Blackmagic Camera App - Feature Requests

I can confirm that clips recorded with Cinema P3 show more variation than those from BM's Camera app.
In both cases 24mm and I had switched off the overlays and the stabiliser.

Cinema P3: nominal 25 fps, from 24.000 to 26.078
Blackmagic Camera: nominal 25.000, from 25.000 to 25.010 = pretty damn close to CFR!

Allow auto ISO with fixed shutter (shutter priority).

Regards

I have a question (or two or…) about motion blur; maybe Uli could chip in with a view.

First look at this table:

Four shutter/angle and frame rate scenarios

Skærmbillede 2023-12-15 kl. 13.57.40.png (22.04 KiB) Viewed 13281 times

1. Since each frame is exposed identically (1/50s) in cases B and C the actual motion blur in each frame is similar in nature. Correct?

2. The actual motion blur for frame d is NOT equal to B (or C for that matter). Why is it, that the 180 degree shutter angle is based on the “similar” motion blur convention or premise?

3. IF I (can) use case C, I get double the frame rate (has benefits), pays no penalty in form of minus one stop (compared to d), aaaand if I want to use the footage for slow-motion (obvious factor is two) - let’s say 100 frames at 50 fps (1/50s) expanded to 200 frames 25fps (1/50s) - the actual motion blur in each frame is similar to case B. Why would I choose case d, unless I want a more “frozen” image (blur) in each frame at 1/100s and can accept the minus one stop exposure for each frame?

Assume that 25fps 1/25s and 50fps 1/50s are available options (as shown by Blackmagic Camera App), and that we’re NOT using a camera with a mechanical shutter for video.

Regards

Well, I get 25 nominal, 25.000 minimum and 26.087 max then.
But Tom is looking into it.

Well, I get 25 nominal, 25.000 minimum and 26.087 max then.
But Tom is looking into it.

The Nominal 25 (constant), minimum 24 (periodically) or 25 (mostly) and maximum 26.087 maximum (constant) seems to be the case (I have experienced 24 for both ProRES 422HQ and 422 at different times.

I assume it's one of those "it happens" cases - for one reason or other. Even if the iPhone is automatically put into "Do Not Disturb" in Focus mode when Cinema P3 (or BMC or....) are used, there's still a lot going on in an iPhone (with out without overlays).

My two minimum 24 fps cases (over two days) are with active overlays, as was also the case for all minimum 25 fps cases.

Regards

Regarding your question about fps vs exposure time:
The 180 degrees rule has been established with 24 or 25 fps over time and seems to support the illusion of motion pretty well. But 50 (or 60) fps is a different thing for that matter.

First let me state that opto-chemical cinema hat even a tad less resolution than HD can deliver, and that was in the best, very well maintained cinemas. UHD is far beyond that. If you are sitting close enough, you may see stutter where you wouldn't see any in traditional cinema, due to the relative motion of high-contrast edges. So, actually 50 fps fits such high resolutions better than 25.

OTOH, the edges of motion blur were soft in cameras with a mechanical shutter, but they are sharply defined in most digital cameras. Arri tried to change it with the Arri Alexa Studio, which was not a huge success. And then there is the Motion Mount by Red, which can do it, but has other disadvantages.

But I'm not aware of any scientifically solid research on perception of 180 vs 360 degrees in 50 fps. I can only talk about my subjective experience when I went to theatres showing HFR (as they called it). I always felt as if I was watching a group of actors behind a very clean window pane on a stage. So, the problem is the suspension of disbelief.

Finally, 360 degrees (if the iPhone can go that fast at all) will not allow the nice EDR tricks Apple does to extend dynamic range. We would loose quite a bit of highlight range.

Regarding your question about fps vs exposure time:
The 180 degrees rule has been established with 24 or 25 fps over time and seems to support the illusion of motion pretty well. But 50 (or 60) fps is a different thing for that matter.

First let me state that opto-chemical cinema hat even a tad less resolution than HD can deliver, and that was in the best, very well maintained cinemas. UHD is far beyond that. If you are sitting close enough, you may see stutter where you wouldn't see any in traditional cinema, due to the relative motion of high-contrast edges. So, actually 50 fps fits such high resolutions better than 25.

OTOH, the edges of motion blur were soft in cameras with a mechanical shutter, but they are sharply defined in most digital cameras. Arri tried to change it with the Arri Alexa Studio, which was not a huge success. And then there is the Motion Mount by Red, which can do it, but has other disadvantages.

But I'm not aware of any scientifically solid research on perception of 180 vs 360 degrees in 50 fps. I can only talk about my subjective experience when I went to theatres showing HFR (as they called it). I always felt as if I was watching a group of actors behind a very clean window pane on a stage. So, the problem is the suspension of disbelief.

Finally, 360 degrees (if the iPhone can go that fast at all) will not allow the nice EDR tricks Apple does to extend dynamic range. We would loose quite a bit of highlight range.

I could easily live with a shutter of 1/50 sec minus 1 microsecond to millisecond “switching” to next task. In real life “image Blur”, I doubt the difference would be visible (even by “connoiseurs”. There is NO mechanical items involved (unless you regard moving ions or electrons as mechanical elements)

If the shutter is ~1/50s in both cases, there is not room for “more” data collection. Any extra EDR processing can still take place (even a variation of the old fashioned Cray vector processing approach), when you assume:

1. Image collection. Time stamp, duration etc. established. Source content fixed.

2. EDR and other necessary processing is performed. If shutter is 1/100 sec it can but need still not be done (completely) sequentially, otherwise in parallel to capturing next frame. Power is available plentiful.

