Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

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sampofilms

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Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostWed Jun 07, 2023 4:55 am

Hello,

I have been trying to reach BM support without success using the form available on their website. I have also tried emailing their public email and twitter. I have a less than 1 year old Pocket 6K G2 which is overheating regularly.

I am posting here not to look for user input but am hoping to reach someone at the company who can address and assist me with the issue I am having and get am RMA process started -- I do not know where else to turn.

My original message sent to the support form:

I am noticing a chronic issue with this camera when recording takes longer than 5-7 minutes in length. The camera shuts off, without warning, and the power LED turns orange reliably at the 7 minute mark especially when in an ambient temperature 80 degrees F or above. I am recording using the BlackMagic Raw codec (Q3 profile) using an approved Samsung T5 SSD. I purchased this camera brand new in October of 2022 and have witnessed this behavior since I first bought it but the problem has gotten increasingly worse. We have noticed if a PA blows cool air at the camera we can sometimes get past the 5-7 minutes but inevitably the camera still shuts down wasting a lot of time on set and forcing us to miss important shots. I love your company’s philosophy and products but this experience over the past year has become an infuriating experience that is now costing me gigs.

Serail #: 9967605

Best,

Nick
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Jonathan Evans

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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostThu Jun 08, 2023 12:57 am

Which country are you in?
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sampofilms

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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostThu Jun 08, 2023 4:32 am

USA but I finally received a response from BM this morning after getting BBB to message them on my behalf.
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostThu Jun 08, 2023 6:12 pm

The camera shouldn't overheat.

In my experience they don't overheat and shut down. I suspect something else is happening in your specific situation.

I should hope and expect that BMD will take care of you, especially if you're under the 1 year warranty period.

JB
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostFri Jun 09, 2023 7:02 am

As noted in my original message to BM, the camera shuts down only in ambient temps 80 degrees F or higher. When recording indoors with aircon I have yet to see it crash mid-recording. BM tech support has continually asked me about which usb cables I am using and if the fan is running. I am using the original cable that came with the ssd. I have also tested multiple (approved) drives.

If the camera shouldn't overheat it will be interesting to hear what the fix is from BM given the evidence I have experienced in the field. I am still waiting to hear back from them and will post back any updates.
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostFri Jun 09, 2023 3:08 pm

sampofilms wrote:As noted in my original message to BM, the camera shuts down only in ambient temps 80 degrees F or higher. When recording indoors with aircon I have yet to see it crash mid-recording. BM tech support has continually asked me about which usb cables I am using and if the fan is running. I am using the original cable that came with the ssd. I have also tested multiple (approved) drives.

If the camera shouldn't overheat it will be interesting to hear what the fix is from BM given the evidence I have experienced in the field. I am still waiting to hear back from them and will post back any updates.



It could be a dry joint that is only failing once the ambient temperature is high enough for the thermals to change inside.

I'm not saying that's what this is. It's just that one area that BMD are particularly well performing is thermal performance. They don't overheat. They don't shutdown. No one has ever seen an "overheat" warning on the camera because they don't.

I've been in EXTREME situations with these cameras. Far far worse than what you're in. And they don't miss a beat. I know what thermal testing they do when they are designing the camera and they allow for some pretty extreme situations.

But there could be something else that's broken. Maybe the fan. Maybe some other component that fails with higher temps. I'm not sure you can troubleshoot it without sending it in. That's why I think it's something else, because they just don't have an overheating problem without there being something else going on.

JB

*Bad USC cables are the number one problem with these cameras. Have you tried recording to internal media?
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostFri Jun 09, 2023 6:51 pm

I had a micro with a bad fan and it wouldn’t thermal out until it got blazing hot, usually not for several hours of continued use. I’d probably be inclined to first check the battery and compare the runtime vs ac power. Battery voltage can drop dramatically under high temps, could and likely is, a combination of issues.

Good Luck
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostSat Jun 10, 2023 10:55 am

Thanks all. I am in the process of getting an RMA at the moment.

The problem became increasingly noticeable on two recent shoots: one in Zambia (with temps around 100 deg F) and a second in Japan (with temps around 90 degrees). In both cases it would reliably crash (screen goes blank and power led turns orange mod recording) by mid-day on a 6 to 8 hour day shoot. We tried swapping batts, connecting external power, swapping SSDs but none of that had any effect. If we cooled the camera by bringing into an air conditioned space or let it sit in an air conditioned car for around an hour turned off it would let us start recording again. If the ambient temps were around 70 it would never crash and we could fill up a drive no problem. This is why I suspect it is heat related -- could be poor thermal transfer or something similar. We'll see...

I'll update everyone on what needs up happening with BM.

