Blackmagic Forum

This is still in public beta but it is a very cool tool IMO. I’m following its progress and hope that it is going to be the in GA soon. If you like this, I suggest we support his efforts.

thanks for the info Ellroy

When I click on the movie link in your post, nothing happens.

When I manually pasted the link in Safari, it worked.

WOW!

Good find.

Thanks Ellory.

Matthew Allard (NewsShooter) has published a brief article on this. The piece has attracted several comments, including one from “Ike”, the developer.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/12/22/ ... blic-beta/

It’s worth looking at Ike’s website: https://cinemon.app

Thanks Rob. I wonder when it will be GA on the App Store. It say’s coming soon.

indeed this looks interesting. An iPad Pro 2024 with bright display can be used not only as a field monitor, but also in the studio as a reference monitor, and as a monitor for scopes. It is just a question, for me, what HDMI-USB C adapter I should choose, and what the final version fo CineMon will cost. A one-time purchase of $100, or subscription based?

I have used the Duet Display app before, but when it turned into a subscription model, I stopped using Duet Display. Splashtop was another app I tried out. The Spacedesk app is free, something to try out.

But a hardware solution (one-time purchase of a HDMI-USB C adapter), with an affordable app without subscription model, is the way to go I think. If the price for both is below $200, I’m in.

Yeah, looks interesting. I'm beta testing right now, but I only have a really cheapo HDMI -> USB adapter around, and I don't really know how precise these are.
But it works very nicely with USB streaming out of a Sony A7IV, I'll compare and report. No extra devices dangling around, but unfortunately, BM doesn't offer that.
And then, I would not really call an iPad reference, but they are pretty close. Not very attractive with cameras that have SDI only, since even cheap Chinese adapters are around 100 bucks, and something I'd trust for precision by BM is quite a bit more.
On a Mac, it would compete against OmniScope, so the price vs. features will matter. And then, it'll force you into Sequoia and older laptops are out. But for the iPad, there's nothing similar.

thank you. How to find information about HDMI-USB C adapters? And, of course, iPads are not reference monitors. I should have formulated this differently, like "quite accurate" or "similar to a reference monitor".

Please keep us informed about the beta, and adapters.

got in the beta test program and tested this weekend with an FX30 and it worked well for what it was... unfortunately, we use the ipad for a ton of other things on set and had to stop using it, efficiency wise...would be interesting if they partnered with a wireless video solution that had a feed to multiple screens (ipads)

So, I tested the streamed signal from a Sony A7IV against the same source via a cheap Chinese HDMI -> USB-C 'dongle'. Disappointing, unfortunately.

The signal via that adapter is considerably more coarse, i.e. compressed. Even worse, the level is not identical, it's shifted up. I don't really know of a good comparison list for such adapters. The developer is using an Elgato, as shown in the video, which is quite pricey. There are some videos on YT, but I'm not so sure about their reliability.
This point may be a problem, since the iPad doesn't work with BM's adapters, which are really precise and uncompressed. I'm right now waiting for another adapter for SDI to USB-C, let's see if that's better. Operation on the iPad is even more intuitive than on the Mac, once you get the hang of it. Operation is quite consistent among the tools, well thought out.

Apart from the connection issue, I'm impressed with CineMon. Functionality is already quite complete, and stability on my laptop looks like he's close to getting final. And Ike (the developer) is very responsive.

Also testing, but am interested in HDR... which may be an issue for an iPad, not because of the iPad but because of adapter that can work with it. I already have a BMD 12G SDI to HDMI... but would like to see BMD come up with a SDI to USB or to Thunderbolt that works with iPad... iPad will need to make that work (the current 3G BMD SDI to Thunderbolt does not work, because of iPad)... But would also like 12G

Well, everybody has been asking for a successor to the UltraStudio devices in 4K, but nothing in sight…

App looks fantastic, my only concern is latency from the Adapter.

Anyone got any direct experience with this?

I have two more adapters coming in and I'll test latency too.
Unfortunately, I can only test on a laptop. We sold our M2 iPad last year in favour of upgrading to an iPhone 15. I'd be grateful if someone with any USB-C iPad would report back too.

@everybody
The first part of my review is here:
https://digitalproduction.com/2025/01/1 ... d-and-mac/

The developer is still improving it and is very responsive.

@Adam
The cheap HDMI devices show 2 frames of latency in CineMon at 25 fps, so about 80 ms.

