Blackmagic Forum

Hi All,

While trying to squeeze the best possible footage out of my iPhone13 for month, I slowly understood why it will never be even close to a real camera. So I decided to look for a cheap used camera and a few days ago I found a BMCC 2.5k EF for 350€. It comes with a cage and three 240GB SSDs.
Because this is my first camera I have some questions:

* Which firmware is the latest. I checked the support page and it looks like 2.1 is the latest one, but I am not sure.
* Is there an affordable "all-round" lens you can recommend? I just need something to get started. I mostly shoot outside, animals, nature,...
* The battery is dead, which was to be expected, so I need an external solution. Something I should consider here?
* I have an HDMI field-monitor. Any chance to connect it to the TB output or do I need an SDI-HMDI converter?

I know, a lot of questions but I think this is the right place to ask.

SeldomSeenKid wrote:Hi All,

While trying to squeeze the best possible footage out of my iPhone13 for month, I slowly understood why it will never be even close to a real camera. So I decided to look for a cheap used camera and a few days ago I found a BMCC 2.5k EF for 350€. It comes with a cage and three 240GB SSDs.
Because this is my first camera I have some questions:

* Which firmware is the latest. I checked the support page and it looks like 2.1 is the latest one, but I am not sure.
* Is there an affordable "all-round" lens you can recommend? I just need something to get started. I mostly shoot outside, animals, nature,...
* The battery is dead, which was to be expected, so I need an external solution. Something I should consider here?
* I have an HDMI field-monitor. Any chance to connect it to the TB output or do I need an SDI-HMDI converter?

I know, a lot of questions but I think this is the right place to ask.

Willkommen Michael!

I am trying to give you some useful answer to your questions.

Firmware:
The latest firmware is AFAIK 2.1 but anything beyond 1.9 is ok, in fact my old BMCC is still on 1.9.3

Lens:
Having a smaller sensor you should go with a pretty wide lens for starters. If you want a very cheap but nice lens fitting to the BMCC I'd recommend the Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8
You have to look for a used one, as it seems they stopped manufacturing it as the EF mount has been on its decline for years now.

Battery:
I think someone on this forum found a replacement battery, you might try using the search function for this. But the internal battery only lasted for maybe 30 minutes, so you should look for alternatives.

One solution is this plate:
https://www.videodata.de/hedbox-hbp-npf.html
You can use it with two Sony NP-F style batteries to get combined 14.4 Volt

And this power cable from D-Tap to the barrel connector:
https://www.videodata.de/adapterkabel-a ... 0-5-m.html

The battery plate can be mounted onto something like this:
https://www.videodata.de/tilta-tiltaing ... -k1-v.html

which mounts via 15mm rods somewhere onto your camera cage. As I don't know how exactly your cage looks like I am only guessing if this is a viable solution. You might post some pictures of your camera.

Another solution is this:
https://www.newsshooter.com/2023/01/30/ ... -pd-power/

Monitor:
You can't use the TB port for viewing. It was only meant for connecting a scope software which is no longer available/working. Best to forget that port.

You could use a SDI-HDMI converter but then you have another device you need to power.

An alternative would be the Blackmagic Video Assist 5" 12G HDR and this cable:
https://www.videodata.de/blackmagic-cab ... 700mm.html

The Video Assist 12G HDR is very bright and viewable in daylight.

If you want to stay with your current field monitor then the Blind Spot Power Junkie 2 would be the way to go because it has USB-C power for a converter like that one:
https://www.videodata.de/blackmagic-mic ... zteil.html

What he said above.

+ A more expensive alternative for the lens : the good old Sigma 18-35 f1.8 Art. And a more expensive combo: Sigma 50-100 f1.8 Art for birds and stuff.

We also use a similar plate as the above, just with V-Mounts for a BMPC4K.

Robert Niessner wrote:Willkommen Michael!

I am trying to give you some useful answer to your questions...

Vielen Dank Robert
This helps me a lot, especially the hint with the Tamron lens as it fits my (way to low) budget.
I will not try to replace the inbuild battery but go for an external solution instead because I also need to power my monitor and the SDI-HMDI converter.
Surely I need to explore all these new options first but on the support page it says that they introduced compressed RAW in 2.1. Not sure what difference this makes to the "pure" RAW option but will find out.

VMFXBV wrote:+ A more expensive alternative for the lens : the good old Sigma 18-35 f1.8 Art. And a more expensive combo: Sigma 50-100 f1.8 Art for birds and stuff.