Best,

Nick
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostSun Jun 11, 2023 8:23 am

Just for curiosity sake, do you have the camera rigged with accessories which might be redirecting the fan airflow around the camera and causing the camera to re-ingest its own hot air?
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostTue Jun 13, 2023 4:48 am

Nothing restricting the airflow where I see vents on the camera, no.
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostWed Jun 28, 2023 4:05 pm

Quick update after I sent the camera in to BM as an RMA. I was told by their tech support that they are unable to test the camera under the conditions where I experience the crash and have offered to replace the fan as a "courtesy." I asked how they determined the fan was the culprit and was told it was not. In effect they are unable to diagnose or resolve the issue. When asked if the issue always occurred in 90 degree heat I replied:

----

Yes. It never occurred indoors with aircon or outside when cooling the camera during operation. It always happened outdoors in 90 deg sun. In fact we stopped using the camera in outdoor shoots because it was crashing on every shoot reliably. We do not have this issue with other cameras (including other BM cameras) in the same conditions. Only this camera.

Nick
On 6/27/2023 12:43 PM, RMA Department USA wrote:
> Hi Nick
>
> In your experience, did this only happen while running in 90 degree heat with direct sunlight on the camera?
>
>
>
> Gilbert Lopez Jr
> Technical Support Representative
> Blackmagic Design Inc.
> www.blackmagicdesign.com

----

Next they continued to ask me to test more SSD drives -- which I have already done and noted in my original RMA request. I wrote:

----

Hello,

We tested 3 separate ssd drives all with the same outcome (camera crashes).

May I ask how you concluded the internal fan was the cause of the issue? Do I have assurances this camera will not crash anymore in the field then?

Nick


On June 27, 2023 1:58:14 PM PDT, RMA Department USA <rma-usa@blackmagicdesign.com> wrote:

Hi Nick

Our testing to confirm whether or not the camera is functioning properly generally doesn't include exposing it to 90 degree heat and direct sunlight. However, even though our testing did not show any problems on this unit, we will replace the internal fan as a courtesy.

We also recommend testing with a different model of SSD when you get this back to see if that helps with this behavior as well. We have run into situations where overheating of the drive causes similar behavior.

We will get this replacement going and let you know when it is ready to ship back. Let us know if you have any questions in the meantime.

All the Best

---

I pressed if I could trust the camera with a replaced fan in the same filming conditions and was told:

---

Hi Nick

In that type of environment (90 deg, direct sun), it is difficult to guarantee that you will not run into this problem. If you are able to keep it within the operating range of 32° to 104°F as listed in the tech specs for this device, then we would expect this to continue working.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... s/W-CIN-16

If you have this in the field in 90 degree heat, with direct sunlight on it, we expect the combined external heat, and the heat generated by the camera could possibly raise the temperature above 104, unless you took measures to keep it below that. If it does get above 104, then you would run the risk of seeing this same behavior.

Let us know if you have any other questions.

All the Best

----

I have never ran the camera in temps above 98 deg F. So it seems the camera is not suited or expected to work in 98+ F based on this response. I next asked for more clarification regarding the fan and it's inability to properly regulate the camera in these conditions and am waiting for BM to respond.
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostWed Jun 28, 2023 5:13 pm

BMD has apparently advised that the temperature rating limit refers to the internal temperature in the camera which is likely going to be higher than the higher ambient temperatures. Unfortunately they give no guidance that helps us know how many degrees are added due to the camera operation in high heat.

Since the lowest operating (internal) temperature is 32 degrees F or 0 degrees Celsius, we know the camera can generate a significant amount of heat as people do operate the camera successfully in ambient temperatures below freezing.

Hopefully the new fan does help and you’re good to go.
Rick Lang
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostWed Jun 28, 2023 5:26 pm

Hi Rick,

The replacement fan will not solve the issue I am facing and BM acknowledges so. I just received the following reply to my question regarding the internal fan's inability to properly regulate the camera's temp:

----

Hi Nick

It is our assessment that using this camera in 90 degree heat and in direct sunlight could result in the camera's temperature to rise above 104 degrees, even with the fan running. This would be especially true if measures weren't taken to prevent the temperature of the camera from reaching that level.

We will get this camera back out to you once the fan is changed. It is our recommendation that when this is used in 90 degree heat and in direct sunlight, that measures are taken to prevent the camera from rising above 104 degrees during use.

Let us know if you have any other questions.

All the Best

Gilbert Lopez Jr

----

Hence why they told me they are replacing the fan as "a courtesy." They admit it will not solve my problem and the camera is designed the way it is.

In fact, I am being told by BM that if I run the camera in 90 degree heat I must take extra measures to cool the camera for it to function properly. Published specs for the camera are one thing but my requirement as a DP to regulate the internal temp of the camera at the same time I am shooting is more stress than it is worth when shooting paid gigs. Especially given how little feedback the camera provides as it reaches the temp where it crashes.

I think it would behoove BM to advertise the camera with these limitations in mind so that others won't have the same frustrating experiences I have had using this camera for field shooting.

