NAB 2014 bmcc update

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Theodore Prentice

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostWed Mar 26, 2014 6:22 pm

NYCcomposer wrote:
I wonder if we were all more forgiving and understanding, if they mightn't communicate more with us?



so actually PAYING for the products isnt enough to warrant a little common courtesy from the company?
We have to come bootlicking to get any type of response?

There are other forums where manufactures have had reps that have delt with a far more "angrier crowd", besides MOST of the people here are forgiving and understanding, so I guess there goes that notion.

I dont think it has anything to do with the tone of these forums, (if it did BMD would report over on bmcuser)- they honestly probably just dont have the resources to commit to such a task
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John Palaganas

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostWed Mar 26, 2014 6:26 pm

Truemotion wrote:From BMD i'l just looking for an 3-4k pocket with global shutter, thats all I want. All other things doesn't make so much sense for me.

6K 65mm sensor pocket version would be great.

The new Alexa needs competition.
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Kyle Gordon

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostWed Mar 26, 2014 6:29 pm

In my belief, it's not a matter of courtesy, or fear on the part of Blackmagic.

If they had a working firmware upgrade, they'd release it, so it stands to reason that they are still working on it.

There are two scenarios:

1) They tell us as they go, give us insight into things that are not yet fixed, but being worked on, and a rough timetable best guess at when they might occur. In other words they communicate well and openly.

Then, something doesn't go according to plan. Things take longer, or unexpected issues arise.

Then we all start getting agitated. "But you SAID it would happen by XYZ date" and all the anger occurs that we see in here all the time.

so then they take approach...

2) They don't say ANYTHING, and work on things until they're ready so no one can say they are breaking promises.

And that is why too much rabble rousing is unproductive. But it's probably too late and human nature anyway, so we wait in darkness.

And again, just because we differ in our style of waiting doesn't mean we aren't all still waiting.
Kyle Gordon
Professional Singer/Composer/Producer and Director/Editor/Colorist
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Theodore Prentice

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostWed Mar 26, 2014 6:33 pm

NYCcomposer wrote:In my belief, it's not a matter of courtesy,


when you tell someone that you have something for them, and tell them they will have it "soon", it is courteous to answer them when they inquire about it.

but i digress
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Eugene Carter

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostWed Mar 26, 2014 6:44 pm

I think the worst thing they can do is announce another camera at NAB.

We've been waiting for an update for well over a year that will address issues with the first camera. Now they have major issues with the 4k and Tony mentioned in very recent thread that they don't even know how to fix that yet. So we have haven't had a fix for any of the issues with the original camera, the pocket has major QC issues with hot pixels and now they're taking heat from 4k customers.

I think they owe it to the BMCC customers to update us as to the status of the promised update. I asked Tony for a status update in a thread recently and of course it was ignored, even though he posted just above me. I guess at this point we have to wait for NAB, but if we don't have any news by then, I can see a $h!^ storm coming their way. I have never seen a company with communication this bad, ever.

I have no doubt people would go easier on BMD if they would communicate. Stringing customers on for almost 2 years, is not good business. As was said by other members, I just want to know what is coming or get some idea of what to expect on the BMCC. I was actually thinking about selling it for a pocket, because that seems it would fit my needs better, but at this point, I'm at my wits end with this company. I really was rooting for them, but I'm appalled by the customer service and communication I've seen with not only the product I purchased, but others as well.

Not cool.
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Scott Pultz

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostWed Mar 26, 2014 9:16 pm

It's possible that the fixes people want simply aren't possible with the current hardware design. If so only a new camera and moving forward will be the fix. It would be nice to know that either way however.
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shanepeters@bellsouth.net

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 1:05 am

joechiazza wrote:Ok well keep whining about the update. I personally don't care. I like the camera as is.


if you really don't care then keep your condescending comments to yourself and avoid these type of threads. leave it to those of us who do care.
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joechiazza

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 2:34 am

shanepeters@bellsouth.net wrote:
joechiazza wrote:Ok well keep whining about the update. I personally don't care. I like the camera as is.


if you really don't care then keep your condescending comments to yourself and avoid these type of threads. leave it to those of us who do care.


Um, no. I'm not going to keep it to myself. Like 75% of the posts on this forum are people complaining about updates. I mean, get over it already. When they release them, they'll release them. If you don't like the camera then buy something that will work for you better. I mean, yeah, it'll be nice when they come out and I'm excited but I'm not going to constantly bring it up on the forum every 10 minutes.
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shanepeters@bellsouth.net

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 4:11 am

Fair enough. and if you also choose to not jump into every thread in which people are asking for an update from the company who owes them properly functioning cameras as promised, then you don't have to see what you call "whining". I mean really....are you trolling around looking for these threads? You might not appreciate reading them, but those of us who are vocal about this silent approach to customer service don't appreciate being called whiners and complainers by someone who supposedly "doesn't care".

