BMCC vs RED ONE

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Joe Gonzalez

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 6:01 pm

Ive worked with my Canon 60d and 5dM2 for projects and its paid well over for itself along time ago. I have a few L lenses, and my Pentax Takumar lenses and an anamorphic. I've been waiting patiently for my EF mount BMC on order. Why? Well, cause i can shoot ProRes and 2.5K RAW files for 3k. Good price, i can still use my EF lenses and crop factor isn't a big deal ......for now. I understand the wait, and i understand just like i needed batteries and memory for my Canon's , i will have to do the same for BMC and it will be more expensive then my CanonDslr's. No problem. Now, i see the REDONE for 4k, with a 4.5k sensor at 120fps, PL mount , s35 sensor at 4k, HDMI out and other stuff. Someone said on this forum that if you purchase just the REDONE by itself, its useless.
Soeren Mueller wrote:
For 4k USD all you get is a piece of heavy metal that will just sit there and do.. well.. nothing ;)


Is this true as much as the BMD? Can we shoot right out of the box with BMC? Is the REDONE that much of a proprietary product to use?
Wouldn't BMD next step to have a bigger sensor at 4k ? Wont you need a plethora of accessories also, cause that sensor will need a fan of some sort, bigger SSD, Batteries, ect. From what i hear Sony producing a few cameras at 4k , 8k but not at the price we are striving for with the BMC, camera. Would you guys buy a BMD camera at 4k with a s35 sensor and 120fps just because its a BMD? Why not the RED ONE mx now, when its available and its proven. These are just questions I'm asking as a consumer, I'm not looking to argue with anyone about which is better, but I'm looking for the obvious as a consumer and a videographer. I will want to upgrade to 4k one day, why not do it now for under 5k at 4.5k with the REDONE? Im still purchasing my BMC but if they come out with a 4.4k next year for 4k$ with a bigger sensor, it'll all start over again.
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Bill Rich

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 6:20 pm

Joe_g..

Here's the deal.. you already have the EF lenses.. when you get a BMCC all you will need to shoot is an SSD.. and you can shoot! Yes you will probably want an external battery and other gear to supplement it.. but you can literally turn it on.. use the lenses you already have.. get an inexpensive SSD.. and go shooting with it..

Now a RED camera. for media you HAVE to use crazy overpriced RED media and Batteries.. Modules.. adapters for audio (Red uses weird mini-XLRs) it has a PL mount.. so you'll either need a new mount, adapter.. or buy PL lenses.. a Monitor.. then you'll most likely need a heavy-duty tripod (a kitted out R1 weights 30-40lbs)
then you'll need a red-rocket.. red-mag.. red-spaghetti maker.. red-meatballs.. (you get the idea)

As was pointed out earlier.. there is a 2nd hand market for R1 accessories which definitely helps..
and I think it would be cool to own a RED camera. You just need to be aware of the cost associated with kitting it up and working with the files.. The BMCC has some cost associated with working with the files as well if you plan on shooting raw.. it takes up a LOT of space.. so storage will be an issue. personally I plan to use prores a lot.. and reserve the raw for high end paid gigs.. and include the cost of storage etc in my rates.. :)
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Nick Bedford

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 8:49 pm

Theodore Prentice wrote:
Nick Bedford wrote:I thought this was quite hilarious.

http://t.co/4r9itNTg


alexa vs r3d1 mx:



alexa vs f3 vs 7d:



(mystery camera ;) hint.. it shoots to a "crappy" 8 BIT codec :shock: :P


Somebody somewhere said it best: "Application first..tech next"


And?
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RichDorato

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 9:10 pm

Bill Rich wrote:Joe_g..

Now a RED camera. for media you HAVE to use crazy overpriced RED media and Batteries.. Modules.. adapters for audio (Red uses weird mini-XLRs) it has a PL mount.. so you'll either need a new mount, adapter.. or buy PL lenses.. a Monitor.. then you'll most likely need a heavy-duty tripod (a kitted out R1 weights 30-40lbs)
then you'll need a red-rocket.. red-mag.. red-spaghetti maker.. red-meatballs.. (you get the idea)


That's simply not true, you do not have to buy "crazy overpriced" RED accessories. You can use any brand batteries you'd like, any monitor, any brand adapter (tons of third parties make "cheap" RED accessories). The Red One also comes with XLR adapters, you don't have to buy them as an extra. This person doesn't know what they're talking about.