3.Timestamps etc. Follows each frame through the processing pipeline.

4. For each frame (25fps, 50 fps) transmission will always be delayed one frame (the collection period) plus what is introduced in display, other output conversion, cell or WiFi network etc.

5. Saving (and most processing) is not required to be realtime, as long as timestamps are maintained for each frame.

Imagine an old fashioned “bucket brigade” from water source to fire to be extinguished. The “water” replaced by frames (each carrying a time stamp), and each intermediary “bucket” representing a processing step required. The “Fire” being the final distribution to screen, cell or WiFi, HDMI, memory or SSD etc. a few milliseconds (???) down the line.

In short, in a multiprocesser, multitasking with additional, separate, parallel graphics and neural processing as well as an Independent protocol support pipeline for output conversion, producing most any “image cosmetication” is probably not significally affected.

Log may be a special case, but I doubt it is based on lack of respurces per se. The behavior you have discovered may have many reasons, some maybe not even be based on processing power; could even be an unintended side effect of a bug, that may be eradicated in iOS 17.2 or later

Maybe a small look into: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A17 would help, even if most pf the combined processing power is “squandered” on anything but getting the fra,es fixed into a saved file

Even a “lowly” iPhone with a 19 billion transistors chips with nearly 900 combined and specialized processing units, may have ample power at hand at up to 3.78GHz peak, if heat can be distributed sufficiently quick to the environment.

Regards and a big smile

While we can always try to push both Apple and BM to improve on using the A17 better, I'm more interested in what is going on right now. EDR needs something between 7.5 and 10 ms to be performed, and I consider it very useful. Plus, in a warmer climate the use of available processing power might rather be limited by heat.
Apple had to throttle down between 17 and 17.1.1 to avoid overheating.

At 27 degrees room temperature, I needed to switch off the overlays in BM's camera app to record 50 fps reliably. 25 fps was far less problematic and it's using less battery power. At 50 fps, the iPhone was using more power than the SSD, at 25 it was the other way around. Maybe Titanium can't dissipate all the heat the A17 might produce under full load.

While we can always try to push both Apple and BM to improve on using the A17 better, I'm more interested in what is going on right now. EDR needs something between 7.5 and 10 ms to be performed, and I consider it very useful. Plus, in a warmer climate the use of available processing power might rather be limited by heat.
Apple had to throttle down between 17 and 17.1.1 to avoid overheating.

At 27 degrees room temperature, I needed to switch off the overlays in BM's camera app to record 50 fps reliably. 25 fps was far less problematic and it's using less battery power. At 50 fps, the iPhone was using more power than the SSD, at 25 it was the other way around. Maybe Titanium can't dissipate all the heat the A17 might produce under full load.

I’m not doubting your observations in any way.

I just doubt, that the iPhone iOS 17.2 has reached the intended state and - especially - stability sought by Apple at this moment in time. The iOS 17.3 is already in public beta, estimated to be released early in the new year, by some pundits. We’ll see.

I’ve done several internal recordings recently - 50fps and 1/50 sec ProRES 422 internal (~1 gigabit bitrate) and in “my chambers” temperature seldom goes below 22C or above 24C.

The nominal/min/max fps in BMC are quite normal, within the range both you and I expect as “standard”, and the phone is not feeling hot in any way; maybe a bit lukewarm(er), than ordinary 25fps at 600-700 megabit/sec 25fps - 1/25s or 1/50s depending on (non)available light. I’m not sure. Not noticed anything out of the order for the test scenes, I made. With cinematic stabilisation, all the overlays I use active etc.

The phone even selects 1/50s (50 fps) or 1/25s (25 fps) in low light in auto mode, so I assume, that Apple find this behavior quite within “legal” operating parameters.

Nominal 50.000 and centered tightly around (by memory) min: 49.9?? And max: 50.0??. You can get a sample or two tomorrow (when I wake up). Using the 1x Lens using a fair amount of oversampling in order to deliver the good result. Completely internal recording. Phone clad in my usual, thick leather case.

I’ll try stressing the critter - internal only - for a couple of longish successive internal recordings, and make my laser termometer earn its keep as well. It can’t hurt to check the limits, phone on tripod, and me enjoying a single malt periodically pointing the laser at the iPhone, making notes. Measuring backside directly within the lens protrusion and unobstructed screen.

Then we both know.

I usually do the 10-bit UHD ProRES 422 50fps, 1/50s with 2020 HLG, which activates all possible forms of internal processing overhead all the time.

As I said, Log may behave differently, but save speed should be less stressing for the iPhone (typically requiring a significantly lower save bitrate, than 2020 HLG and all that jazz).

Regards

Progress indicator sorely missed, when copying selected files via BlackMagic Camera App to external disk.

The simple “activity indicator” shown when copying 2 (or single) files (100 GByte) is not really meaningfull for copy operations above a few to ten-fifteen gigabytes.

Regards

Simulating walkabout handheld (note the HEADS UP in the end)

My iPhone in my standard “walkabout” thick leather, flip case (here placed on a surface - a box on a desk).

General settings (fully functional iPhone):

Auto activated Focus with Do Not Disturb
All overlays, everything else active
BlackMagic Cinema App.

