Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

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Luke Armstrong

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostTue Nov 13, 2012 9:34 pm

mhood wrote:Again, the Internet changes the reseller's game. We know for a fact that several customers have received a BMC from B&H. Your customer representative is honesty challenged. :D


I called 5 retailers here in the UK today to see if anyone actually knew what was going on. All of them on BMD's approved list.

Three of them told me that they were still expecting a shipment by the end of this month, but had no date confirmed. The other two told me that they expect to receive units in December and January respectively.

Curiously, two of them told me that they would be the first to receive the cameras here when they arrive - which is clearly not the case. We know that CVP, Jigsaw and a couple of other larger sellers got big orders in first - and have already received a unit each of the five sent to Europe...
Luke Armstrong - Digital Compositor
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Cuboirs

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostTue Nov 13, 2012 10:28 pm

mhood wrote:Again, the Internet changes the reseller's game. We know for a fact that several customers have received a BMC from B&H. Your customer representative is honesty challenged. :D


How do you know those few that have received them are not from first original batch to calm everyone down and support the trickle idea!? We don't know
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Cuboirs

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostTue Nov 13, 2012 10:29 pm

It's too expensive on a company to ship out 1camera at a time ,I'd think they'd wait to ship 20+ at a time!
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AJ.infinite

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostTue Nov 13, 2012 10:38 pm

All shipments from dealers to us customers, begin with distribution company once BMD ships. Blackmagic design ships the cameras to a distribution company, and the the distribution sends to the dealers, and then the dealer ships to the end user.

Hope BMD lets us know what's up, so we can make more educated decisions on this moving forward.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostTue Nov 13, 2012 11:06 pm

The definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and expecting a different outcome. People keep asking BMD for timeframes/shipments expecting for them to do the right thing and divulge that information... they won't.
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Brian T

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostTue Nov 13, 2012 11:12 pm

I can confirm that Full Cumpass has received several camera which they have already shipped out.
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Ram Prakash

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostTue Nov 13, 2012 11:40 pm

Brian T wrote:I can confirm that Full Cumpass has received several camera which they have already shipped out.


Hi Brian,

I just called them and I was told that they did not recieve any shipments yet. They said the earliest they are expecting is Jan. Looks like even the resellers are giving out inconsistent answers :-)
Cheers!
Ram Prakash
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Ram Prakash

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostTue Nov 13, 2012 11:42 pm

Is my English correct with respect to days in a week?

Early Next week = Sunday thru Tuesday
Mid Next week = Wednesday or Thursday
Late Next week = Friday or Saturday

What happened to the early next week update?
Cheers!
Ram Prakash
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TimOlsen

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostTue Nov 13, 2012 11:54 pm

Brian T wrote:I can confirm that Full Cumpass has received several camera which they have already shipped out.


Hey Brian,

I had to jump on here and ask where you got the info to confirm that? I only ask cause I'm number 10 in line at Full Compass and have yet to see my camera. Last I heard, Full Compass had only received one unit, but shipped it to Los Angeles. I live just minutes away from their office and thought perhaps I'd get my camera quicker if I just chose to pick it up when it comes in, but....the waiting continues.
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Christian Schmeer

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 12:33 am

I really do hope BMD jumps in very soon to clear up what's going on :oops: A delivery date within the next few weeks would literally save my upcoming project.
Christian Schmeer - DP / Colourist
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Brian T

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 2:59 am

I have a sales associate I go through when I order from Full Compass. The info was from him.
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bhook

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 3:09 am

Cuboirs wrote:
mhood wrote:Again, the Internet changes the reseller's game. We know for a fact that several customers have received a BMC from B&H. Your customer representative is honesty challenged. :D


How do you know those few that have received them are not from first original batch to calm everyone down and support the trickle idea!? We don't know


I don't know that these cameras weren't harvested from a BMC tree. Do I need a sig disclaimer that proudly proclaims I am without a clue? Wouldn't you need one too?

:lol:
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dennysb

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 3:12 am

I placed an order (BMCC replacement) for RED on Sunday.

-I got contacted a person Monday AM to thank me for the order and provided me a sales rep "Bomb Squad" whom will be assigned to me.

-Got contacted on Monday PM by assigned person to say Hi and se if I had any questions on my order or anything else

-Got contacted by my sales rep on TUE to let me know that some of the items order might be shipping this week and she will get back to me as soon as they ship.

