Prores Color space is always REC.709 bmpcc 6k pro

Hi,
I'm new to Blackmagic cameras.

I just figured out that all ProRes footages I recorded with my BMPCC 6K Pro are in REC.709 color space, regardless of whether I choose film, video, or extended in dynamic range. Or at least QuickTime detects REC.709 color space!

I have read the manual multiple times and did not find anything regarding the color space settings.

Is there anything, perhaps, that I missed?

Many thanks and have a lovely day.

QT may see it in the wrong way.
But in DR use a CST and set it to the same parameters you used in the camera. ProRes is unfortunately not carrying this information.

The question is what should it be tagged as? The default 1-1-1 makes sense in the sense that it's default. 2-2-2 perhaps, but it tends to cause more trouble than it's worth. All of the tags are based around delivery formats, not capture. There is no support for bespoke camera log formats.

QuickTime_NCLC_Tags.png (624.64 KiB) Viewed 2980 times

The file is probably tagged as "Rec709 Color Space" but the recorded information on the file should display different gamma curves if you record in different gamma settings. If you set the camera to record a "Film" gamma curve, that means your footage will be Black Magic's version of Log gamma curve, though the file itself would be a "Rec 709 color space" file.

So the question is, as you change these gamma settings, do you see different gamma characteristics on the recorded files, or do the files all turn out the same with Rec 709 Gamma curve applied to them?

Maybe you have accidentally ‘record lut to clip’ enabled?

Maybe you have accidentally ‘record lut to clip’ enabled?

Read Mike’s post. Any Prores BMDFilm CST or LUT is going to assume 709 primaries and transfer function. If we’re going to use HDR that’s would be great but then log encoding is unnecessary. I’m ready to be done with log but for now it makes the most sense.

Good Luck

Thanks for all of the answers, and sorry for the late reply. I was busy testing and comparing it with BRAW. You're right; it has QuickTime and ProRes limitations, but the file contains Color Science 5 color space.

The Rec.709 values you are seeing in Quicktime Player (and apps like MediaInfo, etc.) are Quicktime NCLC metadata which, as Mike noted, only records values for output display color spaces and is not relevant to log recording on any camera, so the default 1-1-1 values get written. When recording in log you have to simply ignore the NCLC metadata. The Quicktime container can however contain any amount of custom metadata and BMD does add such custom metadata about the camera setting for color space and gamma, you just have to use a tool such as Resolve which will read that custom metadata. Open your files in Resolve and look at the metadata panel and you will see a lot of metadata noted about each ProRes clip, including the color space and gamma. The recorded color space and gamma will also appear in the "input color space" column of the media pool info.

CleanShot 2023-08-03 at 11.29.39@2x.jpg (544.32 KiB) Viewed 2409 times

If we’re going to use HDR that’s would be great but then log encoding is unnecessary.

Respectfully, I assume you mean for only direct to air HDR video. For anything recorded to YUV/RGB codecs and going through color grading in post, wide gamut log encodings will remain useful and necessary, regardless of whether the final output is HDR or SDR.

If you’re working with a 17 stop space log is unnecessary. Log data storage is more efficient than linear but that process is invisible to the end user. Raw log data is linearized before conversion to a log display referred space which is normally 709. I don’t imagine 709 is going anywhere for a decade or so as interlaced is still common yet interlaced displays have been gone for a while.

Good Luck

I did this test: recording in ProRes Movie mode but with LUT “Gen. 5 Film to Rec 2020 HLG” by blackmagic recorded in the clip and watch Media Info:

If you’re working with a 17 stop space log is unnecessary. Log data storage is more efficient than linear but that process is invisible to the end user. Raw log data is linearized before conversion to a log display referred space which is normally 709. I don’t imagine 709 is going anywhere for a decade or so as interlaced is still common yet interlaced displays have been gone for a while.

Good Luck

I'm having trouble understanding what you are saying here. What is "working with 17 stops -> log unnecessary"? What is "raw log data" and what is a "log display referred 709 space"?

17 stops as HDR end to end.

The linear data from a sensor is log encoded for efficiency. This data ls then relinearized before encoding into camera log formats.

Good Luck