1/60 set automatically

Time Temp screen temp lenses
00:00 28,9C 26,6C
01:00 32,2C 28,2C

Temps: Mid-rear lens array protrusion, center of screen (darker)
Screen: Constantly on with all indicators and overlays

File size 7.69 GB (duration: 1min 10 sec)

Lens : 24mm (x1, 48 megapixel, quadpixel, oversamplinf)
Protocol : ProRES 422 2020 HLG
Average bitrate : 876 Mbit/sec
Nominal : 50,000 FPS
Minimum : 49,917 FPS
Maximum : 50,420 FPS

Special note:
Metadata showing: 1/50 sec
Display showed: 1/60 sec (reason for restarting recording)

1/50 set automatically

Duration Screen Rear
00:00 32,2C 28,2C
01:00 34,8C 28,5C
02:30 36,6C 29,6C
04:00 35,3C 31,9C
05:30 38,8C 31,9C
07:30 39,2C 34:0C
09:00 38,5C 34,8C
11:00 39,9C 34,5C
13:00 41,3C 35,6C
15:00 42,5C 36,8C

Temps: Mid-rear lens array protrusion, center of screen (darker)
Screen: Constantly on with all indicators and overlays

Temp of desk surface during recording with iPhone 15 pro in thick leather flip case: 23,0 C

Power after use: 94% start 99%??

File size 99.63 GByte, duration: (ProRes 422 video):15 min, 0sec)

Lens : 24mm (x1, 48 megapixel, quadpixel, oversamplinf)

Duration : 15 min 0 sec
Protocol : ProRES 422 2020 HLG
Average bitrate : 881 Mbit/sec
Nominal : 50,000 FPS
Minimum : 49,958 FPS
Maximum : 50,125 FPS

Special Note: Display and metadata BOTH showing 1/50s shutter.

Recorded two days ago and today:

Shorter files generally (two examples) exhibit key data like these, recent samples (ALL recorded INTERNALLY):

Lens : 24mm (x1, 48 megapixel, quadpixel, oversamplinf)

Duration : 32 sec 23 ms
Protocol : ProRES 422HQ 2020 HLG, 50fps - 1/50s
Average bitrate : 1398 Mbit/sec
Nominal : 50,000 FPS
Minimum : 49,917 FPS
Maximum : 50,042 FPS

Duration : 30 sec 923 ms
Protocol : ProRES 422HQ 2020 HLG, 25 fps - 1/25s
Average bitrate : 752 Mbit/sec
Nominal : 25,000 FPS
Minimum : 24,979 FPS
Maximum : 25,010 FPS

Duration : 25 sec 838 ms
Protocol : ProRES 422HQ 2020 HLG, 25 fps - 1/25s
Average bitrate : 656 Mbit/sec
Nominal : 25,000 FPS
Minimum : 24,990 FPS
Maximum : 25,021 FPS

Duration : 31 sec 579 ms
Protocol : ProRES 422 2020 HLG, 50 fps - 1/50s
Average bitrate : 932 Mbit/sec
Nominal : 50,000 FPS
Minimum : 49,958 FPS
Maximum : 50,083 FPS

The deviations for 422 is -42/+83 ”milliframe” and for 422HQ -83/+42 “milligram” (50fps) in half-minute captures above seems to translate into “-1/+2” and “-2/+2” (rounded) base “timing units”. If the assumption is correct: No clue, whatsoever, just a hunch/guess/theory.

Transfer operation comment

Copy ~100GByte via File Browser Pro to Samsung T7 Shield.
Didn’t handle 94 GByte file. Activity lamp on SSD turned off, but was indicating action.

AirDrop worked, also indicating iPhone send progress and MacBook receive progress.AirDrop not advisable - veeery slow comparedtobfile copy. 5.1V/1.9A-5.2V/1.8A shown on power bank. Connecting or disconnecting PSU or power Banks did not affect anything. Auto screen off, face ID login etc has no effect on AirDrop.

Temp: 33.3C on screen off center after around an estimated 16 GByte transfer.33.4C after roughly 25GB transfer. Stopped. Direct to disk copy on Acasis hu.

Went from Single Malt to tap water to stay sober through the Air Drop ordeal (t’was mega boring

Recommendation

Only use Air Drop for very short files. I get transfer speeds in the order of around 20-45 megabyte/sec for Air Drop, depending on distance/“radio visibility”. You can calculate the typical time range required for a 100 gigabyte file transfers yourself.

Copy to external media for transfer to computer or record directly to external media for really large files (long duration files). Saves a loot of time. Air Drop is ALWAYS far, far slower (whatever receiving computer).

Smallrig Rig on tripod, external power (power bank), internal recording.

1/50 set automatically

Duration Screen Rear
00:00 27.2C 25.0C
01:00 30,8C 26.7C
02:00 32.8C 27.8C
03:00 33,3C 28,2C
05:00 36,0C 30,3C
07:00 Saw ERROR MESSAGE
09:00
11:00
13:00
15:00

Temp of desk surface during recording with iPhone 15 pro in thick leather flip case: 23,0 C

Power after use: 95% start 99%!

File size 41.53 GByte, duration: 5m51sec (ProRes 422 video):

Duration : 5 min 51 sec
Protocol : ProRES 422 2020 HLG
Average bitrate : 927 Mbit/sec
Nominal : 50,000 FPS
Minimum : 49,958 FPS
Maximum : 50,125 FPS

Recording stopped due to unknown error.

