Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

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ghostmomo

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Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostFri Mar 21, 2014 11:13 am

Hi fellow video/cinegraphers!

I'm on 5D2 and 60D for the past 3 years, and finally decided to get this Pocket in order to practise color grading and shoot more 'visual' videos with more stops of dynamic range.
I have bought a couple of MFT lens for it (together with Olympus PEN PL5 to cover photos), and when the camera arrived yesterday, I was shocked to see a dead white DOT on the screen (in the center).
I tried updating latest firmware, with no luck, it is still 'dead'.

When I click on FOCUS twice to activate the focus peaking, the white dot becomes green.
The dot also appears on every video at exact same location, so it is indeed from the sensor.
Is this the legendary 'hot pixel'? Or it is even better - a DEAD pixel?
Can I return this camera to change into a functional one, directly with BM company? (P.S. I bought it new in Paris, but I live in Spain) I'm afraid my dealer won't replace it for me.

Since I am stuck with all the MFT lenses I purchased originally for Pocket, I can't afford selling everything and go for a C100 at the moment. Do you think I shall get a GH4 or OMD EM5 or EM1? What MFT B cameras would you use?

Thanks very much!
Attachments
IMG_0770.JPG
A dot dead pixel in the center of screen and sensor.
IMG_0770.JPG (777.9 KiB) Viewed 2490 times
Last edited by ghostmomo on Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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David Dearing

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostFri Mar 21, 2014 1:57 pm

That is the "hottest" pixel I ever heard of. Typically a hot pixel is simply one that is "overly sensitive" compared to the pixels on the rest of the chip. In a 10 bit environment, for example, the pixel will register 50-100 higher than the surrounding pixels. As the chip gets hotter, or the sensitivity multiplier is increased (ISO moved higher than native) the register value increase of the hot pixel will be greater.

But it usually doesn't matter. All DSLRs have dozens, if not hundreds of "hot pixels". But they only show up when the image is severely stretched or the camera is being used in low light and in a hot air temperature environment.

What you have is a pixel that appears to have a "stuck" register value, which is very strange. If you increase or decrease the exposure and/or iSO/ASA, does the dot change at all? And this is in the footage going to the card, right? Not just on your LCD screen? Very strange.
David Dearing
DJI Mavic Pro
BMPCC w/12-35mm Lumix HD
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ghostmomo

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostFri Mar 21, 2014 2:20 pm

Thanks for your reply! This pixel thingy is stuck not only on screen, but also in the footage (see attachment, I made a circle around the pixel).
What I am very afraid is, no matter what I do firmware-wise, it would not go away. I could not even describe this problem to the Customer Service because it is really not a problem they normally handle.
Do you think it is obviously a falty? :shock:
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Screen shot 2014-03-20 at 9.28.53.jpg
Screen shot 2014-03-20 at 9.28.53.jpg (648.24 KiB) Viewed 2446 times
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David Dearing

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostFri Mar 21, 2014 3:54 pm

I'd definitely send it back. The way a CMOS is read is by sending down information in columns, sort of like passing the ball down a line. The bigger the ball, the brighter the pixel. Since there is no visible column defect, you've got the weirdest pixel I've ever heard of. It's like the pixel won't discharge when the power is gone- so the ball stays super big, so to speak, which is electronically impossible (I thought...).

Try removing the battery and letting it sit for a couple days. If it's still there, you've go the weirdest CMOS I've ever seen.

Or, send it back. I'd send it back. lol
David Dearing
DJI Mavic Pro
BMPCC w/12-35mm Lumix HD
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ghostmomo

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostFri Mar 21, 2014 4:14 pm

Wow, now it sounds super strange to me too, as you explained.
Is it even possible to be a 'dust' that appears to be white, and happens to change color when I press focus peaking? :cry:
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DanBaldwin

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostFri Mar 21, 2014 6:12 pm

ghostmomo wrote:Wow, now it sounds super strange to me too, as you explained.
Is it even possible to be a 'dust' that appears to be white, and happens to change color when I press focus peaking? :cry:


As far as if it is dust or not, I would see how the footage changes with different aperture settings
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ghostmomo

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostSat Mar 22, 2014 12:01 am

I'm so awfully tired of this: I tried difference settings, shutter angle, lens, settings etc. It still shows very bright white DOT in the center of all my images... Here I put a very small test:

The dot is visible on fullscreen. :cry:
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David Dearing

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostSat Mar 22, 2014 12:06 pm

Focus peaking looks for high contrast, so if your pixel is staying white while everything else isn't, it's going to show peaking- which is why you need to send this back. For whatever reason you have a stuck pixel. I did some quick research and found out that stuck pixels are actually somewhat common with CMOS sensors in consumer/prosumer cameras. I did not know that. Actually, since it is a color CMOS, the pixel should be colored instead of white, so it's a little baffling... What happens if you zoom in on the picture, can you see it?

