Philip Bloom talks 4k and the BMPC4k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLynd ... pp=desktop

Towards the end one guy says that the BMPC4k with larger ssds don't seem to drop frames in comparison to the smaller ssds. So they always use minimum 480 gb ssds.

Audio quality on the YouTube video is really bad & low volume (maybe it was recorded on BMD cameras)?

I haven't finished listening to their l-o-n-g "chat", but unfortunately, just like my first sentence above, their discussion starts out overly-focused on "negatives".

However, there does seem to be some good bits, too, so I'll keep listening ...

-

... OK, now there're starting to whine about how the BMPC-4K isn't a "small" or cost-effective camera, and "requires" expensive add-ons to make it a useable system ... in the same breath they're talking about cams such as the Canon 1DC and the new Panasonic GH4!

Sigh. Where does one start? The BMPC-4K costs $3K. The 1DC starts at $12K, and to get good audio requires the same add-on gear as the BMPC-4K! An official price for the GH4 hasn't been announced yet, but it probably won't be much less than the BMPC-4K, and again, to get good audio requires the same add-on gear as the BMPC-4K!

Not to mention the very real, obvious advantages of the BMPC-4K over the other cameras (global shutter, higher real resolution, practically no aliasing/moire, "S35" sensor [compared to GH4 MFT], PreRes HQ & soon compressed RAW, cost-effective SSD media, full versions of Resolve & UltraScope software, built-in uninterruptible power supply [battery], blah, blah, blah ...)

If they would just focus on what's useful and good about each camera, and then afterwards discuss where there is room for improvement, everyone would be better off.

First and foremost, videographers and filmmakers need to know what the tools are good for. In most cases we can cost-effectively workaround shortcomings of the cams. What's important is showing and discussing what can be easily accomplished with these tools, instead of whining quite so much about what they can't do.

OK, now I'll finish listening to them jabber ...

... at the end of the video, to his credit, Philip grabs the BMPC-4K camera and tries to make off with it. So maybe there's hope after all.

-

I listened to the whole show, and I thought they were pretty even handed. Most of what is revealed is what Black Magic owners already know. Essentially, they are saying:

1. that the 4K (or Cinema camera or Pocket for that matter) from Black Magic doesn't result in a small rig once you add on necessities. All in one handy cam type systems are coming from the likes of Sony, Canon, et al. Jury out on GH4.

2. BM4k is not a low light camera.

3. It is an inexpensive way to get into 4k. But need to use good (expensive cards)

4. Work flow is decent with the camera.

5. Black Magic hasn't finished and needs to add things through firm ware, which has been the case with even Cinema realeased for some time now.

The 1DC and GH4 are 8-bit H264 cameras. It puts them in a different league than the BMPC.

The 1DC and GH4 are 8-bit H264 cameras. It puts them in a different league than the BMPC.

+1

The 1DC and GH4 are 8-bit H264 cameras. It puts them in a different league than the BMPC.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see how many people are willing to trade 10bit 4:2:2 or 12bit raw for 8bit 4:2:0, just to get 4k. That's assuming we get flooded with inexpensive, 4k, H.264/H.265 cameras this year.

Shawn

Solid vid.

I like how Bloom is level headed with the camera and not bedazzled by the 4k cam unlike some people here.

They acknowledge the low price and efficient workflow, but also acknowledge issues and limitations (especially backing up 4k ProRes or Raw files. Thats a lot of money to blow on storage space).

Would have liked to hear a bit more about other cams, though.

I had forgotten theres a cine version of the tokina 11-16. I need to get one on order.

Nobody has to backup Prores or raw files if they don't want to. They could simply transcode them to H264 and be at the same place that they would otherwise be with 8-bit cameras.

The better the BMD camera gets, the more the rest of the industry must respond to it. This is good for the starving artists out there, who can now afford gear that produces the image quality people have already become accustomed to. I say bash away!