Turned out, the unknown error was memory full - even though I had deleted the roughly 110 GB of preceding recordings via the Blackmagic Interface.

Follwing post will include a way to test, if the problem exists on your system, and a description of the cause, as seen from my system with BlackMagic Camera 1.2.00076 and iOS 17.2.

Took some time to discover cause. A more detailed bug report will follow, later today or tomorrow. There's a lot of data to put on paper (not possible in the Blackmagic Forum. I'll probably produce a PDF with lot's of images, that can be downloaded by interested parties).

Regards and… who said, the world wasn’t geared up against you

Temporary (possible) bug report with test approach

I ran into a sever and reproducible memory management bug in BlackMagic Camera 1.2.00076 and iOS 17.2, during the promised tests.

I will document both the tests results and create a separate bug entry on the Forum. That will take some time (some 150GB of files are involved, so…

You can help tracking the bug already now, if you’ve used Blackmagic Camera recently, and AFTER a phone restart and AFTER an iOS update.

1. Note Blackmagic Camera App version.

2. Note iOS version

3. Go into your local Blackmagic Camera folder, and get all file seizes present, or make a new recording of some size (GB should suffice, more is better).

4. Make a screen dump of your remaining memory (Settings, General, Memory (whatever it’s called in your memory) display on the iPhone.

5. Delete everything (maybe copy to external disk before deletion) via the Blackmagic interface (IMPORTANT).

6. Make a screen dump of your remaining memory (Settings, General, Memory (whatever it’s called in your memory) display on the iPhone.

7. Do you see a significant lowering of memory used?

8. Wait ten minutes. How’s the memory status now?

9. Restart your iPhone (power off followed by power on), login etc.

10. Make a screen dump of your memory status.

11. Now… compare the screen dumps.

I ran into a case, where I recorded around 100GB of video internally (leaving around 50GB free). Copied out the content, and then deleted the internal video via the Blackmagic Camera interface. Files were deleted (missing in both the Blackmagic Camera and the iPhone Blackmagic Folder).

I then started another test, with a different setup (tripod) planning to make a similar 15 minute recording (expecting 110GB). After exactly 7 minutes I wanted to make temperature checks, but Blackmagic had stopped recording with an unknown error. Hmm…

No files shown via Blackmagic Camera interface, but both a video file and a proxy file (around 42GB combined), were found in the Blackmagic folder, when viewed from Files.

The memory status was down to around 5 GB free out of 256GB.

In effect, combined recording in the two tests (plus any prior recordings deleted via the Blackmagic interface since the most recent iPhone restart/update) were still present, as far as iOS was concerned.

I copied out the ~42GB video file, and deleted the recording via the Blackmagic interface.

Powered down the phone. Powered up again, logged in, an went into Settings, General and Memory (whatever it's called in your system).

Over the next few minutes, the system use grows a bit, after getting all internal processes up and running. That was around 70GB used out of 256GB.

Conclusion: Various experiments, recordings and tests plus the last three test files (around 150GB in total), had accumulated as “in use” AFTER being deleted via the Blakcmagic Interface, but the system status not being aware of that (seems that size of proxy deletions are registered correctly though).

The short version: If you’ve used Blackmagic for internal recordings, and deleted the content (after copy out to disk, Air Drop etc), the memory may still be reserved in the system.

If this is not a bug in iOS 17.2 (that does not recognize any difference between Proxy video files and the actual video files, when they’re deleted), then manually delete files via the iPhone Files App. Haven’t tested that yet, since the 180GB or so of files have now been permanently removed through several restarts of my system.

IF you can reproduce the problem (locally on-phone recorded video files deleted via the Blackmagic Camera User interface, are not reflected in system memory status), please confirm here, and in the bug report forum.

A far more thorough report will follow. The bug may be in Blackmagic Camera, iOS 17(.2) or caused by a side effect from the use of 25fps at 1/25s or 50fps at 1/50s. I cannot say, what is the cause with any certainty right now, but if you can reproduce the problem using your own standard settings for internal video recordings, instead of my "as/inspirational" test shenanigans, the cause is quickly narrowed down.

This is just a heads-up on the problem, and a possible approach for checking, if you're affected by the problem, when using Blackmagic Camera App for internal recordings.

Regards and remember, that not only the world can be a cruel master

How have you set Settings / Media / Save Clips To… when this problem (of deleted media not actually freeing up the iPhone storage) occurs?

How have you set Settings / Media / Save Clips To… when this problem (of deleted media not actually freeing up the iPhone storage) occurs?

Save Clips to is “In-App Only”, Filename Convention “BlackMagic Camera” (somehow has gotten reset from “iOS”.

The setting “iOS” increments continually the last number, instead of “restarting” from …001, when folder is empty. BlackMagic Convention introduces the risk - when restarting file serial count - of overwriting existing files in a target folder (e.g.when copying from internal memory to external memory).

The setting is now set back at “iOS”, but…

Regards

Strange. I have always set recordings to App Only and Blackmagic naming conventions. Upgraded to 17.2 and settings remained the same. I’m not using iCloud or any kind of sharing that Blackmagic now offers.

I've not done the forensic level of testing that kfriis has done, but...

On not seeing my "available record time" increase after using the files app to delete all video and proxies from the phone, I grew suspicious that IOS wasn't deleting them, just putting them in trash, where they still used available space.

Emptying trash seemed to restore my space available figure.

I haven't attempted to recreate that scenario.

I'm an absolute IOS novice. This is my first iPhone.