Thanks for the hint but I really need to stay within my limited budget. Also our animals are way bigger than birds

Hi Michael

I have the BMPC 4K and found a very cheap and reliable option for external battery.

I bought this from Amazon for $64 AUD: (I'm not allowed to post URLs, so just put these in the search bar)

ROMOSS USB C PD Power Bank, 50W Laptop Portable Charger, 20000mAh Super Fast Charging Battery Pack 3 Outputs & 1 Inputs Compatible with MacBook iPad Pro iPhone 12 Samsung S20 Switch and More

and this power cable from Ebay for $15 AUD:

USB Type-C to 12V DC 5.5mm*2.5mm 5.5mm*2.1mm Adapter Cable USB-C PD Charger Cord

Make sure you get the 5.5 x 2.5 PD cable as apparently other types won't work - but don't quote me on that

I find I can run the camera for around 5-6 hours and still haven't run the power bank flat and for less than $80.

SeldomSeenKid wrote:Surely I need to explore all these new options first but on the support page it says that they introduced compressed RAW in 2.1. Not sure what difference this makes to the "pure" RAW option but will find out.

Aah, yes - forgot about compressed RAW. That was an important and useful addition.
This was lossless compression like ZIP / RAR compression and resulted in around 30 - 50% smaller files without losing any quality.

When you import those CDNG into Resolve you can change the color science in the RAW tab from Gen 1 to Gen 4. Might make color work with footage from the BMCC a bit easier.

You might also have a look at the tool slimRAW which can convert those lossless compressed CDNG into lossy compressed CDNG later on: https://www.slimraw.com

Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 as an alternative to the Tamron. They should both be pretty cheap used.

I'll jump in with lens recommendations.

Tokina 11-16 or 11-20 f/2.8 - I sold my old trusty 11-16 recently, but it was a great wide option for the BMCC2.5K during the years I shot with it.

Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 - Works on the camera as I have tested it. Great mid-range option as I would often shoot between 24mm and 35mm on the camera with the old Rokinon Cinema Lenses I had in combination with that 11-16 Tokina.
Sigma 50-100mm f/1.8 - Has issues with iris control due to the lens being newer than the camera. At least last time I tested it I ran into issues with iris control.

Rokinon Cinema Lenses - Eh, they're a fine budget option. And, they produce a good enough image. I was happy with them while I had them. But once you move on you move on and don't pick them up. I sold mine a while back.

Meike Cinema Primes - Another option with good wide focal options.

Of note on CinemaDNG RAW after Firmware 2.1 and the Compressed RAW...

Before Compressed RAW : 240 GB = 30 Minutes of Footage
After Compressed RAW : 240 GB = 45 Minutes of Footage

Those are not exact, but rough estimates from my memory. It was certainly a nice improvement for card space and final storage space.

One of the nice things about 2,400x1,350 pixels is you got a nice oversample for HD. But also, if you wanted to crop to 2.4:1 aspect ration the math was easy as you could just go 2,400x1,000 pixels, which was still a great oversample for 2K Scope DCI: 2048x858

I owned, hence broke one and used 17- 50 Tamron lens but these are not very good build. weak mechanism, hence great optics.

I d recommend go with Canon 17-55 IS 2.8, as all around lens, optical image stabilisation is worth extra money on that camera if you going handheld.

Hi All,

Thanks a lot for all your recommendations and hints, I learned quite a bit during the last days. After checking technical specs and prices of lenses, here're my thoughts and conclusions:

As I will shoot mostly handheld, image stabilization is a must. It's a bit hard to figure out, which lenses do offer this feature but it looks like the Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 VC so far is the best fit for me. You can get them from 120€ on upwards on eBay. From what I saw on YT the VC does reduce jitter noticeably. All other lenses suggested in this thread (except cine lenses with fixed FL) come in for at least double the price.

I didn't expect that an affordable power solution would be so difficult to figure out and I have to think a bit more about it. At the end I need to power the camera, an SDI to HDMI converter and a monitor. Maybe I give up searching for a solution that gives me 3 x 12V and go for separate batteries. Its also a question of weight distribution and mounting options.

Best regards, Michael

If IS is important for you, get a Canon 17-55mm 2.8. It has the, by far, best IS of any lens I ever used for handheld work (including the mentioned Sigma and Tamron zooms).

It adapts to your movements fluently without the jerky, choppy glitches you will have in the other mentioned lenses.

