Canon EOS C100 Digital Cinema Camera and Atomos Ninja 2

While I'm (we all) await our BMPC4K Cameras, I was going through possible Alternatives not for 4k just for quality and came across this combo at 3d Broadcast. Canon EOS C100 Digital Cinema Camera and Atomos Ninja 2 Recorder, now I now you get similar specs with the BM2.5 but non of the quality issues some people seem to get with the BMCC.

It seems it would be almost the same as buying a C300 as they stated that the sensors are the same in both cameras. I know not exactly but close, it still won't have all of the features in the C300 but a good priced Alternative.

Anyone tried this combo? Want to share their thoughts.

While I'm (we all) await our BMPC4K Cameras, I was going through possible Alternatives not for 4k just for quality and came across this combo at 3d Broadcast. Canon EOS C100 Digital Cinema Camera and Atomos Ninja 2 Recorder, now I now you get similar specs with the BM2.5 but non of the quality issues some people seem to get with the BMCC.

It seems it would be almost the same as buying a C300 as they stated that the sensors are the same in both cameras. I know not exactly but close, it still won't have all of the features in the C300 but a good priced Alternative.

Anyone tried this combo? Want to share their thoughts.

I hardly consider that to be similar specs:

C100+external recorder: ProRes HQ 1080p Compressed
BMCC: Raw Uncompressed CINEMA DNG 2.5k

C100+external recorder: about 11 stops DR
BMCC: 13 stops

Cost of C100 body: £4000 + £550 for external recorder: £4550
Cost of BMCC (recorder internal): £1550

On-board sound and ergonomics are arguably better on the c100.

C100 has a larger sensor too - and some would argue better low light.


In my opinion (which you kinda asked for) - They are still two very different cameras even with the atmos ninja 2.

The price of the C100 is dropping. Be on the lookout for a replacement at NAB this year from Canon methinks.

I think the ergonomics and reliability are c100's strengths. A year ago, I was deciding between the c100 and bmcc and ended up with the bmcc as I am still yet to see either a c100 or c300 video that looks great. The colours (or lack of colour), dynamic range, and feel of the image all seem to be lacking compared to a bmcc or (the next step up) a red scarlet. I even prefer a 5dmk3's image over the c100's. However, I really think the c100's ergonomics and piece of mind while shooting are nice for certain projects.

Where is the BMCC $1500?

Where is the BMCC $1500?

I think that's minus Resolve. I went with a C100 when I could no longer afford to wait on my preordered BMCC (December, 2012). IMO, you can't remove Resolve from the BMCC equation because everything you shoot with a BMCC requires "fixing in post"...it's systemic to the BMD philosophy. My C100 is on the other side of that coin in that you can fully expect to get it right "in the camera" when you shoot.

Two different animals with two different goals. The C100 is fully self contained and is a pleasure to use. I shot a convention stage last week with hardly any light at all (the spill was killing the projector screens so they decided to turn off the lights). I did a black balance, kicked ISO up to 10,000 and held my breath. The results were amazing.

My apologies i was mixing £ with $

Have fixed it now.

Now that Canon has lowered the list price of the C100 it's started to get my attention.

But as Tom pointed out, even at current pricing, a C100 + an external video recorder is quite a bit more expensive than a BMCC + an external audio recorder.

Some people prefer color-correcting their footage in post, some people don't (or have no choice).

It's all good.

Meanwhile, yes: NAB 2014 is coming.

-

I know I shouldn't say this...especially with this crowd...BUT the 8 bit 4:2:0 AVCHD recorded internally on the C100 is MUCH better than you might expect. I pull decent keys with it in some less than optimal lighting. You would be hard pressed to see the difference between the 8bit AVCHD and the Ninja 2 in many cases short of some serious pixel peeping. I was told it's "the right 8bits" and that makes sense...you are trying to get it right when you shoot, not in post.

Also, I record 355 minutes on each 64gb SDHC card (these aren't the super fast ones either) and there are two card slots. I shot over 20 hours last week (continuous convention presentations in main tent) and the camera never missed a beat. I was also feeding an overflow room with the HDMI/DVI output on my C100.