… Emptying trash seemed to restore my space available figure.

I haven't attempted to recreate that scenario.

I'm an absolute IOS novice. This is my first iPhone.

How do you Empty Trash on the iPhone?

Blackmagic Camera Memory Release Problem

Environment: BlackMagic Camera 1.2.00076 and iOS 17.2

Conclusion
 
BlackMagic Camera does not succeed in deleting own created files in iPhone memory.
 
CinemaP3 deletes own created files consistently.
 
BlackMagic Camera reserved file space is only reclaimed after rebooting the iPhone.
 
Documentation
Anyone should be able to reproduce problem, unless my environment is unique in some way.

Complete report including all Screendump are found here:
Title: “Memory Release Bug.pdf”
Link: https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/08by ... elease_Bug
 
File may be removed after January 31, 2024 without prior warning.

Regards

Strange. I have always set recordings to App Only and Blackmagic naming conventions. Upgraded to 17.2 and settings remained the same. I’m not using iCloud or any kind of sharing that Blackmagic now offers.

I think the "change" in file naming conventions was caused by a preset, that was activated (when switching between different scenarios).

The bmcpreset (in text format) has the parameter:

"filenameConvention" : 0,

in the section "app settings", and if I haven't saved all presets with my preferred convention, I will reap confusion. Luckily presets can be edited in a standard text editor.

Currently I export all presets periodically to a "Settings" folder and "Blackmagic" subfolder and a DATESTAMP'ed subsubfolder in iCloud, and I assume, that they can be imported from there as well.

This should prevent the worst side effects of the rather wide spred "50cm" error (the major error cause, has face placed within 50 cm of the monitor/screen - usually

Regards

Thanks, rebooting did result in more iPhone storage being available.

I've not done the forensic level of testing that kfriis has done, but...

On not seeing my "available record time" increase after using the files app to delete all video and proxies from the phone, I grew suspicious that IOS wasn't deleting them, just putting them in trash, where they still used available space.

Emptying trash seemed to restore my space available figure.

I haven't attempted to recreate that scenario.

I'm an absolute IOS novice. This is my first iPhone.

If you use the App User Interface to delete video files, they do NOT end up in Trash (same for CinemaP3).

If you delete via the Apple iPhone Files App, deleted files end up in "Trash".

The reason behind using the Blackmagic User interface is, that that way both Media and corresponding Proxy files get removed in one go (at least on the surface

Regards

Further to some of the posts above...

I'm using Apple's Files App to store clips because it's a mature app whose workings are well-understood. It is used by a number of important applications, such as Pages and Numbers. I assume that Blackmagic is drawing on existing iOS file management, but I don't know to what degree. I don't even know what "In the App" is, and I imagine that the Blackmagic App's file management is still under development.

Apple has an iPhone User Manual and its support pages on the internet explain how the Files App works. For example, there is a reason that people are discovering that files that are deleted still take up space on their phone. They are still on the phone. They are in a directory called "Recently Deleted", which is where they will remain for 30 days unless one takes the step of emptying "Recently Deleted".* The suggestion that they disappear when the phone is started up is simply wrong. This also happens to be the way that Apple's Photos App works.

* If you want to know why Apple does this, a search about recovering deleted files will show why

The screen captures below show the Files App basic directory structure, and the directories that are created when one chooses "Files" for storage of clips. I'm splitting these captures over two posts due to forum requirements.


Opening the Files App shows the following. Note, among other directories, "Recently Deleted".

Files App Directories

1 Files App.jpeg (101.25 KiB) Viewed 12921 times

See the page title at the top. I store almost all of the files that I use the Files App for in the Cloud, so that they are also available on my Desktop and iPad. This is an exception. For the Blackmagic App and Beastgrip's Beastcam App, I store the files on the phone. Indeed, the BM App set it up this way automatically. After all, BM wants you to use its Cloud

On My Phone

2 On My Phone.jpeg (83.3 KiB) Viewed 12921 times

See the page title at the top. These are the sub-directories of the Blackmagic App directory.

Look at the page title. These are the Media directory's contents (a clip) and its Proxy subdirectory.

Content of Media Directory

4 file and Proxy.jpeg (76.63 KiB) Viewed 12897 times

See the title of the page., This is the content of Proxy.

Content of the Proxy Sub-directory

5 Proxy.jpeg (69.53 KiB) Viewed 12897 times

Note that clips and their proxies are separate files. If you want to delete the clip in its entirety, you have to delete the proxy as well.

… Emptying trash seemed to restore my space available figure.

I haven't attempted to recreate that scenario.

I'm an absolute IOS novice. This is my first iPhone.

How do you Empty Trash on the iPhone?

A good question, Rick. I only did it once. I think I used the files app.

If you use the App User Interface to delete video files, they do NOT end up in Trash (same for CinemaP3).
If you delete via the Apple iPhone Files App, deleted files end up in "Trash".

The reason behind using the Blackmagic User interface is, that that way both Media and corresponding Proxy files get removed in one go (at least on the surface

That may be how I did it - with the BMC app. I was a week or so ago and I should have paid more attention.

I know that I did recover drive space, though.

Thanks, Peter.

Request an option to enable audio out to Bluetooth (I like to use my Sony Noise Reduction cans), but that seems to be quite impossible, when using BlackMagic Camera (latest version).

No problem in CinemaP3, so… it’s possible.

Regards

Thanks, Peter.