I am very aware I spending way more than the original BMCC plan, but I am feeling a little dizzy with all the attention I must say... 8-)
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galbach

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 3:19 am

Sean wrote:I just spoke with B&H, here's the transcript to our conversation. I know that SOME people have received them...

You have been connected to Chris H.
Chris H: Hello Sean. My name is Chris, and I will be glad to assist you. Please give me a few moments to begin working on your inquiry.
Sean : Hello, I ordered a black magic cinema camera back in July and I was wondering when I could expect to see it.
Chris H: Hi - We are all still waiting currently we do not have a Ship date from Black Magic at this time. Black Magic is still working on it.
Sean: Do you have any information about how many people ordered before me? Just trying to figure out how long I'll be waiting once they start shipping in volume
Chris H: The camera has not shipped at all yet. Only a few Bloggers have the camera now.
Sean: B&H has received no cameras yet?
Chris H: I'm sorry to say No - The Black Magic camera is not shipping to customers yet
Sean: :(
Sean: Okay. Thank you
Chris H: No Problem - We all have been waiting a long time.
Sean: Just out of curiosity, have a bunch of people pulled their pre-order due to the lack of information/long wait?
Chris H: I do not think so but it is something that some customers may choose to do if they acquire other camera models. This delay is sort of typical with Black Magic, But they at least want to ship a product that is working 100%
Chris H: Is there any other way I may help?
Sean: I think that's it.
Sean: Thank you for your time


I don't mean to start more rumors, just saying that no one (still) has anymore information. Boo.


That is not true.. I recd mine from b&h today!
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TimOlsen

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 3:28 am

Brian T wrote:I have a sales associate I go through when I order from Full Compass. The info was from him.


Looks like it's time to call my Full Compass sales associate! Maybe I moved up on the list...(one can hope)
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mastroiani

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 3:31 am

HELP! I need a BM Camera urgently! Life and death situation!

My granny and grandpa are in their late 70's They've been saving up some money for most of their lives and now the've decided to travel around the world. As a birthday gift they pre-ordered a BM Camera for me some time ago. I love them to death for it!

Anyway, about 2 months ago they went to Argentina, Brazil, Chile. Everything went well. Before going to Europe, they decided to visit some exotic place in South East Asia. By accident, they wound up in Pakistan , namely North Waziristan (one of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas). My grandparents are very nice and open people and like to talk to strangers. They are also very proud of me as an independent filmmaker (although I haven't really directed anything yet) so they like to talk to the world about their genius grandson. Incidentally, they mentioned my love for cameras and this new "magic" camera from Black Magic. Alas, as it turned there were some Taliban members around and they overheard my grandparents conversation with the family who were hosting them. Next day my grandparents were kidnapped... !!!

Yesterday, I received a message from them. Their captors demand one Blackmagic Camera in return for their release. It's absolutely crazy, but turns out the Taliban are also in need of RAW capability camera that has wide dynamic range (they need to be able to color correct the footage of their prisoners,etc) and is also affordable. BM Camera is one such camera that they have been coveting all along but couldn't get their hands on due to production delays.

Now, using this atrocious method of kidnapping they want to expedite the delivery of a camera to them, otherwise my grandparents will never see the light of the day again.

I love my grandparents to death (no pun intended) and I will do everything in my power to save them. I ask BMC to let me know any details they have on the ETA of the cameras so I can relay the information to the Taliban in hopes of delaying the execution of my grandparents. Obviously, it would be amazing if the BMC made an exception and sent me one camera they might have lying around so I can send it to the Taliban and save the lives of sweet, innocent seniors. Either way, BMC - PLEASE HELP!
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Dave Dominguez

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 3:41 am

i hate you galbach...
https://vimeo.com/daviddominguez
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Eric Santiago

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 4:42 am

Dave Dominguez wrote:i hate you galbach...


Dave say it with conviction.
Not enough spit and sweat in your words.
Channel Ricardo Montalban in Star Trek Wrath of Khan.
LOL!
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 6:57 am

Right... it's now end of day MID week in Melbourne, around 17:55 time be exact and still no update of the promised "early next week". BMD constantly let us down with lies. The Red One is looking mighty tempting right now.
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adamroberts

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 8:09 am

Costa wrote:The Red One is looking mighty tempting right now.


Off you go then. Good luck with that.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 8:22 am

adamroberts wrote:
Costa wrote:The Red One is looking mighty tempting right now.


Off you go then. Good luck with that.