BTW...I, and many others on this forum do not support or posses your "quitter" attitude. Just buy something else...really? Hey guys, just toss away the money you spent on your cam last year (since BMD has devalued it by at least $1000) and go find something else...it's only money, right? What a crappy attitude. I certainly hope BMD does not have this attitude towards us, but their lack of communication and delivery makes it appear so. If you are offering to buy my camera from me, you are welcome to it. The price is $3000....the exact amount I paid for it, and you will receive it with the exact functionality it had when I got it.....
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joechiazza

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 4:18 am

Dude...BMD knows everyone wants updates. Continuously bringing it up complaining about it on this forum is a complete waste. They have their direct support contact information on their website, notify them on there.

and Yes I do like being a part of this forum because there are a few professionals here that don't complain about updates that actually have very useful posts that help people grow and use the camera better.

I also do want updates, but IMHO the camera delivers what it states on their website. Yes, It will be nice when they release the updates but for now the camera has made me a ton of money, I have super happy customers and overall I'm satisfied with its performance. I have faith that they are working on them and when they are ready they will release them to us. And I think everyone will be happy about them too.

Until then, I'll just keep shooting and enjoying what I purchased as is.
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ClaytonMoore

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 6:39 am

A cynic could think that the price drops were to “try” and makeup for updates that they may not deliver. However ….. NAB is a big deal for them and the competition is feeling the heat as well. Stakes are very high right now. Whatever BMD does this year, a miss-step could cost them. Either way its clear their credibility gets damaged if they promise and don't deliver. Its in everyones best interest that they stay focused and deliver on whatever it is they - kinda sorta - promised.

Here is a crazy way out of the box thought …….. :roll: :idea:

……..We forget how many cool video gadgets they sell. What if they had NEW smaller and camera specific add-ons up their sleeve. Things that might add functionality to the camera without adding to much more bulk and weight, things that might work with any BM camera and replace ___ whatever ___ off the firmware wish list. Imagine just for a moment a company branded EVF for $399 or a NEW external battery design more in physical form to an iPhone battery and ramps to a full charge in 30 min. How about a proprietary (camera specific) SDI to HDMI adapter with a low profile that was cable stress relief friendly. What if Zacuto said “Hey we also have a motorized servo zoom adapter designed for the BMCC” - of course it has a BMD logo on it. What if instead of a free firmware update they offered an affordable paid upgrade that rolled in most of what was being asked for and resulted in a vastly more powerful camera, something that included a new auto-focus technology to go head to head with Canon's Dual Pixel?

I know, put down the adult beverage and step away from the computer - LOL!!!
Last edited by ClaytonMoore on Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Samjack

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 6:41 am

joechiazza wrote:Dude...BMD knows everyone wants updates. Continuously bringing it up complaining about it on this forum is a complete waste. They have their direct support contact information on their website, notify them on there.

and Yes I do like being a part of this forum because there are a few professionals here that don't complain about updates that actually have very useful posts that help people grow and use the camera better.

I also do want updates, but IMHO the camera delivers what it states on their website. Yes, It will be nice when they release the updates but for now the camera has made me a ton of money, I have super happy customers and overall I'm satisfied with its performance. I have faith that they are working on them and when they are ready they will release them to us. And I think everyone will be happy about them too.

Until then, I'll just keep shooting and enjoying what I purchased as is.


Actually I disagree your view about taking up any proposal of feature update to avoid posting on forum and only take up up privately. By bringing it up in forum and discussing it others could chip in and customer opinions can form about it. A publicity being generated is far better and put pressure to motivate a company far more than private communication that probably never get out.
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joechiazza

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 6:43 am

Samjack wrote:
joechiazza wrote:Dude...BMD knows everyone wants updates. Continuously bringing it up complaining about it on this forum is a complete waste. They have their direct support contact information on their website, notify them on there.

and Yes I do like being a part of this forum because there are a few professionals here that don't complain about updates that actually have very useful posts that help people grow and use the camera better.

I also do want updates, but IMHO the camera delivers what it states on their website. Yes, It will be nice when they release the updates but for now the camera has made me a ton of money, I have super happy customers and overall I'm satisfied with its performance. I have faith that they are working on them and when they are ready they will release them to us. And I think everyone will be happy about them too.

Until then, I'll just keep shooting and enjoying what I purchased as is.


Actually I disagree your view about taking up any proposal of feature update to avoid posting on forum and only take up up privately. By bringing it up in forum and discussing it others could chip in and customer opinions can form about it. A publicity being generated is far better and put pressure to motivate a company far more than private communication that probably never get out.