I just realized how I deleted those media. I went into Settings/Phone Storage and it offered to delete recently deleted files.

If not mentioned in thread already:

I understand that access to apple log is restricted to iPhone 15 and their API. But if Blackmagic camera app could do a pseudo log, ala Filmic Pro, on older iPhone models. They would basically corner the iPhone filming market.

This feature would make Blackmagic camera the go to app for all iPhone users.

As a side note:

Hats off to the Blackmagic leadership, coders and developers once again.

Putting the power in the hands of the people, without the ******** subscription models that turned so many people away from Filmic Pro.

I doubt that many if any of us use iPhones as a primary camera, but as a documentarian, being able to get usable footage from something that is already in my pocket, is huge for moments which you're not planning for/set-up for shooting, but life occurs in front of you.

Thanks Blackmagic, I'm a true supporter and believer.

For my personal use case, I do have the iPhone 15 pro max so log/prores is brilliant for an in-pocket device.

The subject matter of one of my current films is in the Ecuadorian Amazon, I'm teaching one of the young men there how to shoot and edit, partially to help me with the film, to get moments when I'm not in the jungle with them. But also, I'm mentoring him the ins and outs of shooting/editing as he wants to pursue it for a career.

They've only got older iPhones out there (if any phones / capture devices) - so a pseudo log incorporated into the Blackmagic camera app would help out someone like him, and others without the financial ability to buy the latest and greatest.

If Filmic Pro can do it Blackmagic can do it better - and open up a world of possibilities for those less fortunate than us in the collective 'west'.

Cinema P3, which is quite reasonably priced without subscription, can do some log versions of its own on older iPhones. It even comes with the right LUTs to export for these.
Give it a try, the Pro version is free for one week.

Maybe one day AI will do it for you. Or make you obsolete.

My first experiment involved a family photo, where I asked for a gorilla being placed between my nephew and my aunt. Perfectly placed and convincing specimen, light adjusted to near perfect. I even gave my aunt a new hairdo you wouldn’t believe. Far better, than my original produced with my S5 and impressively heavy lens

Latest experiment a few days ago: A fully AI generated version of a known tourist sight. Again, better than most could do in real life (nigh to impossible since no tourists, clear skies, sunshine

Only flaw? Surroundings indicated another continent (sight not placed in the US

Regards

When I asked about tourism to Bali, the AI put elephants and tigers there.
Must include a time-machine.

When I asked about tourism to Bali, the AI put elephants and tigers there.
Must include a time-machine.

Smile… by the way, the first specific solutions for using CFExpress cards on an iPhone 15 Pro Max has been presented:

https://kondorblue.com/products/recordi ... 1204943920

Only question is, if the power delivery is up to the task.

I’m in no doubt, that we’ll soon see standard “backside” iPhone cases with a fixed, secure room for a small SSD like the T7.

I’ve concocted my personal SSD iPhone “dual-cover” (magnets don’t really suffice in the rough and tumble of ev’ryday travel). Really simple. Really cheap. Runs nowhere!

Regards

...by the way, the first specific solutions for using CFExpress cards on an iPhone 15 Pro Max has been presented:

https://kondorblue.com/products/recordi ... 1204943920

Discussed here a couple of days ago, with links to videos: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=191338&start=150#p1007250

Two posts down from that, there's discussion about Kondor Blue's cable for V-Mount Battery > USB-C > iPhone 15: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=191338&start=200#p1007394

I’m in no doubt, that we’ll soon see standard “backside” iPhone cases with a fixed, secure room for a small SSD like the T7.

Discussed on Office Hours Global on December 7th, where the second hour was on the Blackmagic app. There are time stamps in the Description. They expect someone like Tilta to release, by NAB, a cage that's also a hub. They foresee something more sophisticated than accommodation of SSDs.

That Angelbird card holder/reader looks unnecessarily bulky to me, like it would interfere with filter mounting. Also, I've learned not to rely on field use of Mag Safe for secure mounting. My new iPhone's screen tells the sad story.

I agree with Rob. The ultimate solution is a tiny hub with power delivery.

I'd place my bets on Tilta. They're all over the professional cine market.

Besides, I'm due for another run to Vegas in April.

Cinema P3 now back to form on iOS 17.2

Today Cinema P3 released a new version, that removes the preivous “weird frame rates”, that periodically turned up in the output.

All codecs ProRES 422HQ/422 and h265 40MB/20MB showed values of the type:

Nominal : 25,000 FPS (always)
Minimum : 25,000 FPS (sometimes 24.000 FPS)
Maximum : 26,087 FPS (always)

I have now repeated the tests, from December 15, and now - December 19, ~20 CET - the problem seems solved. The executive summary says:

Nominal : 25,000 FPS
Minimum : 24.975 FPS
Maximum : 25.025 FPS

Note, that these are “fresh” values, but I’m confident, that Tom has found and rectified the cause.