Oh ok then thanks for the send off. You are a TOP guy. Wow isn't sarcasm GREAT!
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 10:15 am

Must be your Australian sense of humour Costa....
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Albert N. Romero

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 10:16 am

Costa wrote:Right... it's now end of day MID week in Melbourne, around 17:55 time be exact and still no update of the promised "early next week". BMD constantly let us down with lies. The Red One is looking mighty tempting right now.


I don´t know the meaning of EARLY in Australia, but for example, early in Spain is 11AM. Early in Germany is 5AM
If we take that to the week, could be Friday for Spain (late next week is probably in 15 days) and Monday for Germany.
Now, the point is to know where are the Australians positioned
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Felix Steinhardt

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 10:22 am

I´m afraid it didn´t work. If the new sensor glass had worked, they would have updated us by now. I think they´re still searching for the cause of the sensor blemishes.
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Abobakr M. Alshiblie

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 10:31 am

GOD DAMMMIT!!! I woke up today from a sleep where I mysteriously received mine!! Why did I even wake up?!! weird this shipping disaster thing started to be hunting my dreams!!
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 10:40 am

Andrew Deme wrote:Must be your Australian sense of humour Costa....


I'm British:)
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adamroberts

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 10:41 am

Costa wrote:
adamroberts wrote:
Costa wrote:The Red One is looking mighty tempting right now.


Off you go then. Good luck with that.


Oh ok then thanks for the send off. You are a TOP guy. Wow isn't sarcasm GREAT!


All you seem to do is bitch. If they had info for us they would share it. They have been sharing info as and when they have it all along. If making a camera was that easy don't you think there would be more options at this price point?

We are all eager to get our cameras. I pre-ordered back in April. Bitching all the time ain't gonna make it come any quicker... All it does is fills the forum with pointless posts (just like this one).

Go buy a Red One. Adding all the bits you need to get it working will cost you $7800 for a basic set-up. Then you have the workflow to deal with.

When the BMCC is ready and works as it should then BMD with ship it.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 10:42 am

Felix Steinhardt wrote:I´m afraid it didn´t work. If the new sensor glass had worked, they would have updated us by now. I think they´re still searching for the cause of the sensor blemishes.


If they can't find it by now I'm afraid there is no hope:(
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Marcel Beck

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 10:43 am

Abobakr wrote:GOD DAMMMIT!!! I woke up today from a sleep where I mysteriously received mine!! Why did I even wake up?!! weird this shipping disaster thing started to be hunting my dreams!!


Haha had that a while ago, woke up thinking it's with the rest of the gear, only to be disappointed... bummer


the wait continues....
Marcel Beck
Cinematographer & Producer
follow me: @mxbstudios
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 10:44 am

adamroberts wrote:
All you seem to do is bitch. If they had info for us they would share it. They have been sharing info as and when they have it all along. If making a camera was that easy don't you think there would be more options at this price point?

We are all eager to get our cameras. I pre-ordered back in April. Bitching all the time ain't gonna make it come any quicker... All it does is fills the forum with pointless posts (just like this one).

Go buy a Red One. Adding all the bits you need to get it working will cost you $7800 for a basic set-up. Then you have the workflow to deal with.

When the BMCC is ready and works as it should then BMD with ship it.


They said early next week. Update us saying they don't know yet, rather than leaving us hanging.... as usual.
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adamroberts

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 10:47 am

Costa wrote:They said early next week. Update us saying they don't know yet, rather than leaving us hanging.... as usual.


Take chill pill. Go shoot something, it's sunny on Mud Island today.

:-)
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 10:58 am

adamroberts wrote:
Costa wrote:They said early next week. Update us saying they don't know yet, rather than leaving us hanging.... as usual.


Take chill pill. Go shoot something, it's sunny on Mud Island today.

:-)


I will chill when I have the camera DAMN YOU! ;)
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adamroberts

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 11:01 am

Costa wrote:I will chill when I have the camera DAMN YOU! ;)


:-)

My Viewfactor cage has been chilling for months... ;-)
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 11:04 am

adamroberts wrote:
Costa wrote:I will chill when I have the camera DAMN YOU! ;)


:-)

My Viewfactor cage has been chilling for months... ;-)


Wow you were brave enough to buy peripherals.. I won't do that until I have the camera in my hands! My money can accumulate interest in the bank until then:)
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taapo

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 11:59 am

Costa wrote:They said early next week. Update us saying they don't know yet, rather than leaving us hanging.... as usual.