Lens are next, they need to come way way down in price, $20-100K for good cinema glass is outrageous.

I don't think they bashed the camera at all. They spoke pretty candid about the positives and negatives.

Nobody has to backup Prores or raw files if they don't want to. They could simply transcode them to H264 and be at the same place that they would otherwise be with 8-bit cameras.

Depends on the job/project they are doing, and their workflow.

For someone who shoots and grades narrative work, theyll need to save all the raw or Prores files separately as they edit with proxies until picture lock. This can take a while.

I lucked out and managed to become the DoP for two short films that are going into production soon, one in March and one in April. Im also the editor and colorist for both. I can easily rack up 3 TB of data a day, on 12 hour days, with 5 shooting days total (this is the schedule per film) using the 4k. Thats 15 TBs of backup storage per movie. I still need to get a raid enclosure for optimal color grading using a different copy of the media as well. So, thats 30 TB for backups only. At $109.99 for the lowest price 3 TB hard drive from newegg, and needing 10, thats an additional $1100 I need to spend on drive space. Granted, this is a one time buy, but I still will need to buy additional drives down the road as they fail.

I still need to purchase two ~15TB raids for color grading too.

Everyone will use the camera differently, but as some can compress to H.264 files for storage, others are stuck with raw media for periods of time.

Whenever someone brings storage costs into the equation of reaching for better quality I facepalm.

If you have an issue/problem with paying for the best image you can afford then you should be shooting with a DSLR or something else 8-bit. You shouldn't be anywhere near master quality compression.

Seriously, a 3TB GoFlex drive costs 100.00 from Best Buy...

Also, Nick -- sorry to single your post out, are you shooting a documentary? If your narrative shooting ratios puts you at 6+ Hours of footage a day, I'd be afraid of more than the hard drive/storage space... unless your shooting for Judd Apatow, and then storage wouldn't even be an issue, as film wasn't for that kind of production...

I'm growing evermore out of touch with the no-budget filmmaking community, that's what it is.

=[

Nick I just got an LTO-6 drive for these reasons. Look into them for your backup purposes instead of drives. Much easier to get the data offsite.

Sell you mine, because I don't use it anymore... HDDs are so cheap and easy to access (not to mention faster haha) that I only use it on special request. And, I've had it for some time... the money it cost to put down on that thing (or the DigiBeta Deck... yeah, 30K)...

=T 2014, the year of 4K, modular, and easy filmmaking.

I don't think they bashed the camera at all. They spoke pretty candid about the positives and negatives.

Agree, they were very fair, especially Mr. Bloom! Bit of a relief that he seems to have got over some of his earlier reservations. Of course, it's not perfect, but he clearly knows its strengths. Imagine comparing the BMPC4K raw or ProRes 4:2:2 HQ image with the AVCHD-S codec that records 4K at 50 Mbps! It seems clear that the big boys like Sony et al are going down a track of consumer convenience where they will wow the consumer with how easy it is to record 4K in a tiny card. Great, go for it! And leave the quality arena to the professionals and enthusiasts that have a different set of aspirations and values.

Thank goodness, the BMD cameras are not for Everyman. And because of the quality niche that BMD is perusing against an avalanche of questionable quality 4K cameras that will be available this year, BMD will survive. Always a place for that convenient consumer camera, but it's not going to be seen as successful in broadcast or cinema. If the minimum standard of BBC is currently only 50 Mbps for HD broadcast, I don't think the bar will be the same for 4K.

Rick Lang
Sent using Tapatalk HD

Also, Nick -- sorry to single your post out, are you shooting a documentary? If your narrative shooting ratios puts you at 6+ Hours of footage a day, I'd be afraid of more than the hard drive/storage space... unless your shooting for Judd Apatow, and then storage wouldn't even be an issue, as film wasn't for that kind of production...

I'm growing evermore out of touch with the no-budget filmmaking community, that's what it is.

=[

Hey Kholi, no hard feelings.