For the media, yes, RED quality control their media to assure that your footage is captured properly. It's one of the most important pieces of the puzzle, so skimping on that would be criminal.
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Eric Santiago

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 10:03 pm

what if the BMCC was 4K and up?
do you honestly think off the shelf SSDs will do the trick?
I've said this many time over that this is dumb to pit a BMCC against a RED MX.
they are not in the same league.
it seems to really get the haters to come out and make ridiculous comments.

Why dont we just go ahead and put it up against a C500 already since it has a higher res frame than a C300.
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Theodore Prentice

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 10:22 pm

Eric Santiago wrote:they are not in the same league.
it seems to really get the haters to come out and make ridiculous comments.
.


lol, I hear you.
I dont think its as much about hating as it is about not understanding what works for one, doesnt apply to somebody else.

We have been lucky enough to be surrounded by red cameras (east coast usa), so we could rent or even barter/borrow sometimes.
The red mx at the reduced price is a no brainer for us because we have bits and pieces we can use already, and can easily rent or buy what we dont have.

As for workflow, premiere and rcX work just fine for us on mac pros with decent nvidia cards, not a red rocket in sight :)
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Bill Rich

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 11:00 pm

RichDorato

This person doesn't know what they're talking about..

Really?..
you HAVE to use crazy overpriced RED media

is that wrong? You DO have to use RED media.. and compared to what else is available.. it is insanely over-priced

You HAVE to buy batteries. it doesn't come with a battery does it?
same with monitors.. lens adapters.. heavy duty tripod.. etc..

So this sale includes the XLR adapter cable.. I got that wrong.. you got me! Burn..

The point is that you can get a BMCC and a SSD and shoot out of the box. which you can't with the R1..

You need to chill with the RED fanboy Koolaid.. The guy was asking a question and I answered it..
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RichDorato

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 11:06 pm

And you answered wrong. Outside of media you don't have to buy RED accessories, like you claimed. You can use any brand batteries you want, any brand monitor, etc., etc.
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Joe Gonzalez

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 11:10 pm

Hey guys, sorry if I'm comparing apples to oranges and getting us to argue, which is not my intent. I genuinely was surprised by the REDONE price point to 4k$ as was others. Im thoroughly confused on all these comments as a consumer. Ive never owned anything that shoots RAW video only rented them. I like RED footage and i like BMD footage from what I've seen. Both look great! The next step up for me was the BMC cause of RAW video for a price of a DSLR. I am just asking about shooting in RAW under 4k$, Im just assuming after BMC puts out their 2.5k cine-cam,(which i have on order) the next logical step would be to up the sensor and the resolution and frame rate. I really don't think they will stop at 2.5k 30fps. The RED ONE is already up to that standard and have lowered their price to a CanonMark3 and in comparison to the BMC shoots in 2k,3k with higher frame rates. Im just asking as a consumer, why wouldn't the logical answer as a buyer to shoot RAW, higher frame rates, bigger sensor at a price of a DSLR be the REDONE right now? I understand from Eric saying we shouldn't compare them both, but I'm just saying for an extra 1000 dollars on just the price you already get what I'm assuming BMC will eventually strive for. Or am i wrong on that? Once again, I'm not arguing im looking at get a new camera that shoot RAW and right now it looks like i can afford the REDONE and the Blackmagic without all the accessories. I already own a monitor and i use outboard sound anyway. The only thing i would need is batteries and cards.
Last edited by Joe Gonzalez on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill Rich

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 11:12 pm

Re-read what I wrote.. I only said you need RED media.. I did not claim he needed RED anything else..
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Eric Santiago

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 11:16 pm

Just a reminder that the initial cost of a RED MX was not $4000.
We got ours at $29K years ago.
Last known value $17500.
And again, why is it compared to a BMCC?
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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 11:18 pm

Joe_g wrote:...and right now it looks like i can afford the REDONE and the Blackmagic without all the accessories. I already own a monitor and i use outboard sound anyway. The only thing i would need is batteries and cards.


