-fraud/

The specs of the sensor may appeal but there’s a mountain of work still to be done before it makes it into a camera.

JB

If I remember correctly, the 8K sensor was purchased by Atomos from Grass Valley.

I've been looking at the DZOFilm 2x Anamorphics that are being teased right now and as soon as I heard "pincushion" I thought, meh.

Man, most of the affordable anamorphics that hit the market the past years have pincushion distortion - major fail. I loved the look of the Great Joys, then I saw some indoor footage and instantly got claustrophobia.

The Viltrox actually look really great, which is strange as they're just 1.33.

I've been looking at the DZOFilm 2x Anamorphics that are being teased right now and as soon as I heard "pincushion" I thought, meh. If the streaks look 'weak' and there's no barrel distortion, I'm not interested.

I'm excited that DZOFilm has made 2X Anamorphic lenses. But until I see footage I will always hold judgement. I have good faith in DZOFilm as they have been doing an incredible job lately with their lens releases.

Atomos has developed a new 8k sensor. If they decide to make cinema cameras and does a deal with a major camera manufacturer for modern mirrorless lens mount that will be a real kick up the backside for BMD.

Yes. And this is one that might just going to be really kicking BMD if they just stay with Broadcast. But that seems to still be a long way from really at the moment. But there are others like ZCam and Kinefinity and that “I can’t remember their name” that is somewhere in Los Angeles county.

And yes I know they have been doing broadcasting equipment way before they did Cine cameras. So as they say, test the waters and go where there’s more fish to catch. That’s what is going on here, IMO. Of course, I hope I’m wrong coz I like their cinema cameras. But again, I can’t rely on one vendor as I can’t be sure if any new Cine products, which are more interesting to me as I am not in the broadcast sphere, will be coming from them eventually.

Nothing of note yet, do we know if there's anything scheduled in?

Nothing. No new banners up, no behind the scenes videos, nothing being seen on other companies videos that are setting up and happen to show the Blackmagic booth in passing. Nothing on twitter or youtube, nothing scheduled as far as I can see.

I hope I am wrong but it looks like nothing new is coming tomorrow. Hope is fading.....

Blackmagic just needs to start using modular PCBs in their cameras to enable them to be used in different form factors.

This image was shared to Twitter. That’s the biggest banner indication we have. All Resolve related. I’m hearing from people I know in Vegas that there is no new camera or panels.

Blackmagic has a presentation at 10am Vegas time on Sunday. We’ll have to see what is hidden within it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ZCam and Kinefinity are both Chinese companies and given the way how paranoid American politician is about Chinese owned companies, especially the grilling of Tik Tok CEO, if these companies get too big could face obstacle in the US and its vassal states on "national security" ground.

ZCam and Kinefinity are both Chinese companies and given the way how paranoid American politician is about Chinese owned companies, especially the grilling of Tik Tok CEO, if these companies get too big could face obstacle in the US and its vassal states on "national security" ground.

The bigger problem is the they don't seem to support their products.

They're a much riskier purchase because they don't have the infrastructure for even basic service. Everything is RTB and there's no local support. I think that's been the barrier to both brands wider acceptance. They've been around a while now and have made some compelling products. I've never run across one on set or in someone's hands though.

JB

ZCam and Kinefinity are both Chinese companies and given the way how paranoid American politician is about Chinese owned companies, especially the grilling of Tik Tok CEO, if these companies get too big could face obstacle in the US and its vassal states on "national security" ground.

The bigger problem is the they don't seem to support their products.

They're a much riskier purchase because they don't have the infrastructure for even basic service. Everything is RTB and there's no local support. I think that's been the barrier to both brands wider acceptance. They've been around a while now and have made some compelling products. I've never run across one on set or in someone's hands though.

JB

They are made in China though, so perhaps they can be made cheap and disposable enough to appeal to the large base of consumers who don't dabble in professional projects or need rigorous servicing.

But I understand the US position too. I, for one, don't think the world needs any more economic dependence on China...