I put you on my foes list, but too bad I still get to hear your whining through quotes of other - more patient - users. Why do you keep polluting every thread you enter? Educational sector should be the next sector they cut funding on, if all people working in that sector are like you. Damn, I wouldn't want to live with/next/above you ... the constant whirring of your whining on the background would drive me crazy.
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Soeren Mueller

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 12:13 pm

taapo wrote:the constant whirring of your whining on the background would drive me crazy.


lol!.. damnit now i have to clean my keyboard again... :twisted:
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bhook

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 12:17 pm

Yea!!! This is all Costa's fault!!! Dog pile on the Costa!!! :P
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 12:40 pm

taapo wrote:
Costa wrote:They said early next week. Update us saying they don't know yet, rather than leaving us hanging.... as usual.


I put you on my foes list, but too bad I still get to hear your whining through quotes of other - more patient - users. Why do you keep polluting every thread you enter? Educational sector should be the next sector they cut funding on, if all people working in that sector are like you. Damn, I wouldn't want to live with/next/above you ... the constant whirring of your whining on the background would drive me crazy.


You are such a polite young man... ignoring people doesn't make them go away. Finding educated democratic ways of changing their opinions and/or minds does. Thank you for putting me on your ignore list I appreciate not having to reply to your immature comments, like your comment about cutting funding to educate our kids... well played on that bit of ignorance. So because I annoy you, you would rather other people suffer for it? Kudos to you. I don't think I have had so much disdain for a fellow human being in my life and I have met some real bullies in my time...

Edit - oh and btw we do not get public funding for our video content.
Last edited by Costa Louvieris on Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:46 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 12:42 pm

mhood wrote:Yea!!! This is all Costa's fault!!! Dog pile on the Costa!!! :P


lol - it's like we can't have "opinions" anymore...
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Jesuan Soriano

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 1:45 pm

I don't want to start a fight...just have some fun...
but toopa has 7 posts in this forum and I think 6 of them are related to Costa. I see love in there. (i'm pretty sure he deseves them)

So...I hope Grand Petty updates soon or this will become a war. :D

I hate they say early next morning and they say nothing. At least they should update with

"hey guys, we have nothing new to say , sorry.

Grand Petty"

and we'll be happy.

Jesus
Jesus Soriano
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Costa Louvieris

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 1:51 pm

Jesuan wrote:I don't want to start a fight...just have some fun...
but toopa has 7 posts in this forum and I think 6 of them are related to Costa. I see love in there. (i'm pretty sure he deseves them)

So...I hope Grand Petty updates soon or this will become a war. :D

I hate they say early next morning and they say nothing. At least they should update with

"hey guys, we have nothing new to say , sorry.

Grand Petty"

and we'll be happy.

Jesus


Which is what I said until I got abused for my troubles...
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Eric Santiago

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 2:47 pm

For the record, if you think the RED MX workflow is cumbersome, then enjoy the RAW workflow of whatever comes your way.
It is not an easy task.
With R3D, you can at least get first light right of their robust free software RCXPRO.
Does everyone here remember when JB uploaded the few albeit two digit files?
Can you imaging three of four digits?
I watched some of you folks online bitch and complain on getting things done on both Mac and PC.
Mind you it was more on the PC side.
Sure some of you already figured it out using CINEFORM but you had to learn a workflow right?
I for one would have forced the issue with RESOLVE, but some didnt have the resources to use that.
I feel for them, I know what its like to be crippled from a good workflow.
Now as far as working with sequential files, I know, I work in VFX and I have to deal with thousands of Maya sequential renders.
Now throw in your OS.
They are both going to give you fits in sequential RAWs.
OSX tends to pretend that it sees all the files whilst Windows 7 hums and haws for seconds sometimes minutes (yes in m world seconds is too long) for a refresh of directories.
With RED RAW, its a container in a folder and all you have to do is point at it.
Ive worked with R3D for almost 4 years now.
Man up and learn the workflow was my motto.
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Jeggintonfilms

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 4:05 pm

Update to follow in AM (Australian Time) which has different time zones for those of you that don't know.
Filmmaker & Camera-operator
www.jontyegginton.com
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Soeren Mueller

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 4:25 pm

Eric Santiago wrote:For the record, if you think the RED MX workflow is cumbersome...