Those shooting ratios can easily be gathered with these short films, especially with the wes anderson/truffaut styled director who has a few large steadicam sequences in mind with a dozen actors, some who are only second time actors. These two are passion projects Im collaborating on (hence why I said I became the DP, not hired as the DP), and other than the $6000/$8000 or so each film has spent/is spending on gear/lighting rentals and locations, theres no room for such a high storage demand. Besides, the situation I posted was hypothetical, since we arnt shooting with the 4k (using 2k FS700/BMCC), and Im accounting for a large shot footage to used footage ratio.

With my current setup, theres no problem paying for the best image I can currently afford =)

Nick I just got an LTO-6 drive for these reasons. Look into them for your backup purposes instead of drives. Much easier to get the data offsite.

Thanks Scott, I'll check them out.

Wow seem to be a lot of apologists here. The BM cameras are a result of their being a spectacular hole in the market bought on by manufacturers profits. BM have filled that gap not only have they fought against the competition but also many who would constantly whinge and moan about everything. BM have changed the course of film making and put professional tools in the hands of indie film makers.
A lot of rubbish is spoken about BM cameras being incomplete because you have to add on all the peripherals and even the pocket camera not really a pocket by the time you add on NDs Follow focus Monitor Matte box power supply which is useless a workflow with in DNG's where you need tons of terrabytes.

AND YET

Here I am Stood here with a cinema quality Groundbreaking Pocket camera that can make real films Of course you don't need all the add ons You can use it like a GH2 by closing the iris By using the lcd and adding a cheap rhode mic You can also use all the add ons to make a professional film Just what is it some people expect? A camera to have a follow focus Mattebox Maybe some built in pro ND filters in a pocket sized camera. No they only slate BM for not having those and no other camera Like the canon 1dc that doesn't need add ons. Come on give me a break.
You may be happy with being steered towards the more expensive stuff and doing down the reality of what BM stand for but I wont and it annoys me when others feebly pass on the same message as their so called peers.
At least have the decency to give BM credit where its due even if their delays and way of dealing with them are not good and by that I mean not towing the line of self made Gurus.

That lamenting about battery life really was on my nerves.

I mean, really? Again? Is it THAT hard to understand?

How long does a Red or Alexa battery last?

...oh, wait..

[CaptainHook]

That lamenting about battery life really was on my nerves.

I mean, really? Again? Is it THAT hard to understand?

How long does a Red or Alexa battery last?

...oh, wait..

Exactly - i was doing a 3 day corporate shoot this week and the DIT/cam assist also owns an EPIC that he rents out on jobs etc. When he was about to change the battery on the BM4K he reached for the power button and i said "oh, the internal battery works like trickle charge so you can just pull that v-mount and swap it without powering down etc" and the reply was "oh really? cool".

I stop clicking anything with Bloom on it. 4k is superior than HD and it is the future. Storage space and everything else is speeding up to it. Also there is a lot of competition in this market and some people does not want you to own a great camera because with great camera comes great footages.

4k is superior to HD for filmmakers who can afford it. For consumers? Not really. What you need a tv greater then 50" and content for it? You can have a sub 50"4k if you plan on sitting unreasonably close.

The camera does not make the cinematographer, the cinematographer makes the camera. I really doubt Bloom doesn't want people getting great cameras because then he has to compete with them. I mean he was filming with DSLRs and cameras which other people have and getting exceptional footage. A camera man rushes out to get the best camera money can buy because he thinks that will make his projects better. A cinematographer can plan his shot to such a degree to heighten any scene so that you do not realize that he is already influencing how you feel.

A camera man rushes out to get the best camera money can buy because he thinks that will make his projects better. A cinematographer can plan his shot to such a degree to heighten any scene so that you do not realize that he is already influencing how you feel.

Can you elaborate?

I was trying to highlight the difference between the people who call themselves cinematographers because they have a great camera and the cinematographers who take a simple scene and do it expertly. There is a million ways to film a scene.