It's not that I don't think it's a good idea to discuss. But ITS BEEN DONE. Over and over. EVERY DAY! Every week.
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AdrianSierkowski

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 7:53 am

Going through your reps to the company directly has, at least for me with a few vendors minus one or two, almost always been a better route. Especially if you get your friends to join in. Not saying the forums aren't also valid, but forums usually don't have the same types of followup that a system like Remedy will have--and I can almost guarantee you they're using something like Remedy in their tech support. Oh god,the horrors of Remedy et al!
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Jim Cullen

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 10:22 am

Get over it already?...'already'?

joechiazza wrote:
shanepeters@bellsouth.net wrote:
joechiazza wrote:Ok well keep whining about the update. I personally don't care. I like the camera as is.


if you really don't care then keep your condescending comments to yourself and avoid these type of threads. leave it to those of us who do care.


Um, no. I'm not going to keep it to myself. Like 75% of the posts on this forum are people complaining about updates. I mean, get over it already. When they release them, they'll release them. If you don't like the camera then buy something that will work for you better. I mean, yeah, it'll be nice when they come out and I'm excited but I'm not going to constantly bring it up on the forum every 10 minutes.
Jim Cullen
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Jim Cullen

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 10:27 am

Cullen wrote:I agree, it's fair enough to complain about the firmware issue, but 'get over it already'. Hadn't heard 'already' used like that until I watched Breaking Bad. American English and English English are like continents drifting apart (all in good humour by the way!).


Um, no. I'm not going to keep it to myself. Like 75% of the posts on this forum are people complaining about updates. I mean, get over it already. When they release them, they'll release them. If you don't like the camera then buy something that will work for you better. I mean, yeah, it'll be nice when they come out and I'm excited but I'm not going to constantly bring it up on the forum every 10 minutes.
[/quote]
Jim Cullen
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shanepeters@bellsouth.net

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 10:48 am

joechiazza wrote:
I also do want updates, but IMHO the camera delivers what it states on their website.


Perhaps then we both are looking at different websites....because the one I am reading promises internal Professional audio recording and internal rec709 color, both of which are currently not functioning properly.
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joechiazza

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 11:36 am

shanepeters@bellsouth.net wrote:
joechiazza wrote:
I also do want updates, but IMHO the camera delivers what it states on their website.


Perhaps then we both are looking at different websites....because the one I am reading promises internal Professional audio recording and internal rec709 color, both of which are currently not functioning properly.

I've actually never used "Video mode" ever. So that may be something. But I do use the bmcc sound recorder all the time. And with a good mic and preamp, the audio is crystal clear. Really saves me a lot of time in post not having to sync up audio.
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Samjack

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 4:17 pm

Geoff Baxter wrote:
Samjack wrote:A publicity being generated is far better and put pressure to motivate a company far more than private communication that probably never get out.


Yes, and it is working, is it not? <Sound of crickets>


What are you talking about?
Your other post about me and Kinefinity was also a mystery :roll:
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Samjack

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 4:20 pm

joechiazza wrote:
Samjack wrote:
joechiazza wrote:Dude...BMD knows everyone wants updates. Continuously bringing it up complaining about it on this forum is a complete waste. They have their direct support contact information on their website, notify them on there.

and Yes I do like being a part of this forum because there are a few professionals here that don't complain about updates that actually have very useful posts that help people grow and use the camera better.

I also do want updates, but IMHO the camera delivers what it states on their website. Yes, It will be nice when they release the updates but for now the camera has made me a ton of money, I have super happy customers and overall I'm satisfied with its performance. I have faith that they are working on them and when they are ready they will release them to us. And I think everyone will be happy about them too.

Until then, I'll just keep shooting and enjoying what I purchased as is.


Actually I disagree your view about taking up any proposal of feature update to avoid posting on forum and only take up up privately. By bringing it up in forum and discussing it others could chip in and customer opinions can form about it. A publicity being generated is far better and put pressure to motivate a company far more than private communication that probably never get out.


It's not that I don't think it's a good idea to discuss. But ITS BEEN DONE. Over and over. EVERY DAY! Every week.


And guess what, it is having an effect is it not?
If nobody talk about an issue others may not believe it is a problem or that we need it. While some may pass along requests to BMD but others don't know about what they are missing and stick with what they got I will bet there would be a lot less peoplpe letting BMD know what they want.
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joechiazza

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 4:25 pm

I'm done arguing with you. You're absolutely right. I'm sure if people didn't constantly complain about updates in the 'cinematography' forum nothing would ever get fixed.
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Theodore Prentice

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 8:28 pm

@joechiazza
think of the guy wanting to buy a bmcc, to shoot rec709 because they arent familiar with "log" and raw isnt within their current workflow ability.

They buy the camera and are upset to find out reds arent really..
Audio isnt what is promised on the box...