Around 350€ on Ebay, maybe less if you find it from a private seller.

Hi All,
Just a quick update to let you know this thread isn't dead
The BMCC arrived a few days ago and appears in pretty good condition. Looks like a toaster and sounds like a lawnmower but besides that I am more than happy. Everything is working well and apart from a few little scratches on the housing it's in pretty good shape. I borrowed a Sigma 18-250 / f3.5-f6.3 from a friend and made my first shots and I was blown away when started grading them in DR.
Having only edited smartphone & drone footage so far, I immediately understood that this is a complete different universe. Using my iPhone I tried almost everything to capture a scene as I SAW IT but even with apps like filmic, log-profiles and hours of grading, I always had the feeling that there's something wrong. Using the BMCC and fiddling a bit with the settings, I was able to capture the atmosphere of the scene and just needed to fine-tune it a bit in DR.
While doing some research about lenses, I stumbled over a tool I found really helpful to come to a decision: https://dofsimulator.net/en/

To be continued...

SeldomSeenKid wrote:Hi All,
Just a quick update to let you know this thread isn't dead
The BMCC arrived a few days ago and appears in pretty good condition. Looks like a toaster and sounds like a lawnmower but besides that I am more than happy. Everything is working well and apart from a few little scratches on the housing it's in pretty good shape. I borrowed a Sigma 18-250 / f3.5-f6.3 from a friend and made my first shots and I was blown away when started grading them in DR.
Having only edited smartphone & drone footage so far, I immediately understood that this is a complete different universe. Using my iPhone I tried almost everything to capture a scene as I SAW IT but even with apps like filmic, log-profiles and hours of grading, I always had the feeling that there's something wrong. Using the BMCC and fiddling a bit with the settings, I was able to capture the atmosphere of the scene and just needed to fine-tune it a bit in DR.
While doing some research about lenses, I stumbled over a tool I found really helpful to come to a decision: https://dofsimulator.net/en/

To be continued...

Yep. I even use the 1080p BMPCC on projects that require multicams and 4K is not a necessity. It still looks better than most (if not all) 4K phones out there, even upscaled. An don't start me on drone footage...and all the oversharpening most of them have...ugh. Only Inspire RAW footage looks decent to me.

SeldomSeenKid wrote:The BMCC arrived a few days ago and appears in pretty good condition. Looks like a toaster and sounds like a lawnmower but besides that I am more than happy.

That sounds like the fan has an issue. You might want to replace it. I think there was thread about this a long time ago in this forum.

My BMCC EF is still going strong, even the internal battery still works. But it was from a very early batch when the camera finally got shipped - so probably Grant Petty himself soldered that little tank together

Robert Niessner wrote:That sounds like the fan has an issue. You might want to replace it. I think there was thread about this a long time ago in this forum.

I don't think so, it's running smooth but I didn't expect a camera to be as loud as my old Win7 laptop. The internal meter shows a noise around -30db. Will see how this works out with a shotgun and a field recorder...

Robert Niessner wrote:My BMCC EF is still going strong, even the internal battery still works. But it was from a very early batch when the camera finally got shipped - so probably Grant Petty himself soldered that little tank together

*lol* Do you know how to figure out the batch number or delivery date? Just to satisfy my curiosity.

Regarding the lens, my recommendation is to get the Canon 17-55 IS 2.8. However, this, the Sigma, and the Tamron are no longer being manufactured so you'll have to look for a used one.

Now on the camera. I had a BMCC and loved it. But I wouldn't buy one today. At 350, plus all the things, besides the lens, to get it to a point where it is practically suitable for long time use, you've already sunk enough money that would pay for a brand new BMPCC 4K. You will get more bang for your buck if you return the BMCC, don't get any of the accessories, and just put the money on a BMPCC 4K. You can even get a used BMPCC 4K for less and not have the headache of an old camera, albeit the BMPCC 4K has been around for a while (but still being sold in retail stores). You'll also have many choices of lenses being that the EF mounts are no longer manufactured. Last, BRAW is much easier to work with and consumes a lot less storage than CDNG. That's a big advantage as well.

Ellory Yu wrote:At 350, plus all the things, besides the lens, to get it to a point where it is practically suitable for long time use, you've already sunk enough money that would pay for a brand new BMPCC 4K. You will get more bang for your buck if you return the BMCC, don't get any of the accessories, and just put the money on a BMPCC 4K.

What am I missing?