Heres a scene from the godfather.

Does it need to be in 4k, 6k, 8k? No. The shots were well thought out and planned in advance. Id rather film 1080p or 2.5k and produce that kind of quality then film 4k, 6k and 8k and spend more time in POST.

I truly do not think Philip Bloom tries to keep people back from great cameras. The godfather shows you great things can be accomplished with very old and limited technology. I think he is giving a very real breakdown that 4k is not as great for as many uses as some people will have you to believe. It has its strengths and it has its flaws. In a couple years when we are popping 100 TB SSDs into our rigs and camera... and our phones/tablets are fast enough to handle editing compressed raw 4k... most of those issues will shrink into nothingness.

Oh, me and my rants...(and to second Michael Weatherby)

The photography term is GWC ("Guy With Camera") to differentiate from a Photographer — someone knowledgable in the technical and scientific attributes of photography, but also has the ability to consistently capture interesting and artistic images while getting along with the people around you. The professional part nowadays only seems to mean someone is getting paid, so I'll attribute a photographer with having human qualities since I know plenty of professional GWC's.

A GWC will chimp. A photographer will shoot confidently until a break and then glance at the polaroid back. A photographer works with models in a comfortable, fun, mutually-business/working relationship. A GWC is just trying to get laid. You see my point.

Anyway, a GWC will pixel peep and moan and complain about not having enough K's. Meanwhile Anthony Dod Mantle comfortably shoots DV, HD, servo 35mm stills and S35 motion picture film, in both natural daylight and big movie set lights, all mixed for the same movie. Because a photographer can find the art relevant to the narrative with whatever medium he is to use regardless of the bells and whistles and marketing talk.

Really, the only good thing to come out of the internet, DSLR's and the democratization of independent film is it has now become a buyer's market. I can get a S35-ish 4K capable camera with better-than-video dynamic range from $3000-15000 and a set of nice PL mount cine lenses for $14000-$40000. Twenty years ago, you couldn't buy one nice PL lens for less than $10000 and the good cine cameras still resolved like video and could only be rented. The "film look" was exclusively film's. Now, any jerk with a credit card can buy a "cinema camera" with a business card and a Wix website and proclaim himself a cinematographer. Philip Bloom and many other photographers have been competing against this new wave of GWC's who only know that their camera can hit 160000asa so why bother with lights at all? Especially when Youtube compression makes the artifacts look like film grain, kinda, I guess.

What about barrel distortion, breathing, vignetting, soft focus, inappropriately mixed color temperatures, lack of production design and continuity, on-camera sound, on-camera lighting, flickering ballasts, low CRI's, cheap LED lens refractions, source halation, dirty lens smears, low signal to noise ratios, carrier codecs, transcoding, the loss of thousands of bits of color information, the grade, storage and backup, blocking, rehearsals, a good script, walkie-talkies, catering, gas money for the crew, et bloody cetra?!

"But, my camera goes to 11."

Oh, ok. And that means you know what you're doing? Let me know when you're ready to put your gear up on eBay to help fund your next toy. I'll make you an offer.

Anyway, most of the time, these trade show floor videos are hosted by pixel-peeping GWC's who wax on and on forever about the K's because that's what they get paid to do. Then it's on to the next bright shiny thing to pitch sales for. Because if you stay on the bleeding edge with the manufacturers, they'll always send demos to you to "review." Hey, a good review lists the crap parts about a product. Bloom's reviews have always done that, even when the manufacturer supplied him with the product and he wasn't only borrowing or renting for the sake of his blog's visitors. At least Bloom knows what he's talking about and has the resumé and reels to back it up. I honestly believe Bloom has a viable opinion, cares about his reputation and how that reputation affects peoples judgement and tries not to be a salesman. So, trade show floor videos? Take them with a grain of salt.