As I've said before in other threads, these cameras, along with DSLRs, most ENG cameras that cost under $25k, and all consumer cameras use Class B sensors. So they all have known defects. Its just a crap shoot on which defect you get (though most manufactures bench test the chips before they use them and weed out ones with visible defects). Since the vast majority of defects are not visible unless the camera is being used in extreme conditions, or is being processed to the extreme, it's not a big deal. But you seem to have caught one with a stuck pixel.

According to my research, the stuck pixel will eventually go away. Try setting your camera at the lowest ISO/ASA. That might cause it to discharge. If it doesn't, remove the battery and let it sit for a day or two. If it were me and that didn't work, I'd send it back. Or call the place you purchased it and ask them their suggestion. Tell them you've got a stuck pixel that is showing up as white.
David Dearing
DJI Mavic Pro
BMPCC w/12-35mm Lumix HD
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Mac Jaeger

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostSat Mar 22, 2014 12:33 pm

c131frdave wrote:According to my research, the stuck pixel will eventually go away. Try setting your camera at the lowest ISO/ASA.

As promising as this sounds, i don't think this will work. Unlike other cmos cameras, setting the ISO in BMD cameras does not change the analogue amplifiers, instead it's just a different digital calculation.
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Adam Jeal

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostSat Mar 22, 2014 8:29 pm

ghostmomo wrote:Thanks for your reply! This pixel thingy is stuck not only on screen, but also in the footage (see attachment, I made a circle around the pixel).
What I am very afraid is, no matter what I do firmware-wise, it would not go away. I could not even describe this problem to the Customer Service because it is really not a problem they normally handle.
Do you think it is obviously a falty? :shock:


Oh BMD know about this problem, trust me. I have had six pocket cameras so far (three lots of x2) and they have all been absolutely peppered with stuck pixels/hot pixels. Anything from around 20 or 30 to literally hundreds of them (four out of my 6 have had hundreds of them).

It's curious that you only the have one pixel, but of course, it's still no good. You should absolutely send it back.

It really is a lottery as to whether or not you actually get a camera that is unaffected. BMD's quality control and support (in my case, and in many others) has been useless.

I'm currently waiting on BMPCC's number 7 and 8 - Never have I had this amount of grief with a camera, ever!

Adam
Adam Jeal
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ghostmomo

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostSat Mar 22, 2014 11:57 pm

Hi Adam,
It sounds really unlucky, but not purely 'casuality'. I bought several cameras for personal or work (full frame, APSC, Micro 4/3, Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus), never had a single bad pixel.
For the last days I would wake up, check on the Pocket, and see the bad pixel still there... :cry:
Then thinking about returning it... what if when it arrives at BMD, the pixel 'unstuck' itself? :roll:
Ah.... :|
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Scott Pultz

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostSun Mar 23, 2014 2:35 am

This is where the full version of resolve with a slight amount of chroma noise reduction comes in. It cleans up a lot of these issues and eliminates the hot pixel problem from what I can tell. Of course you need the software and the processing power...

Too bad these cameras don't map out the pixels the way other cameras do.
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ghostmomo

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 10:06 am

I called the shop in Paris about my defected camera thy sold me, they told me it is not theor problem and I must deal with BMD directly. Does it mean I have to pay for the shippings?
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ghostmomo

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostTue Mar 25, 2014 11:10 am

Adam Jeal wrote:I'm currently waiting on BMPCC's number 7 and 8 - Never have I had this amount of grief with a camera, ever!

Adam


Hi Adam,
Here from Spain to UK postage is expensive, if I change 4 times, I could buy myself a new micro 4/3 camera which shoots 1080P video! Did you have to pay for the postage? :o
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ghostmomo

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostMon Apr 14, 2014 9:42 am

They changed it for me, now I am on my 2nd Pocket. However this one has a dead pixel (appearing like green dot) on the top left screen, not on sensor but only on the screen. :roll: :roll:
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Alex Klutchevski

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostMon Apr 14, 2014 10:16 am

I got 2 pixels on screen too. But I don't care, cause what I've pay'd is what I get. Cheap screen anyway isn't good for work.
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Paul J. Bates

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Re: Is this how 'Pocket Camera Hot Pixel' look like?

PostMon Apr 14, 2014 3:08 pm

Why in Gods name does anyone put up with this crap? Go buy a Sony, or a Canon or a GoPro, you"ll spend a lot more time shooting and a lot less time fooling around with equipment that is not fit for purpose.

I expect my ban from this forum forthwith, however someone has to speak the truth, they shot Luther King for doing so, so go ahead, shoot me.

Paul :-)

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