Anybody around with an AVMatrix UC2018? If so, how's the image quality and latency?
Since Thunderbolt adapters don't work on the iPad, this might be an alternative to the very costly AJA devices.

Uli Plank wrote:... I'd be grateful if someone with any USB-C iPad would report back too.

I have been testing on an iPad Pro M2. However only with file input.

Am still looking for a capture device that will send 10-bit 4:4:4 preferably 4Kp60, either 12G SDI or HDMI 2.1. I would like to display HDR PQ. Haven looked at Magewell USB Capture HDMI 4K Pro, but it does not do 10-bit or HDR for Mac or iPad (but will on Windows.)

Also CineMon does not deal with PQ... and not sure if it will. It does work with a tone mapped image so the iPad displays 1000nits rather than the normal 100, but that may be a fluke and not true PQ. If I send a PQ signal it does not recognize and keeps at 100 nit. If I then add a LUT changing PQ to gamma 2.2 or 2.4 and tone-mapped to 1000 nits it displays 1000 nits.

Info on any other capture devices would be appreciated.

Uli Plank wrote:Anybody around with an AVMatrix UC2018? If so, how's the image quality and latency?
Since Thunderbolt adapters don't work on the iPad, this might be an alternative to the very costly AJA devices.

Strange, that product is not listed on the AVMatrix website home and there’s no Search function on their website, just a scrolling list of their products none of which support USB-C Gen 1 output. It is listed at various third-party vendor sites in Canada and the USA.

Also listed by dozens of vendors here on Tokopedia (something like the local Amazon).
There's another model called UC1218 too.

Interesting. Thanks. At B&H Photo the 2018 model is $219 USD; at AVShop in Canada, it’s $318 Can. If BMD offered a similar product it might be less than $100 USD. Perhaps when the Pyxis Monitor is released, there will be an appropriate cable to use the monitor for cameras with normal HDMI/SDI outputs to support the USB-C Gen 1 connector.

Are you looking for SDI or HDMI?
I have another capture card coming in that claims uncompressed YUY2.

I use my BMVA12G7 via SDI on the UM4.6K; as you know the video assist supports both HDMI and SDI. My BMPCC4K only supports HDMI, so it might make sense to add a Pyxis monitor to the BMPCC4K via HDMI.

Would be very appealing if the Pyxis monitor could control the BMPCC4K camera while they’re at it.

The card is for HDMI. I’ll report.

Jeffrey D Mathias wrote:... but would like to see BMD come up with a SDI to USB or to Thunderbolt that works with iPad... iPad will need to make that work (the current 3G BMD SDI to Thunderbolt does not work, because of iPad)...

According to Apple, the current iPad Pro devices use a Thunderbolt/USB 4 connector so that should work with a compatible cable.

BM needs to care for the software then.

I’m sure it’s something under consideration for wider use of the Pyxis monitor on additional BMD cameras, but it’s not as high a priority as the efforts to deliver the new Cine cameras including the Immersive camera.

rick.lang wrote:...According to Apple, the current iPad Pro devices use a Thunderbolt/USB 4 connector so that should work with a compatible cable.

Yes, I have the iPad Pro M2 and it has Thunderbolt 4 port. However the manufacturer Magewell states that their device only captures 10-bit with Windows and 8-bit with Apple. I want to do 4Kp60 and HDR.

today I received a cheap adapter, and it works well with CineMon. According to the description it should also support 10/12 bit and 4k.

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/10050070 ... pt=glo2deu

It looks very similar to one that disappointed me.
How does yours look like if you feed a log signal and stretch it to Rec. 709 in CineMon?
This is what I get:

Aren't most BM Pocket cams capable of webcam output via usbc as of firmware 8.6? Is the adapter strictly necessary for these cams, or is it just a matter of code?

Good Luck

I don't think it's needed for those, since 8.6 supports UVC. Not having one of those cameras here any more, it would be nice if somebody tries, after all it's a public beta. Would be great if you can record log, but optionally stream with a correction LUT.
The Sony A7IV, like many others in its class, is doing UVC streaming too now. Unfortunately, it can't record at the same time and it can't use the same correction it does for the internal monitor. But the image quality is far better than over a cheap HDMI capture dongle.

Edit:
The developer has added the capability to control the capture device, and to my surprise you can switch the cheapest one to YUY2. It's 8 bit, not 10 or 12, but the signal looks much better now. More frame rates are accessible too.

