Blackmagic Forum

Hello everyone.. I was doing a fashion shoot.. and using my BMPCC6K and a G2, one with a 24mm Rokinon on a DJI RS2 gimbal, and the G2 with a DZOfilm lens 20-55 2.8 ... Shot using the photographer's lighting setup.. shot in 4K, 60fps ... using Iso 400 - 800 most of the time..

Shot in prores HQ (probably my 1st mistake) .. Although I calibrated my shots with a video color checker (rite) .. I cannot get the matching colors from their photo shots.. Lost color details like green lines, my reds are pinkish.. so.. and not to mention the noise that is awful ...

Did some outdoor tests today to see where I went wrong, shot in Braw, I got the same results.. grainy footage and soft edges throughout the footage, on both lenses.. although the DZO was a bit more crisp. but no where near what my ref image from the iphone 13 gave me.. very crisp edges..

Any clues.. wrong lens? wrong settings? Wrong Cameraman LOL!!

thanks!

(I've included 3 images for reference.. Rokinon, DZO and iphone.)

Did you shoot ProRes log?
Which ISO setting?

Uli Plank wrote:Did you shoot ProRes log?
Which ISO setting?

For the fashion shoot, I shot ProRes HQ. but for my tests yesterday I shot BRaw.. outdoor was ISO 400.. indoor (the fashion shoot) was 800-1200..


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Marc Poirier wrote:

Uli Plank wrote:Did you shoot ProRes log?
Which ISO setting?

For the fashion shoot, I shot ProRes HQ. but for my tests yesterday I shot BRaw.. outdoor was ISO 400.. indoor (the fashion shoot) was 800-1200..


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oh and i used the internal LUT gen5 film


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iPhone 13 is always going to look completely different for a host of reasons, the main one being that it’s always adding a ton of noise reduction and digital sharpening to the recorded image, on top of the deep depth of field due to the tiny image sensor.

DZO Pictor zoom lenses are always going to be somewhat softer when wide open, and will be sharper if stopped down a bit.

As for color matching, that’s going to take manual work in post. There’s no default setting between iPhone 13 and BMD cameras to result in the exact same color on screen. For your BRAW files, you’ll want to transform them to “BMD video” or to Rec.709 to have the closest starting point if your goal is to match the iPhone color, rather than using BMD’s “extended video” look.

Also, the base ISO in the first gain stage for those two BMD cameras is 400, so 800 will have relatively more noise. If you need to set it higher than ISO 400, move up to the second gain stage that starts at 1250 ISO, rather than using anything between 500 - 1200.

Marc Poirier wrote:but no where near what my ref image from the iphone 13 gave me.. very crisp edges..
Any clues.. wrong lens? wrong settings?

The iPhone is applying all kinds of 'enhancements' that Apple's marketing considers appropriate for the average user. You can only avoid those with the recent models shooting log. As Jamie explained, the others will never match, and that's not BM's fault. Their cameras deliver an 'honest' picture without any enhancements applied. If you need noise filtering or want to do some sharpening, that's a task for DR.

thanks for these insights! very useful.. FYI the iphone was just a reference, i’m not trying to match to the iphone, but to a picture as crisp (no softness) as the iphone…

i love BMD’s cinematic look, but it might not be the right camera for a fashion shoot..

cheers!

Marc


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that makes no sense^

If you want a closer match to the photos, you’re going to have to post an example of a photo they took, and a corresponding still from the video that you would like to match.

I do think its a bit naive to expect a video camera to look exactly the same as the photo camera when the lighting is optimized for photos and not video, since their settings tend to be pretty different from yours.

Unfortunately I cannot post photos of the shoot... (got strict NDA on those..) but That was my original thought.. How can I make it as the photos.. but the creative team thinks otherwise ... So I'll try to play some magic to get close to there pics.

thanks!

Secondary corrections where you alter the hue of certain colour ranges may do what you need.

Ok.. so after searching the internet ... I found some settings that actually gave me a very close color match.. (attached screen shot)...

You have selected HDR10+ and HDR Vivid, but your Colour Managed selection is SDR Rec.709. I would think the HDR selections are irrelevant. On your rendered video, what are the codec codes as shown by Get Info on a Mac? For instance 1-1-1 or 9-13-9?

No idea what HDR10+ and HDR Vivid might be doing with SD presets, but neither should be checked. The most favorable outcome would be that they're doing nothing. And checking them both is forbidden, they represent different HDR standards.

The fact that these HDR choices exist doesn't mean footage is "better" for selecting them. And it's easy to get over one's head ... as in "grading" HDR at home.

rick.lang wrote:You have selected HDR10+ and HDR Vivid, but your Colour Managed selection is SDR Rec.709. I would think the HDR selections are irrelevant. On your rendered video, what are the codec codes as shown by Get Info on a Mac? For instance 1-1-1 or 9-13-9?

1-1-1 is the code..

And yes.. the 2 HDR checkbox are irrelevant..

John Paines wrote:No idea what HDR10+ and HDR Vivid might be doing with SD presets, but neither should be checked. The most favorable outcome would be that they're doing nothing. And checking them both is forbidden, they represent different HDR standards.

The fact that these HDR choices exist doesn't mean footage is "better" for selecting them. And it's easy to get over one's head ... as in "grading" HDR at home.

Right on thanks for the tip! HDR unchecked

Marc Poirier wrote:1-1-1 is the code...

Great, that’s 709; glad it’s working for you.

You need more light.

Convert both to DaVinci Wide Gamut and start from there.

Apple Log / Rec2020 or Rec2020 / Rec2020
To DaVinci Wide Gamut / DaVinci Intermediate.

On the camera Blackmagic Film / Blackmagic Wide Gen 4/5
To DaVinci Wide Gamut / DaVinci Intermediate.

Second node use the color chart feature set for DaVinci Wide Gamut as source colorspace, Gamut and target.

On the final CST DaVinci Wide Gamut to Rec709 / Gamma 2.4

ShaheedMalik wrote:Convert both to DaVinci Wide Gamut and start from there.

This is another instance where the wealth of choices doesn't serve the uninitiated well.

The OP will do perfectly fine leaving the Color space/transform settings as is, with the possible exception of changing gamma to 2.4 (depending on where it's going).

DWG is not essential to grading SDR material, and is often not the best choice for a beginner, which includes far more users than are likely to admit to being one.