Well... what kind of lenses do you have? The RED One MX currently for sale "only" has a PL mount, you either need a complete new set of lenses or some expensive adapter.
Also the "cards" (RED Mags) are quite expensive plus you need their reader too (afaik, not 100% sure)

And does your tripod etc. really handle the extra weight? The R1 is really quite a heavy beast...
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RichDorato

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 11:47 pm

Bill Rich wrote:Re-read what I wrote.. I only said you need RED media.. I did not claim he needed RED anything else..


Okay, let's re-read what you said "Now a RED camera. for media you HAVE to use crazy overpriced RED media and Batteries.. Modules.. adapters for audio.. a Monitor.. then you'll need a red-rocket.. red-mag.. red-spaghetti maker.. red-meatballs.. (you get the idea)"

So, yep, from reading what you said again, I "get the idea" that you claimed you have to buy "crazy overpriced" RED accessories.
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RichDorato

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Nov 04, 2012 11:50 pm

Eric Santiago wrote:Just a reminder that the initial cost of a RED MX was not $4000.
We got ours at $29K years ago.
Last known value $17500.


Sorry, it's not sold at the price anymore. The RED One M-X is currently $4k, battle tested.
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Eric Santiago

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostMon Nov 05, 2012 12:51 am

RichDorato wrote:
Eric Santiago wrote:Just a reminder that the initial cost of a RED MX was not $4000.
We got ours at $29K years ago.
Last known value $17500.


Sorry, it's not sold at the price anymore. The RED One M-X is currently $4k, battle tested.


Haha I know that I was just trying to make sense as to why its being compared to a BMCC.
Jeez its like a used Ferrari vs a brand new Honda Accord Coupe :P
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Bill Rich

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostMon Nov 05, 2012 1:40 am

Wow.. RichDorado.. You pasted that together just to prove... well.. something I suppose.. good for you.
Go forth and conquer the world with your fancy RED camera..

Yikes.. I'm done with this thread.. Good luck all.
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Seaborn

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostMon Nov 05, 2012 1:51 am

i asked myself about the same point...
here my answer:
red 4000$------------------bmc 3000$
iclude some stuff------------include resolve 9
10lbs body only-------------3lbs body only
red station 195$------------100$ sate thunderbolt
red power pack 1450$-------300$ sony charger and 2 battery
ssd module 1500$----------built in
64gb red 750$-------------ssd drive 500$ 250gb
monitor needs +-1000$-----built in but i own a small hd 1000$(will see)
pl mount-500$-------------canon mount include

i dont add rig because you can select the rig you want for any cam
so red power pack can probably be replaced by cheaper one (i dont know about it)

price just for shooting (aprox) :
red 8000 +power batt
bmc 4000

weight:
steady cam to use with red : $$$$$
steady cam to use with bmcc: 1500$

tripod, by my side i own a o'connor 10-30 and i'm really tired to put it on my shoulder...

of cours i know the comparaison is'nt fair
4k ram slowmotion capacity it's over bmc

but you get a old red battle tested... and in camera world i want buy fresh technologies...


my conclusion, for my needs, just the weight prevent me to buy a R1
i'll wait for bmc
tell me if you find someting wrong in my formule....
excuse my english...
Seaborn studio
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RichDorato

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostMon Nov 05, 2012 2:02 am

Hey Seaborn, there's actually a few things that come with the camera that you listed as an extra cost. There's also a few RED branded things that you don't have to use.