They are made in China though, so perhaps they can be made cheap and disposable enough to appeal to the large base of consumers who don't dabble in professional projects or need rigorous servicing.

Isn't that already the case?

They offer a premium on features at a very competitive price. Thy've been int he market as long as BMD really and yet they aren't making much in-roads beyond their own domestic sales.

They will continue to be stagnant in terms of sales until they do abetter job of making their buyers feel comfortable about after sales support. Until they can establish a better dealer network with local contact points, they won't grow much no matter how good the value proposition is.

But I understand the US position too. I, for one, don't think the world needs any more economic dependence on China...

This isn't about the US. Sure it's a big market. But they aren't selling in Europe or even in Asia beyond their own "home" territories. And Americans have no trouble buying cheap Chinese made goods when they feel the value is there. There are currently no restrictions on sales in the US (or anywhere else) but they aren't selling as well as they could be.

JB

I had the chance to test about any camera I wanted for the German magazine Digital Production, from Arri to Sony.
But I never got to the other end of the alphabet. When I asked both ZCam and Kinefinity for a test sample, they didn't even bother to answer at all.

They will continue to be stagnant in terms of sales until they do abetter job of making their buyers feel comfortable about after sales support.

JB

And Kinefinity aren't even that affordable to warrant the risk.

After sales support is the one thing I feel there's the same huge gap between Chinese and western mentality as there was 10 years ago. Hardware has immensely improved in certain areas, service has rarely if at all.

And Kinefinity aren't even that affordable to warrant the risk.

After sales support is the one thing I feel there's the same huge gap between Chinese and western mentality as there was 10 years ago. Hardware has immensely improved in certain areas, service has rarely if at all.

Well, you can't generalize here. Aputure has been very good in the area of support for example.
And DJI seems also doing fine most of the time.
Or SmallRig and Tilta.

This isn't about the US. Sure it's a big market. But they aren't selling in Europe or even in Asia beyond their own "home" territories. And Americans have no trouble buying cheap Chinese made goods when they feel the value is there. There are currently no restrictions on sales in the US (or anywhere else) but they aren't selling as well as they could be.

JB

Their home market is big enough and they may not be that interested in market outside China, less so after any Chinese tech companies being successful in America faces protectionist. DJI survive in America because they are too big and too popular to ignore.

Well, you can't generalize here. Aputure has been very good in the area of support for example.
And DJI seems also doing fine most of the time.
Or SmallRig and Tilta.

Oh that's good to hear! I personally have only bad experiences but not with any of the mentioned brands.

DJI survive in America because they are too big and too popular to ignore.

I think you are misinformed.

https://ymcinema.com/2022/10/10/dji-has ... y-the-u-s/

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59703521.amp

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/ ... e-00070591

JB

But I understand the US position too. I, for one, don't think the world needs any more economic dependence on China...

I don't agree. The best product, support and value for money should be the list of prioity follow by environment and working pay/condition. America's restriction to foreign owned companies and forcing its vassal states to follow suite has less to do with national security and more to do with protectionalism. It was back in the 80s when America did the same to Japanese companies, what we are seeing now is a repetition of what heppened then

https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/how-us-prevented-japan-s-toshiba-from-becoming-no-1-chipmaker-62393

DJI survive in America because they are too big and too popular to ignore.

I think you are misinformed.

https://ymcinema.com/2022/10/10/dji-has ... y-the-u-s/

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59703521.amp

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/ ... e-00070591

JB

I know those news. America tried to sanction DJI but it is too big and too popular to ignore. Its politocian wil always try like they try with Tik Tok. That why ZCam and Kinefinty arent that keen on committing too heavily over there.

The US defense department has tried for years to ban DJI but ended up using it privately to train its troops. I don't work for the the US military and I guess most people here don't either so we are not banned from buying DJI. Like I said too big and popular.