Differences
-Dual gain vs dual iso
-SDI vs HDMI
-SSD vs Cfast/SD
-Cdng vs BRAW

In case of adding stuff, top handle for instance.
BMCC is the cage in itself. BMPCC4K needs a cage first, or you will rip the top off.

both:
-mft mount
-Prores

both need:
-Lens
-viewfinder/monitor
-battery solution

BMCC older technology bigger photo-site’s. BMPCC4K newer technology smaller photo-site’s. 0.64 μm vs 0.46 μm. Both capable of 13 stops.

Ellory Yu wrote:Now on the camera. I had a BMCC and loved it. But I wouldn't buy one today. At 350, plus all the things, besides the lens, to get it to a point where it is practically suitable for long time use, you've already sunk enough money that would pay for a brand new BMPCC 4K.

Sure, you need to invest in all these things that turns a body into a camera but I don't see where the BMPCC4K is the better deal. The only extra item I need is an SDI-HDMI converter because my monitor only takes HDMI. For 350 bugs I did get the body, the cage and three SDI cards.

Ellory Yu wrote:You will get more bang for your buck if you return the BMCC, don't get any of the accessories, and just put the money on a BMPCC 4K. You can even get a used BMPCC 4K for less and not have the headache of an old camera, albeit the BMPCC 4K has been around for a while (but still being sold in retail stores). You'll also have many choices of lenses being that the EF mounts are no longer manufactured.

Sometimes things that are no longer manufactured become cheaper before they become more expensive. I don't think that I'll loose a lot of money when I decide to sell the camera or the lens in a few years.

But besides all these facts, the reason why I picked this camera is because I felt in love with the pictures it creates:

Bunk Timmer wrote:What am I missing?

Differences
-Dual gain vs dual iso
-SDI vs HDMI
-SSD vs Cfast/SD
-Cdng vs BRAW

- BMCC is not dual gain. Its native ISO is 800.
- Does not require SDI to HDMI converter to connect HDMI monitors which the OP said he will have to get for his HDMI monitor. SDI is good tech but the SDI implementation on the BMCC is riddled with problems (just Google for it).
- You can use SSD via USB-C and not just CFast and SD. You have more flexibility and choices.
- CDNG files are huge. BRAW is just as good and depending on how the settings and production environment, produces better IQ if not as good as CDNG with manageable size.

Bunk Timmer wrote:In case of adding stuff, top handle for instance.
BMCC is the cage in itself. BMPCC4K needs a cage first, or you will rip the top off.

BMPCC 4K doesn’t need a cage. But I agree if you’re using a top handle, you’re better securing with a cage. I think that goes for both cameras because the cage is not only to be able to install a top handle, but for overall protection and rigging which both cameras should have.

Bunk Timmer wrote:
both:
-mft mount
-Prores

BMCC that the OP got is EF mount. But yes, both has an MFT mount copy and can shoot Prores.

Bunk Timmer wrote:
both need:
-Lens
-viewfinder/monitor
-battery solution

-Lenses is given. But with the MFT mount on the BMPCC 4K you have more lens choices while the OP has an EF and will be confined to EF lenses. Although this is no big deal or problem.
-Viewfinder or monitor is option. OP has an HDMI monitor. He will need to have a converter and that’s never guaranteed to work, and requires a power solution for the converter.
- internal battery is the Achilles heel of the BMCC. Once dead it will start having issues with the clock circuit. An external battery will not help with this issue. Once that internal clock dies, the camera is worthless. I have encountered this with a few BMCC in the old days.

Bunk Timmer wrote:
BMCC older technology bigger photo-site’s. BMPCC4K newer technology smaller photo-site’s. 0.64 μm vs 0.46 μm. Both capable of 13 stops.

Bottom line, BMPCC4K is newer tech, newer solution. 13 stops is good enough.

BMCC has nice IQ everyone who owned a BMCC, including myself, loves. No arguments there. But you can go the same with the newer BM cameras including the BMPCC 4K. It’s not the camera and photo-sites that delivers IQ. It’s the cinematographer who brings it out with their creative vision and skills. My 2 cents.

To the OP, enjoy your BMCC. It is a fun camera and I know lots of good filmmakers have made nice pictures with it. Best wishes.

Ellory Yu wrote:Bunk Timmer wrote:
What am I missing?

Differences
-Dual gain vs dual iso
-SDI vs HDMI
-SSD vs Cfast/SD
-Cdng vs BRAW

- BMCC is not dual gain. Its native ISO is 800.