RED $4000------------------bmc 3000$
REDCineX------------include resolve 9
10lbs body only-------------3lbs body only
red station $195------------100$ sate thunderbolt
can use any brand v-lock or ab batteries/charger-------300$ sony charger and 2 battery
the ssd module is included----------built in
48gb mag $495-------------ssd drive 500$ 250gb
can use that small hd-----built in but i own a small hd 1000$(will see)
pl mount-500$-------------canon mount include

If your concern is weight though, BMC is the clear winner.
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Seaborn

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostMon Nov 05, 2012 2:19 am

thank for precision, i was'nt clear with the power stuff possibility...

i'm making documentary film, and i spent my 2 last year with a 25lbs rig (hvx-200, redrock m3, small hd, lectrosonic stereo receiver, firestore...) like a christmass tree...
i use to shoot with canon but the limitation of codec with uncontrolled environment it's too cheap.

so buying a bmc for that price give the better choice for my task.
and i can spend the difference price between an ready to shoot red and bmc in bether lens.

finger crossed for some firmware update( slow motion, vu on screen...2k prores)
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Joe Gonzalez

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostMon Nov 05, 2012 2:50 am

RichDorato wrote:Hey Seaborn, there's actually a few things that come with the camera that you listed as an extra cost. There's also a few RED branded things that you don't have to use.

RED $4000------------------bmc 3000$
REDCineX------------include resolve 9
10lbs body only-------------3lbs body only
red station $195------------100$ sate thunderbolt
can use any brand v-lock or ab batteries/charger-------300$ sony charger and 2 battery
the ssd module is included----------built in
48gb mag $495-------------ssd drive 500$ 250gb
can use that small hd-----built in but i own a small hd 1000$(will see)
pl mount-500$-------------canon mount include

If your concern is weight though, BMC is the clear winner.


Hey Richard so it looks price aside for just the camera, the basic working accessories are about 1000 bucks for each. RED ONE doesn't look that bad. Whats your take on it.
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RichDorato

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostMon Nov 05, 2012 3:27 am

The RED One is a very different camera, 4.5k res, super 35 sensor, can shoot 120 fps in 2k, was used to shoot movies like the Social Network and Pirates of the Caribbean, and the post is a bit easier since R3D is a natively supported file format (has had a lot of time for adaptation/refinement).

The downside is, it's large, takes a while to boot up, it's at "end of life", so no hardware updates coming for it (RED have a new "Dragon" sensor coming out for Epic and Scarlet brains), and media is pricier (although file sizes are MUCH smaller than BMC's raw).

The BMC would be an better "run and gun", while the RED One is a proven "cinema" camera, that really requires more than the minimum accessories to start using it seriously, which you could pick up over time.

Depends on your shooting style. If you've seen any those movies, like Winter's Bone, The Informant, District 9, The Book of Eli, Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, then you know what the RED One M-X looks like.
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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostMon Nov 05, 2012 3:43 am

I'd be willing to make a bet that 80% of the people who bought a RED one have never shot with it before. Although the footage is great, it's also a huge pain in the ass. It's super big, heavy, and cumbersome. It's definitely a great camera to have in a studio but after shooting with it on location in average sized homes in philadelphia i wanted to pull my hair out. I have a feeling many people are going to realize its not a very practical camera for them. Some people just want to say that the own a RED camera.
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Joe Gonzalez

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostMon Nov 05, 2012 4:33 am

RichDorato wrote:The RED One is a very different camera, 4.5k res, super 35 sensor, can shoot 120 fps in 2k, was used to shoot movies like the Social Network and Pirates of the Caribbean, and the post is a bit easier since R3D is a natively supported file format (has had a lot of time for adaptation/refinement).

The downside is, it's large, takes a while to boot up, it's at "end of life", so no hardware updates coming for it (RED have a new "Dragon" sensor coming out for Epic and Scarlet brains), and media is pricier (although file sizes are MUCH smaller than BMC's raw).

The BMC would be an better "run and gun", while the RED One is a proven "cinema" camera, that really requires more than the minimum accessories to start using it seriously, which you could pick up over time.

Depends on your shooting style. If you've seen any those movies, like Winter's Bone, The Informant, District 9, The Book of Eli, Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, then you know what the RED One M-X looks like.