Clearly, the BMCC 4K is the best bang for buck camera on the market today. At this point, DSLR's are for hipsters because now, hipsters who are also photographers, see value if the BMD cameras or the Digital Bolex. Being hipsters, they'd go with the DB cuz it's retro, whatever that means anymore.

Next best camera? I dunno. What you want? For me it's Amira or Scarlet, possibly Epic. C500, maybe. GH4 with that module sounds interesting but, it's still just a DSLR wanting to be a motion picture camera. I mean, Red's ok but the image still looks plasticky to me. I really like those Schneider Xenon FF lenses. Those BMD cameras really have nice colorimetry and add a lot of production value to a show if used correctly. And to think the worst BMD camera is actually the Pocket, which is still a damn fine little camera, says a lot.

Meh. Grain of salt these trade show floor videos.

I was trying to highlight the difference between the people who call themselves cinematographers because they have a great camera and the cinematographers who take a simple scene and do it expertly. There is a million ways to film a scene.

Heres a scene from the godfather.

Does it need to be in 4k, 6k, 8k? No. The shots were well thought out and planned in advance. Id rather film 1080p or 2.5k and produce that kind of quality then film 4k, 6k and 8k and spend more time in POST.

I truly do not think Philip Bloom tries to keep people back from great cameras. The godfather shows you great things can be accomplished with very old and limited technology. I think he is giving a very real breakdown that 4k is not as great for as many uses as some people will have you to believe. It has its strengths and it has its flaws. In a couple years when we are popping 100 TB SSDs into our rigs and camera... and our phones/tablets are fast enough to handle editing compressed raw 4k... most of those issues will shrink into nothingness.

35mm film is superior to 4k You are right proper DoPs are highly trained and years of training through the ranks making feature films and eventually lighting them. You're right anyone can call themselves a professional Phillip Bloom DOES like 4k in fact he owns a 1dc and has owned a RED. He just doesn't like the BM cameras and although he will mention they have good points that is offset by a whole load of bad points and in fact makes derogatory remarks and jokes about them To quote a few examples The pocket camera isn't a pocket camera and endless jokes about how it isn't. The rubbish sound The battery life The view screen being unusable. BM will undoubtly release a new version and the camera will be outdated No ND filters The record button in the wrong place and no onboard deletion of scene files BUT the camera does do RAW. Although its the DNG variety.
From where many of us are standing the pocket camera is a game changer and has singlehandedly taken cinema quality filmmaking to ALL. and out of those ALL are those who wold never have got a look in but can now have a chance in the film making world to shine. One closed door has now been opened. Does Bloom realise the signifigance of that? Maybe but there sure as hell little sign of it in his reviews. But then has he worked his way through the ranks and become a DoP? or has is career been as a BBC cameraman that has little to do with actual filmmaking. While his reviews are worth watching and personal I believe as he himself says don't take his word for it but do your own tests although not many of us could afford to do that perhaps research is a better term for most of us. After researching the pocket camera I take the complete opposite view of Blooms review and instead of buying a C100 or FS700 or a 1dc I thought I'd save myself a few bob and plump for the pocket camera and I now mostly use the camera like I did my GH2 with a plugged in battery a follow focus a matte box decent ND filters a monitor and a rhode mic. Oh silly me Why didn't I just go and buy a camera that had all those bits already.. Maybe because no camera actually does? Funny really I used to pimp my GH2 up in exactly the same way. so now I'm a GWC Soon to have the next latest piece of crap the BM4K and guess what a polished turd that sits right between an Alexa and a Sony F55 How cool is that?

Philip has said about the original cinema camera and again about the PC4k... that regardless of everything he just said it "shoots ___ for under 3k." Go ahead about put 2.5k or 4k in there. While he will harp on some issues he always reminds you of that fact. That strength he mentions over comes a lot of the flaws. Also, it comes with Da Vinci Resolve. So the value in the camera is there and highlighted.