(or white orbs, or flanges not at the right measurement, or fpn, or....)

What you call b*tching, others call feedback. And it may save somebody a bit of hard earned scratch when they set out to make a major purchase.
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joechiazza

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 8:50 pm

Theodore Prentice wrote:@joechiazza
think of the guy wanting to buy a bmcc, to shoot rec709 because they arent familiar with "log" and raw isnt within their current workflow ability.

They buy the camera and are upset to find out reds arent really..
Audio isnt what is promised on the box...

(or white orbs, or flanges not at the right measurement, or fpn, or....)

What you call b*tching, others call feedback. And it may save somebody a bit of hard earned scratch when they set out to make a major purchase.

The shortcomings of this camera are WELL documented and in about 100 reviews online. You don't research cameras before you buy them? This is a cinema camera. Period. If you were only shooting rec709 I would recommend a standard dslr.
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Fahnon Bennett

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 9:13 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:
NYCcomposer wrote:I wonder if we were all more forgiving and understanding, if they mightn't communicate more with us?


Definitely yes. I wouldn't mind if they tell us: "this and that is not possible, we tried, but can't fix it". At least I wouldn't have to ride on the pony of hope anymore.

I totally understand, that some things can't be improved, changed, fixed - as long as it is communicated by BMD. But just saying "wait, we are working on something but have no idea if and when it will be done and can't tell you on what we are working" - this just feels like someone tries to let me not go although the relationship has been broken.


I agree. I think most of us would calm down if they would communicate with us in a visible, official way (not on random threads no one can find). Just tell us what's what.
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Theodore Prentice

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 9:37 pm

joechiazza wrote:The shortcomings of this camera are WELL documented and in about 100 reviews online. You don't research cameras before you buy them? This is a cinema camera. Period. If you were only shooting rec709 I would recommend a standard dslr.


Yeah, because if you want to use one of the features of the camera that is broken, just remember, its a cinema camera!!

Bologna.
Thanks any way joechiazza
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joechiazza

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 9:55 pm

Theodore Prentice wrote:
joechiazza wrote:The shortcomings of this camera are WELL documented and in about 100 reviews online. You don't research cameras before you buy them? This is a cinema camera. Period. If you were only shooting rec709 I would recommend a standard dslr.


Yeah, because if you want to use one of the features of the camera that is broken, just remember, its a cinema camera!!

Bologna.
Thanks any way joechiazza

Broken? Really?
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bhook

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 11:20 pm

joechiazza wrote:This is a cinema camera. Period.


You deserve a prize for being the 10,000th person to say that. I especially like the way you say it...as if it has a meaning of some sort. SMH.
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Tony Rivera

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostThu Mar 27, 2014 11:43 pm

I feel like I'm repeating myself why I say this but:

You're all welcome to talk about our products and offer your thoughts/suggestions but the bickering back and forth with name calling will not be tolerated. Please folks, just keep it about the products and not insulting each other. Otherwise, the thread will be locked.
Support: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support
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Eugene Carter

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 12:40 am

It's a shame that just about the only time we get to see the green names is to repeat the above. Would be nice if we could actually have some communication on the issues many of your customers would like addressed.

Rude

Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 3:08 am

shanepeters@bellsouth.net wrote:
Rude wrote:I'm looking forward to firmware updates but you all people are forgetting what you paid for. My BMCC cost me $1999 and still I can't believe the amazing image quality and Resolve too....it is insane....

Probably I spent another $3000 with my old Nikon primes and zooms, rigs, mini converter, pelican case etc.....

I'm happy. Do I want more? Of course... we always want more, but remember what you paid.

8-)


I remember what i paid...$1000.00 more than u....and i still have a cam with hampered audio and inaccurate color.


So why did you buy this cam. Buy a canon c300, spend $15.000 and be happy. Do you want more, buy a red or alexa. $3000 won't give you everything you want.
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joechiazza

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 3:10 am

Rude wrote:
shanepeters@bellsouth.net wrote:
Rude wrote:I'm looking forward to firmware updates but you all people are forgetting what you paid for. My BMCC cost me $1999 and still I can't believe the amazing image quality and Resolve too....it is insane....

Probably I spent another $3000 with my old Nikon primes and zooms, rigs, mini converter, pelican case etc.....

I'm happy. Do I want more? Of course... we always want more, but remember what you paid.

8-)


I remember what i paid...$1000.00 more than u....and i still have a cam with hampered audio and inaccurate color.


So why did you buy this cam. Buy a canon c300, spend $15.000 and be happy. Do you want more, buy a red or alexa. $3000 won't give you everything you want.

Agreed 100%
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Dustin Boswell

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 3:14 am

Rude wrote:
shanepeters@bellsouth.net wrote:
Rude wrote:I'm looking forward to firmware updates but you all people are forgetting what you paid for. My BMCC cost me $1999 and still I can't believe the amazing image quality and Resolve too....it is insane....