Thanks for a response Rich that i can understand. :D It seems that people are in an uproar that i would compare the two. I am pretty smart enough to understand the two different beast as cameras, but the pricing is what makes the difference . It doesn't matter what the REDONE can do more than the BMC. In the end , if its proven and only a bit more in price but still used for shooting features and commercials, i understand that. The REDONE has all the wish lists the BMC doesn't offer yet. 4k,. bigger sensor, 120fps in 2k, hdmi out , PL mount for my Voltander Lenses that i also have. This is a great time to be a filmmaker but also as a consumer a confused one also. :D
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Eric Santiago

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostMon Nov 05, 2012 4:38 am

Dave Dominguez wrote:I'd be willing to make a bet that 80% of the people who bought a RED one have never shot with it before. Although the footage is great, it's also a huge pain in the ass. It's super big, heavy, and cumbersome. It's definitely a great camera to have in a studio but after shooting with it on location in average sized homes in philadelphia i wanted to pull my hair out. I have a feeling many people are going to realize its not a very practical camera for them. Some people just want to say that the own a RED camera.


How can you make such a claim?
Honestly this thread has gone nuts with cocco puffs with comments like yours.
Man this recent RED drop in price didnt all of a sudden crop up a bunch of newbs.
So your claim of 80% is based on your lack of knowledge?
Do people just wake up one day and say..hey I know how to use this camera.

Seriously this BMCC wait is surely taking its toll on you :P
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Dave Dominguez

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostMon Nov 05, 2012 4:52 am

Eric Santiago wrote:
Dave Dominguez wrote:I'd be willing to make a bet that 80% of the people who bought a RED one have never shot with it before. Although the footage is great, it's also a huge pain in the ass. It's super big, heavy, and cumbersome. It's definitely a great camera to have in a studio but after shooting with it on location in average sized homes in philadelphia i wanted to pull my hair out. I have a feeling many people are going to realize its not a very practical camera for them. Some people just want to say that the own a RED camera.


How can you make such a claim?
Honestly this thread has gone nuts with cocco puffs with comments like yours.
Man this recent RED drop in price didnt all of a sudden crop up a bunch of newbs.
So your claim of 80% is based on your lack of knowledge?
Do people just wake up one day and say..hey I know how to use this camera.

Seriously this BMCC wait is surely taking its toll on you :P


calm down dood. How did you know i like coco puffs?
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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostMon Feb 04, 2013 10:10 am

Actually the BMCC upscales very nicely from 2.5K to 4K, given a good debayering algorithm. My guess is that when the BMCC starts flooding the market, a lot of RED shooters will desert the now outrageously overpriced RED "gems" as being a vast overkill for the kind of job they are 'actually' aiming at and opt for the BMCC, which can be lugged along in a rucksack, does not need a 4K USD fluid head, gives you enough headroom etc., etc. I am fully persuaded that the BMCC is good enough for producing theatrical footage for 4K production. The 1to 2 stops additional DR of Alexa would be nice to have, but the 13 stops of the BMCC is more than enough for most situation if you are a decent shooter. And who knows the BMCC sensor has perhaps more DR power and detail to reveal in the next firmware upgrade? There is also room for higher frame rates (50p, 60p?). I think actually the BMCC sensor has more in reserve, even before a superBMCC lands on the market. I think RED will dwindle or disappear from the RAW market unless the company readjusts dramatically its pricing, packaging and ergonomic philosophy to satisfy a growing demand for (rather) lightweight high DR and detail resolving cameras - but due to much hubris RED will probably dive or barely survive in their entrenched world. Sic transit gloria mundi.
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Jim DeLuca

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostTue Feb 05, 2013 4:33 am

This may be a silly question, but does the BMCC have the same amount of available Dynamic Range as the Red One MX? I was always happy shooting with the Red One MX, and if I can get equal or more DR from the BMCC I'd be even happier than I am right now.