ProRES 422HQ 25 fps / 1/50s Shutter Priority, Cinema stabilisation, handheld

Video
ID : 2
Format : ProRes
Formatversion : Version 0
Formatprofil : 422 HQ
Codec-ID : apch
Varighed : 28sek. 409 ms
Source duration : 29sek. 72 ms
Bitratemodus : Variabel
Bitrate : 603 Mb/s
Bredde : 3.840 billedpunkter
Højde : 2.160 billedpunkter
Størrelsesforhold : 16:9
Billedratemodus : Variabel
Billedfrekvens : 25,000 FPS
Minimum billedfrekvens : 24,975 FPS
Maksimum billedfrekvens : 25,025 FPS
Farverum : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Skantype : Progressiv
Bits/(Billedpunkter*Billed) : 2.907
Strømstørrelse : 1,99 GiB (97%)
Source stream size : 2,04 GiB (100%)
Titel : Core Media Video
Skrivende bibliotek : Apple
Kodet den : 2023-12-19 19:19:34 UTC
Tagged den : 2023-12-19 19:20:04 UTC
Color primaries : BT.2020
Overførselskarakteristika : HLG
Matrix-coefficienter : BT.2020 non-constant

ProRES 422 25 fps / 1/50s Shutter Priority, Cinema stabilisation, handheld

Video
ID : 2
Format : ProRes
Formatversion : Version 0
Formatprofil : 422
Codec-ID : apcn
Varighed : 29sek. 155 ms
Source duration : 29sek. 832 ms
Bitratemodus : Variabel
Bitrate : 475 Mb/s
Bredde : 3.840 billedpunkter
Højde : 2.160 billedpunkter
Størrelsesforhold : 16:9
Billedratemodus : Variabel
Billedfrekvens : 25,000 FPS
Minimum billedfrekvens : 24,975 FPS
Maksimum billedfrekvens : 25,025 FPS
Farverum : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Skantype : Progressiv
Bits/(Billedpunkter*Billed) : 2.292
Strømstørrelse : 1,61 GiB (97%)
Source stream size : 1,65 GiB (100%)
Titel : Core Media Video
Skrivende bibliotek : Apple
Kodet den : 2023-12-19 19:20:14 UTC
Tagged den : 2023-12-19 19:20:44 UTC
Color primaries : BT.2020
Overførselskarakteristika : HLG
Matrix-coefficienter : BT.2020 non-constant

HEVC 40MB/sec 25 fps / 1/50s Shutter Priority, Cinema stabilisation, handheld

Video
ID : 2
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Formatprofil : Main 10@L8.5@High
HDR format : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.08.13, BL+RPU, HLG compatible
Codec-ID : hvc1
Codec-ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Varighed : 27sek. 361 ms
Source duration : 28sek. 32 ms
Bitrate : 264 Mb/s
Bredde : 3.840 billedpunkter
Højde : 2.160 billedpunkter
Størrelsesforhold : 16:9
Billedratemodus : Variabel
Billedfrekvens : 25,000 FPS
Minimum billedfrekvens : 24,975 FPS
Maksimum billedfrekvens : 25,025 FPS
Farverum : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bitdybde : 10 bits
Bits/(Billedpunkter*Billed) : 1.271
Strømstørrelse : 860 MiB (97%)
Source stream size : 881 MiB (99%)
Titel : Core Media Video
Kodet den : 2023-12-19 19:20:57 UTC
Tagged den : 2023-12-19 19:21:26 UTC
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Overførselskarakteristika : HLG
Matrix-coefficienter : BT.2020 non-constant
Codec configuration box : hvcC+dvvC

HEVC 20MB/sec 25 fps / 1/50s Shutter Priority, Cinema stabilisation, handheld

Video
ID : 2
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Formatprofil : Main 10@L6.2@Main
HDR format : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.08.13, BL+RPU, HLG compatible
Codec-ID : hvc1
Codec-ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Varighed : 27sek. 806 ms
Source duration : 28sek. 472 ms
Bitrate : 198 Mb/s
Bredde : 3.840 billedpunkter
Højde : 2.160 billedpunkter
Størrelsesforhold : 16:9
Billedratemodus : Variabel
Billedfrekvens : 25,000 FPS
Minimum billedfrekvens : 24,975 FPS
Maksimum billedfrekvens : 25,025 FPS
Farverum : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bitdybde : 10 bits
Bits/(Billedpunkter*Billed) : 0.956
Strømstørrelse : 657 MiB (97%)
Source stream size : 673 MiB (99%)
Titel : Core Media Video
Kodet den : 2023-12-19 19:21:36 UTC
Tagged den : 2023-12-19 19:22:05 UTC
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Overførselskarakteristika : HLG
Matrix-coefficienter : BT.2020 non-constant
Codec configuration box : hvcC+dvvC

Looks like the reproducible problem, that turned up after installing iOS 17.2, has been solved.

Regards

And 23.976p recorded by CinemaP3 reports as 23.976p in Resolve (from my iPhone 12 Pro Max) now. I still think I prefer the BMD Camera App but they each have their strengths.

Great job over just a few days by Tom!
We can call both apps now ‚near CFR‘ with such small variations.

Has anybody done a comparison with Filmic Pro, seeing as how it's the most mature of the apps for video, with the largest user base, and is integrated with Frame.io?

Cinema P3 is a three year old app that seems relatively unimportant. Judging from the attention it's gotten on YouTube, or rather lack of it, it has not been very successful. Almost all of the YouTube videos about it come from one person.

I would have thought that Filmic Pro would be the benchmark against which Blackmagic's app is analysed and measured. In the "others" category, the one that's potentially interesting is Halide's upcoming app.

Has anybody done a comparison with Filmic Pro, seeing as how it's the most mature of the apps for video, with the largest user base, and is integrated with Frame.io?

Cinema P3 is a three year old app that seems relatively unimportant. Judging from the attention it's gotten on YouTube, or rather lack of it, it has not been very successful. Almost all of the YouTube videos about it come from one person.