Probably I spent another $3000 with my old Nikon primes and zooms, rigs, mini converter, pelican case etc.....

I'm happy. Do I want more? Of course... we always want more, but remember what you paid.

8-)


I remember what i paid...$1000.00 more than u....and i still have a cam with hampered audio and inaccurate color.


So why did you buy this cam. Buy a canon c300, spend $15.000 and be happy. Do you want more, buy a red or alexa. $3000 won't give you everything you want.


*Highfive*
"Fix it in Prep"- 1st A.D.'s Motto
Dustin Boswell
Director/Writer and periodically Camera Department.
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Jules Bushell

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 3:18 am

NYCcomposer wrote:I also agree that the communication has been awful. I wonder if the fact that we all get so upset is part of why they are reluctant to say ANYTHING until they know with certainty what will and won't work.

I wonder if we were all more forgiving and understanding, if they mightn't communicate more with us?

BMD been around for twenty plus years. I think it's just their company culture over all these years to not speculate much about what they are doing or what's coming up.

These user forums I believe bear little significance to their day to day operations. We just inflate the significance in our own minds.

Jules
Jules Bushell
url: www.nonmultiplexcinema.com
url: www.filmmeansbusiness.com
url: www.blurtheline.co.uk

Rude

Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 3:27 am

joechiazza wrote:Dude...BMD knows everyone wants updates. Continuously bringing it up complaining about it on this forum is a complete waste. They have their direct support contact information on their website, notify them on there.

and Yes I do like being a part of this forum because there are a few professionals here that don't complain about updates that actually have very useful posts that help people grow and use the camera better.

I also do want updates, but IMHO the camera delivers what it states on their website. Yes, It will be nice when they release the updates but for now the camera has made me a ton of money, I have super happy customers and overall I'm satisfied with its performance. I have faith that they are working on them and when they are ready they will release them to us. And I think everyone will be happy about them too.

Until then, I'll just keep shooting and enjoying what I purchased as is.


Myself too I want updates but I do not complain and I see a lot of people, coming from the digital world that have no idea. I come from a world where I was a camera trainee, then loader, then 2nd camera assistant and then focus puller.

I used to load 400 feet and 1000 feet rolls of films into magazines in a black bag on the back of a track. You don't record sound on the camera, unless you are a videographer. Buy a video camera.

If you worked with real cameras like Panavision, Arri 435, 535, Aaton, etc...you appreciate so much this little cheap cam...is great!

BTY, still I have my 16mm Bolex ebm electric....
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joechiazza

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 3:33 am

Rude wrote:
joechiazza wrote:Dude...BMD knows everyone wants updates. Continuously bringing it up complaining about it on this forum is a complete waste. They have their direct support contact information on their website, notify them on there.

and Yes I do like being a part of this forum because there are a few professionals here that don't complain about updates that actually have very useful posts that help people grow and use the camera better.

I also do want updates, but IMHO the camera delivers what it states on their website. Yes, It will be nice when they release the updates but for now the camera has made me a ton of money, I have super happy customers and overall I'm satisfied with its performance. I have faith that they are working on them and when they are ready they will release them to us. And I think everyone will be happy about them too.

Until then, I'll just keep shooting and enjoying what I purchased as is.


Myself too I want updates but I do not complain and I see a lot of people, coming from the digital world that have no idea. I come from a world where I was a camera trainee, then loader, then 2nd camera assistant and then focus puller.

I used to load 400 feet and 1000 feet rolls of films into magazines in a black bag on the back of a track. You don't record sound on the camera, unless you are a videographer. Buy a video camera.

If you worked with real cameras like Panavision, Arri 435, 535, Aaton, etc...you appreciate so much this little cheap cam...is great!

BTY, still I have my 16mm Bolex ebm electric....


This is my point exactly. I thought I was all alone and going crazy here.
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RB3tv

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 6:52 am

It sounds as if you're saying, "well, since it used to be a pita and we worked around the problems, "back in the day," we should be thankful for the pita problems we have today?

The nostalgia is quite comical. Basically, you had to walk 10 miles to school in the snow uphill both ways so be thankful that a bus comes to pick you up, but unfortunately the bus lacks features and doesn't get us to school either...

The issues at hand are purely public relations and communications with BMD. I bought the BMCC last August and shortly thereafter received an email from Grant saying new firmware was being worked on.

I thought he meant within a few weeks, a month at most. It's about to be April 2014, NAB time and have not heard another peep.

If I am working on a project with you from last year and tell you I'm working hard, etc, and you don't hear back from me again until, well, never, and its about to be April of the following year, what would you say of my professionalism?