If you were considering the BMPC4k chances are an Epic or Scarlett was not really that strongly in contention for your money. Its like saying you were going to buy either a Standard Honda Civic or a tricked out Jaguar. A Honda civic is a good economic car and there's nothing wrong with owning one... but you probably weren't between a civic or a jag. Just like you may have TALKED about a scarlett but you were probably never really between 1 or a just released camera that has how many reviews?

Philip has said about the original cinema camera and again about the PC4k... that regardless of everything he just said it "shoots ___ for under 3k." Go ahead about put 2.5k or 4k in there. While he will harp on some issues he always reminds you of that fact. That strength he mentions over comes a lot of the flaws. Also, it comes with Da Vinci Resolve. So the value in the camera is there and highlighted.

If you were considering the BMPC4k chances are an Epic or Scarlett was not really that strongly in contention for your money. Its like saying you were going to buy either a Standard Honda Civic or a tricked out Jaguar. A Honda civic is a good economic car and there's nothing wrong with owning one... but you probably weren't between a civic or a jag. Just like you may have TALKED about a scarlett but you were probably never really between 1 or a just released camera that has how many reviews?

So your saying he recommends buying a camera full of weaknesses in order to pay more for DaVinci Your car analogy is not good.

So your saying he recommends buying a camera full of weaknesses in order to pay more for DaVinci.

No, you get a camera and DaVince for the same price. You don't pay more for DaVinci. And Resolve is really a necessary part of owning any Blackmagic camera because they have left the majority of processing to Resolve to do.

Yes but if you listen to Blooms review then from my take on it the camera would be surplus to requirements. I mean who would want the DNG workflow The terrible battery The useless mic The awful screen. The imminent replacement and no way to delete your recorded shots in camera as well as the pocket camera not being a pocket and having to buy all the peripherals. And for all that the camera shoots RAW but then who needs RAW especially the DNG variety when the workflow is so huge Hmm let me see arr yess that would be me. Oh and look a whole forum full of people who also want this camera with so many flaws. I wonder why that is then.

I just have a problem with bumper sticker generalizations regarding Cameraman/Guy With Camera/ DoP, but that´s just me.

... The terrible battery The useless mic The awful screen. The imminent replacement and no way to delete your recorded shots in camera as well as the pocket camera not being a pocket and having to buy all the peripherals....

Yeah, at least you can shoot a BMC body out of the box.
Epic body comes without a battery, without a screen, without a mic and even without a menu or something you can stick your media in.

But the BMCs need to be tricked out with a ton of gear to make them work? ORLY?

I think those guys in this kind of "interview/panel" clips really need a real world check sometimes.

A good dp will make a good footages out of a bad cam but make great footages out of a great cam. Skills is one thing, owning the right gear for the job is another.

I haven't watched the interview.

Here are some shots from my large TV drama sets using the camera naked.

Clearly it can be done. Yeah it's not ideal. But you can do it.

The nice thing is that you CAN do it naked...ot you can pimp it up. Same goes for most cameras....

jb

From Offspring

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From Offspring....

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From Puberty Blues season 1

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@John Brawley ...No rig for protection...You are bold haha. What are your thoughts on 4k?

To whoever made the comment on the BMCC's audio... The audio on a DSLR is bad too. I haven't seen a camera company that put a fantastic mic in the camera. You have to buy a good microphone and maybe a beachtek or juiced link or use a separate audio solution and syncing in post. What camera are you really getting good audio from?

In the car interior shot, is that the mains power adapter lead you can see? And what lens did you use for that shot?

It's a 12mm SLR magic.

The lead is probably a HDMI lead to a transmitter for the director's split. I always run batteries.

It's a pocket camera and there's an Aaton GMT clock stuck to the top for TC.

@John Brawley ...No rig for protection...You are bold haha.

I've got a few dings in my cameras but they are pretty tough. The only thing' I've managed to break so far is the rubber grommet that protects the connectors on the side....it got ripped off on one of my cameras at some point...