Best,

Nick
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostWed Jun 28, 2023 6:46 pm

Hi.

Sorry to hear you're still having issues.

I have operated this camera in temperatures well above the suggested numbers posted about here without issues.

But my setup had one important difference to yours and picking up on one of the issues they mentioned....

"We also recommend testing with a different model of SSD when you get this back to see if that helps with this behavior as well. We have run into situations where overheating of the drive causes similar behavior."

Have you tried using CFAST or SD media? Because as I mentioned, I've used the camera well into ambient temps of 110F and had zero issues, but I don't use SSD.

It could just be that the SSD is overheating?

I think if BMD have said directly to you that there's potentially an issue with using an SSD, then I think that's worth you investigating.

Given that the SSD is black and in the direct sun by the way you state you're using it you could also easily mitigate things by shading your camera (and SSD) when you're using it out in sun.

JB
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostWed Jun 28, 2023 6:51 pm

90 degrees? Yikes. Suddenly white cameras seem less like a fashion statement. These are available from camskns.com.

4CB0B75E-5B9C-4166-AFC4-1F5BDA1CB820.png
4CB0B75E-5B9C-4166-AFC4-1F5BDA1CB820.png (935.63 KiB) Viewed 1042 times


Good Luck
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostWed Jun 28, 2023 7:31 pm

Hi John,

I only shoot to SSD with this camera. Using the same SSDs on other cameras I have not had this problem so I cannot agree with the theory that the drive is overheating.

What's worth mentioning is the camera, once cooled with direct air and shade, in these 90 degree shoot conditions would return to functioning normally again over time. Because of this I suspect, but have not confirmed, the issue is with the camera overheating while recording RAW to SSD. Perhaps a fan with more airflow or more attentive thermal dissipation within the camera engineering would prevent this failure point. Either way BM support seems to suggest using the camera in 90 degree heat is risky at best. IMO I would look elsewhere for a small field camera if you intend to record RAW footage.

Best,

Nick

John Brawley wrote:Have you tried using CFAST or SD media? Because as I mentioned, I've used the camera well into ambient temps of 110F and had zero issues, but I don't use SSD.

It could just be that the SSD is overheating?

I think if BMD have said directly to you that there's potentially an issue with using an SSD, then I think that's worth you investigating.

Given that the SSD is black and in the direct sun by the way you state you're using it you could also easily mitigate things by shading your camera (and SSD) when you're using it out in sun.

JB
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostWed Jun 28, 2023 7:42 pm

Maybe test it out with a CFAST card to eliminate the SSD with this particular camera.

Then you know it’s the camera and you have a stronger case to go back to BMD and ask for an exchange.

I don’t believe the camera should be the problem here.

JB
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostWed Jun 28, 2023 7:52 pm

Hi John,

The problem occurs when using SDD drives recording RAW footage and is reproduceable in the appropriate ambient temps. If you read the messages I received from BM support they agree that running the camera in ambient temps above 90 can lead to issues and they suggest I take measure to cool the camera during operation. I do not see this as a workable solution. In other words: they seem to be acknowledging this is expected behavior (albeit not documented) for this camera model.

While I would love to continue beta and stress testing a released product -- I am not really interested in continuing doing so unless I was on BM's payroll at this point. :lol: After a month of back and forth with their support and the final answer being: "yes, it works that way," I have instead decided to sell the camera after it is "fixed" and returned to me.

Best,

Nick

John Brawley wrote:Maybe test it out with a CFAST card to eliminate the SSD with this particular camera.

Then you know it’s the camera and you have a stronger case to go back to BMD and ask for an exchange.

I don’t believe the camera should be the problem here.

JB
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostWed Jun 28, 2023 8:33 pm

Despite what BMD support are telling you about the operating range there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that they easily and regularly operate beyond those temperatures.

I haven't seen anyone else on various forums report the same issue if it is indeed reproduce-able.

These aren't extreme conditions so I'm sure this would have come up if it really was a thermal design problem.

That's why I don't believe it is, and that it's something specific to your setup. It's just not a known issue.

JB
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Re: Pocket G2 Camera Overheating & Cannot Contact Support?

PostWed Jun 28, 2023 8:38 pm

I do not doubt this John, but according to BM support the camera is operating as intended:

----

Hi Nick

It is our assessment that using this camera in 90 degree heat and in direct sunlight could result in the camera's temperature to rise above 104 degrees, even with the fan running. This would be especially true if measures weren't taken to prevent the temperature of the camera from reaching that level.

We will get this camera back out to you once the fan is changed. It is our recommendation that when this is used in 90 degree heat and in direct sunlight, that measures are taken to prevent the camera from rising above 104 degrees during use.

Let us know if you have any other questions.

All the Best



Gilbert Lopez Jr

Technical Support Representative

Blackmagic Design Inc.

www.blackmagicdesign.com

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