Dependency forms mostly from raw materials, not products, and China does export a lot of them.
It's never a good idea to be too dependent on one country - I am German and my stupid a$$ government made us completely dependent on Russian gas 10 years ago. as they couldn't read Putin's plans despite the warnings of our allies.

Dependency forms mostly from raw materials, not products, and China does export a lot of them.
It's never a good idea to be too dependent on one country - I am German and my stupid a$$ government made us completely dependent on Russian gas 10 years ago. as they couldn't read Putin's plans despite the warnings of our allies.

And do you know who bombed Nord Stream?

Noone knows as of now.

Back to topic please!

Are there any announcements so far? Does anybody have links?
My knees are shakin‘

I really hate that my next affordable option for a well built form factor camera that has US support and is under $10,000 is going to be the Red Komodo. I'll be ordering two of them next week. So disappointed in Blackmagic and their inability to give their customers a roadmap they can use for purchasing decisions.

Oh well, at least you can edit R3D in Resolve.

I really hate that my next affordable option for a well built form factor camera that has US support and is under $10,000 is going to be the Red Komodo. I'll be ordering two of them next week. So disappointed in Blackmagic and their inability to give their customers a roadmap they can use for purchasing decisions.

Oh well, at least you can edit R3D in Resolve.

RED has a public roadmap?

RED has a public roadmap?

No but they have a camera that works for me today, and they actually do post items in advance to help "freeze" other sales. If I knew a few months of Blackmagic's pathway I could wait. But waiting for the "next big show" or whenever Blackmagic feels like releasing something doesn't work for any business....especially since they seem to have stepped away from the cinema camera business over the last several years.

I have personally noticed, without any authoritative knowledge, a slowing down of development at BMD. Resolve versions are slightly slower in coming out, new hardware products are more refreshes or mainly in the broadcast area. I think this is a general thing in response to the ongoing 'cost of living' crisis, rather than an indication of any particular lack of financial health at BMD, of which I can see no evidence. I've certainly pulled back a little in new product purchases, since the UK TV market, certainly in post seems to have contracted a little, after a pandemic boom, which I suspected would happen. A little more even than I've seen for many years. Commissions are thin on the ground here and budgets are being pressured downwards quite aggressively.

I think it's not necessarily a good time to introduce a range of new cameras, or even a radically redesigned single model. This doesn't mean or prove, IMV, that BMD intend to withdraw from the cinema line of camera products forever again IMV only.

No but they have a camera that works for me today, and they actually do post items in advance to help "freeze" other sales. If I knew a few months of Blackmagic's pathway I could wait. But waiting for the "next big show" or whenever Blackmagic feels like releasing something doesn't work for any business....especially since they seem to have stepped away from the cinema camera business over the last several years.

When ARRI released the Alexa 35 folks were waiting for over 2 years since the first rumors in 2020 or so. ARRi just released it when it was ready and in the meantime ARRI cinematographers just used the old Alexa.

I really wish BM would release a new cam today but if not I just have to look to any vendor in the market which fits my needs for new gear. And if there is a camera for my needs, fine! If there is no camera that fit's my needs, just wait or take whatever fits most...
Last year I bought a R5C because I do a lot of hybrid stuff and wanted to step into full frame. The camera is cool and fits my needs pretty well but I'm still in love with BM and their cams for a lot of reasons and will keep my Pocket 6K for interviews or dual cam stuff.

If they release a new cam today I would look at it very closely, read about it, sleep about it, read more about it and then I would take action in whatever direction.

Doesn't it anybody who want's to buy new gear this way?

I guess most people here don't either so we are not banned from buying DJI. Like I said too big and popular.

DJI are sanctioned.

That doesn't mean banned. Clearly they are still being used and are by a large margin the largest company making drones by market share.

Being sanctioned just means that US citizens or companies can't invest or buy shares in DJI.

JB

And it's official. No new camera was announced at NAB by Blackmagic.

Not exactly true.

https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/ ... JS382H5638

JB

Come on John...it's exactly true. Adding an OLPF filter and giving it a different name is not coming out with a new camera. It's the same camera.