JB

Would you like to stick your head in front of a camera and tell it like it is Frank? I'd like to see that! I'll get your back for you.....

Any time.
If you look at my blog - no advertising (though I have a lot of requests).
I don't have any sponsors, so I can say what I want without penalty.

In the car interior shot, is that the mains power adapter lead you can see? And what lens did you use for that shot?

It's a 12mm SLR magic.

The lead is probably a HDMI lead to a transmitter for the director's split. I always run batteries.

It's a pocket camera and there's an Aaton GMT clock stuck to the top for TC.

Damn that SLR magic is beast. My fav lens on my bmpcc.

Nice to see you using the bmc's without all the bells and whistles John, like the rest of us common folk, lol. I keep the viewfactor cage on my pocket all the time. The extra weight and wood grip makes it perfect for handheld with the 12mm slr magic.

The 1DC and GH4 are 8-bit H264 cameras. It puts them in a different league than the BMPC.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see how many people are willing to trade 10bit 4:2:2 or 12bit raw for 8bit 4:2:0, just to get 4k. That's assuming we get flooded with inexpensive, 4k, H.264/H.265 cameras this year.

Shawn

Actually, the GH4 IS a 10 bit 4:2:2 camera. You need an external recorder for it however, the internal card is compressed formats only. A GH4 can do pretty much everything a BMPC can do, but at two thirds the price (plus the cost of a recorder), perhaps less in the NA market.

I totally get the bitterness about the 4K: it is not BMD first camera anymore. It is normal to expect some improvement.
I still love my BMCC ... If the 4k had a better form factor, ims mount , button instead of touchscreen and implemented battery plate, I would have bought it without blinking.
Global shutter made me think twice ...but 12 stops dynamic range, worse low light and no DNXHD.... If you already own a bmcc , it is hard for me to see the point.
Half of TV channel still broadcasting in sd, bluray did not replace dvd yet, the most used digital camera in feature film is the arri alexa... I think 2.5k will be enough for a few year more.
Bashing is ridiculous , but it is fair to question what improvement indie film makers truly need. This pixel contest start to truly ruinning innovation in the low price market.

I haven't watched the interview.

Here are some shots from my large TV drama sets using the camera naked.

Clearly it can be done. Yeah it's not ideal. But you can do it.

The nice thing is that you CAN do it naked...ot you can pimp it up. Same goes for most cameras....

jb

L1006526.jpg

A_20131121_010355_L2ZU_l.jpg

2012-06-15 16.28.49.jpg

I'm more curious how those shots were light, specifically the back seat of the car. They all look like available light.

I totally get the bitterness about the 4K: it is not BMD first camera anymore. It is normal to expect some improvement.
I still love my BMCC ... If the 4k had a better form factor, ims mount , button instead of touchscreen and implemented battery plate, I would have bought it without blinking.
Global shutter made me think twice ...but 12 stops dynamic range, worse low light and no DNXHD.... If you already own a bmcc , it is hard for me to see the point.

Looks like you are in the market for a F55 plus Odysee

Why do you need DNXHD? ProRes is looking great on my PC.

DNxHD is not designed for 2k or 4k. Look it up.

I'm more curious how those shots were light, specifically the back seat of the car. They all look like available light.

Hi Sean....

The car shot....from memory I'd taped some unbleached muslin to the back of the driver seat and opened the sunroof a little.....and the actor had some more unbleached mus on their lap.....

The second shot....normally have a 1.2K Molebeam bounced into a hard mirror reflector with half CTS for the warmer slashes coming from camera left on the back wall....cooler ambience in the room is from a 4K HMI fres through half grid outside the window also on camera left.....I like to light through windows and from outside the set. Uuing the sun if I can with bounce or larger single sources..... It 's a more "natural" feel to me and means I can give more of the set to the cast for staging...

The last setup was all available....working with horses makes it difficult to use a lot of hardware.....

