Blackmagic Pocket 6K G1 - Red Magenta shift

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Edwlandd

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Blackmagic Pocket 6K G1 - Red Magenta shift

PostThu Apr 04, 2024 3:50 pm

I wanted to see how the camera can handle high saturation reds and found that it is really struggling to render accurate color in this situation

Light source is a LED Panel set to 2800K
WB at 3200K

In ProRes - Film you can see a shift towards a desaturated magenta, here i'm using Gen 5 Film to Extended Video LUT

BRAW gives the same results with the same settings

After a lot of trying I found a way to have a decent red color accuracy, here's the following:

Camera raw:
Color space to ACES AP0
Gamma to ACEScct
Gamut Compression OFF

Nodes:
Gamut mapping (Tone mapping: None - Gamut Mapping: Saturation Comp. (Knee 0.9 - Max 0.65))
CST (Input same as camera raw - Output BMD Extended Video - Saturation Compression ON)

I wonder if in a future update this could be fixed to be able to have accurate reds while shooting in ProRes (still convenient to me for the smaller file size without crop factor)
Attachments
ProRes FIlm to Extended Video_1.2.1.jpg
ProRes Film to Extended Video
ProRes FIlm to Extended Video_1.2.1.jpg (297.83 KiB) Viewed 614 times
BRAW Aces to Extended Video (Gamut Mapping Node)_1.1.2.jpg
BRAW Aces to Extended Video
BRAW Aces to Extended Video (Gamut Mapping Node)_1.1.2.jpg (302.98 KiB) Viewed 614 times
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shebbe

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket 6K G1 - Red Magenta shift

PostFri Apr 05, 2024 6:01 pm

I understand your concern but it has nothing to do with prores vs braw or the accuracy of the camera.
Edwlandd wrote:I wanted to see how the camera can handle high saturation reds and found that it is really struggling to render accurate color in this situation
The camera, albeit witih some engineering sauce only captures light. The part that renders is the process of converting that data (when shot log or raw) to something the display can show in a meaningful way. This is for example the film to extended video lut you seem to dislike, a CST or tons of other colormanagment systems or LUTs out there.

If you want to know a bit more around this and find a good approach for your needs you should probably relay this question in the Resolve forum board instead.
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shebbe

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket 6K G1 - Red Magenta shift

PostFri Apr 05, 2024 6:13 pm

Oh and btw, if not mistaken, when shooting prores, the camera’s gamut compression ( the one that can be toggled on BRAW) is always enabled which tends to be quite aggresive. It is still on the rendering to display side that this appearance looks magenta and pale compared to real life.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket 6K G1 - Red Magenta shift

PostFri Apr 05, 2024 10:12 pm

Good advice.
To add a few thoughts:
All CMOS sensors are not very good at traditional Tungsten light, that's why we have the current move to artificial lighting with daylight spectrum.
And then, LED sources can have a pretty bad spectrum if not top quality.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket 6K G1 - Red Magenta shift

PostSat Apr 06, 2024 4:36 pm

Uli Plank wrote: And then, LED sources can have a pretty bad spectrum if not top quality.

This video has some great examples and explanation of the spectral limitations in LED lighting:


As others have noted, the post processing color pipeline is what determines how what the sensor is able to record will be displayed. Making explicit choices in the color pipeline is absolutely necessary to get your preferred result on screen. Leaving any camera at the manufacturer default is also a choice. If you don’t like the color delivered by the manufacturer default, use a different post color pipeline.

EDIT: Looking at the original post again, it's worth noting that in Gen5 ProRes recordings on the 4K and 6K BMD Pocket cameras, gamut compression is baked in. It has a particularly noticeable impact on saturated red. When recording in BRAW, the gamut compression can be turned off in the raw decode options in post. Though in many cases, you'll often need some form of gamut compression at some point in the pipeline to control how saturated sources are displayed. If you really want to go down the rabbit hole on it, take a look at the threads on the ACES forum and read along as experts wrestle with gamut compression in the new ACES 2.0 output display transforms.
Last edited by Jamie LeJeune on Sat Apr 06, 2024 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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John Brawley

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket 6K G1 - Red Magenta shift

PostSat Apr 06, 2024 5:52 pm

The colour of light you want to capture has to exist in the light you’re shining on the object you want to photograph.

As others have said LED can have gaps in its spectrum that might reduce how much of that colour can be reflected.

Some super saturated colours (think Car tail lights, exit signs) can also be problematic for any camera to reproduce accurately.

You’ll also find the highest bit depths have more chroma resolution in this extreme areas. So 12bit braw vs 10 bit prores for example. 10 bit puts all the information on the middle and has less detail in the extremes of spectrum.

Blue green cyan areas are where you see larger differences between Alexa and BMD for example.

All cameras are imperfect.

You could try a different light source, either daylight or tungsten based lighting (hot filaments)

Also look up metamerism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamerism_(color)

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