Would you say?
A: No problem, take as much time as you need. Even though I haven't heard a peep out of you, if you need 25 years to work it out, then by all means do so because you are a swell guy.

B: Inquire as to why it's taking so long; I haven't hear a peep as to why we are about to get new calendars for the year and I have Zero information from you on our project status. It's vaporware.

C: Outright complain about how I told you I've got great things coming, and not only didn't deliver the product I explained to you last year, but haven't heard from you about it since our first meeting.

I personally have stopped recommending BM products to friends/colleagues and one of those friends said, "yes, I heard they have a reputation for vaporware." He has a larger budget and went with a Red package instead.

One thing I am thankful for BM is the competition aspect to make other companies take notice and compete in the same budget/feature range. It will give me time to use up my BMCC's lifespan and see what the next gen stuff will do; in all likely-hood, it won't be a BM product though. The lack of communication is inexcusable. Everyone comes across unexpected problems; the test is how do you deal with those problems. Stick your head in the sand, or face them straight on. BM is definitely a head in the sand company, no offense intended, just observing facts on the ground.
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shanepeters@bellsouth.net

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 11:58 am

RB3tv wrote:It sounds as if you're saying, "well, since it used to be a pita and we worked around the problems, "back in the day," we should be thankful for the pita problems we have today?

The nostalgia is quite comical. Basically, you had to walk 10 miles to school in the snow uphill both ways so be thankful that a bus comes to pick you up, but unfortunately the bus lacks features and doesn't get us to school either...

The issues at hand are purely public relations and communications with BMD. I bought the BMCC last August and shortly thereafter received an email from Grant saying new firmware was being worked on.

I thought he meant within a few weeks, a month at most. It's about to be April 2014, NAB time and have not heard another peep.

If I am working on a project with you from last year and tell you I'm working hard, etc, and you don't hear back from me again until, well, never, and its about to be April of the following year, what would you say of my professionalism?

Would you say?
A: No problem, take as much time as you need. Even though I haven't heard a peep out of you, if you need 25 years to work it out, then by all means do so because you are a swell guy.

B: Inquire as to why it's taking so long; I haven't hear a peep as to why we are about to get new calendars for the year and I have Zero information from you on our project status. It's vaporware.

C: Outright complain about how I told you I've got great things coming, and not only didn't deliver the product I explained to you last year, but haven't heard from you about it since our first meeting.

I personally have stopped recommending BM products to friends/colleagues and one of those friends said, "yes, I heard they have a reputation for vaporware." He has a larger budget and went with a Red package instead.

One thing I am thankful for BM is the competition aspect to make other companies take notice and compete in the same budget/feature range. It will give me time to use up my BMCC's lifespan and see what the next gen stuff will do; in all likely-hood, it won't be a BM product though. The lack of communication is inexcusable. Everyone comes across unexpected problems; the test is how do you deal with those problems. Stick your head in the sand, or face them straight on. BM is definitely a head in the sand company, no offense intended, just observing facts on the ground.


+1,000,000.....thank you for this post. Excellent analogy. This lack of communication is so frustrating and pathetic. I am insistant that they don't tell us things about features and fixes we need because they know the camera hardware is just not capable of it, and they won't admit that because it would contradict their own marketing.

@joechiazza....I did research this camera. I purchased it 5 months before it shipped us. Audio and rec709 color were advertised, necessary features that convinced me I could not only use this for my raw/film/personal needs but I could also use it to deliver direct to clients as I do with my other professional camera company products. The BMD marketing assured me of this before any of us found out the truth.

IF BMD told us from day one that reds are not really red and audio is not really professional quality in camera then many of us could have made better informed decisions and put our money elsewhere. I know I took a gamble buying a camera that was not yet industry tested, and that was my mistake...that, and trusting BMD to deliver on their word.
Last edited by shanepeters@bellsouth.net on Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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shanepeters@bellsouth.net

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 12:09 pm

Rude wrote:
joechiazza wrote:Dude...BMD knows everyone wants updates. Continuously bringing it up complaining about it on this forum is a complete waste. They have their direct support contact information on their website, notify them on there.

and Yes I do like being a part of this forum because there are a few professionals here that don't complain about updates that actually have very useful posts that help people grow and use the camera better.

I also do want updates, but IMHO the camera delivers what it states on their website. Yes, It will be nice when they release the updates but for now the camera has made me a ton of money, I have super happy customers and overall I'm satisfied with its performance. I have faith that they are working on them and when they are ready they will release them to us. And I think everyone will be happy about them too.

Until then, I'll just keep shooting and enjoying what I purchased as is.


Myself too I want updates but I do not complain and I see a lot of people, coming from the digital world that have no idea. I come from a world where I was a camera trainee, then loader, then 2nd camera assistant and then focus puller.