JB

Would you like to stick your head in front of a camera and tell it like it is Frank? I'd like to see that! I'll get your back for you.....

Any time.
If you look at my blog - no advertising (though I have a lot of requests).
I don't have any sponsors, so I can say what I want without penalty.

Thats one of the many reasons why I love you Frank! As an FS100 owner, you have pumped a lot of new life into my camera and many others. Although you have moved on, I still consider you the Father of the Picture Profile!

I'm more curious how those shots were light, specifically the back seat of the car. They all look like available light.

Hi Sean....

The car shot....from memory I'd taped some unbleached muslin to the back of the driver seat and opened the sunroof a little.....and the actor had some more unbleached mus on their lap.....

The second shot....normally have a 1.2K Molebeam bounced into a hard mirror reflector with half CTS for the warmer slashes coming from camera left on the back wall....cooler ambience in the room is from a 4K HMI fres through half grid outside the window also on camera left.....I like to light through windows and from outside the set. Uuing the sun if I can with bounce or larger single sources..... It 's a more "natural" feel to me and means I can give more of the set to the cast for staging...

The last setup was all available....working with horses makes it difficult to use a lot of hardware.....

JB

Thanks for the breakdown John!

... OK, now there're starting to whine about how the BMPC-4K isn't a "small" or cost-effective camera, and "requires" expensive add-ons to make it a useable system ... in the same breath they're talking about cams such as the Canon 1DC and the new Panasonic GH4!

Sigh. Where does one start? The BMPC-4K costs $3K. The 1DC starts at $12K, and to get good audio requires the same add-on gear as the BMPC-4K! An official price for the GH4 hasn't been announced yet, but it probably won't be much less than the BMPC-4K, and again, to get good audio requires the same add-on gear as the BMPC-4K!

Not to mention the very real, obvious advantages of the BMPC-4K over the other cameras (global shutter, higher real resolution, practically no aliasing/moire, "S35" sensor [compared to GH4 MFT], PreRes HQ & soon compressed RAW, cost-effective SSD media, full versions of Resolve & UltraScope software, built-in uninterruptible power supply [battery], blah, blah, blah ...)

If they would just focus on what's useful and good about each camera, and then afterwards discuss where there is room for improvement, everyone would be better off.

First and foremost, videographers and filmmakers need to know what the tools are good for. In most cases we can cost-effectively workaround shortcomings of the cams. What's important is showing and discussing what can be easily accomplished with these tools, instead of whining quite so much about what they can't do.

OK, now I'll finish listening to them jabber ...

... at the end of the video, to his credit, Philip grabs the BMPC-4K camera and tries to make off with it. So maybe there's hope after all.

-

I quite agree with you,
Not like a Camcorder, all these 4K cameras need lots of expensive add-ons like lens, memory cards, rigs new computer etc etc. With storage card being the most expensive and must have for any camera. With BMCC using SSD and ProRes, it seems to be one needing the least investment among the three camera you mention.
I recently tried out the BM4K at one of their road show, sure is a very good equipment, if you already own lots of EF lens and different camera accessories. Together with global shutter is a excellent for use in good light condition. Although I own a 1DC already (most accessories except the memory card will work with the BM4K), I already put the BM4K on the top of my shopping list this year.

The 1DC and GH4 are 8-bit H264 cameras. It puts them in a different league than the BMPC.

Perhaps different cameras than different leagues? All three have pros and cons. Different league implies something else. Epic, F55? Different league in prices and features.

Blackmagic give a number of terrific features for not a lot of money but lack a number of things, which I am sure nobody will disagree with, that hold them back from being great cameras.

It's just we get apologists saying "But its cheap" Yes it's cheap but that doesn't excuse the lack of utterly basic features. I don't expect an F55 for the money. I just want features that every single camera I have shot with, dirt cheap compacts included, to have. They can't be that hard to implement? If they did the camera would be SOOOOO much better!

P.S. if of any interest my initial review of footage.