Blackmagic Forum

Hi, i just want to say that it would be really awsome to have an update for our beloved camera software, that allow us to shoot in compressed format.

Sometimes, for very long recording that do not require extreme raw quality, or for small fast project for social media, the reality is that small size file even if compressed are a very good option.

For small studious that works 99% with small project, and have small budget, shooting already in a compressed format, ready to be archived, would be great.
I prefer at this point to decompress the h265 media while working at the project and then delete the optimized files forever, instead of compress all the big braw and prores files in h265 for archive, and delete the original.
Many of us already have to mix various compressed format in the editing anyway.

Recently, we saw the new BM camera with h264 proxy and the black magic app for iPhone with h265 recording along with prores.

Would those example open the road for a compressed file recording updatre for our cameras?

Reasonable request as an option for the shooter, but not sure it’s going to happen on the BMPCC4K and other Pocket cameras. The niche that Blackmagic Design has carved out is to offer a low cost “cinema camera.” BRAW, CinemaDNG, and usually ProRes 10/12 bit colour are the current tools of choice in providing lossless or visually lossless codecs produce each intra-frame that contains all the data. It can be amazing the beauty you can draw out of those codecs.

The compressed h.264/h.265 codecs can be high quality on their own but often make a lot of compromises to reduce their bitrate. It’s more likely to say you’re losing quality and the ability to create that beauty you now enjoy. Still good but… some tradeoff. I shoot lossless or visually lossless raw depending upon the demands on my recording devices.

I no longer permanently retain that huge amount of data, but I have it through the edit and amendment cycle. Of course I’m ultimately generating h.264/h.265 files for my clients and that’s good enough for acceptable output and their efficient consumption.

Ultimately the best codecs are the codecs that work best for your needs. Years ago I shot on camcorders for mostly personal family use and was very disappointed with what I could accomplish in post. When BMD introduced their new BMCC 2.5K camera in 2012, it was a sign the democratization of cinema cameras was coming where a small studio or individual was going to have the tools to fulfill their vision. I had followed all the hype from RED for years, but the costs of the products significantly exceeded their mission statement. When the UM4.6K was shown in 2015, it brought a tear to my eyes that I could begin the journey I’m still taking today. The road is paved with 12bit colour.

If you need that, get a hybrid, like Canon or Sony, or an iPhone 15.
It’s never going to happen for existing cameras from BM. Only they know what may come to the table during NAB.

The interesting thing about BMD's line of cameras is that—to my understanding—they build them around FPGAs instead of ASICs. This gives them some flexibility to make sweeping changes if they want to (e.g. swapping out CinemaDNG for BRAW) but FPGAs still have limits when it comes to the number of features you can implement at any given time. If the FPGAs in these cameras had spare resources, which I kinda doubt, it would still be a ton of work to cram another codec in there. I can practically guarantee this won't happen.

I'm curious though: how compressed do you need your footage to be? BRAW 12:1 generates very small files, and DCI/UHD ProRes Proxy files are even smaller. If you're okay with lower resolutions then you can get about an hour of ProRes Proxy 1080p on to a 16GB SDHC card. You have options if you just need oodles of record time with these bodies.

If BMD's gonna add any codec options, I would much rather have Cineform or DNx in the MXF format, myself.

Alex Mitchell wrote:The interesting thing about BMD's line of cameras is that—to my understanding—they build them around FPGAs instead of ASICs. This gives them some flexibility to make sweeping changes if they want to (e.g. swapping out CinemaDNG for BRAW) but FPGAs still have limits when it comes to the number of features you can implement at any given time. If the FPGAs in these cameras had spare resources, which I kinda doubt, it would still be a ton of work to cram another codec in there. I can practically guarantee this won't happen.

I'm curious though: how compressed do you need your footage to be? BRAW 12:1 generates very small files, and DCI/UHD ProRes Proxy files are even smaller. If you're okay with lower resolutions then you can get about an hour of ProRes Proxy 1080p on to a 16GB SDHC card. You have options if you just need oodles of record time with these bodies.

Basically the same bitrate others camera do with h265 format.
At the same bitrare of a 4k h.265 420 10bit i can have a crappy prores proxy at 1080p...
Unfortunately, BM cinema camera are not good if you want small high quality files.
You need to shoot in high quality, with high file size, and then convert for archive.
But it would be much less imbactful ant time consuming the reverse, for certain type of event.
Option are a good thing.
Anyway, too bad, it will never be possible.

Piiba_Manetta wrote:At the same bitrare of a 4k h.265 420 10bit i can have a crappy prores proxy at 1080p...

What? That's not true at all. Here are the actual numbers:

Panasonic S5 IIX:
4KDCI H265 4:2:0 10-bit - 200Mbps

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K:
4KDCI BRAW 12:1 - 227Mbps.
4KDCI ProRes Proxy - 142Mbps
1080p ProRes Proxy - 33Mbps

Sure, BRAW 12:1 is a 13% storage bump but you're getting a raw, 4:4:4, 12-bit codec for that difference. If you really need even more of a difference then 4K ProRes Proxy is always there.

Alex Mitchell wrote:

Piiba_Manetta wrote:At the same bitrare of a 4k h.265 420 10bit i can have a crappy prores proxy at 1080p...

What? That's not true at all. Here are the actual numbers:

Panasonic S5 IIX:
4KDCI H265 4:2:0 10-bit - 200Mbps

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K:
4KDCI BRAW 12:1 - 227Mbps.
4KDCI ProRes Proxy - 142Mbps
1080p ProRes Proxy - 33Mbps

Sure, BRAW 12:1 is a 13% storage bump but you're getting a raw, 4:4:4, 12-bit codec for that difference. If you really need even more of a difference then 4K ProRes Proxy is always there.

Not really.
Sony 4K H265 420 10 bit can be set at 45mbps.

Try to grade such crap and enjoy.

On my iPhone, I use 40 MB per second for UHD 30 fps, that's 240 mbps vs. your 45. Now that's quality to be graded to some extent, but still not like BRAW.

Uli Plank wrote:Try to grade such crap and enjoy.

On my iPhone, I use 40 MB per second for UHD 30 fps, that's 240 mbps vs. your 45. Now that's quality to be graded to some extent, but still not like BRAW.

A compressed codec is useful exactly because you don't want to grade it...

Of course. You want to send it out into the world, not work on it. They may even want to offer streaming services, as Sony does.