- I believe it is dual gain, I am not the expert on the camera tech, but have seen this come up here on forum at least 10 times from there guys who are highly knowledgable and comparing it to ARRI system how it is implemented 11 bits to create total 22 bits and then output 16bits in camera and 12bits CDNG file.

Ellory Yu wrote:SDI is good tech but the SDI implementation on the BMCC is riddled with problems (just Google for it).

My BMCC is still going strong. Never had any problem. Nonetheless I followed your advise: viewtopic.php?t=25621#p188876

As far as your dual gain statement, I think you mixed up the bmcc 2.5 with bmpc 4k, which indeed doesn’t have the dual gain but you get a global shutter in return.

Bunk Timmer wrote:

Ellory Yu wrote:SDI is good tech but the SDI implementation on the BMCC is riddled with problems (just Google for it).

My BMCC is still going strong. Never had any problem. Nonetheless I followed your advise: viewtopic.php?t=25621#p188876

As far as your dual gain statement, I think you mixed up the bmcc 2.5 with bmpc 4k, which indeed doesn’t have the dual gain but you get a global shutter in return.

My apologies. I understood your statement as the BMCC had dual gain. Maybe it did but my recollection was it had iso 800 as its only native gain.

As for global shutter, I don’t recall the BMCC 2.5 to have that. My BMCC only had rolling shutter. I have the one with EF mount. Only the original URSA 4K ever had a global shutter. I had that too. But it’s been a while since I got rid of mine for newer models.

Nevertheless I will say the BMCC produced stunning colors and image quality. In the right hands, it can deliver cinematic pictures.

BMCC is dual gain sensor like the Alexa, that was its big selling point. And yes you need a SDI to HDMI converter if you are connecting it to a HDMI monitor, how else are you going to connect it?

The only thing that prevented me from using the BMCC more often is the poor rolling shutter.

WahWay wrote:BMCC is dual gain sensor like the Alexa, that was its big selling point.

Interesting. I guess I stand corrected on that. Do you remember what are the gain values that were native to it? It’s been so so many years since the last time I used it.

Dual gain not dual ISO, all the Fairchild BM sensors are/were 800 native.

Good Luck

Howard Roll wrote:Dual gain not dual ISO, all the Fairchild BM sensors are/were 800 native.

Good Luck

Yeah, just a native ISO at 800. Dual Gain sensor it is. The BMPCC is Dual ISO 400 and 3200.

Ellory Yu wrote:

Howard Roll wrote:Dual gain not dual ISO, all the Fairchild BM sensors are/were 800 native.

Good Luck

Yeah, just a native ISO at 800. Dual Gain sensor it is. The BMPCC is Dual ISO 400 and 3200.

The first BMPCC now renamed BMPCC OG is also dual gain. The current BMPCC4K and BMPCC6K is dual ISO.

Ellory Yu wrote:

Bunk Timmer wrote:

Ellory Yu wrote:SDI is good tech but the SDI implementation on the BMCC is riddled with problems (just Google for it).

My BMCC is still going strong. Never had any problem. Nonetheless I followed your advise: viewtopic.php?t=25621#p188876

As far as your dual gain statement, I think you mixed up the bmcc 2.5 with bmpc 4k, which indeed doesn’t have the dual gain but you get a global shutter in return.

My apologies. I understood your statement as the BMCC had dual gain. Maybe it did but my recollection was it had iso 800 as its only native gain.

As for global shutter, I don’t recall the BMCC 2.5 to have that. My BMCC only had rolling shutter. I have the one with EF mount. Only the original URSA 4K ever had a global shutter. I had that too. But it’s been a while since I got rid of mine for newer models.

Nevertheless I will say the BMCC produced stunning colors and image quality. In the right hands, it can deliver cinematic pictures.

The Production 4k which is in the same body as the BMCC has global shutter but only has a 1 ISO range (200, 400, 800)

What i strongly recommended for the BMCC is a good IR-Cut filter if you plan to film in sun or Tungsten light. The infrared pollution is the only annoying thing on this camera ( and maybe the visible rolling shutter if you film handheld)

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the hint. I haven't decided for a lens right now but an IR & ND filter is already on my list.

In sunlight you can even use it for the "I am Cuba" intro IR-effect with a filter blocking visible light.

Uli Plank wrote:In sunlight you can even use it for the "I am Cuba" intro IR-effect with a filter blocking visible light.

Yep, I know. I'll need an ND with IR cut.