Blackmagic Forum

Hello guys I am planning to shoot a short documentary. I want to be flexible as a 1 men team and work fast and efficient. I have a Bmpcc OG but the setup is to clunky and not as flexible. Would you guys think that the iPhone Pro 15 would be worth it since it now has support to record directly to a SSD and has APPLE Log with ProRes? Or maybe better wait for the next iPhone Generator with a bigger Sensor?

You can get pretty good quality from an iPhone 15 if you get exposure and color about right.
It’s weaknesses will be low light and background separation.

The real weakness of iPhones; even with Apple log; is they still look edgy and phoney - too sharp, no matter what they say about them now. But you can take that back in post; soften it. In resolve now you can, make pretty convincing shallow DOF too; don't bother with Apple cinematic. You can tell a compelling doco, on just about anything; but it's all made properly possible in the post too; and those tools are pretty good now also.

And don’t forget about audio. Internal recording won’t cut it.

Lalusch wrote: Or maybe better wait for the next iPhone Generator with a bigger Sensor?

The iPhone 16 will be released in two months. The MacRumors forum maintains a list of the more credible predictions about new features: https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/iphone-16/

Nobody is predicting a larger sensor. However, there may be camera changes that are significant. See the section titled iPhone 16 Camera Technology.

You may also find it useful to look at the thread in this forum called iPhone & Android Hardware Accessories at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=191338

Among other things, that thread includes some good examples of short films shot with an iPhone 15 Pro or Pro Max, as well as “behind the scenes” videos for those films.

Good to see you around, again Rob - you went MIA, for a spell. And I read your stuff avidly; you're a valuable and dedicated source. I'm waiting for 16 too; always a couple of gens on. I reckon one day we'll get true f stops, then it'll be even more compelling.

Uli Plank wrote: It’s weaknesses will be low light and background separation.

This is true. And an understatement. The iPhone isn’t just weak in low light, it’s weak even in lighting that would be normal for any typical digital cinema camera. Forget about being able to light for 800 ISO and getting a clean result. The base ISO on the iPhone camera is only 55. And DPs who want a clean image are rating it even lower than that. Outdoors in sun, it will be fine (though deep shadows will need some fill). But shooting indoors requires substantially more light than any typical digital cinema camera, even an older one like the OG pocket.

Light is not the only challenge with the iPhone. There are audio, frame rate, and sync hurdles as well. But for a one person crew, lighting will be the hardest one to jump.

That's simply all besides the point. Low light isn't much of any issue; I don't know how much you've shot with it, Jamie, but I've shot a fair bit. Fixed ISO goes out the window, in any case, since it's your only real control; unless you use external NDs. But low light; a lot better than I was used to once. The major weakness as I said, is the phone tell-tale sharpness and edgy processing; no matter what they say now with 15 Pro Log.

Jamie LeJeune wrote:There are audio, frame rate, and sync hurdles as well.

Perhaps you could tell us what these hurdles are. For sound for an iPhone 15 Pro Max, I use a Sound Devices 700 series field recorder or a MixPre 6 II recorder, Schoeps and DPA mikes and Tentacle Sync E timecode. The process is the same as for any other camera, except that everything about the camera is more compact and lighter. What audio and synchronisation hurdles am I experiencing that I apparently haven’t noticed?

I can set frame rate using the same neutral density filters and polariser that I use for other cameras. What hurdles?

By the way, Claudio Miranda says that he’s happy shooting at ISO 400 on an iPhone 15. Is the cinematographer who won an Academy Award for Life of Pi, and who shoots all of Joseph Kosinski’s films, wrong?

Lalusch, here are a couple of actual short films. If you want more examples, just say so.

Shot with an iPhone 15 Pro Max:



Shot with an iPhone 15 Pro:

I second that notion regarding ISO, something between 300 and 500 is realistic base ISO. Initial claims of about 1250 were probably wrong interpretation of data, and 55 is just the lowest setting, but killing DR.
For professional audio you'll need what Rob describes or something similar.
You'll also need NDs, since they are the only way to control exposure if you want cinematic motion blur and keep ISO under control. I doubt that variable aperture will come to smartphones any time soon, and I also doubt that sensors will get much larger. Variable NDs might seem attractive at first view, but being polarizers, they have their drawbacks. Rather get fixed NDs with magnetic holders for quick changes. Rob has linked such solutions in his thread.
While external audio and NDs are the minimal configuration IMHO, you may want additional storage and power. In the end, this implies a cage to get it all together. Again, Rob has linked good solutions.
So, there you have it: an iPhone is not something you pull out of your pocket and start filming, if you care about quality. But other than Steve I don't find the results too edgy when shooting log in ProRes. If someone does, there are filters like the ones you use for any digital camera that shows too much biting sharpness. These can also be simulated very well in post.