I would have thought that Filmic Pro would be the benchmark against which Blackmagic's app is analysed and measured. In the "others" category, the one that's potentially interesting is Halide's upcoming app.

Maybe Youtube attention is more a sign of "big coffers", than quality. When I see even relative recent praise of cameras I have used or even owned, I'm sometimes really surprised, that the YouTuber has even used the same camera (Note: Not all YouTubers are of that ilk, the problem is: Deciding who is, as an ordinary mortal

Since FiLMiC Pro went "subscription" after being sold to an Italian company, that seems to have recently fired the "previous crew" of developers (including founders), their product probably has no real effect anymore.

The appearance of the free Blackmagic Camera App may have influenced the decision to "cut down costs" in FiLMiC Pro 7. Version 6 is not maintained, and had a few "weak spots" (like trying to literally fry my iPhone 12 Pro in some settings

I have used Cinema P3 for a loong time (can't remember since when). Certainly since FiLMiC Pro went subscription in 2021.

Regards

(Note: Not all YouTubers are of that ilk, the problem is: Deciding who is, as an ordinary mortal

It isn't rocket science.

Since FiLMiC Pro went "subscription" ... their product probably has no real effect anymore.

Lord knows where you're getting that from.

I have used Cinema P3 for a loong time (can't remember since when). Certainly since FiLMiC Pro went subscription in 2021.

Thanks, now I get it. You're mad at the people who make Filmic Pro and you became an evangelist for an app that was struggling to find a market.

(Note: Not all YouTubers are of that ilk, the problem is: Deciding who is, as an ordinary mortal

It isn't rocket science.

Since FiLMiC Pro went "subscription" ... their product probably has no real effect anymore.

Lord knows where you're getting that from.

I have used Cinema P3 for a loong time (can't remember since when). Certainly since FiLMiC Pro went subscription in 2021.

Thanks, now I get it. You're mad at the people who make Filmic Pro and you've become an evangelist for an app that was struggling to find a market.

No!

Regards

Many users of Filmic Pro are annoyed that it went to a subscription model. Seems to me that the people sought out BMD Camera App and Cinema P3 for the same reasons that sought out Resolve over Premiere. Sure, part of it is in protest to being blackmailed. Part of it is to support innovation by those who do not use a subscription model.

Many users of Filmic Pro are annoyed that it went to a subscription model. Seems to me that the people sought out BMD Camera App and Cinema P3 for the same reasons that sought out Resolve over Premiere. Sure, part of it is in protest to being blackmailed. Part of it is to support innovation by those who do not use a subscription model.

People were, and are, interested in Blackmagic's app because Grant Petty is a great salesman and his company has a great track record for both video/film hardware and software. Working with Apple didn't exactly hurt either. The Office Hours Global segment on December 7th, where an hour was devoted to the Blackmagic app, has a very good discussion about the significance of this, in particular about the fact that Blackmagic is uniquely placed to develop this kind of software. There's a link to the Office Hours Global episode above.

Filmic Pro is the obvious comparator on substance. The fact that some people want to cancel it, to use the currently popular word, is beside the point. On the upside, now I know why Cinema P3 is being pushed so hard here.

Many users of Filmic Pro are annoyed that it went to a subscription model. Seems to me that the people sought out BMD Camera App and Cinema P3 for the same reasons that sought out Resolve over Premiere. Sure, part of it is in protest to being blackmailed. Part of it is to support innovation by those who do not use a subscription model.

People were, and are, interested in Blackmagic's app because Grant Petty is a great salesman and his company has a great track record for both video/film hardware and software. Working with Apple didn't exactly hurt either. The Office Hours Global segment on December 7th, where an hour was devoted to the Blackmagic app, has a very good discussion about the significance of this, in particular about the fact that Blackmagic is uniquely placed to develop this kind of software.

Filmic Pro is the obvious comparator on substance. The fact that some people want to cancel it, to use the currently popular word, is beside the point. People who don't want to pay for software are ultimately irrelevant.

You seem bent on looking for - and postulating - dubious reasons in people, that do not behave, as you require. (Not) sorry for not consulting you on my personal preferences. Won’t happen in the future either.

What has “Grant Petty” to do with - for instance - my personal decisions. I hardly know the man. His existence had no influence on my choice to test, and use BlackMagic Camera - and Cinema P3 - as viable alternatives for MY personal use (your use has no effect on my decisions either. Shocking, maybe, but true).

People, including me, may base their decisions on actual use of the Apps. Oh, dear! On the results delivered and basic costs (what on earth do they… grumble… grumble… they must be affected by some devious influence… grumble…)

Whether they even know, that “Grant Petty” exist or not. For most people, it probably has had no influence whatsoever! I suspect, there are even thousands of BlackMagic “real camera” users, that hardly knows the man.

Since you obviously don’t know: Cinema P3 Pro is not free!

I support innovation and value for my $$$. Filmic Pro was my previous app for the iPhone. Now I’m experimenting with both Cinema P3 (paid version) and BMD Camera App. I like both of them. I won’t use the subscription version of Filmic Pro unless I were to do paid work (in which case, I probably wouldn’t use the iPhone). I’m sure it is great but I like where these other two apps are going.

Having used Cinema 3 Pro, I'd like to reiterate my request for roll/cut audio notifications. I'm finding them very useful.

User switchable, of course.

@Kurt
I can't reproduce the issue anymore. Time-lapse is working fine in CP3.