Uli Plank wrote:It looks very similar to one that disappointed me.
How does yours look like if you feed a log signal and stretch it to Rec. 709 in CineMon?

if you can help me a bit with the procedure, I'm glad to do such tests.

It's pretty simple, but you first need to import the LUT. I'd suggest using the one you use in DR to compare, CineMon supports 33 point .cube LUTs.
– Import the LUT with the second tab in the Organizer (top right fold-out menu, see below).
- Open the settings for the Display LUT function (the triangle under the cube icon in the menu bar).
- Choose your LUT from the list (Sony Slog in my case).
- Activate the LUT by selecting the cube icon.

Feel free to ask if this is unclear.

After testing a few interfaces, I can say that for HDMI sources the Acasis VC-003 works pretty well at a decent price.
The cheap no-name for SDI was a disappointment, and I don’t have the AVMatrix for testing. AJA U-Tap is too expensive for this use case, IMHO. One might rather buy a recording monitor with a good screen.
A detailed report will follow for Digital Production, I’ll link it here.

Uli Plank wrote:Feel free to ask if this is unclear.

thank you Uli. Loading the LUT into CineMon shouldn't be a problem. What I'm unsure of is the test image you are using. Can you provide this test image here, or a link to a download?

Then I would load the test image into the camera, and feed the video to CineMon? Is that your setup?

That is a test chart in front of the camera, and it doesn't come cheap.

The Color Checker Video by Calibrite may not be 100% as good, but decent, and it's cheaper. They also have a pocketable model called Color Checker Video Passport.

Sending you a frame to load into the camera won't serve you, since even the same model of a camera can have minor differences. That's one of the reasons to use such charts.

yes that was my original idea, that it was a test chart. But then I thought, the lighting situation will be different, so we won't be able to compare values, and then assumed to load a BRAW frame into the camera.

---

On a different note, tonight I tried CineMon with my laptop. As a second monitor, for the clean feed from DaVinci Resolve. I set the iPad Pro to "Reference Mode", and did some colour correction. This app really works fine as a monitor, I must say. Together with the new Micro Color Panel, the Resolve session went very fast. Much better decisions for colour and light, compared to my former setup with a Panasonic TV (found in the trash) as the second monitor for Resolve's clean feed, and observing the scopes.

The clean feed is now on a much smaller screen, but at least somewhat accurate in colour. What a joy. I graded footage of snow crystals and structures, which always have a red tint in digital sensors. One has to balance the highlights and mids very carefully to get the snow colour right, and this cannot be seen on a scope. This can only be seen on a good screen. And can be adjusted very fast with a grading panel. I'm so glad I bought these two things, the iPad Pro, and the Micro Color Panel. Such a relief.

Phil999 wrote:… can be adjusted very fast with a grading panel. I'm so glad I bought these two things, the iPad Pro, and the Micro Color Panel. Such a relief.

Apologies for the tangent, I use the six colour wheels for adjustment controls when grading HDR for PQ deliverables. All of the panels’ comments appear to discuss the three colour wheels for Lift, Gamma, Gain. Can the Micro panel also work with the six HDR controls?

rick.lang wrote:Can the Micro panel also work with the six HDR controls?

yes. The wheels control the ones that appear in the HDR window in Resolve. The same with the reset buttons. For example, the "Reset Lift" button will reset the "Black" wheel when the Black wheel is visible.

Thanks, Phil.

I've done some more testing regarding the hardware needed:
https://digitalproduction.com/2025/01/2 ... mon-et-al/

Thanks for that review Uli. You are putting a lot of effort into this!

Well, we are trying to breathe new life into an established brand, which used to be a printed magazine in German. It was a pretty well respected source for professionals in Switzerland, Austria and Germany for decades. I had the honour to write for them during the last 20 years.
Recently, the holding it belonged to went bankrupt. We are trying to reactivate "Digital Production" in English as a web presence.
The review of the new Asus 5K monitor might be interesting around here too, now that the LG is not made any more and Apple is still so expensive.

Best wishes for that endeavour.

I just tried a Pengo HDMI to USB-C 4K Grabber capture card with Cinemon and it does not work... does not show up in source selection.

Does it show up in OBS or in the QuickTime Player?
if that device is delivering UVC, it should work. If it shows up in the other programs, I'd suggest you inform the developer via TestFlight's feedback option.

P.S. Was the device connected before you started CineMon?

Yes, was connected first and did not show up anywhere and did notify Ike.

Send it back then. Any UVC device would also show up in QT and OBS, so it's not a bug in CineMon.