Or the OP could just use an actual camera?

But the original BMPCC might be a bit limiting for doc.

Personally I'd like to know what the OP finds "clunky and not as flexible" with the OG Pocket, as a Micro user. The OG Pocket is about the same size as any iPhone, and will offer infinitely better image quality.

The bad battery life, perhaps, but for all day shooting an external battery will be necessary anyway.

As for recording to an external SSD? Wouldn't that add to the clunkiness?

Stabilization too, but there are OIS lenses...

soohyun wrote:The OG Pocket is about the same size as any iPhone, and will offer infinitely better image quality.

Does it? HD only, difficult to focus, strong tendency to moiré, IR filtering needed.
An iPhone 15 Max can run for hours with one charge, focuses automatically, and is UHD. Plus, it can stabilize on it's own.

Moire, quite heavily is also visible in that Apple video
shot on iPhone 15 Pro Max (10:10-10:25)

I also don't like how it renders shadows, though it has come long way and at this point it is very usable tool.

Pocket OG when paired with nice lens is different level and different tool.

Both have its place, iPhone is just always with you, has good battery life, stabilisation, that is where is the real advantage to any camera, not just qa pocket. USB-c thing is real deal, too.

Steve Fishwick wrote: I don't know how much you've shot with it, Jamie

While I don't shoot with iPhone 15 Pro (I own multiple other cameras which capture higher fidelity, so I have no need to shoot on an iPhone), I have been hired to grade a ton of Apple Log ProRes files ever since iPhone 15 Pro was released. I make my comments having seen some of the best that talented DPs have been able to get out of it along with what some less careful shooters have sent me. A fair portion of what I've received has suffered from shifting blocky noise that limits what can be done in the grade. The cleanest and easiest to grade files that I've gotten from iPhone 15 Pro were shot by a DP who, when I inquired about how he was able to deliver such good results for post, explained that he rated it below the base 55 ISO and lit it accordingly underneath a show LUT which pulled the exposure.

Uli Plank wrote: 55 is just the lowest setting, but killing DR

As with any camera, there is a trade off between dynamic range and avoiding noise. If controlling the lighting, a DP can limit the dynamic range of what's in front of the camera and expose to avoid noise. If the DP has limited control over the lighting, the iPhone may not be the right tool for the job.

robedge wrote:Claudio Miranda says that he’s happy shooting at ISO 400 on an iPhone 15. Is the cinematographer who won an Academy Award for Life of Pi, and who shoots all of Joseph Kosinski’s films, wrong?

All I can report is what I've seen in post from the footage I've received. I haven't graded any iPhone footage shot by Claudio Miranda. I wish. The spots he shot on iPhone look absolutely great. I don't think his statement is in disagreement with what I wrote. He's clearly lighting carefully and certainly not treating it like an Alexa at 800 ISO. If you have details about his monitoring and post process, it would be useful to see. Setting the iPhone at 400 ISO doesn't mean it's being lit for 400 ISO. I'd bet that there's a CDL and/or a show LUT in the chain that is pulling the exposure.

robedge wrote:Perhaps you could tell us what these hurdles are.

The iPhone, even in ProRes, records a variable frame rate, rather than a constant frame rate, no matter how the app is set. As a result, I've seen all sorts of problems in post — shifting offsets of a few frames required on different takes to sync audio, drift vs second system audio on longer takes, dropped and/or doubled frames once clips are forced into constant rate either via transcode or in the NLE timeline (and which frames get dropped or doubled are different in every app), broken XML workflows between Premiere and Resolve which interpret the variable rate files differently, and in a few cases I got files that were interpreted by post apps in very odd frame rates that were different from what was set in the recording app. If you haven't run into any of these issues, I'm really happy for you. They have been annoying and time consuming to work around.