I used to load 400 feet and 1000 feet rolls of films into magazines in a black bag on the back of a track. You don't record sound on the camera, unless you are a videographer. Buy a video camera.

If you worked with real cameras like Panavision, Arri 435, 535, Aaton, etc...you appreciate so much this little cheap cam...is great!

BTY, still I have my 16mm Bolex ebm electric....


This is a bit contradictory. You are telling me cinema cameras do not record audio, yet this camera does. It also has a built in monitor like a video camera. Just because it has "cinema camera" in the name does not mean it is it's only use. It also has the word magic in the title....should I expect it to be able to levitate and vanish during performance?

Maybe back in the day you could not put audio and monitoring capabilities on film cameras, but during our modern era, it is now a standard feature for digita cinema.
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Ulysses Paiva

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 12:45 pm

I, as well, think some minor updates arent just really important. If any of you had shot with a DSLR in the past, which many achieved very very nice results, those updates many are asking for are almost irrelevant.

I'm here for the better ProRes/DNxHD debayer, which was explicitly promised by Grant Petty himself, and compressed raw. A better color reproduction? Yes, that would be welcome.

These are really important updates. Oh, the black sun on top of others, of course, but that goes without saying.
Ulysses Paiva

Rude

Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 3:22 pm

shanepeters@bellsouth.net wrote:
Rude wrote:
joechiazza wrote:Dude...BMD knows everyone wants updates. Continuously bringing it up complaining about it on this forum is a complete waste. They have their direct support contact information on their website, notify them on there.

and Yes I do like being a part of this forum because there are a few professionals here that don't complain about updates that actually have very useful posts that help people grow and use the camera better.

I also do want updates, but IMHO the camera delivers what it states on their website. Yes, It will be nice when they release the updates but for now the camera has made me a ton of money, I have super happy customers and overall I'm satisfied with its performance. I have faith that they are working on them and when they are ready they will release them to us. And I think everyone will be happy about them too.

Until then, I'll just keep shooting and enjoying what I purchased as is.


Myself too I want updates but I do not complain and I see a lot of people, coming from the digital world that have no idea. I come from a world where I was a camera trainee, then loader, then 2nd camera assistant and then focus puller.

I used to load 400 feet and 1000 feet rolls of films into magazines in a black bag on the back of a track. You don't record sound on the camera, unless you are a videographer. Buy a video camera.

If you worked with real cameras like Panavision, Arri 435, 535, Aaton, etc...you appreciate so much this little cheap cam...is great!

BTY, still I have my 16mm Bolex ebm electric....


This is a bit contradictory. You are telling me cinema cameras do not record audio, yet this camera does. It also has a built in monitor like a video camera. Just because it has "cinema camera" in the name does not mean it is it's only use. It also has the word magic in the title....should I expect it to be able to levitate and vanish during performance?

Maybe back in the day you could not put audio and monitoring capabilities on film cameras, but during our modern era, it is now a standard feature for digital cinema.


What I meant is that still now, on every movie or professional production you don't record sound on a camera. You do record on cam as reference track . No XLRs? No big deal, buy a Zoom H6 and comes with 4 XLRs, just for under $500.... Do you want XLRs in Cam? There are tons of options out there. I just shot an Doc interview with a Canon C300. Great cam but I used the Zoom H6 for sound so I have more options in post (sound) instead of the sound been embedded with the footage. Somehow, I personally like the look and grain better in the $2000 BMCC than the $15,000 C300... but that's just personal taste.

Regarding monitor in the Cam....We always attached a external small monitor to film cams, specially to pull focus.

As I said and do not get me wrong; I do want updates and I hope for more but it is magic. 2.5k resolution with 13 stops to play around in post, plus davinci for $1999...
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Shayne Kasai

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 4:27 pm

I'm a glass half full kind of guy. I think they will blow us away with a new firmware update for all of the cameras at NAB. :)

Either way, with a wait this long, I bet the update will be huge
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joechiazza

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 4:35 pm

pilotbayfilms wrote:I'm a glass half full kind of guy. I think they will blow us away with a new firmware update for all of the cameras at NAB. :)

Either way, with a wait this long, I bet the update will be huge

I totally agree with you on this. Very excited. If the update isn't significant people on this forum are going to be so crabby.
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Kyle Gordon

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 5:31 pm

pilotbayfilms wrote:I'm a glass half full kind of guy. I think they will blow us away with a new firmware update for all of the cameras at NAB. :)

Either way, with a wait this long, I bet the update will be huge


I tend to agree with you. Gosh I hope so.

* More White Balance Choices
* Audio Meters
* Full Audio Bandwidth Curve
* Correct Rec709 Color in ProRes
* More Battery Remaining levels
* SSD space available

It'd also be great to see:

* In-Camera Formatting
* Auto White Balance (we don't talk about this on the forum, but this could be much better)
* User Upload-able In-Camera LUT for display and encoding to ProRes
* User Upload-able Overlays
* Histograms In Camera
* Overcranking, even to 48 fps

and...