Nothing new from Blackmagic in the camera area.

Does anyone know if they'll offer the OLPF separately for existing 12K owners? I'd imagine it's a pretty easy swap in the same way as installing a Rawlite OLPF, but I'm not seeing much info about that yet.

And it's official. No new camera was announced at NAB by Blackmagic.

Yep. Clearly focusing on broadcast. Guess my decision to move from my BMPCC4k's to a pair of panasonic S1H cameras was the right move.

Does anyone know if they'll offer the OLPF separately for existing 12K owners? I'd imagine it's a pretty easy swap in the same way as installing a Rawlite OLPF, but I'm not seeing much info about that yet.

I just watched the Blackmagic video and Grant did not mention this option. He clearly talks about the two different cameras as "with and without". My guess is that there will not be an option offered to existing 12K camera owners.

The firmware update to the Pockets is cool, but makes sense given the nature of use for those cameras.

The 12K OLPF is nice, but there's a lot of body improvements they could have made. The move to CFExpress would have been perfect. Plus so much more could have been done based on some of the requests made here in the forums, Facebook Groups, and lastly YouTube influencers.

But at least the 12K OLPF has Netflix Approval.

DJI survive in America because they are too big and too popular to ignore.

I think you are misinformed.

https://ymcinema.com/2022/10/10/dji-has ... y-the-u-s/

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59703521.amp

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/ ... e-00070591

JB

I know those news. America tried to sanction DJI but it is too big and too popular to ignore. Its politocian wil always try like they try with Tik Tok. That why ZCam and Kinefinty arent that keen on committing too heavily over there.

The US defense department has tried for years to ban DJI but ended up using it privately to train its troops. I don't work for the the US military and I guess most people here don't either so we are not banned from buying DJI. Like I said too big and popular.

Even worse, Skydio was bribing US politicians to ban DJI.

NAB 2023 seems to be a total snoozer in general.

Even worse, Skydio was bribing US politicians to ban DJI.[/quote]


Shhh its called lobbying

Ricardo Marty

NAB 2023 seems to be a total snoozer in general.

It seems that the days of the big show are over. Now it's all about a constant trickle of "new new new" by way of YouTube influencers. COVID was the nail in the coffin.

So the original 12k value has tanked, since you can’t upgrade it?
If so, it’s a bummer. The last several shoots the company I work for has had this format: 2x Pocket 6k Pros for interviews + Ursa 12k for B-Roll. We will continue to utilize this, but man would it be nice to upgrade.

Does anyone know if they'll offer the OLPF separately for existing 12K owners? I'd imagine it's a pretty easy swap in the same way as installing a Rawlite OLPF, but I'm not seeing much info about that yet.

I just watched the Blackmagic video and Grant did not mention this option. He clearly talks about the two different cameras as "with and without". My guess is that there will not be an option offered to existing 12K camera owners.

Blackmagic, beyond grips and mounts, does not provide upgradable hardware especially where you have to reach into the internal of the camera. So expect that the two cameras are going to have different SKU. But here is where the future for the original U12K will be. The price are the same. So if you’re buying a U12K today, would you be paying for the original or the new model? It’s a no brainer and in a matter of months the original U12K will be discontinued, together with all firmware updates etc. Just like the all the other BMD camera models before their respective replacements. That’s just the sad part of BMD business model. So don’t expect an OLPF for your original U12K. Not sure if you can get it upgraded with raw lite…. Might want to check with them.

Talking about firmware, it the P6K vertical resolution firmware going to work on the original P6k?

Rawlite does offer an OLPF for the ursa 12k, I have it in mine. It was easy to install, I’d be genuinely confused as to why BMD wouldn’t offer the official one as an upgrade.

I’d also like to understand the difference between the two filters, if any.

Adam - Tim mentioned in a Facebook post that it may end up being sold separately.

