48p BRAW recording (Feature request)

A lot of users will use cameras like Pocket 6K Pro or 4K for documentary work.

It is quite common to shoot in 50p (or 60p) while the delivery format is 25p (or 30p). The reason is that you have flexibility to decide:
A. keep some shots in 100 % realtime speed with audio (and throw away every second frame)
B. slow down other scenes to 50 % smooth slow motion effect

In a lot of cases the final videos are viewed on computer or phone screens (almost all consumer screens are 60hz or 120hz, almost never 50hz).
Playing back 25p footage on a 60hz display involves a lot of jittering (choppy playback). Shooting in 30p will solve this, but it doesn't look cinematic at all.

Playback of 24p delivery format on 60hz screens feels overall the best (has cinematic footage and with 3:2 pulldown doesn't have as much jittering as 25p). Also on new 120hz displays (like Apple ProMotion) you can playback 24p natively. The 25p footage will not playback smoothly even on a 120hz screen.

So overall 24p is preferred by a lot of shooters as the best compromise between cinematic feeling and smooth playback on 60hz screens with 3:2 pulldown method.

Currently we have on all BMD cameras:
30p -- has a news gathering feeling, too many frames, doesn't look like cinema movie
25p -- close to 24p but big problem with jittering on 60hz screens (computers, macbooks, iphones...)
24p -- overall best delivery format but missing 48p mode for 50 % slow-motion option

Therefore it would be best to have a native slow-mo option for 24Hz system frequency. I can switch to 48p mode through HFR. However this involves few problems:
1. I have to switch to HFR each time I will reboot the camera,
2. The audio is not in sync (it runs in 50 or 60hz system frequency) which complicates the editing process.

I hope this make sense and thank you for consideration.
And just for a refference, this clip has been shot with Pocket 6K in 50p. And it could have been even more awesome if it was gathered in 48p and then slowed down to 24p (less jittering on computer screens):
https://vimeo.com/kaco/volcano

While I support your feature request (and had requested it years ago myself), it is not true that 25p shudders on Apple ProMotion screens.

All my 25p content plays super fluid on my iPad and iPhone screen because it will adapt automatically its refresh rate accordingly.

Kim, the off-speed is not a good fix, especially for docu work, as audio will drift when recording in the off-speed mode.

+1

The request was As I understood "24p -- overall best delivery format but missing 48p mode for 50 % slow-motion option"

But good point the audio drifting, I have not been using the odd speed for normal recording.

They are asking for actual 48fps mode. It's no different from having regular 60fps.

While I support your feature request (and had requested it years ago myself), it is not true that 25p shudders on Apple ProMotion screens.

All my 25p content plays super fluid on my iPad and iPhone screen because it will adapt automatically its refresh rate accordingly.

Oh, I didn't know that ProMotion display can adjust its frequency. I guess this only applies if you fullscreen a video from Quicktime maybe? Hard to imagine implementation for youtube maybe -- you can still have two youtube instances opened at once and what will the screen do if one video is 25p and the other 30p? Or if there is any advertising flashing around the embeded youtube 25p video?

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To be honest there is a big difference in 24p, 25p and 30p even if you will keep the exposure time at the same value (let's say 1/50th). 24p can be played back at 3:2 pulldown on 60hz screens. Not ideal but at least the frames are being displayed at similar intervals. 25p is very messy (try to imagine how to properly show 25 pictures at 60hz frequency). 30p is of course okay but has another problem -- to me (and it's definetely not just me) it looks more like a BTS for film rather then the film itself.

I've tried blind tests with few clients and they can tell a difference when playing back 24p vs 25p on a 60hz screen.

I think that the implementation of 48p might not be that complicated, it's just not so well understood why it is so important. (While at the same time everyone was asking for 24p at times when most cameras could only shoot in 25 or 30p).

If it's for YT, I'd stick to 30 or 60 fps. You can't assume that everybody is seeing 24 or 25 correctly (just like you don't know which colours they'll see).
If I download 24 fps or 25 fps and play it full screen, Apple's ProMotion is showing it perfectly fine. I don't doubt it would do that for 48 fps too.

If it's for YT, I'd stick to 30 or 60 fps. You can't assume that everybody is seeing 24 or 25 correctly (just like you don't know which colours they'll see).
If I download 24 fps or 25 fps and play it full screen, Apple's ProMotion is showing it perfectly fine. I don't doubt it would do that for 48 fps too.

That's not quite the point. I know how 24p looks on 60hz screens and I like the visual, while I don't like 30p (not to mention that shooting 30p in PAL part of the world has another problems).
The only problem is 25p on 60hz.
I could overcome the problem by shooting in 24p, but I miss native 48p mode. Any many documentarists and wedding videographers will shoot in 2x delivery frame rate and then slow down in post. At the same time we need audio to be in sync in case we will not be slowing down some parts.

I think the confusion here is that a lot of people would use 50p and 60p modes just for acquisition while delivery is 25p/30p. And that's why I think a lot of people who wants to deliver in 24p would benefit from having a 48p mode with audio.

" I know how 24p looks on 60hz screens and I like the visual" that is fine if you make it for your self, otherwise, well up to you if you care how others see it.

I am not asking BMD to remove 50p or 60p mode. I am asking if they could add 48p. There is demand for 24p and I am explaining how 48p mode helps to people like me.

I don't think that all those productions who whot big movies in 24p did not care how others see it. Also while there is some jittering with 24p on 60hz, since all major movies are in 24p I think most people are just used to 3:2 pulldown.

But no need to argue here, I am really just explaining why 50p is not ideal and why switching to 60p also won't work. While I am trying to fix jittering of 25p/50p, switching to 60p will completely change the visual of my work.

I think this feature is now even more important with the latest release of a FF Cinema Camera that is limited to 48p in DCI mode.

Seems like now you have to shoot in 24/25/30p base nad switch to 48p through a HFR mode (so your audio will be off). For people like me, who just want to have the option to slow down the footage by 50 % (while still need option to have a 100% speed with audio) a true 48p mode will be really appreciated.

48fps may playback best on a 240 Hz monitor (refreshed exactly 5x per recorded frame). I believe they are available from some 4K television manufacturers. Would be interesting to see how that motion looks. Don’t need the BMCC6K to test that.

48fps may playback best on a 240 Hz monitor (refreshed exactly 5x per recorded frame). I believe they are available from some 4K television manufacturers. Would be interesting to see how that motion looks. Don’t need the BMCC6K to test that.

The thing is that a lot of shooters like me will end up in a 24p timeline and slowing down some/most of the shots by 50 % while still need some clips to be synced with audio and playing backin 100 % speed.

In this case 120Hz display will playback 24p video with 5x frame refresh frequency.

Also as mention earlier -- with the new 6K Cinema Camera, this will be the only option to have a highest framerate option in DCI in sync with audio.

Using high off-speed rates and then playing back in slow motion on a normal timeline may not sync properly.

And that’s the reason for the feature request.

48fps recording would be a great addition for the Pocket 4K also.
(I will continue to shoot cDNG for the unforeseeable future with the limitations that come with that, but for others who don't...)

With the announcement of the PYXIS camera I am following up this thread. Can we please get a 48p as a project frame rate so that we can have 48p with in-sync audio?

+1