Metabones please release MFT/Active EF mount!

Mosaic please release BMCC OLPF!

If those things happen, this is going to be a really really good and flexible camera.
Kyle Gordon
Professional Singer/Composer/Producer and Director/Editor/Colorist
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Daniel Schnitzer

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 5:53 pm

I think the main problem is, that some people are taking the BMD advertising gimmicks as gospel.
One group of customers is (understandably) complaining about the fact, that some features of the BMCC don´t work as advertised on the BMD webseite (professional audio, etc). The other group of customers seems to be comfortable with what the camera offers, because they take BMD at their word when they call that product "cinema camera". Cinema cameras need to be rigged up.

In my humble opinion, BMD clearly didn´t manage to position the BMCC in the right place, in terms of marketing. It´s neither fish nor fowl. That´s where all the confusion comes from. If this was a "cinema camera" of pure breed, why choose an almost DSLR styled body with EF mount, put in a sensor with wide DR but with strange crop factor, loads of moiré and aliasing and sell that product at an incredibly low price, INCLUDING a software that is worth $1000? BMD did so because the target group mainly consists of low budget DSLR videographers who are supposed to join the BMD family. There is an interview with a representative of BMD who justified the inexplicable EF mount decision with the fact that the majority of current DSLR filmmakers are using EF glass! Isn´t that quite telling? And because DSLR shooters always wanted to be able to record proper audio in camera, BMD equipped the BMCC with audio inputs "for recording the highest quality uncompressed audio". That´s exactly what the advertising on their website says.

If the praised "hightest quality audio" isn´t possible because of hardware or software problems, it´s quite shameless of some forum members to say that "no professional would want to record audio in camera anyway", because this camera is clearly not (primarily) targeted at professionals and the audio inputs aren´t there only for reference sound. I think it was Grant Petty (or another BMD representative) who said recently, that these cameras are made for the masses, so that great image quality isn´t reserved for high budget companies anymore. This contradicts to the theory that one would have to "heavily invest in accessories, because this is a serious cinema tool with only the basic functions...".

I myself am using a Pocket Cinema Camera. I love to have that high DR, ProRes and RAW, I love the small form factor. There are things that I dislike, but the cost-benefit ratio is simply fantastic, despite the well-known hot pixel problem that BMD "is currently looking into...". My JuicedLink BMC388 solves the problem with those crappy preamps and I´m still far below 2000€. I´m totally fine with that.

In my opinion, BMD have positioned the Pocket Camera in its right place, that´s why nobody seems to repeatedly complain about what the camera is offering right out of the box, at the given price point.
Everybody would agree that this is a pocket camera for the main part, not a dedicated production tool.

The BMCC, however, seems to be a matter of debate, because it teases low-budget filmmakers and sophisticated, well-funded filmmakers at the same time. But the camera doesn´t seem to completely satisfy the needs of both "groups". The spontaneous price drops and delaying tactics of BMD do make this situation even more unconfortable for many customers. If you ask me, a product is only as good as the communication of its manufacturer.
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Theodore Prentice

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 9:30 pm

with many more of the original BMCC cameras now exiting their warranty period, Im sure bmd will begin to freely put out firmware.

If it doesnt workout for some cameras (or at all), they wont have half the warranty issues to deal with

upgrade at your own risk.i guess
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joechiazza

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 9:32 pm

Theodore Prentice wrote:with many more of the original BMCC cameras now exiting their warranty period, Im sure bmd will begin to freely put out firmware.

If it doesnt workout for some cameras (or at all), they wont have half the warranty issues to deal with

upgrade at your own risk.i guess

I don't think that has anything to do with it.
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Theodore Prentice

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 9:44 pm

and you may be right.

My cam is out of warranty, so they couldnt be held liable if any new "fixes" tanked my camera in some way.

Trust me, Im not on some conspiracy nut thing, just saying...
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joechiazza

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 9:45 pm

Theodore Prentice wrote:and you may be right.

My cam is out of warranty, so they couldnt be held liable if any new "fixes" tanked my camera in some way.

Trust me, Im not on some conspiracy nut thing, just saying...

So do you want the update or do you not want the update?
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Theodore Prentice

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 9:50 pm

oh no!
I wasnt aware I would be made to choose on the spot if I posted my opinion about the situation!!
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AdrianSierkowski

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Re: NAB 2014 bmcc update

PostFri Mar 28, 2014 9:56 pm

Doubtful, since any new cameras wouldn't be out of warrenty-- and the last thing they'd want to do is brick their own products. Such a thing would be grounds for litigation I am fairly certain.
Adrian Sierkowski
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