Horses for courses and for the run-and-gun convention work I've been doing recently, the C100 is certainly the right horse...IMO.

Agree mhood, it is definitely the right camera for many jobs (especially live convention coverage). To me though, the camera looks like classic digital video. I am still willing to jump through as many hoops to get the best image quality for a reasonable price and the bmcc is that camera right now. I am still yet to see something from the c100 that is impressive (image related anyways).

I am still yet to see something from the c100 that is impressive (image related anyways).

In my opinion for wedding videos and other run & gun stuff I think the C100 is perfect. I think Jason Magbanua's wedding videos are beautiful - he uses the C100;
http://jasonmagbanua.com/films/

Granted I would prefer the BMCC for narrative work, but I'm sure you can get a good looking short out of the C100. I think this short film "Beyond" looks pretty good;

I own a BMCC and a BMPC and love then both, despite their quirks.

But if someone wanted to drop me into into the middle of Africa and said "go make a documentary on your own" I might opt for the C100. I really like it's form factor, battery life, efficient codec and lovely sensor. Even better would be the C300 for its robust build.

But if you have the time, inclination and crew, the BMCC does produce stunning quality for the price, but I'd be loathe to depend on it for the kinds of things a C100 can do. At the end of the day, shooting mode makes a huge difference regarding which camera makes sense...

I think generally there is a place and market for the c100 and c300 - but it is not the same place as the BMCC or pocket cam.

I also think that even after the price drop, the c100 is still a bit too overpriced.

Every camera has good and bad points, no camera is perfect.

People keep saying that these cameras (c300&100)are very video looking and not filmic like the BMCC but, films like The Cannes Film Festival top prize, winner Blue is the Warmest Color (aka La Vie d’Adèle) was shot on a Canon C300.

Nobody said anything about the c100 or 300 not being able to tell great stories, but Blue is the Warmest Color looks very digital. Great movie though.

I really hope next generation cams from blackmagic will be with doc style (arri Amira in mind ) it will be a great combo having already this 3 cam from 1st generation

They already have the codec , develop a better low light sensor and build a beast doc cam under 10k tag price

The C100 is a perfect doc cam if you own EF EF/s glasses,run and gun, small and light as a Dslr with a battery pack.
makes it perfect match with the 24-105 f4 is lens
I also own a bmcc 2,5k wich I use more for studio work or where I have much controll on lights , power etcetera ,they' can be matched easily side by side and you won't notice the difference ,since they both produce a very nice looking Image . Sure thing the 10 bit prores or raw it's a joy to grade and yes
the bmcc it's a fraction of the cost of the c100 ,but even if you rig her out with external battery , audio mixer , nds filters,evf, a rig etc etc.. (and start spending almost the same ,and becoming heavy..)
will be still limited on Low light ( try to expose at f4 1600 for a wedding ring moment in a church , in most cases you will be underexposed with a noisy image ) also no back up for your data In the ssd

I'm buying a second c100 so will be set for my wedding shootings

I really hope next generation cams from blackmagic will be with doc style (arri Amira in mind ) it will be a great combo having already this 3 cam from 1st generation

They already have the codec , develop a better low light sensor and build a beast doc cam under 10k tag price

The C100 is a perfect doc cam if you own EF EF/s glasses,run and gun, small and light as a Dslr with a battery pack.
makes it perfect match with the 24-105 f4 is lens
I also own a bmcc 2,5k wich I use more for studio work or where I have much controll on lights , power etcetera ,they' can be matched easily side by side and you won't notice the difference ,since they both produce a very nice looking Image . Sure thing the 10 bit prores or raw it's a joy to grade and yes
the bmcc it's a fraction of the cost of the c100 ,but even if you rig her out with external battery , audio mixer , nds filters,evf, a rig etc etc.. (and start spending almost the same ,and becoming heavy..)
will be still limited on Low light ( try to expose at f4 1600 for a wedding ring moment in a church , in most cases you will be underexposed with a noisy image ) also no back up for your data In the ssd

I'm buying a second c100 so will be set for my wedding shootings

In my experience the BMCC holds up to about 128,000 ISO before it becomes unrecoverable with NR.

still trying to figure out why this is not considered an off-topic post and is still in cinematography. While it is camera related, a few of my camera related rants on the bmcc issues have been swept to off topic to die un-noticed....yet this post, with a clear heading of a competitors camera is still readable after a week.