My advice to the OP would be to test the iPhone 15 Pro against their other camera options through their whole production and post pipeline to see what works best for the particular project.

EDIT: Fixed misattributed quote above. My apologies for the mix up.

Jamie LeJeune wrote:

robedge wrote:55 is just the lowest setting, but killing DR

As with any camera, there is a trade off between dynamic range and avoiding noise. If controlling the lighting, a DP can limit the dynamic range of what's in front of the camera and expose to avoid noise. If the DP has limited control over the lighting, the iPhone may not be the right tool for the job.

Please don’t attribute to me statements that I didn’t make.

Jamie LeJeune wrote:

robedge wrote:Perhaps you could tell us what these hurdles are.

The iPhone, even in ProRes, records a variable frame rate, rather than a constant frame rate, no matter how the app is set. As a result, I've seen all sorts of problems in post — shifting offsets of a few frames required on different takes to sync audio, drift vs second system audio on longer takes, dropped and/or doubled frames once clips are forced into constant rate either via transcode or in the NLE timeline (and which frames get dropped or doubled are different in every app), broken XML workflows between Premiere and Resolve which interpret the variable rate files differently, and in a few cases I got files that were interpreted by post apps in very odd frame rates that were different from what was set in the recording app. If you haven't run into any of these issues, I'm really happy for you. They have been annoying and time consuming to work around.

You say in your answer to Steve Fishwick’s question about your experience that you haven’t actually shot with an iPhone 15. It would have been helpful to know that at the outset. Presumably you also haven’t recorded sound to one. What you list aren’t hurdles, they are apparently problems that you say you’ve “seen” while colour grading other people’s work. What you are describing is not typical. I suggest that you advise whoever you’re talking about to read what Uli Plank and others have written on this site about the iPhone 15 and sync. The advice is quite reliable, and there are links to concrete examples of sync being maintained for long periods. The iPhone 15 has been available for ten months. I am unaware of a single YouTube video, thread here (apart from your post), or thread on any of the four relevant Facebook Groups, that suggests that there’s a synchronisation problem with the iPhone 15.

People can decide for themselves whether your original statement about ISO and Claudio Miranda’s are consistent. Reading your response above to Steve Fishwick, am I right that your statement "And DPs who want a clean image are rating it even lower than that [ISO 55]” actually comes from a discussion with a single DP? That’s what your response to Steve suggests.

Regarding sync issues, any smartphone can have some. The iPhone 15 (I didn’t test older ones) is very good compared to others, with considerably less than one 1% of fluctuation of its frame rate.
There‘s one catch: this is only true if you don’t use its stabilizer. So, there’s a trade off.

And then, the statement regarding ISO 55 and DR was mine and I stand by it.

Maybe Ulli has solutions I haven't noted, but this sync issue, with any variable frame rate recording and double system audio, is not a secret or urban myth. That some have never heard of it may speak to a limited orbit. Of course, a shooter who is not recording double system sound, transcoding the phone original and preparing sync critical material in post will never see it. Small wonder it's not a source of constant complaints among iphone15 owners.

But that's not the use case Jaime has described. Or the one being promoted here, for iPhone as production camera.

Maybe I was lucky with my sample, but my iPhone 15 is showing a variation between 59,940 and 60,181 fps when set to record 60. While that's not constant, please calculate the deviation to expect over any reasonable length of doc recording.
And, no, I would not recommend it for opera or concert recordings.

Well, we have a report above, by someone actually doing extensive post work with the footage. That could be more instructive than the absence of reports from parties who aren't doing such work -- even if they happen to own the phone.

I wonder also if the deviation you measured (of the entire file? or a sample via mediainfo or the like?) actually correlates with freedom from sync issues after a transcode, which may introduce larger deviations.

Anyway, lots of unknowns here. But the issue is not new. What would truly be unexpected is that these sync issues suddenly disappeared.

To clarify: we tested 30 minutes of recording with an electronic clapboard in the frame, and audio was constantly one frame ahead. This can happen with 'real' cameras too.

OTOH, if the iPhone had its stabilization activated, fluctuations were much higher than this. Use of one of the stronger stabilizers (while impressive) would definitely cause sync issues. So, in this respect there is no advantage over the BMPCC, which can be used with stabilized lenses. Both can also be used with a gimbal, of course. I hope Lalusch has the information needed to decide, based on the specific needs of the project.