I saw somewhere on this forum that the Red One MX had 11.9 stops of available DR? This seems somewhat lower than I expected.
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John Bauer

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostTue Feb 05, 2013 3:36 pm

the bmc does seem to have quite a bit more usable DR than the RED One.
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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSat Apr 05, 2014 8:59 pm

RED ONE M
-Nikon and PL-mount
-7" red display + red arm
-2x red brick battery + charger + batteryplate
-2x 320gb red drive + actionproducts raidrack
-2x RED 8gb CF cards
-red one shoulder mount
-AC-adapter
-RED pelican case
-cables
-19mm rods
= ~$9000

What do you think?
BMCC needs many accessories too.
Picture is the most important, weight etc. has no meaning to me.
Fiction, short films.
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Dustin Boswell

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSat Apr 05, 2014 9:34 pm

KFTC wrote:RED ONE M
-Nikon and PL-mount
-7" red display + red arm
-2x red brick battery + charger + batteryplate
-2x 320gb red drive + actionproducts raidrack
-2x RED 8gb CF cards
-red one shoulder mount
-AC-adapter
-RED pelican case
-cables
-19mm rods
= ~$9000

What do you think?
BMCC needs many accessories too.
Picture is the most important, weight etc. has no meaning to me.
Fiction, short films.


I'd say for the short film world a BMCC would be the better investment, as you'd have enough leftover for the other very important accessories like a Tripod & an Audio system.

The RED One is an excellent camera, but it's also a very complicated one that might not sit too well if your Camera team isn't familiar with it (especially if you are coming from the DSLR world). The other disadvantage is that it takes quite a bit of time to really get set up, just on the software settings since everything is buried in far more menus (which, gives more control) and takes a bit more time to setup (Time is Money).

In my Experience:
5 minutes to build the body and attach essential accessories.
1 minute to boot the camera up
3-5 minutes to format the media
3-5 minutes of resetting to default & then inputting all of your settings (you don't want to use the previous days settings even if they match)
10 minutes of black shading (You have to do this, and if you mess this up the camera will need professional help to fix. [Don't touch the camera while you are blackshading])
1 minute to reboot the camera
1 minute to roll a test clip and check your media with a DIT (Verifying that it is recording properly, sound and all)
Ready to get focus & shoot.

That being said, you also need a machine that can handle the R3D files that have to be transcoded unless you are using Premier (as Premier if I remember is the only NLE that natively runes R3D files, Transcoding takes quite a lot of time - especially if your machine isn't that great).

Will still need some color grading in post - Redcode is an excellent compression but it still takes ALOT of space (for shorts I recommend 2x2tb drives for a 10 minute runtime).

The form factor does come into play when shooting in a confined space (for example, inside of a vehicle), as well as what type of camera support you need (a RED one weighs about 20lbs built up, which means you need a more expensive tripod head & legs to hold it), and Shoulder rigging it will require that you give your camera operator a few breaks in between shots.

I'd also like to say that you would want one with the MX Upgraded Sensor, as the RED One standard sensors had a tendency to overheat (putting ice packs on a camera=not good).

The Advantage to the Blackmagic Camera's for the short film world is that they take no time to really set up:
3-5 minute camera build
2 minute drive format
3 minute of input settings & metadata.
Read to focus and shoot.

As well, their post workflow is much easier:
The RED goes Camera-->Red Cine X-->NLE-->DaVinci-->Protoools (for sound/music if available)

The blackmagics(RAW):Davinci Resolve-->NLE-->Roundtripped to DaVinci-->Protools
Blackmagic ProRes:NLE-->DaVinci-->Protools
Blackmagic DnXHD:Media Composer-->DaVinci-->Protools

That being said, I'd suggest you try out the RED first (shoot something small and simple if you can afford to) before you consider buying it.
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Dustin Boswell
Director/Writer and periodically Camera Department.
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Theodore Prentice

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Apr 06, 2014 4:04 pm

Jason R. Johnston wrote:
BMCC is new tech supported by a strong, stable company that provides solid, tested product and regular free firmware upgrades.


funny looking back on some of the stuff on this site
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Ulysses Paiva

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Re: BMCC vs RED ONE

PostSun Apr 06, 2014 8:31 pm

Theodore Prentice wrote:
Jason R. Johnston wrote:
BMCC is new tech supported by a strong, stable company that provides solid, tested product and regular free firmware upgrades.


funny looking back on some of the stuff on this site



+1

:D
Ulysses Paiva
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