Perhaps it is because none of you have called BMD on any shortcomings. Of course, now that I have polluted your thread with my posting...don't be suprised to see it move.

still trying to figure out why this is not considered an off-topic post and is still in cinematography. While it is camera related, a few of my camera related rants on the bmcc issues have been swept to off topic to die un-noticed....yet this post, with a clear heading of a competitors camera is still readable after a week.

Perhaps it is because none of you have called BMD on any shortcomings. Of course, now that I have polluted your thread with my posting...don't be suprised to see it move.

I think perhaps because the OP has compared a different setup to instead buying a BMD camera, it is still relevant.

In my experience the BMCC holds up to about 128,000 ISO before it becomes unrecoverable with NR.

Tom are you referring to shooting raw at 128,000 iso? Because I've never seen a ProRes file be usable that high. Shooting raw you don't really get enough footage time on these SSD due to it not being compressed. I wish I could get an hour of raw on a BMCC without spending $2000 on a SSD

In my experience the BMCC holds up to about 128,000 ISO before it becomes unrecoverable with NR.

Tom are you referring to shooting raw at 128,000 iso? Because I've never seen a ProRes file be usable that high. Shooting raw you don't really get enough footage time on these SSD due to it not being compressed. I wish I could get an hour of raw on a BMCC without spending $2000 on a SSD

Skip to - 0:57 on this video A = ProRes B= Raw


A still of the video frame

ProRes


Raw

People keep saying that these cameras (c300&100)are very video looking and not filmic like the BMCC but, films like The Cannes Film Festival top prize, winner Blue is the Warmest Color (aka La Vie d’Adèle) was shot on a Canon C300.

I think its already past the time we (filmmakers around the world) stop defining or classifying movies acordding to the camera and gear used.

Its time we learn to look at the results, whatever gear used. I already have seen **** shot on RED and very touching videos shot on DSLR.

still trying to figure out why this is not considered an off-topic post and is still in cinematography. While it is camera related, a few of my camera related rants on the bmcc issues have been swept to off topic to die un-noticed....yet this post, with a clear heading of a competitors camera is still readable after a week.

Perhaps it is because none of you have called BMD on any shortcomings. Of course, now that I have polluted your thread with my posting...don't be suprised to see it move.

I was just looking into an affordable alternative to a fully loaded Black Magic Camera, a cam that could be used in most situations. Also It was to try and talk about, camera tech, statistics and possibilities of the cameras we work with. Instead of people just moaning about things that are out of our control, like shipping dates.

There's one thing that's worrying me about the new BMPC. Sensor issues, with blooming and black holes, we've already seen black holes in the first lot of footage with the 4k. so that's why I'm looking for a good Alternative. Anyone got any thoughts on other camera? (not DSLRs)

Tom are you referring to shooting raw at 128,000 iso? Because I've never seen a ProRes file be usable that high. Shooting raw you don't really get enough footage time on these SSD due to it not being compressed. I wish I could get an hour of raw on a BMCC without spending $2000 on a SSD

Skip to - 0:57 on this video A = ProRes B= Raw


A still of the video frame


ProRes


Raw
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12,800 not 128,000 lol I knew I wasn't crazy

12,800 not 128,000 lol I knew I wasn't crazy

haha! silly me! my apologies - however, it does still demonstrate that 1600,3200,6400 and even 12,800 are usable.

We shot this low budget PSA using a BMPCC and a C100/Ninja II.
I curious to see if anyone can guess which shot is from which camera...

We shot this low budget PSA using a BMPCC and a C100/Ninja II.
I curious to see if anyone can guess which shot is from which camera...

They match up petty well but I think I can tell which is the Bmcc. It shows you though, that you could use several different cameras in a single production without much of a problem.