I'd still like to believe there's one more camera planned, or at least another revision to the 12K. BM must have spent a good deal of money developing the new sensor. My impression was that it'd be used (or at least a variant of it) on all their cameras going forward.

Sigh.

Despite numerous posts reminding that BMD announce products when it’s ready to ship rather than at trade shows you all work yourself into a frenzy and get disappointed at your own invented buildup.

The OLPF is actually a significant announcement. You might think not but here is why.

It’s the first time BMD have ever made their own OLPF. That’s actually a big change in philosophy. It also is a really important difference in the world of narrative CINEMA cameras seeing as every “high end” camera has one.

It means that BMD listened to feedback and made a significant philosophical change to their MO.

This is also the first time that BMD have altered the amount of IR cut on their camera. Since their very first camera the amount of IR cut has been “mild”. Now it’s a tad more aggressive.

It actually takes a long time and a lot of effort to create an OLPF. They are specific to each camera model.

So I’d like to thank those at BMD that worked on this project and the effort it took as well as for even making such a fundamental engineering design change. It’s but one of a long list of user requests and they checked it off.

I imagine you will be able to order this at some point as a seperate part for those that already have a 12k and don’t have a Rawlite already.

For those that have a Rawlite OLPF already, it’s very very similar in performance in both OLPF and IR. I have both and I won’t be changing the Rawlite options I already have installed.

Carry on.

JB

Sigh.

Despite numerous posts reminding that BMD announce products when it’s ready to ship rather than at trade shows you all work yourself into a frenzy and get disappointed at your own invented buildup.

The OLPF is actually a significant announcement. You might think not but here is why.

It’s the first time BMD have ever made their own OLPF. That’s actually a big change in philosophy. It also is a really important difference in the world of narrative CINEMA cameras seeing as every “high end” camera has one.

It means that BMD listened to feedback and made a significant philosophical change to their MO.

This is also the first time that BMD have altered the amount of IR cut on their camera. Since their very first camera the amount of IR cut has been “mild”. Now it’s a tad more aggressive.

It actually takes a long time and a lot of effort to create an OLPF. They are specific to each camera model.

So I’d like to thank those at BMD that worked on this project and the effort it took as well as for even making such a fundamental engineering design change. It’s but one of a long list of user requests and they checked it off.

I imagine you will be able to order this at some point as a seperate part for those that already have a 12k and don’t have a Rawlite already.

For those that have a Rawlite OLPF already, it’s very very similar in performance in both OLPF and IR. I have both and I won’t be changing the Rawlite options I already have installed.

Carry on.

JB

I do agree with John's view here. I think my main disappointment was that there wasn't any other changes made to the 12K body. Like a switch from CFast to CFExpress would have been very welcome.

Considering what I paid for the RAWLITE OLPF for my UMPG2 and the cost of the 12K without it and the cost for the RAWLITE OLPF for it I'd say that the UMP12K with BMD OLPF is a far better deal. It is a massive improvement that shows Blackmagic is listening because they will now be keeping to doing OLPF in house for their cameras.

This is a bit of an incremental update at the same time. I'm still positive they are working on the drawing board for other body design upgrades for their cameras. Especially for the Viewfinder. Again, it's an 8-Year-Old design that still works great. Mine is still working after 7 years! Although the power cable is coming loose from the body of the Viewfinder and I have electrical tape holding it on for security.

My only other disappointment was that there was no new Panel for grading. I may give in and invest in the Mini in the future. But I wanted something in between the Mini and the Advanced.

Yet, DaVinci Resolve updates are huge! Major!

Moving forward I look forward to what Blackmagic does still as I still love their cameras.

For those that have a Rawlite OLPF already, it’s very very similar in performance in both OLPF and IR. I have both and I won’t be changing the Rawlite options I already have installed.

Carry on.

JB

Thank you for sharing such clear and useful information.

In the release video Grant mentioned that the BRAW debayer was changed to account for the OLPF. Where does that fit in for those us who have a Rawlite filter in an original 12K?