Oh no please not BMCC vs RED.. aagaaaaaaaaain... aaaaaaaaahhhh... IT'S LIKE GROUNDHOG DAY IN HERE!
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Tom Sefton

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 5:50 pm

I'd love to be proved wrong, but I am hugely pessimistic about the chances of seeing the camera in the next 3 months. I can't see any way that they can be giving limited updates, admitting manufacturing problems, shipping hardly any cameras, and that somehow they will be able to start huge production runs.

I think that anyone who didn't pre-order in April or May is going to be waiting well into 2013, and those that receive it prior will be using something that still needs firmware updates.

I still want ours, but I have a definite line drawn in the sand after which we will cancel and wait for the next thing to come along or go RED.

It was very strange that Blackmagic did a live webstream in the UK today and didn't mention the camera AT ALL.

I'd love to be proved wrong though - my supplier in the UK has heard nothing from Blackmagic...
Tom Sefton
Owner
Pollen Studio
www.pollenstudio.co.uk
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Luke Armstrong

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 6:02 pm

Pollenstudio wrote:I'd love to be proved wrong, but I am hugely pessimistic about the chances of seeing the camera in the next 3 months. I can't see any way that they can be giving limited updates, admitting manufacturing problems, shipping hardly any cameras, and that somehow they will be able to start huge production runs.

I think that anyone who didn't pre-order in April or May is going to be waiting well into 2013, and those that receive it prior will be using something that still needs firmware updates.

I still want ours, but I have a definite line drawn in the sand after which we will cancel and wait for the next thing to come along or go RED.

It was very strange that Blackmagic did a live webstream in the UK today and didn't mention the camera AT ALL.

I'd love to be proved wrong though - my supplier in the UK has heard nothing from Blackmagic...


That's my concern too. My 'line in the sand' is January 1.
Luke Armstrong - Digital Compositor
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4274789/
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Ryan Best

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 6:06 pm

Pollenstudio wrote:I'd love to be proved wrong, but I am hugely pessimistic about the chances of seeing the camera in the next 3 months. I can't see any way that they can be giving limited updates, admitting manufacturing problems, shipping hardly any cameras, and that somehow they will be able to start huge production runs.

I think that anyone who didn't pre-order in April or May is going to be waiting well into 2013, and those that receive it prior will be using something that still needs firmware updates.

I still want ours, but I have a definite line drawn in the sand after which we will cancel and wait for the next thing to come along or go RED.

It was very strange that Blackmagic did a live webstream in the UK today and didn't mention the camera AT ALL.

I'd love to be proved wrong though - my supplier in the UK has heard nothing from Blackmagic...



All we can hope is that the next update is positive and gives us all a strong indication when we can expect to see our BMCC's - For all those who maybe unaware CHRISTINE has said in the 'To Christine' post - AN UPDATE IS DUE IN THE 'AM' (Australian Time)
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Tom Sefton

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 6:19 pm

Yeah I saw that Ryan, but I am putting my Mystic Meg hat on and predicting that the update that comes will include some techno speak, followed by a possible solution, followed by a possible timescale, followed by a promise of another update some time next week.

The cold hard fact is that if they had good news, we would have had it already.
Tom Sefton
Owner
Pollen Studio
www.pollenstudio.co.uk
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Ryan Best

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 6:43 pm

Pollenstudio wrote:Yeah I saw that Ryan, but I am putting my Mystic Meg hat on and predicting that the update that comes will include some techno speak, followed by a possible solution, followed by a possible timescale, followed by a promise of another update some time next week.

The cold hard fact is that if they had good news, we would have had it already.


To be honest - deep down - I probably agree with you - I'm just hoping they step up to the plate on this - I've sensed a difference in attitude towards this product even within my own circle (9 paid pre-orders between us) - people are starting to look at alternatives, which is to be expected given the vague info we have surrounding pre-orders - some are not blessed with the funds to own several different camera systems, many have sold their existing units in order to make this purchase.

Unfortunately I think this next update is becoming more & more critical for some of the guys on these 'unregulated' waiting lists.
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David form BMCUSER

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Re: Camera Shipping Update: 11/7

PostWed Nov 14, 2012 6:57 pm

Pollenstudio wrote:Yeah I saw that Ryan, but I am putting my Mystic Meg hat on and predicting that the update that comes will include some techno speak, followed by a possible solution, followed by a possible timescale, followed by a promise of another update some time next week.

The cold hard fact is that if they had good news, we would have had it already.


I am not 100% sure it's fact as I am ever hopeful (dumb) that we'll get good news but one thing I am sure about is that it's cold, hard, and we're getting it up the ___.
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